NBA Trade Deadline - Buyout Season Thread

Auger34

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I am sorry the trade deadline is affecting you so much. If it makes you better, Aaron Gordon + Fournier isn't likely enough to get the C's a banner this year. And for all of the Gordon talk, he is a decent player and nothing more. He is additive but not a difference maker. The Celtics not paying up for what he brings is probably to their benefit long term.
Your concern seems like it might not be genuine but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and accept that it is..

Gordon could fill the role that Hayward had to a decent degree and seems to be a very good fit with the Jays. They definitely wouldn’t be the favorites to win it all but I think it would make them into at least a solid contender.
And with the price that the Nuggets paid was very low. Harris, Hampton and a protected 2025 1st. That’s the equivalent of Thompson, Nesmith and a 1st. That’s not exactly putting a huge dent into the future (and I like Nesmith more than most). Late 1st round picks rarely amount to anything so I am not that worried about giving that up
 

PedroKsBambino

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We, including me, are assuming Orlando chose this over a Boston package. if so, they either had a crazy high eval of Hampton or a crazy high eval of Harris.

A different possibility is Celtics pulled out and are doing something else---Nance, Collins, or something we haven't thought of, leaving Denver with best offer on table.

That's probably not what happeend but just noting it.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Your concern seems like it might not be genuine but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and accept that it is..

Gordon could fill the role that Hayward had to a decent degree and seems to be a very good fit with the Jays. They definitely wouldn’t be the favorites to win it all but I think it would make them into at least a solid contender.
And with the price that the Nuggets paid was very low. Harris, Hampton and a protected 2025 1st. That’s the equivalent of Thompson, Nesmith and a 1st. That’s not exactly putting a huge dent into the future (and I like Nesmith more than most). Late 1st round picks rarely amount to anything so I am not that worried about giving that up
You wrote that you were "very, very dismayed" at the Celtics failing to obtain Aaron Gordon. I am being 100% genuine that I feel that your dismay is misplaced. He would have helped a bit. Nothing more - banner 18 did not go to Denver along with him imo.
 

lovegtm

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We, including me, are assuming Orlando chose this over a Boston package. if so, they either had a crazy high eval of Hampton or a crazy high eval of Harris.

A different possibility is Celtics pulled out and are doing something else---Nance, Collins, or something we haven't thought of, leaving Denver with best offer on table.

That's probably not what happeend but just noting it.
Probably not what's happening, but agree that the final haul for Gordon seems really low relative to what people were expecting.
 

Dduncan6er

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Your concern seems like it might not be genuine but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here and accept that it is..

Gordon could fill the role that Hayward had to a decent degree and seems to be a very good fit with the Jays. They definitely wouldn’t be the favorites to win it all but I think it would make them into at least a solid contender.
And with the price that the Nuggets paid was very low. Harris, Hampton and a protected 2025 1st. That’s the equivalent of Thompson, Nesmith and a 1st. That’s not exactly putting a huge dent into the future (and I like Nesmith more than most). Late 1st round picks rarely amount to anything so I am not that worried about giving that up
I'm not sure I agree with this. Fournier is actually a much better fit to fill at least part of Hayward's role. Fournier can facilitate the offense a bit and is a much better shooter than Gordon. Gordon might be a better all around player when factoring in the defensive side of the floor but Fournier is closer to a Hayward replacement.
 

Cellar-Door

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We, including me, are assuming Orlando chose this over a Boston package. if so, they either had a crazy high eval of Hampton or a crazy high eval of Harris.

A different possibility is Celtics pulled out and are doing something else---Nance, Collins, or something we haven't thought of, leaving Denver with best offer on table.

That's probably not what happeend but just noting it.
I don't think valuing Hampton over Nesmith is unreasonable, if Hampton had gone 14 in the draft nobody would have blinked, they were part of the same general tier.
It does tell me they see Harris as a positive (which I'm surprised by). My guess is once the Celtics said no to including Marcus, they decided they'd rather have Harris than salary filler.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I don't think valuing Hampton over Nesmith is unreasonable, if Hampton had gone 14 in the draft nobody would have blinked, they were part of the same general tier.
It does tell me they see Harris as a positive (which I'm surprised by). My guess is once the Celtics said no to including Marcus, they decided they'd rather have Harris than salary filler.
It's taking Harris' negative value deal that makes it hard. I agree you could value Hampton over Nesmith---but the rest of the package from Celtics is still pretty clearly superior.
 

Auger34

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I'm not sure I agree with this. Fournier is actually a much better fit to fill at least part of Hayward's role. Fournier can facilitate the offense a bit and is a much better shooter than Gordon. Gordon might be a better all around player when factoring in the defensive side of the floor but Fournier is closer to a Hayward replacement.
Kind of agree and kind of disagree....Gordon is definitely a worse shooter than Hayward (and Fournier) but his playmaking and defensive switchability are both better than Fournier (and closer to what Hayward provided).
It’s kind of splitting hairs honestly
 

Cesar Crespo

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We still really need someone who can play the 4, I think. We basically replaced Teague with Fournier (which is an upgrade), but we don't have a Semi upgrade yet.
Fournier is the Semi/GWill upgrade. I doubt Fournier will eat all that much into Teague's minutes, especially given Teague and PP's recent play.

Evan may also be the death of the 2 big lineup.
 

Cellar-Door

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It's taking Harris' negative value deal that makes it hard. I agree you could value Hampton over Nesmith---but the rest of the package from Celtics is still pretty clearly superior.
I think the point is.... ORL doesn't think HArris is a negative. I don't see any way the Celtics package (1st, Nesmith, filler) is better than DEN's unless (like me) you thought Harris was a negative. If ORL sees him as a positive (which they seem to) then that is a better deal.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think the point is.... ORL doesn't think HArris is a negative. I don't see any way the Celtics package (1st, Nesmith, filler) is better than DEN's unless (like me) you thought Harris was a negative. If ORL sees him as a positive (which they seem to) then that is a better deal.
Or they don't care at all about what Harris makes next year because they are well under the cap, don't plan on competing and without him they'd be below the salary cap floor.

Plus it's just 1 year.
 

Auger34

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It's taking Harris' negative value deal that makes it hard. I agree you could value Hampton over Nesmith---but the rest of the package from Celtics is still pretty clearly superior.
Exactly. Gary Harris has been pretty widely viewed as a negative asset. He seems to be getting worse and is always dealing with injuries. He’s also making 20 million a year and is not an expiring. Maybe if he was viewed as some sort of locker room leader I could understand it more but (from what I’ve read) he’s a pretty quiet guy so it’s not that. I think Thompson is, almost unequivocally, a better asset than Harris

Hampton and Nesmith are basically the same. I could understand the Magic liking Hampton more but I doubt it would be a situation where they liked him MUCH more.


The pick is in 2025 and has protections...it’s likely to be in the late 20s.

Unless the Magic have some very odd talent evaluations, it does seem like the Celtics may have turned their attention to another player in the last 24 hours....or they were never offering a 1st round pick in the first place (which I doubt)

EDIT: Just thought of another thing that makes this package even weirder/more undesirable to the Magic. They just had a chance to take Hampton in this draft...but instead chose Cole Anthony, who plays the exact same position as RJ Hampton. They also have Markelle Fultz locked up, who is almost a carbon copy of RJ Hampton. (Worse shooter but Hampton is a pretty bad shooter himself)
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think the point is.... ORL doesn't think HArris is a negative. I don't see any way the Celtics package (1st, Nesmith, filler) is better than DEN's unless (like me) you thought Harris was a negative. If ORL sees him as a positive (which they seem to) then that is a better deal.
That's why I said initially the only two ways the deal happens is a crazy high Hampton assessment (justifying taking on Harris) or a high Harris assessmesnt. You're just reinforcing my original point.
 

Cellar-Door

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Exactly. Gary Harris has been pretty widely viewed as a negative asset. He seems to be getting worse and is always dealing with injuries. He’s also making 20 million a year and is not an expiring. Maybe if he was viewed as some sort of locker room leader I could understand it more but (from what I’ve read) he’s a pretty quiet guy so it’s not that. I think Thompson is, almost unequivocally, a better asset than Harris

Hampton and Nesmith are basically the same. I could understand the Magic liking Hampton more but I doubt it would be a situation where they liked him MUCH more.


The pick is in 2025 and has protections...it’s likely to be in the late 20s.

Unless the Magic have some very odd talent evaluations, it does seem like the Celtics may have turned their attention to another player in the last 24 hours....or they were never offering a 1st round pick in the first place (which I doubt)
I think the balance of their deals today indicates that they do have some talent evaluations that are quite different from fan consensus. I have no doubt the Celtics offered a 1st, a young guy like Nesmith and filler. I also think ORL is high on Hampton (I think that was the rumor at draft time) and has a different view on Harris than others. Seeing the desire for Smart, then moving to Harris, sure seems like they wanted a veteran 2 out of this, which would make a lot of sense if they were keeping Vuc, but just seems weird now.
 

Auger34

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I think the balance of their deals today indicates that they do have some talent evaluations that are quite different from fan consensus. I have no doubt the Celtics offered a 1st, a young guy like Nesmith and filler. I also think ORL is high on Hampton (I think that was the rumor at draft time) and has a different view on Harris than others. Seeing the desire for Smart, then moving to Harris, sure seems like they wanted a veteran 2 out of this, which would make a lot of sense if they were keeping Vuc, but just seems weird now.
I think you replied before my edit but after looking at it more I think (for whatever reason) the Magic are very high on Gary Harris and (like you said) for some reason prioritized a veteran shooting guard. That prioritization makes less than zero sense but whatever.
I also stand by my original opinion that its an ass awful deal for the Magic and should be treated that way by more media
 

terrynever

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Auger34

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We, including me, are assuming Orlando chose this over a Boston package. if so, they either had a crazy high eval of Hampton or a crazy high eval of Harris.

A different possibility is Celtics pulled out and are doing something else---Nance, Collins, or something we haven't thought of, leaving Denver with best offer on table.

That's probably not what happeend but just noting it.
This tweet would align with your thinking that the Celtics may have started focusing on someone else (personally I am hoping it’s Nance)

View: https://twitter.com/basketballtalk/status/1375121588987789321
 

Cesar Crespo

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I always try to find a way for a Ball to Boston deal to make sense. I've assumed NO wouldn't really want Smart but I'm not sure that is true.

Would they actually do a Ball for Smart deal? Smart's signed for 1 more year while Ball you'll have to match. No idea what Ball gets.

If Pritchard and Ainge had a better working relationship, there is probably a 3 way deal to be made between Indiana, Atlanta and Boston.
 

benhogan

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The expiring sucks, but Ainge must have sensed he wouldn’t do better than that.
The fact that the C's could land EF for (2) 2nds is a decent indication of his free agency cost. They probably feel they can resign him this summer for similar money
 

Cesar Crespo

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My view is that we are very lucky to not end up with Gordon.
He's signed for one more year after this. If they really could have acquired him for a 1st with heavy protections, salary filler and a promising young player... I don't see how it ends up hurting the franchise much even if he's not a fit and walks after next year.
 

lovegtm

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He's signed for one more year after this. If they really could have acquired him for a 1st with heavy protections, salary filler and a promising young player... I don't see how it ends up hurting the franchise much even if he's not a fit and walks after next year.
I mostly agree, but there is a flipside. Fournier makes Smart more expendable from a depth perspective. The Celtics still have their 1st rounders, and 2021’s might even be decent.

They can match salary for a lot of guys with Smart+filler, so keeping the picks maintains a lot of options for acquiring someone good in a S&T.
 

nighthob

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Unless Orlando has some other plan for Harris that is a lot worse return than either Celtics recent 1st plus a future one. Frankly, that's a worse return than TT, Nesmith, a 1st and filler.

One possible explanation is they really like Hampton, I guess. But Harris is a negative value and that really hurts the deal.
As a first round pick is the usual toll for dumping a contract like Harris's they must really like Hampton to basically trade Gordon for him straight up.
 

BigSoxFan

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Is Oladipo really not going to get dealt? Only 30 minutes remaining. Seems like the remainder of the big names are probably staying put.
 

nighthob

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I think the point is.... ORL doesn't think HArris is a negative. I don't see any way the Celtics package (1st, Nesmith, filler) is better than DEN's unless (like me) you thought Harris was a negative. If ORL sees him as a positive (which they seem to) then that is a better deal.
They did just deal their starting C for yet another C despite still having 17 PFs and Cs on their roster. They're not exactly famous for their talent evaluation.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is Oladipo really not going to get dealt? Only 30 minutes remaining. Seems like the remainder of the big names are probably staying put.
Thing about him is... nobody wants to pay him what he thinks he's worth in FA, so nobody wants to rent him given his not great performances this year. HOU probably holds him until the Summer and either re-signs or tries to S&T once he realizes his expectations of his market are unreasonable.
 

BigSoxFan

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Thing about him is... nobody wants to pay him what he thinks he's worth in FA, so nobody wants to rent him given his not great performances this year. HOU probably holds him until the Summer and either re-signs or tries to S&T once he realizes his expectations of his market are unreasonable.
Yeah, I guess, like Aldridge, tough to match salaries for him too.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Totally missed the Powell trade too. How much is he going to sign for next season? I'm not sure how Portland can afford to keep him long term.

Trent's going to get paid too though and I'd much, much, much prefer Powell.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Kevin Smith just tweeted the C's are still engaged in deals but only to dump some fodder to get under the luxury tax.

edit: Keith.