NBA Playoffs Round Two Game Thread
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Doc is ranting pissed and he's completely justified. The officials told him they didn't have the angle, despite it being shown in the arena. That is laughable.
scottyno said:
And they traded him and got an asset in return. Things changed...and in the process, both sides got closer to their goals. I really cannot believe that any true Celtics fan can dislike Doc Rivers after he brought another banner to the rafters. I am a fan of his for life - he is all class. Bill Simmons and others can forget what he did for the C's but I never will.
Things is, I don't think they blew the call per se. It was clear from the replay that the ball was off OKC. It was also clear that the ball was lost due to a Barnes foul that they neglected to call. It had to be a make up call. Of course they can't fess up to it because they have no authority to do that when reviewing an out of bounds/possession play.soxhop411 said:
I was a big critic of Doc during his tenure in Boston but he is a damn good coach. We'd be lucky if Stevens is half the coach Doc is.
NWsoxophile said:
And Chuck, who spews a lot of garbage, made this same point. The refs were wrong in missing the original call and then granting the ball to the Thunder after the fact. But that is what they did...
Statman said:
Unfortunately, we will probably never know because Stevens is extremely unlikely to have the privilege to coach three no-brainer Hall of Famers near their prime.
Shaq's lack of basketball knowledge and/or the ability to make coherent statements is always on full display during these segments. Unless he can criticize a big man or say "barbecue chicken" he's completely useless. TNT should can him and just bring Webber back to the studio.
bball831 said:
The sad thing is TNT is probably paying Shaq more than Kenny, C-Webb and Ernie combined.
Doc is justified in being angry. This call has now gone against him twice in these playoffs; once when the literal, by the book call was made, and once when the poetic justice version was made. It's hard to not get it either way.
What an abortion of an end, though. As a casual fan who doesn't care about either of these teams, I think the call that upsets me more than the one being discussed is the foul called on CP when Westbrook shot the three. He may have nicked his elbow (he probably did), but I hate to see such a stupid shot get rewarded like that (not to mention such a stupid player)
What an abortion of an end, though. As a casual fan who doesn't care about either of these teams, I think the call that upsets me more than the one being discussed is the foul called on CP when Westbrook shot the three. He may have nicked his elbow (he probably did), but I hate to see such a stupid shot get rewarded like that (not to mention such a stupid player)
Wow, the last two games in this series. The Westbrook/Paul matchup is the best PG matchup I can remember since maybe Magic/Isiah? Paul went into the hold the ball offense too early, an exceedingly rare tactical mistake for him.
The ball was clearly off Jackson, I don't think Barnes even touched the ball actually, but the fact of the matter is Barnes fouled him on the play. The refs saw that, and awarded the ball to OKC out of bounds. Is that the correct call? Under the current replay rules, it isn't. LA should have been awarded the ball. However, in the interest of fairness, I think the refs did the right thing in letting OKC retain possession of the ball. It gave OKC another chance, but it didn't really cost LA the game. What cost LA the game was Chris Paul fouling Westbrook on a three point attempt. That was a clear foul because A) While we didn't get the best camera angle, it looked like Westbrook's shooting arm was touched before he released the shot B) The referee was in perfect position to make the call and immediately made the call before the ball had even left Westbrook's fingertips and C) The trajectory of the shot strongly suggests that it was altered by a foul.
The Clippers can cry all they want, but they didn't lose this game because of the refs, they lost this game because while OKC was getting big baskets and forcing steals, the clippers were fouling and turning the ball over.
For the Westbrook haters, I understand the issues with his game, but the guy has grown on me. Nobody in the NBA looks like they are having as much fun playing basketball as Russell Westbrook.
The Clippers can cry all they want, but they didn't lose this game because of the refs, they lost this game because while OKC was getting big baskets and forcing steals, the clippers were fouling and turning the ball over.
For the Westbrook haters, I understand the issues with his game, but the guy has grown on me. Nobody in the NBA looks like they are having as much fun playing basketball as Russell Westbrook.
Kliq said:
This has been a problem with the rule all year, though, since officials have long given the ball out of bounds to the team who last touched it as an intermediary call between the foul and the turnover. I actually mentioned it to my friend a few days ago as a major problem with the current replay system, but that's by far the highest profile one so far, and they've been calling it the other (admittedly unfair) way all year. I am sure something will change before next season, but they should have changed it already so this wouldn't have been an issue.
I'm with you on this. It's sad that Doc's time here isn't/wasn't appreciated more for holding that group together. Very few coaches could ever contain that locker room and those massive massive egos and I'm one to give very little credit to the head coach as its a players league.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Plus why are Celtics fans complaining....without Doc leaving we wouldn't have Boy Wonder. <sarcasm>
Rivers is a great coach but one of his flaws has always been his ability, at critical times, to get his team to focus. This was especially evident down the stretch last night where the Clippers' players were still griping at the refs during play. It happened most clearly, as previously noted, during the Paul foul on the 3-point shot. Rivers complaining to the extent that he did after the game is another example. Imagine BB or Tito doing the same. Heck, one of the biggest reasons the Sox won the WS last year is that Farrell after the controversial ending to game 3 turned the page as fast as possible, telling the team the umps ultimately got the call right. The team could then simply move ahead focused on winning game 4. It's also one of the things that has struck me as odd about the Sterling situation. It's time for Rivers to stop talking about it until the end of the playoffs.
DrewDawg said:
Actually it turns out the refs were exactly right on this call. TNT showed the rule last night on the postgame, which says that if the defender hits the hand and that causes the ball to go out of bounds, the ball still belongs to the team that was in possession even if they touched it last.
Does it matter that Barnes didn't hit that hand? Honest question. Put the foul aside, which everyone should agree doesn't matter for replay purposes.
Also, that's an ex post facto justification for the decision there. The refs' stated reason in their statement was that the replay was "inconclusive," which it plainly is not.
Also, that's an ex post facto justification for the decision there. The refs' stated reason in their statement was that the replay was "inconclusive," which it plainly is not.
Every replay I've seen pretty clearly shows Barnes hitting Jackson's left hand. Jackson's right hand seems to make last contact so the rule does not appear to address that situation.TheGazelle said:
Charles and Kenny were right on that CP should have fouled Ibaka immediately when he lost the ball on the last play. The replay showed that CP did make contact with Ibaka too but obviously the refs did not see it. That would've at least given the Clippers some kind of chance at a last shot.
According to Doc the officials said they were calling it off LA because they didn't have a conclusive angle to overturn, which is silly since they saw the angle we saw. If that's true they weren't making the call based on the rule TNT cited. In real time it was a make up call, the defender hitting the ball-hand rule was dug up after the fact.jon abbey said:
soxhop411 said:
*warning, rant coming
It seems to me that referees get wrong and/or miss about 5-10% of the calls in most games, or that there's 5-10 situations in every game that could arguably be called a different way.
And it may be that officiating an NBA game is just too difficult and even the best refs are only going to get 90-95% of the calls right or it may be something else.
But I've stopped watching except for a few Celtics games (and even then I have a hard time) because in close games I feel like referees have at least as much to do with the outcome of the game as the players do.
Reason I'm even in here is because this caught my eye and it seems like there's one of these every series:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2063066-did-referees-blow-pivotal-call-in-okc-thunder-la-clippers-game-5?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=cnn-sports-bin&hpt=hp_bn15
I know nobody really cares if I enjoy watching basketball or not, but I wish there was something that could be done - like add more officials - to reduce the number of errors that appear to happen.
*rant over
soxhop411 said:
The foul on Jackson hitting Paul was almost impossible to see going live, and since they can't review calls to see if they are a foul or not, I don't really see that argument for the Clippers. Besides, if you looked at every turnover in the NBA, chances are you could find a picture similar to this one detailing a foul.
ElUno20 said:
It's debatable whether he can influence the refs, but I'll accept that he can to a point. My problem wasn't that he criticized the officiating after the game. Rather, I thought he went way overboard saying his team was robbed of a victory by the refs and that replay should be thrown out altogether. Zero in on the blown calls if you want but don't blame the refs for your team's inability to close out OKC or to focus despite any questionable calls. Sometimes you're on the short end of the stick when it comes to officiating. Part of a coach's job is to accept that and move on quickly.
Just to nitpick, but no matter what you think of their performance down their stretch, if they were robbed, they would have won the game and you wouldn't be calling them chokers now.
All things being equal, you don't want the refs deciding the outcomes of the game.
All things being equal, you don't want the refs deciding the outcomes of the game.
Wade is hilarious. Livingston backs him down and gives him a good bump, which Wade being the large guy that he is absorbs just fine, gets the same bump again and catches air while falling several feet onto his backside. Such an obvious flop and gets the call. I'd like to see a rule change where after 1 warning players get charged with technical fouls for flopping. Sure it would be very subjective on the part of the officials, but it seems to me like the way the games are called is already pretty subjective.
Joe Johnson was lighting it up and the Nets went away from it and started running isos for Pierce and Livingston. That didn't work out.