NBA Offseason Thread 2016

Ed Hillel

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I think it means they'd have pieces to trade that would be attractive to OKC. Why would OKC trade him though? They would go from title contenders to a borderline lottery team if they lose both KD and Russ.
OKC will be a 6-8 seed in that conference and wallow in mediocrity for years even if he stayed. They should rebuild. The bigger question is should Ainge take the risk. If I was as confident as Grin he would re-sign, it seems like a no-brainer. A top 5 NBA player (borderline) at a max deal has far greater value than a top 5 pick, and that squad would instantly compete with Cleveland.
 

RedOctober3829

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OKC will be a 6-8 seed in that conference and wallow in mediocrity for years even if he stayed. They should rebuild. The bigger question is should Ainge take the risk. If I was as confident as Grin he would re-sign, it seems like a no-brainer. A top 5 NBA player (borderline) at a max deal has far greater value than a top 5 pick, and that squad would instantly compete with Cleveland.
The trade would have to be contingent upon an extension. I can't see him doing that and passing up a chance at a much higher contract next offseason.
 

Ed Hillel

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The trade would have to be contingent upon an extension. I can't see him doing that and passing up a chance at a much higher contract next offseason.
Is there any contractual way to do this? Can they contract to extend at a later date? It seems logical they could, but I can't think of an example of it happening.
 

DJnVa

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I can't see any way that Westbrook doesn't test FA. At all.

If there was something the Celtics know about extending him, then by all means, but I can't see that at all.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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From Zach Lowe's piece yesterday:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16766273/the-warriors-makings-all-super-team-addition-kevin-durant

"Any team (including the Thunder) with the requisite space can bump his 2016-17 salary up from $17.8 million to his new max, about $26.5 million, and tack on three more years from there with 4.5 percent annual raises. By signing an extension, Westbrook would forfeit free agency under next year's mega-cap, but the huge raise this season makes it closer to a wash than expected over the next four years."

That said, I suspect Westbrook gets to free agency like everybody else. But as I've said elsewhere, these deals don't happen in a vacuum. Ainge doesn't make the deal without knowledge from Westbrook's agent that he's staying in Boston longterm. The only example I can think of where that didn't happen involved Dwight Howard basically being run out of LA by Kobe.
 

luckiestman

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Wade to Cleveland seems like it's happening (nothing official yet) but I don't know if he has enough left to be a counter to the KD to GSW move.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Westbrook is not going to sign with Boston. No chance. He's going to the Lakers. Question is whether Buss is stupid enough to trade Ingram for him or just wait for FA.

The Celtics should just hold tight, let the two superpowers fight and be ready to compete in three years when Lebron is toast. Hopefully by then they will have drafted one or two impact players.

The Cs have as good a chance as anyone (along w philly and Minnesota) of being a title contender in 18-19.
 

zenter

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Cleveland would have to shed salary for a Wade signing. With Horford here, does that shut the door on any Kevin Love trade?
I don't think so. Horford is probably playing stretch 5 anyway. Love playing stretch 4 is a decent fit, and he's a guy who can help replace Sully's rebounding.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'd guess that if Wade goes to CLE, MIA will try to make it a S&T, and CLE may be best off doing that.
They're currently $26M over the cap. if they renounced JR it would be 16.5
Love makes a bit over 21 so trading him for no salary still only gets you $4.6M in cap, so unless Lebron and Wade both take big paycuts CLE is best off making it a S&T, sending something to MIA for salary match and staying over the cap letting them keep JR if they want.
 

RedOctober3829

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I don't think so. Horford is probably playing stretch 5 anyway. Love playing stretch 4 is a decent fit, and he's a guy who can help replace Sully's rebounding.
Trade Love for Crowder straight up? Would both sides be agreeable to this? If Cleveland renounces all cap holds including LBJ's they'd have just over $30 million in cap space for LBJ and Wade. This is according to Steve Kyler.
 

67YAZ

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Broussard floated that this morning. Man, that's a lot to give up for a guy you likely have a decent shot at signing next summer. Broussard also said Rose and Porzingas for Westbrook should be explored.

The conventional wisdom seems to be that Westbrook is going to LA or NY next summer.
Well, it's from Presti's perspective - start high, expect to be negotiating. But the ability to sign Westbrook to a max 5-year contract is a great benefit

And you're playing on Jim Buss staring at a Lakers' roster that lacks a bonafide star player. The last time that happened was maybe 1974-75, the year before Kareem arrived, when Gail Goodrich and Connie Hawkins, both in their declines, lead them to a 30-52 record.
 

E5 Yaz

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Trade Love for Crowder straight up? Would both sides be agreeable to this? If Cleveland renounces all cap holds including LBJ's they'd have just over $30 million in cap space for LBJ and Wade. This is according to Steve Kyler.
Doesn't Durant make GS even a harder eventual matchup for Love? If so, you'd think Cleveland would want to trade him. Now, whether they'd want to trade him to Boston is another matter
 

zenter

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Trade Love for Crowder straight up? Would both sides be agreeable to this? If Cleveland renounces all cap holds including LBJ's they'd have just over $30 million in cap space for LBJ and Wade. This is according to Steve Kyler.
I don't think the Cavs would be game, but I don't know if they could get more for Love right now. I know Crowder is a defensive anchor for the Cs and a fan favorite, but Love is a big offensive upgrade. Head says yes, heart says no. Ainge is less emotional than I am.

Doesn't Durant make GS even a harder eventual matchup for Love? If so, you'd think Cleveland would want to trade him. Now, whether they'd want to trade him to Boston is another matter
Yes, Cleveland needs to shore-up defense and Crowder can give Durant more problems than Love.
 

JCizzle

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How would he play with Horford anyways? Don't they have fairly similar skill sets?
 
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Is Love really a player better than Crowder at this point? I'm not too sure about that. Love is no longer an elite player, nor do I think he'll be a cornerstone of the next Celtic championship team, Crowder might be. Love is soft, Smart would eat him alive in practice.

I don't think Love will age well, hell I think his decline faze already showing.
 

amfox1

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I'd guess that if Wade goes to CLE, MIA will try to make it a S&T, and CLE may be best off doing that.
They're currently $26M over the cap. if they renounced JR it would be 16.5
Love makes a bit over 21 so trading him for no salary still only gets you $4.6M in cap, so unless Lebron and Wade both take big paycuts CLE is best off making it a S&T, sending something to MIA for salary match and staying over the cap letting them keep JR if they want.
Easiest sign-and-trade is Wade for Love straight up. Then, the Cavs can keep everyone else. Riley might want a sweetener thrown in, though, given his leverage.

Otherwise, Cavs could renounce D.Jones and JR Smith ($11mm total) and trade Shumpert ($9.7mm) and Love for draft picks ($21.1mm). That would put CLE approx $15.8mm under the cap. They could then sign Wade to a 1+1 for $15.8mm, with the "understanding" he would get maxed out next year.

Resulting roster:
PG - Irving, Felder, McRae
SG - Wade, Mo.Williams
SF - James, D.Jones
PF - Thompson, Frye, [min FA]
C - [FA signing for midlevel], Kaun

Cannot see the latter scenario working out for CLE.
 

zenter

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Easiest sign-and-trade is Wade for Love straight up. Then, the Cavs can keep everyone else. Riley might want a sweetener thrown in, though, given his leverage.
This is a classic "DA-as-facilitator" moment. If the widely-rumored "Ainge likes Love" is as true as I think it is and Wade legitimately wants to go to Cleveland (and would prefer to get paid).

MIA gets: picks
BOS gets: Love
CLE gets: Wade

Of course, assorted parts and 2nd-rd picks to make all sides happy.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

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Easiest sign-and-trade is Wade for Love straight up. Then, the Cavs can keep everyone else. Riley might want a sweetener thrown in, though, given his leverage.

Otherwise, Cavs could renounce D.Jones and JR Smith ($11mm total) and trade Shumpert ($9.7mm) and Love for draft picks ($21.1mm). That would put CLE approx $15.8mm under the cap. They could then sign Wade to a 1+1 for $15.8mm, with the "understanding" he would get maxed out next year.

Resulting roster:
PG - Irving, Felder, McRae
SG - Wade, Mo.Williams
SF - James, D.Jones
PF - Thompson, Frye, [min FA]
C - [FA signing for midlevel], Kaun

Cannot see the latter scenario working out for CLE.
I'm not sure I understand this from Cleveland's perspective. Trading Love for the right to max out Wade through his age 37 season? Love's value isn't super high, but it's higher than that. At least turn him into players that help you match up with Golden State.
 

Cellar-Door

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Easiest sign-and-trade is Wade for Love straight up. Then, the Cavs can keep everyone else. Riley might want a sweetener thrown in, though, given his leverage.

Otherwise, Cavs could renounce D.Jones and JR Smith ($11mm total) and trade Shumpert ($9.7mm) and Love for draft picks ($21.1mm). That would put CLE approx $15.8mm under the cap. They could then sign Wade to a 1+1 for $15.8mm, with the "understanding" he would get maxed out next year.

Resulting roster:
PG - Irving, Felder, McRae
SG - Wade, Mo.Williams
SF - James, D.Jones
PF - Thompson, Frye, [min FA]
C - [FA signing for midlevel], Kaun

Cannot see the latter scenario working out for CLE.
Riley doesn't have that kind of leverage, there are other places they can dump salary, just not as convenient. He's still getting a very good asset in Love, I'd assume it would be Miami who would be adding significant assets to get Love.
 

zenter

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I predict Wade signs with Cleveland for the MLE, than gets offered 50 million to appear in Space Jam 2
His main complaint is that he's never been paid his value... In part to sign other guys (eg, LeBron) for more money. Why would he then turn around and take MLE to play with LeBron?
 

amfox1

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Utah has an interesting team:

C - Gobert, Diaw
PF - Favors, Lyles, Bolomboy (R)
SF - Hayward, Johnson, Ingles, Prince (R)
SG - Hood, Burks
PG - Hill, Mack, Exum, Neto

and approx. $11.5mm in room under the cap.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Would be pretty nice if he did, in that Miami would be more likely to match Johnson's offer sheet.
 

CreedBratton

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Utah has an interesting team:

C - Gobert, Diaw
PF - Favors, Lyles, Bolomboy (R)
SF - Hayward, Johnson, Ingles, Prince (R)
SG - Hood, Burks
PG - Hill, Mack, Exum, Neto

and approx. $11.5mm in room under the cap.
Love what Utah is doing. They stay healthy they will win a playoff series at least. That's a pretty impressive bench if Exum bounces back from his tough injury. Of course i hope Hayward ruins it and comes to Boston next year tho.
 

boca

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Woj saying Wade's FA meetings are back on today. Meeting with Denver, Milwaukee and Chicago.
 

moondog80

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Denver is odd, but Wade to Chicago (where he is from) or Milwaukee (Marquette, close to Chicago) seem plausible.
 

RedOctober3829

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Denver is odd, but Wade to Chicago (where he is from) or Milwaukee (Marquette, close to Chicago) seem plausible.
The only reason he'd choose somewhere other than MIA or Cleveland is he wants one last money grab. The reason I think it will be Miami or Cleveland is either he gets the chance at one last ring with the Cavs at less money(not likely) or Miami finally ups their offer and he finishes his career with them as it should be.
 

zenter

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The only reason he'd choose somewhere other than MIA or Cleveland is he wants one last money grab.
Not the only reason.

If Zach Lowe is as plugged in as I think he is, Wade is all-but-on-the-record about the respect question. Specifically, he sacrificed salary (repeatedly) to allow Riley to build championship teams and chase stars. The implied (and possibly explicit) promise was he'd get paid appropriately later for being a good soldier.

Later is now.

He just saw his team open up the pocketbook for Whiteside without acknowledging him or his contribution. Indeed, they renounced his Bird rights, meaning there's no plan to pay him his value. They didn't just not pay him, they disrespected his sacrifice for them.

Think of Ray Allen - he left a lot of money on the table to leave a situation where he felt he was being disrespected by management and teammates, despite getting a lesser role on the Heat. Wade isn't Allen, but some of the same factors could very well be in play.
 

pjheff

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Why in hell would Wade go to Denver? He's not spending the last years of his career in that place. It's either Miami or Cleveland. Everything else is just noise.
One rumor down here in South Florida is that Wade would sign with Denver as a proxy for a trade already in place to Cleveland in December when a couple of their contracts can be moved.
 

DeadlySplitter

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how do GS fans feel about their team kinda turning into some mercenaries after a ring? I know Cleveland doesn't care.
 

amfox1

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Current cap space, per The Vertical (in $MM)

PHI 25.8, DEN 22.1, MIN 19.7, PHX 18.3

LAL 12.9, BRK 11.3, UTA 10.5, IND 9.4, SA 8.7, CHI 8.0, POR 7.2, DET 6.1, MIL 5.5, MEM 3.5, MIA 3.3

NYK 1.9, NO 1.6, ATL 1.4, WAS 1.3, GS 1.3, HOU 1.1, ORL 1.0, OKC 0.2

CLE -26.0, LAC -17.2, DAL -9.3, TOR -3.7, BOS -3.1, SAC -0.5, CHA -0.1
 

E5 Yaz

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One rumor down here in South Florida is that Wade would sign with Denver as a proxy for a trade already in place to Cleveland in December when a couple of their contracts can be moved.
I just want this to be true so the hot-takers can spontaneously combust trying to twist it into a noble act
 

RedOctober3829

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Current cap space, per The Vertical (in $MM)

PHI 25.8, DEN 22.1, MIN 19.7, PHX 18.3

LAL 12.9, BRK 11.3, UTA 10.5, IND 9.4, SA 8.7, CHI 8.0, POR 7.2, DET 6.1, MIL 5.5, MEM 3.5, MIA 3.3

NYK 1.9, NO 1.6, ATL 1.4, WAS 1.3, GS 1.3, HOU 1.1, ORL 1.0, OKC 0.2

CLE -26.0, LAC -17.2, DAL -9.3, TOR -3.7, BOS -3.1, SAC -0.5, CHA -0.1
They can create $17 million if they renounced Amir Johnson and Jonas Jerekbo. If Sully is indeed on the move, that adds the space up to $22.6 million. Renouncing Yabusele and Zizic bumps it up to $25.2 million.
 

E5 Yaz

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They can create $17 million if they renounced Amir Johnson and Jonas Jerekbo. If Sully is indeed on the move, that adds the space up to $22.6 million. Renouncing Yabusele and Zizic bumps it up to $25.2 million.
So you're saying ... Kevin Love?
 

JakeRae

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They can create $17 million if they renounced Amir Johnson and Jonas Jerekbo. If Sully is indeed on the move, that adds the space up to $22.6 million. Renouncing Yabusele and Zizic bumps it up to $25.2 million.
They are not renouncing two of their three first round picks from this year. That is insane.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The cap holds for Sullinger and Zeller alone add up to about $12mil, plus the AJ/JJ money. Yabusele and possibly Zizic are stashes anyway and won't count against the cap. Space isn't an issue right now.

Tomorrow is when the bill is due on guaranteeing AJ & JJ and when offer sheets can be signed so that will bring some clarity to everything.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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They can create $17 million if they renounced Amir Johnson and Jonas Jerekbo. If Sully is indeed on the move, that adds the space up to $22.6 million. Renouncing Yabusele and Zizic bumps it up to $25.2 million.
I believe it also includes cap holds of $6.5 for Zeller and $2.2M for Datome, at least according to this site http://www.spotrac.com/nba/boston-celtics/cap/

Edit: Jed got there
 

cheech13

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Why in hell would Wade go to Denver? He's not spending the last years of his career in that place. It's either Miami or Cleveland. Everything else is just noise.
I don't think he will go to Denver, but I think that's the most interesting place if he wants a second career act as a veteran leading a young core. They stunk last year, but they have good young players and the ability to trade for a disgruntled veteran superstar. It's not far fetched to see them as a top four team in the west with Wade and one additional piece.

If he stays in Miami, he's a mascot. If he goes to Chicago, he's making money and challenging for alpha dog status on a lousy team. In Cleveland he's just a mercenary. Honestly none of the fits make much sense. Probably why he'll end up back on the Heat.
 

67YAZ

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If he goes to Chicago, he's making money and challenging for alpha dog status on a lousy team.
Chicago is also his hometown. With Rose gone, Wade becomes the hometown hero (on a lousy team...).