NBA Offseason--and now INTO the season.

nighthob

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<Checks Brooklyn’s schedule>
Man, would Kyrie hang Kev out to dry against the Sixers like that?
<Checks Brooklyn’s injury report>
Oh, of course.

Seriously, how long before Nash begs the front office to move Irving for Harden?
 

lovegtm

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<Checks Brooklyn’s schedule>
Man, would Kyrie hang Kev out to dry against the Sixers like that?
<Checks Brooklyn’s injury report>
Oh, of course.

Seriously, how long before Nash begs the front office to move Irving for Harden?
No way Houston does that deal though.
 

NomarsFool

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With Kyrie's role in bringing Durant to Brooklyn, though, I'm not sure how likely it is that they deal him.
 

BigSoxFan

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Harden appears to be turning up the heat a little bit. Rockets appear committed to trading him but are looking for the following:

  • Young franchise cornerstone
  • Package of picks and/or intriguing talent on rookie deals

That would seemingly rule out Brooklyn for the time being. Celtics and Sixers have the assets but don't appear interested at all in dealing Brown or Simmons - and they probably shouldn't, especially Boston. Toronto doesn't really have the pieces since Siakam has seemingly plateaued and they're currently 2-8 so doubt Harden is good. Miami has Herro/Achiuwa that they could dangle, which isn't a great return but both players + an extensive pick package might be the best Houston can do here. Denver is currently 5-6 and has Murray/Porter Jr. to offer up so they remain an option. Golden State can offer Wiseman and picks but they don't seem inclined to deal either.

My 1/13/21 prediction is that Miami gets him for Herro/Achiuwa and a bunch of future 1sts. Herro falls short in the "cornerstone" department but he is a pretty good player who can be an important part of a rebuild.

 

Light-Tower-Power

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I'm off the Harden train. I still think the Celtics are missing a piece to be true contenders unless Kemba is completely 100%, but Harden is too much of a locker room problem. And he's fat.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm off the Harden train. I still think the Celtics are missing a piece to be true contenders unless Kemba is completely 100%, but Harden is too much of a locker room problem. And he's fat.
Yup. I was leading that charge for a bit but Jaylen is 100% off the table. If they want to discuss Harden for some combination of Kemba, Romeo, Time Lord, Nesmith, and picks, then sure, I'll listen. But that won't get it done.
 

nighthob

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Harden appears to be turning up the heat a little bit. Rockets appear committed to trading him but are looking for the following:

  • Young franchise cornerstone
  • Package of picks and/or intriguing talent on rookie deals

That would seemingly rule out Brooklyn for the time being. Celtics and Sixers have the assets but don't appear interested at all in dealing Brown or Simmons - and they probably shouldn't, especially Boston. Toronto doesn't really have the pieces since Siakam has seemingly plateaued and they're currently 2-8 so doubt Harden is good. Miami has Herro/Achiuwa that they could dangle, which isn't a great return but both players + an extensive pick package might be the best Houston can do here. Denver is currently 5-6 and has Murray/Porter Jr. to offer up so they remain an option. Golden State can offer Wiseman and picks but they don't seem inclined to deal either.

My 1/13/21 prediction is that Miami gets him for Herro/Achiuwa and a bunch of future 1sts. Herro falls short in the "cornerstone" department but he is a pretty good player who can be an important part of a rebuild.

Miami needs to trade for those future firsts as they don’t have them to deal themselves.

My own WAG is that the Knicks step in as they have all sorts of picks to deal.
 

BigSoxFan

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Miami needs to trade for those future firsts as they don’t have them to deal themselves.
Ah, good point. Forgot about that. That puts a big damper on their chances then since they don't really have anything to trade for a future 1st. Houston is going to have to drop their price considerably, IMO.
 

RedOctober3829

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Looks like it's either Nets or 76ers for James Harden trade and it may happen quickly.

Sources tell The Athletic the Rockets are sifting through offers on a potential James Harden from two teams — the Brooklyn Nets and Philadelphia 76ers — that could culminate quickly.

The Nets have prepared a package to Houston for Harden featuring all of their four future first-round picks and three future pick swaps, multiple sources said.

The Rockets have pursued a 76ers package centered on All-NBA star Ben Simmons, sources said. Boston and Toronto have also expressed interest at various points. Simmons, a two-time All-Star, has continued to grow his game on the defensive end of the floor. As far as star talent, the Rockets would be able to acquire a player in Simmons whose talent level may not be available elsewhere.

One player whom the Rockets and 76ers have discussed in potential packages is 2019 first-round pick Matisse Thybulle, with Houston having interest in the defensive-minded forward, sources said. The Rockets have had a steep asking price from all interested teams, and the threshold for Philadelphia — and other contenders — to give up one or multiple first-round picks with young assets is unclear.
 

BigSoxFan

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Looks like it's either Nets or 76ers for James Harden trade and it may happen quickly.



Ha, wow. So, Nets are pretty much prepared to give away their entire draft along with LeVert and others. Reading between the lines, that trade offer is basically a standing offer and Houston is trying to get Philly to bite on Simmons.
 

bakahump

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Does a Harden Embiid Sixers minus Simmon, Thybuille ++ and the next 5 years of drafts scare anyone? Maybe this year.....MAAAAYBE next year but after that?
 

shoelace

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Does a Harden Embiid Sixers minus Simmon, Thybuille ++ and the next 5 years of drafts scare anyone? Maybe this year.....MAAAAYBE next year but after that?
It depends on what other ancillary moves they can make to surround them, but I think Harden and Embiid could be extremely good together. Celtics/Sixers game threads will be full of rage when Embiid and Harden combine for 40 FTA.
 

benhogan

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It depends on what other ancillary moves they can make to surround them, but I think Harden and Embiid could be extremely good together. Celtics/Sixers game threads will be full of rage when Embiid and Harden combine for 40 FTA.
I'm buying stock in Pat's, have to believe he opts for the cheese whiz
 

BigSoxFan

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Has anyone watched much of Wall this year? If yes, how has he looked? I know his contract is huge but I would potentially be interested in a Wall for Kemba+ deal. Would probably need to add Romeo and maybe a pick.
 

ManicCompression

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Do the Nets have problems scoring? They're near the top of nearly every scoring metric, but 22nd defensively. Does swapping out Levert for Harden meaningfully changes those Metrics? I guess there's something to making every game an All-Star game, but I'm intrigued to see the experiment play out. Will KD and Kyrie be on board with Harden dribble the clock down to 5 on 25 possessions a game?
 

PedroKsBambino

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Based on nothing at all but speculation I wonder if Miami doesn’t jump back in late. Feels very Riley to me
 

nighthob

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Harden and Tucker for Simmons and Maxey is interesting. From the Philly perspective you have Harris/Tucker/Embiid as your frontcourt with lots of pick & roll options available to run with Harden. That's a team that would be a frontline contender for the next three years and probably beats the Lakers in the 2021 finals.
 

nighthob

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Based on nothing at all but speculation I wonder if Miami doesn’t jump back in late. Feels very Riley to me
With what? They still owe two first round picks, so the most they can offer is two firsts (in '25 and '27) along with Herro and Achiuwa. Even the Nets can beat that offer.
 

BigSoxFan

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Harden and Tucker for Simmons and Maxey is interesting. From the Philly perspective you have Harris/Tucker/Embiid as your frontcourt with lots of pick & roll options available to run with Harden. That's a team that would be a frontline contender for the next three years and probably beats the Lakers in the 2021 finals.
Feels like Philly would need a backup PG as part of this deal or a separate one. Harden obviously replaces Simmons on that front but not sure who runs the offense when he's out.
 

Cellar-Door

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Harden and Tucker for Simmons and Maxey is interesting. From the Philly perspective you have Harris/Tucker/Embiid as your frontcourt with lots of pick & roll options available to run with Harden. That's a team that would be a frontline contender for the next three years and probably beats the Lakers in the 2021 finals.
I do not agree at all with that part. Tucker looks toast and I don't believe in their depth at all.... also, I'd like to see Harden, Harris and Embiid in the playoffs before I consider them a real threat to win 4 series in a row.
 

nighthob

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Feels like Philly would need a backup PG as part of this deal or a separate one. Harden obviously replaces Simmons on that front but not sure who runs the offense when he's out.
I'm pretty sure that with Walker returning and 8mile's emergence that Jeff Teague is available for short coin.
 

nighthob

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I am shocked, shocked I tell you. I guess this means that the Nets suddenly have Irving available to use in a Harden trade? And the Nets should absolutely go for the Harden/Wall package to jump themselves to the front of the line. This assumes that the Knicks will give their 2021#1 (and filler) for Irving.
 

Cellar-Door

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I am shocked, shocked I tell you. I guess this means that the Nets suddenly have Irving available to use in a Harden trade? And the Nets should absolutely go for the Harden/Wall package to jump themselves to the front of the line. This assumes that the Knicks will give their 2021#1 (and filler) for Irving.
I think nobody is trading anything for Kyrie right now.
 

Cellar-Door

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Even a disgruntled Kyrie is a better return than the non-Simmons package or Herro and picks
What non-Simmons package? It seems pretty clear Simmons isn't the hold-up, it's how much they add to him.

And nah, Kyrie is worth nothing if you don't know if he'll show up. If you were going to be fine with a guy who may or may not show up, be disgruntled and be a general pain in the ass you'd just keep Harden.
 

nighthob

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Holdup appears to be Maxey. PHI wants to keep him, but has to find a way to get HOU picks to offset him.
Not sure how they do that, not seeing much on that roster that could be traded for a 1st.
Yeah, that's tough. Maxey's been better than I expected, but I trade him for Harden eight days a week.

Even a disgruntled Kyrie is a better return than the non-Simmons package or Herro and picks
Brooklyn would need to send him to a third third team. But Chicago for Porter and a first or New York for Randle and the Dallas firsts works.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I do not agree at all with that part. Tucker looks toast and I don't believe in their depth at all.... also, I'd like to see Harden, Harris and Embiid in the playoffs before I consider them a real threat to win 4 series in a row.
Yeah with Harden Harris Curry Milton as major rotation players, don't see how they hold up on defense. Also, I guess Harris goes back to standing a corner waiting to brick 3P attempts again.

I think Simmons / Maxey / picks is a really good deal for someone forcing his way out of town.
 

BigSoxFan

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Trading for a troubled star seems to have a bad skew assuming their current contract is close to or at market. It strikes me that the only teams that should be targeting these players are either clubs with a strong culture or rebuilding teams who want to jumpstart their ascent and can live with the drama a bit. The upside is rings, of course, but the downside is essentially the effective undoing of years of asset gathering and/or team building.
 

Cellar-Door

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Brooklyn would need to send him to a third third team. But Chicago for Porter and a first or New York for Randle and the Dallas firsts works.
Kyrie and THibs? Yeah I think Leon Rose is smart enough to not waste a 1st on that.
Especially when Randle is playing well.

I think there is a good case that Kyrie simply can't be traded. What team takes on a guy who just peaced out on his team and doesn't appear to have given them a good indication why or for how long?
 

nighthob

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And nah, Kyrie is worth nothing if you don't know if he'll show up. If you were going to be fine with a guy who may or may not show up, be disgruntled and be a general pain in the ass you'd just keep Harden.
I don't know, it is one way to ensue that you finish the season with the maximum chance of keeping your #1, and then dumping him on someone desperate over the summer.
 

lovegtm

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Trading for a troubled star seems to have a bad skew assuming their current contract is close to or at market. It strikes me that the only teams that should be targeting these players are either clubs with a strong culture or rebuilding teams who want to jumpstart their ascent and can live with the drama a bit. The upside is rings, of course, but the downside is essentially the effective undoing of years of asset gathering and/or team building.
Sixers: “The effective undoing of years of asset gathering and/or team building? Why yes, that is the inscription on our family crest...why do you ask?”
 

lovegtm

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Kyrie and THibs? Yeah I think Leon Rose is smart enough to not waste a 1st on that.
Especially when Randle is playing well.

I think there is a good case that Kyrie simply can't be traded. What team takes on a guy who just peaced out on his team and doesn't appear to have given them a good indication why or for how long?
After peacing out mentally on his prior team during a playoff series.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Harden and Embiid might eat Philly's buffets out of business. I'm more scared of him in Brooklyn, but the abject shitshow that is the Nets right now makes things a little less scary. It'd be a hell of a roster on paper, though.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sixers: “The effective undoing of years of asset gathering and/or team building? Why yes, that is the inscription on our family crest...why do you ask?”
Simmons+ for Harden+ has some logic given that both players have worn out their respective welcomes with the team/fans etc and given that they are both very valuable players whose fits are fairly specific (though I think people writing Simmons off 10 games into his fourth season after his peripherals have shown generally steady improvement are being a bit too premature with their takes). But a contending club should not go near Irving and I think many here would be wary of a young developing team going near him. The Nets are going to have to pay to make him go away if that is what comes to pass and its really unfortunate.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Would be hilarious if someone else or Brooklyn sneaks in and steals Harden because Philly won't give up a promising bench player.
On the one hand, yes, but on the other, I’m sure if it was the Celtics close to a trade and the holdup was, say, whether to include Pritchard as part of the deal, I’m sure many if not most here would want Danny to be pushing as hard as possible to keep him.
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory

NomarsFool

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It's unfortunate that Kyrie is such a headcase. He's got a lot of basketball talent, but he almost seems to be getting to the classification of mental illness at this point. Ordinarily, you'd have thought he'd make it through at least half a season in his new, self-chosen situation before flaking out (I don't really count last year - as it was quite the aberration). But, here we are, and he already doesn't get along with his coach and his self-chosen duo. Is there any situation where this guy can succeed?
 

BigSoxFan

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On the one hand, yes, but on the other, I’m sure if it was the Celtics close to a trade and the holdup was, say, whether to include Pritchard as part of the deal, I’m sure many if not most here would want Danny to be pushing as hard as possible to keep him.
Sure, but we're fans. The front office needs to execute the trade and I would drive 8Mile to the airport if it solidified landing a talent like Harden. Ultimately, Philly won't let Maxey kill the deal but Houston probably gives them an ultimatum to put up or shut up at some point.