NBA Grants Celtics $8.4 Million Disabled Player Exception

bosox79

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This does not compute Will Robinson.

Kanter makes $17.9M this year and a player option next season of $18.6M. He is the Knicks starting Center, they are not going to buy him out and our DPE isn't large enough to deal for.
If they were 8-30, they'd might. They are actually competing for a playoff spot though.
 

the moops

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If they were 8-30, they'd might. They are actually competing for a playoff spot though.
He is owed 36 million dollars. What # do you think they would buy him out at that he would accept? He isn't going to get 18.6 million on the free agent market next year, so unless he thinks the buyout + whatver someone signs him for this year > 36 million there is little chance of that happening.
 

bosox79

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He is owed 36 million dollars. What # do you think they would buy him out at that he would accept? He isn't going to get 18.6 million on the free agent market next year, so unless he thinks the buyout + whatver someone signs him for this year > 36 million there is little chance of that happening.
I missed the player option when I looked at his contract.
 

benhogan

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He is owed 36 million dollars. What # do you think they would buy him out at that he would accept? He isn't going to get 18.6 million on the free agent market next year, so unless he thinks the buyout + whatver someone signs him for this year > 36 million there is little chance of that happening.
I don't agree with your equation.

It should be:
this year's pro-rated salary + the buyout + whatever someone signs him for this year + whatever he can sign for as a FA next season > 36M

for example, if the Knicks were 10-31(and in full tank mode) at the midpoint of the season and they offered to buyout Kanter for the rest of this year's salary ($9M), Kanter may take that. If he believes he can get the Celtics $8.4M DPE + a 1yr deal for at least $11M next season (Amir's Philly deal). Kanter would be 26 and should command a better deal than Amir Johnson.

Enes may even get a multiple year deal at a much higher rate but Kanter would also be risking injury (and his player option)
 
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mcpickl

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I didn't say I didn't want to add him, just that there aren't minutes for him and that I don't want him at the full DPE at this moment in time. That could change in February. I think Kanter is a far better player than Monroe and someone you'd make minutes for and I'd spend the full DPE on him right now. I'm probably much lower on Monroe than others though.
I'd argue not only is Kanter not far better than Monroe, he's worse.

He's a sieve on defense, while Monroe is passable.
 

Manzivino

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If they want a Knicks center, they should be targeting Kyle O'Quinn. He'd fit perfectly into the front court rotation - great rebounder, good defensively, contributing positively on offense this season. He'd have to waive his player option but he's on an under market deal and he's going to be testing the market regardless. And it would be good to have his Bird Rights next year to make sure they can have one of him or Baynes moving forward.
 

DrewDawg

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I don't think it will keep up, but for now the Knicks are winning, so I doubt they do anything with O'Quinn.
 

bowiac

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I'd argue not only is Kanter not far better than Monroe, he's worse.

He's a sieve on defense, while Monroe is passable.
Yeah, I don't think Kanter is close to Monroe as a player overall, and is a worse fit for this team in particular. That's really what this comes down to.
 

bosox79

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I'd argue not only is Kanter not far better than Monroe, he's worse.

He's a sieve on defense, while Monroe is passable.
You wouldn't be acquiring either one for their defensive prowess, you'd be doing it for what they bring on the offensive end. With all the bricks Rozier and Smart put up, Kanter would get a ton of offensive rebounds and easy buckets. Monroe is the better passer of the two though.

I just think if defense was really a consideration, they wouldn't be considering either one. I would prefer Tyson Chandler over both.
 

bowiac

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I just think if defense was really a consideration, they wouldn't be considering either one. I would prefer Tyson Chandler over both.
This isn't how basketball works. Defense is always a consideration (so is offense!). This isn't baseball, where you can DH or even pinch hit with a guy. Guys need to play on both ends.

You can debate how bad Kanter is defensively really, whether his offense and fit makes up for that, but you can't just ignore the defensive impact that these guys have entirely. It all matters.
 

bosox79

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I could be underrating Monroe as a player too. I'm not a fan and he seems to be in decline from the little I've seen this year, which isn't much. He's only 27 so I'm probably wrong.
 

bosox79

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This isn't how basketball works. Defense is always a consideration (so is offense!). This isn't baseball, where you can DH or even pinch hit with a guy. Guys need to play on both ends.

You can debate how bad Kanter is defensively really, whether his offense and fit makes up for that, but you can't just ignore the defensive impact that these guys have entirely. It all matters.
Fair enough. I meant if it was a huge consideration or the main consideration. i think they both fit in pretty well for what the Celtics should be looking for in the 2nd unit, but that Kanter fits in better. Monroe probably fits in better with the 1st unit though as he's an underrated passer and I could see why that would move the needle in his favor.
 

the moops

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only makes sense if he's released and they can get him at the minimum.
And even then it makes little sense. I think they are going to go veteran route, someone who knows his way around, and can step in and play some minutes if necessary. Okafor is the opposite of that, and likely would get a minimum offer elsewhere, and somewhere he can play and not sit on the end of a bench
 

bosox79

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And even then it makes little sense. I think they are going to go veteran route, someone who knows his way around, and can step in and play some minutes if necessary. Okafor is the opposite of that, and likely would get a minimum offer elsewhere, and somewhere he can play and not sit on the end of a bench
True but the Celtics have been rumored to have interest in Okafor forever. I'd imagine they have somewhat of an idea on how they would use him. Whether that's what is best for Okafor or not is another matter. It might be best for his development but not for his wallet.

If they go the veteran route, I think it will require the DPE.
 

Imbricus

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What they seem to need most right now is a shooter who can lift the bench unit. They were a putrid 2-19 last night, with Smart leading the way at 0-7 (or -1 for 7, if you count Irving's two that got reversed because of interference). That bad shooting is going to bite them on the ass in the playoffs if they can't fix it.
 

Eddie Jurak

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What they seem to need most right now is a shooter who can lift the bench unit. They were a putrid 2-19 last night, with Smart leading the way at 0-7 (or -1 for 7, if you count Irving's two that got reversed because of interference). That bad shooting is going to bite them on the ass in the playoffs if they can't fix it.
I don't rule out that they can fix it. That being said, if we had to act on the DPE today, shooter would be the obvious way to go. I still expect the Celtics to hold the DPE for now, in case a more urgent need develops.

Since someone pointed out to me that they can re-trade a player they acquire into the DPE slot immediately, I sort of wonder if they will use the exception to hunt bigger game. 2nd round pick for some stiff making $8.4 million, followed by a deal in which they send draft picks and salaries (including said stiff) for a better player. Although thus far I like Marcus Morris on the Celtics, they could theoretically ship out the DPE guy, Morris, Yabu, and Nader for someone making ~$20 MM who wouldn't need to be on an expiring deal (although if they did that would muck up next year's cap situation).
 

bosox79

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If the Clippers continue to suck, would people be interested in Lou Williams as a bench guy? Beverly would be even better.
 

the moops

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If the Clippers continue to suck, would people be interested in Lou Williams as a bench guy? Beverly would be even better.
Beverley is not an expiring. The Clips also have zero reason to trade him for he is signed at way way way below market rate for next year.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I can't see the Clippers punting but Lou Will is about the most perfect fit as a bench scorer that the Celtics could get right now. That said, I may be his biggest fan (stan?) in this forum.
 

bosox79

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Beverley is not an expiring. The Clips also have zero reason to trade him for he is signed at way way way below market rate for next year.
His contract next year isn't guaranteed. I guess that matters though?
 

bosox79

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The Celtics need a shooter off the bench IMO. Who would be available?
Atm, there really isn't anyone and it looks like a lot of teams could be fighting for playoff spots. The few players that are available are all bigs, which shows you the direction the NBA is moving in. Seth Curry is a possibility, Marco Belinelli, but outside of them, we're hoping on other teams to start losing badly a la the Clippers and Lou Williams.
 

benhogan

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He makes too much and isn't an expiring.
Matthews could be a buyout candidate discussed up thread.

on a completely unrelated note, I'd like to see Baynes start (esp against guys like Zaza and other standard bigs) and have MaMo be our offensive weapon off the bench (Iguodala role)
 
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benhogan

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Lou Williams is a good player. However, if we are looking for a guard who is a primary offensive option for the second unit, Tyreke Evans is the most intriguing possibility at this point. Memphis won't have Bird rights, so they cannot afford to keep him after this season if he keeps going and they seem likely to slide out of the playoff picture as the season continues to develop.
Tyreke Evans is having an excellent start to the year and a monster month (not tonight). Great signing by Memphis for $3.3M

Would much rather have him than Lou Williams. He'd be a nice fit for our 2nd unit and a good use of the DPE.

Still, think our answer for 2nd unit scoring is MaMo being our 6th man with Baynes(~15mins/game) back in the starting lineup.
 

bosox79

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I think come playoff time they'll want Morris in with the starting group which is why he isn't in the 2nd unit now.
 

Manzivino

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Tyreke Evans is having an excellent start to the year and a monster month (not tonight). Great signing by Memphis for $3.3M

Would much rather have him than Lou Williams. He'd be a nice fit for our 2nd unit and a good use of the DPE.

Still, think our answer for 2nd unit scoring is MaMo being our 6th man with Baynes(~15mins/game) back in the starting lineup.
I’d rather have the guy with a decade long history of being a good shooter than betting on Evans not to regress to what he’s been his entire career. Also, Memphis is going to be fighting for a playoff spot and are unlikely to be sellers while the Clippers look like a tire fire.
 

benhogan

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I think come playoff time they'll want Morris in with the starting group which is why he isn't in the 2nd unit now.
If MaMo plays 25-30mins/game and enters for Baynes 6 minutes into the 1st Quarter does it matter if he starts? It's more about matchups and MaMo would be the #1 scoring option on the 2nd unit, while he is 4th or 5th with the starting group. I'd also want MaMo as part of the closing 5 at the end of games. MaMo may be opposed to coming off the bench, which Brad will take into account.

I’d rather have the guy with a decade long history of being a good shooter than betting on Evans not to regress to what he’s been his entire career. Also, Memphis is going to be fighting for a playoff spot and are unlikely to be sellers while the Clippers look like a tire fire.
Agree, the Clippers are a mess and Memphis would have to be eliminated from playoff contention in order to deal Evans so Lou will be available much earlier. I do prefer Tyreke Evans for his size and fit but could see Lou as part of a 3 guard 2nd unit. Neither are going to come free, what would you offer for Lou?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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And even then it makes little sense. I think they are going to go veteran route, someone who knows his way around, and can step in and play some minutes if necessary. Okafor is the opposite of that, and likely would get a minimum offer elsewhere, and somewhere he can play and not sit on the end of a bench
If the Cs are able to grab Okafor, they'd be doing it because DA likes his assets, not because they are trying to fix a hole this year.
 

Manzivino

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Agree, the Clippers are a mess and Memphis would have to be eliminated from playoff contention in order to deal Evans so Lou will be available much earlier. I do prefer Tyreke Evans for his size and fit but could see Lou as part of a 3 guard 2nd unit. Neither are going to come free, what would you offer for Lou?
Maybe the Cs own first rounder which figures to be late round. I might go as high as the Clippers’ won pick they owe us; if they’re as bad as they seem they’re unlikely to make the playoffs in 2019 or 2020 and the pick is basically worthless, it might be better to cash it in while it still has some projected value. My calculus includes the value of Williams’ Bird rights, as it would be a nice hedge to know they can go over cap for one of him or Smart to pair with Rozier next year.
 

benhogan

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Maybe the Cs own first rounder which figures to be late round. I might go as high as the Clippers’ won pick they owe us; if they’re as bad as they seem they’re unlikely to make the playoffs in 2019 or 2020 and the pick is basically worthless, it might be better to cash it in while it still has some projected value. My calculus includes the value of Williams’ Bird rights, as it would be a nice hedge to know they can go over cap for one of him or Smart to pair with Rozier next year.
You need to remove that from your calculations, we don't get them using the DPE.
 

Manzivino

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You need to remove that from your calculations, we don't get them using the DPE.
Theres nothing in the CBA that says Bird rights are lost for a player traded for using a DPE. This article from MassLive says they would get Bird rights for a player they traded for: link

I think the confusion stems from the reports that the C's likely wouldn't trade for Noel using the DPE because he would lose his Bird rights, but that's because he signed a one year deal and would have to approve a trade. Any player in that situation would lose Bird rights in any trade, it has nothing to do with the DPE. Williams is on the last year of a three year deal, his Bird rights should transfer just like in any other trade.
 

benhogan

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Theres nothing in the CBA that says Bird rights are lost for a player traded for using a DPE. This article from MassLive says they would get Bird rights for a player they traded for: link

I think the confusion stems from the reports that the C's likely wouldn't trade for Noel using the DPE because he would lose his Bird rights, but that's because he signed a one year deal and would have to approve a trade. Any player in that situation would lose Bird rights in any trade, it has nothing to do with the DPE. Williams is on the last year of a three year deal, his Bird rights should transfer just like in any other trade.
Manz, apologies, you are correct on a couple of points:
1. Lou Williams would retain his Bird rights. Not sure how much we would want to go over the cap on a 32yr old Lou Williams next season with Smart contract coming up, but its worth something.
2. Our 2nd unit needs some shooting that Lou could provide. Still, don't love adding a 6'1" defensive liability to our team when MaMo (as a 6th man) could be an internal solution to our bench scoring issues.

Also, like Tyreke Evans more, but Memphis isn't giving him up anytime soon and Clippers are in free fall. Lou's trade cost would come cheaper, his availability would be sooner and he would have Bird rights. What conveys if that Clippers 1st rounder is in the top 14 picks in '19 or '20?

At the end of the day Danny & Co can stand pat with the DPE and not be in a rush with the team winning and exceeding all expectations so far. Hence he'll probably wait, post-trade date, to see the buyout candidates and address the Celtics needs then.
 

Manzivino

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Manz, apologies, you are correct on a couple of points:
1. Lou Williams would retain his Bird rights. Not sure how much we would want to go over the cap on a 32yr old Lou Williams next season with Smart contract coming up, but its worth something.
2. Our 2nd unit needs some shooting that Lou could provide. Still, don't love adding a 6'1" defensive liability to our team when MaMo (as a 6th man) could be an internal solution to our bench scoring issues.

Also, like Tyreke Evans more, but Memphis isn't giving him up anytime soon and Clippers are in free fall. Lou's trade cost would come cheaper, his availability would be sooner and he would have Bird rights. What conveys if that Clippers 1st rounder is in the top 14 picks in '19 or '20?

At the end of the day Danny & Co can stand pat with the DPE and not be in a rush with the team winning and exceeding all expectations so far. Hence he'll probably wait, post-trade date, to see the buyout candidates and address the Celtics needs then.
The Clippers pick turns into a 2022 second rounder if it doesn’t convey by 2020.

I don’t love Lou defensively either, but if you spot his minutes and play him with Smart and Rozier off the bench you can hide him. I would only expect them to re-sign Williams if they couldn’t sign Smart; that way they don’t lose the salary spot completely. I would be surprised if they dont exploit the opportunity to add someone with Bird rights for just that reason, whether it’s Williams or someone else.

Agreed that there’s no rush and they’ll wait until they see all their likely buyout candidate options before doing anything.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If the object of adding a player is for offense then Williams, who shots ~35% from deep, is far better than Evans, who is ~30% from deep.
 

JakeRae

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If the object of adding a player is for offense then Williams, who shots ~35% from deep, is far better than Evans, who is ~30% from deep.
This only makes sense if you both think that offense is entirely about 3 point shooting and you ignore the dramatic improvement in Evans' shooting over the last 3 years. He was .388 2 years ago, .356 last year and is over .400 so far this year. It seems safe to assume he's at least a .350 shooter from deep at this point.
 

bosox79

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This only makes sense if you both think that offense is entirely about 3 point shooting and you ignore the dramatic improvement in Evans' shooting over the last 3 years. He was .388 2 years ago, .356 last year and is over .400 so far this year. It seems safe to assume he's at least a .350 shooter from deep at this point.
He played a total of 65 games the past 2 years, and had 203 3 point attempts. It's safe to assume nothing.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He played a total of 65 games the past 2 years, and had 203 3 point attempts. It's safe to assume nothing.
Yeah, I was just about to point out that he played a total of 40 games last season and just over a quarter the season before. Prior to that, he was pretty abysmal from three.

There is no question that Evans length makes him a more versatile addition (even if he isn't a defensive stalwart) but I keep seeing posters say that the C's need more bench scoring (and I wholeheartedly agree).

Assuming that Ainge/Stevens also concur, I would prefer the Celtics spend resources to get the more dependable scoring option rather than a guy who is a regression candidate, even if he offers more upside than a more one dimensional player like Williams.
 

bosox79

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This only makes sense if you both think that offense is entirely about 3 point shooting.
Just wanted to add that while this is a big part of Lou's offensive game, it's hardly the only part. He can create his own offense and gets a fair amount of FTs. Plus Lou is hardly lacking in confidence and isn't afraid to shoot the ball. A lot of times it seems Marcus Smart shoots the ball because no one else on the 2nd unit will outside of Terry Rozier who you don't want shooting the ball either. I think the team has more than enough defense to carry an offense only player. Lou can also pass the ball a little so it would give another PG option besides Shane Larkin.

Right now, Smart and Rozier average 19.1 shots a game combined, whle the other bench players are at 13.9. That is roughly 33 FGA per game. Bring in Lou Williams and let him take 13-14 of those shots. I think Lou would open people up for better shots with his driving game and he can actually finish at the rim. If Smart was limited to mostly corner 3s and Rozier to open 3s, the 2nd unit offense would be much better.

edit: Short of that, or even combined with that, pick up a very good offensive rebounding big who can score on dunks, put backs and the like. If he can pass, all the better. Greg Monroe works. I'd love to see both.
 

Imbricus

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For those who missed it, everything you always wanted to know about the DPE (but were afraid to ask) came out today on the Celtics blog site. A pretty good summary of the various stratagems and associated deadlines (one of which has passed, and another will soon).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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For those who missed it, everything you always wanted to know about the DPE (but were afraid to ask) came out today on the Celtics blog site. A pretty good summary of the various stratagems and associated deadlines (one of which has passed, and another will soon).
Thank you for sharing. Very good color.