NBA Finals: Celtics vs Mavs
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
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Need to pass Luka along to that Twitter guy who analyzes why everyone's suits look bad. This is some really awful stuff; no wonder he sucked:
View: https://twitter.com/deliberatepix/status/1798869652271182118
View: https://twitter.com/deliberatepix/status/1798869652271182118
Kyrie Irving is now 0-11 against the Celts since he left:
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-kyrie-irvings-game-1-dud-vs-celtics-extends-three-year-winless-streak-against-former-team/
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-finals-kyrie-irvings-game-1-dud-vs-celtics-extends-three-year-winless-streak-against-former-team/
Before G1, LeBron talks about how tough it is to defend KP:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AJamTywdsY
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AJamTywdsY
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That's pretty damning. It's almost as if the Boston offense should just be that whomever Luca is guarding screens for the ball carrier. He'll either get beat or refuse to rotate and it will leave the weakside exposed.
The Mavs could try to counter this by not switching but that will just lead to drive and dishes or a kick out. Obviously, playing 5 on 4 against a team that can handle the ball and shoot is difficult, and perhaps the Mavs just move to a zone for most of the game to try to hide Luka and force the Celtics to hit threes without relying on screens as much, but KP should be able to excel in that situation, as a zone meant to at least challenge 25ft shots will be gaping around the foul line.
It sort of did go for a full quarter. Tatum hits a 3 to put the Celtics up 58-29 with 4:11 to go in the second. With 4:28 to go in the third, Luka hits a 3 to cut the Celtic lead to 8, 72-64. Brown goes 1-2 at the line with 3:55 to go. That's a 12-minute span where Dallas pounds the Celtics, 35-14.
Dallas's problem was the rest of the game. Kidd waved the white flag with 5:17 to go in the 4th and Boston up 100-75. In the 31 minutes outside of Dallas's run and before Dallas quit, Boston outscored them 86-40, which is mindblowing.
I look at this as really a defensive win. Once Dallas cut the lead to 8, the Celtics responded with a 14-0 run to push the lead up to 22. But I thought that run was more about the Celtics shutting Dallas's offense down completely moreso than putting on an offensive show.
- Lively travels after a rebound (great pressure from Celtics), then fouls Brown who hits 1 of 2. 73-64.
- Kyrie shuffles his feet in the post, then KP misses a three but JT gets the offensive board and feeds KP for a dunk. 75-64.
- Kyrie misses a three, Lively fouls Brown who hits both. 77-64.
- Jones attempted dunk blocked by Brown, Jones gets the rebound and is again blocked by Brown, Celtics don't score.
- Luka misses a three, Tatum drills a three. 80-64.
- Luke misses a three, Horford drills a three (assisted by Brown). 83-64.
- Kyrie layup attempt blocked by Brown (his 3rd block in 1:34), Kyrie second attempt misses, Brown drills a three, 86-64.
KP was also great. Apparently he came off the bench because Joe wanted Al pulling Gafford away from the basket and KP attacking Lively or whover the Mavs put on him. Worked like a charm. Impressive that he showed no rust at all.
Kind of a rough game from JT and PP, but everyone else was great.
Luka scored 30 points on 12-26, had 10 rebounds, but only had one assist. That was probaly Mazzulla's exact game plan.
We'll see what Dallas has in game 2 - I doubt Kyrie will shoot as poorly as he did, that Luka will have only 1 assist, and or that KP will shoot 62% again. But we should get better from Tatum. Whether this is fair or not, I look at Luka kind of like Embiid. If you make him have to do everything he just doesn't last 48 minutes. If the Celtics defense can continue to play this tough, I don't see how Dallas can stop the Celtics.
I don't think Dallas plays the brand of defense that our prior opponents did which I think got in Hauser's head.
There was a lot of Luka iso, but the Celtics also collapsed a lot and we didn’t really see a lot of passing. There were a lot of plays with three Celtics defenders almost all getting a hand on the ball - I don’t think that is something we have seen that much of this season.
I will say that Dallas missed a lot of open looks from three. A few more of those go in and it wouldn’t be as much of a blowout.
I don’t love the media attention on Luka’s - let’s call it lack of definition - but I do have to say that after playing as many NBA games as he has this season, it is surprising that he looks the way he does.
I will say that Dallas missed a lot of open looks from three. A few more of those go in and it wouldn’t be as much of a blowout.
I don’t love the media attention on Luka’s - let’s call it lack of definition - but I do have to say that after playing as many NBA games as he has this season, it is surprising that he looks the way he does.
Asked in the game thread, but who takes the Mavs out for some good times tonight and Saturday? Is The Truth around to be a tour guide?
Love JB's messaging:
View: https://twitter.com/NoaDalzellNBA/status/1798966998468280571
Obviously, everyone's high on the win, but it's all about Game B. Win that at home, go down to Dallas and take just one of them, finish things off in the Garden. Bing, bang, boom. Let's not get cute, fellas.
View: https://twitter.com/NoaDalzellNBA/status/1798966998468280571
Obviously, everyone's high on the win, but it's all about Game B. Win that at home, go down to Dallas and take just one of them, finish things off in the Garden. Bing, bang, boom. Let's not get cute, fellas.
Look at him lumber up the court after the missed layup. He's really struggling to get back.
In fairness to the crowd, it was hard to tell that he was even there last night.
Trolling the crowd after losing your 11th straight game to that team after shooting 6-19 takes an extra special level of insanity.
When Luka went to the ground and had to sprint to get back on defense, they showed a picture of Luka's face. I was afraid he was going to collapse right there. I can't find a picture right now; will try to get one later.
This is why the Bird comparisons nauseate me. Bird got his ass into NBA shape and was tenacious on both ends all game. Luka, otoh, is an incredibly offensively talented doughboy who cannot be bothered to get into NBA shape and compete on D. Call me a homer or whatever, but I’ll never have this guy in my top 5. He is a bottom of the barrel defender.
I remember that shot. Looked like a guy with three kids shoveling his car out of a snowbank, the day after a bender.
Larry was 3 times all-defensive team and 38th all-time in steals per game. Larry had some one-on-one limitations but he was a great help defender and knew where he was supposed to be on defense.
Luka just doesn't give a sh&t. I hope a lot more of these videos come out where Luka is standing around doing nothing - maybe that gets him motivated to get him in shape and play defense at some point in his career.
Or, looked a lot like me trying to shovel 28 inches of snow at 10,000 feet in CO like two months ago.
A few years ago he and his sister connected to their NA roots by spending time at the Standing Rock Sioux reservation. He’s 1/4 Sioux. My belief is that his connection with the Sioux matured him a bit. Didn’t make him any smarter or less of a horse’s ass but grounded him.
Also, playoff games tend to get louder when they're really close and there's a lot of tension. This one was a laugher for most of the game.
I don’t think we can overstate just how good Jrue and Derrick are at playing basketball. What I mean is that they just know where to be and what to do at all times. On defense last night Derrick just seemed to be able to pick his spots on when to help, double or switch. This wasn’t scheme it was just pure basketball skill and instinct.
A couple things that scream immaturity with Luka (& athletes like him).
1. He doesn't go full throttle on his conditioning in-season & off-season.
2. He doesn't explore what the advanced metrics say about his play. Analyzing his play solely on Triple Double/counting stats or just watching film isn't enough these days from a player at his level.
I don't have a problem with anyone saying he is the #1 NBA offensive player with the ball in his hands & best tough shotmaker. BUT he does a few non-box score things that hurt the offense. His lack of defensive pressure and attention to rotational detail speaks for itself.
(besides watching him play, these two videos helped me form that opinion)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck7qZudhRxo
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZfufGaRhHg&t=11s
Assume you saw the Barkley quote. Paraphrasing…”I always say it kills me when people compare Luka to Larry. That said, if Luka beats the Celtics this series, he might earn the Larry comparison. Dallas has no chance.”
I’m sure I’ve butchered the quote but that’s the gist of Charles’ message and it aligns with your comment.
All week long, pundits were talking about how DAL torched the #1 defense in the NBA so they shouldn't have problems with BOS. Only a few understood how different BOS's defense is from MIN (plus the fact that BOS had so many blowouts, their defense was probably underrated).
In G5 against MIN, DAL scored something absurd like 120 points per 100 possessions (may be more, don't want to look it up right now) in the half-court. Last night? 77.1 f'ng points per 100 possessions (96.7 /100 possessions overall, a playoff low for DAL).
This article - https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2024/6/7/24173426/nba-playoffs-finals-game-1-celtics-mavericks-luka-doncic-kyrie-irving-jayson-tatum-film-breakdown - is a very good look on how BOS defended. It includes some schematic commentary, which I love. It also includes a video that shows most (if not all) of Luka's missed shots off the PnR. I'm still laughing at all of the commentary who said that BOS wouldn't be able switch Al onto Luka (which they did a lot on March 1 - as if Al really aged tremendously in 3 months?).
Also, PP allowed 1 made FG before garbage time - and that was to PJ Washington. Luka was 0-2 and Kyrie was 0-2.
What a defensive performance - and that includes the 2Q/3Q run by DAL.
Before the series, I figured if BOS could score more than 115, they'd win. Karalis had his magic number at 110. I'm starting to wonder how many times DAL is going to break 100.
In G5 against MIN, DAL scored something absurd like 120 points per 100 possessions (may be more, don't want to look it up right now) in the half-court. Last night? 77.1 f'ng points per 100 possessions (96.7 /100 possessions overall, a playoff low for DAL).
This article - https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2024/6/7/24173426/nba-playoffs-finals-game-1-celtics-mavericks-luka-doncic-kyrie-irving-jayson-tatum-film-breakdown - is a very good look on how BOS defended. It includes some schematic commentary, which I love. It also includes a video that shows most (if not all) of Luka's missed shots off the PnR. I'm still laughing at all of the commentary who said that BOS wouldn't be able switch Al onto Luka (which they did a lot on March 1 - as if Al really aged tremendously in 3 months?).
Also, PP allowed 1 made FG before garbage time - and that was to PJ Washington. Luka was 0-2 and Kyrie was 0-2.
What a defensive performance - and that includes the 2Q/3Q run by DAL.
Before the series, I figured if BOS could score more than 115, they'd win. Karalis had his magic number at 110. I'm starting to wonder how many times DAL is going to break 100.
I suspected this would be the case, but it was put into even sharper relief last night just how much more the underrated (at least by pundits) the Indiana offense is. Their shooting, motion and creation is night and day compared to Dallas, which seems largely content to attack you with one action, maybe two, before committing to a shot.
One of my takeaways from last night is they wore Luka out.
he played the first 6:43 of the 4th, went 1-4 from the field, 1-3 from the line, no assists, no rebounds, and watching live I noticed he left everything short.... he was gassed.
he played the first 6:43 of the 4th, went 1-4 from the field, 1-3 from the line, no assists, no rebounds, and watching live I noticed he left everything short.... he was gassed.
Yea, I think Ky and his sister embraced their North American tribal roots during his time with Boston. He used incense to ward off bad spirits before a game a few years ago.
Good stuff. Thanks for posting.
I wouldn't be shocked if CJM had Horford start the rest of the series with KP coming in at the 6-minute mark. KP can hunt Green in the halfcourt offense, creating an immediate mismatch
I've never really liked Dallas' offense during the playoffs. It's very heliocentric and reliant on Luka (and to a lesser extent, Kyrie) to make something happen with everyone else standing around in designated spots. The game last night was really just hoping Luka makes some tough shots. When Dallas' went on their run in the third quarter it was really because Luka made a series of extremely difficult shots, and that just isn't sustainable over the course of the game.
It's funny to see how so many people were suckered into talking about individual offensive ability leading up to the series, which led to a ton of focus on "How will the Celtics stop Luka/Kyrie?" and then you watch Game 1 and it's clear the Celtics have a far superior offense because they play five out, everyone moves, and they really swing the ball around to the open man. Luka is the best offensive player in this series from an individual skill perspective, but the Celtics are better at actually putting the ball into the basket than the Mavericks, and that is what matters.
A hugely impressive thing to me was how the Celtics schematically took away Dallas' lob game, which had devastated teams during this run. I don't recall any successful lobs and only a few attempts from the Mavs. That really reduces the effectiveness Lively/Gafford have on offense.
Porzingis' contributions on defense were just as important as his shot making on offense. The Celtics did get carved up at the rim by Indiana, but KP is such a deterrence with his length and timing--he made a bunch of plays in the first half, some of which were highlight blocks and others were just him effecting shots at the basket.
It's funny to see how so many people were suckered into talking about individual offensive ability leading up to the series, which led to a ton of focus on "How will the Celtics stop Luka/Kyrie?" and then you watch Game 1 and it's clear the Celtics have a far superior offense because they play five out, everyone moves, and they really swing the ball around to the open man. Luka is the best offensive player in this series from an individual skill perspective, but the Celtics are better at actually putting the ball into the basket than the Mavericks, and that is what matters.
A hugely impressive thing to me was how the Celtics schematically took away Dallas' lob game, which had devastated teams during this run. I don't recall any successful lobs and only a few attempts from the Mavs. That really reduces the effectiveness Lively/Gafford have on offense.
Porzingis' contributions on defense were just as important as his shot making on offense. The Celtics did get carved up at the rim by Indiana, but KP is such a deterrence with his length and timing--he made a bunch of plays in the first half, some of which were highlight blocks and others were just him effecting shots at the basket.
What does it mean to "work really hard to keep your spacing"? I heard it during the broadcast and in a post-game interview by Kyrie.
Basically it means you should be aware of where you are relative to your teammates and, as appropriate, move off-ball to avoid clogging up an area. You don’t want two guys off ball standing in tight formation because it makes the defenders’ coverage easier/makes it harder for whoever has the ball to create an open look. If you watch the Celtics players off the ball for a few possessions you’ll notice this, eg, guys will shuffle to the perimeter, especially the corners, if they see an action coming or if they otherwise sense a teammate is moving into their area. It’s akin to receivers in football maintaining proper splits/depth in their routes so they aren’t finishing routes on top of each other, but it is a harder in basketball because the gameplay is more fluid.
It’s also why teams try to have legitimate shooters at all five spots if possible. If you have a bad shooter, like a Rudy Gobert, out there teams will literally sag off them 10 plus feet if they are standing/moving around the perimeter, allowing the defender to help more on other players.
Yeah, Dallas plays "chessboard" offense. Luka sets up the chessboard, makes a move, and then he shoots or passes directly for a shot, depending on the opponent's reaction.
They don't have guys who can extend advantages, so the possession bogs down if the chess move doesn't lead to a shot.
Compare that to Indiana, who constantly move, reset, react, and force you to defend for 24 seconds. There's a reason that Indiana's offense all season *without* Halliburton was better than Dallas' overall.
This stat is wild
In Game 1, however, Dallas went 1-for-6 on shots off Doncic's passes, and had just 209 total passes as a team, per Second Spectrum's tracking data, the Mavericks' fewest in any game (regular season or playoffs) since player tracking began in the 2013-14 season
In Game 1, however, Dallas went 1-for-6 on shots off Doncic's passes, and had just 209 total passes as a team, per Second Spectrum's tracking data, the Mavericks' fewest in any game (regular season or playoffs) since player tracking began in the 2013-14 season
I came away from that Indy series so impressed with the Pacers. They play hard and they play the right way. Maybe next year when they make another deep playoff run, they will start to earn some respect.
#2 reminded me of this piece on Porzingis. Basically, he says his whole game leveled up when he started listening to the stats guys and understanding what efficient play would do for making him more of a winning player. It wouldn’t surprise me if Luka makes a similar leap in a couple years, and then watch out.
Not a great endorsement of the Mavs coaching staff tho…
Won't matter if he doesn't get into elite shape. The only guy who wasn't in elite shape in the last like 45 years to have multiple titles as a star is Shaq. And I think he's an entirely different animal. And he was still in much better shape than Luka for most of those titles.
That all makes sense and while I'm sure it's harder than I'm making it out to be, what's so hard about it? Like, big praise for Boston doing that from the announcers and Kyrie, so why don't all teams space out like that?
Carlisle had them doing some special stuff on offense over there, and they get no credit. Respect.
Personnel mostly. Not every team has 5 players that can all shoot the ball well enough that the defense has to respect them
One of the things people in general don't get is the Mavs are not going to be as good as the Pacers were on offense. They aren't going to sniff that. Luka and Kyrie want to slow the game down.
Part of it is just a self-fulfilling prophecy: The Cs always have five shooters on the floor, so all of them get respect from defenders, thus they have good spacing. If X is out there, or Brissy, the defenders start to sag off them and - voila - the spacing gets worse.
But there's definitely an art to relocating to make sure you're not just statically standing on the perimeter. Jrue is the master of being in the dunker's spot so he's available for dump-offs if his man has to cover for a defender who's just been torched by one of the Jays, but then he quickly relocates to the corner so that his man doesn't stay in the paint and close off the next drive, etc.
I think what's "hard" is having the discipline to continue to move and relocate and not just ballwatch and wait for a shot to come your way. It's having the basketball IQ to see how you can impact the game without ever touching the ball on an offensive possession. That's got to be pretty hard for a league where almost every guy came up with the ball in their hands A LOT.
Wow, that's nuts. You'd think some random game in Feb or when they were tanking last year and not trying would be the fewest. But nope.