NBA Awards 2018-19

InstaFace

MDLzera
Sep 27, 2016
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They announced the NBA all-defense teams today:

First team:
PG Drew Bledsoe
SG Marcus Smart :love:
SF Paul George
PF Giannis Aintgonnaspellitout
C Rudy Gobert

Second team:
PG Jrue Holiday
SG Klay Thompson
SF Kawhi Leonard
PF Draymond Green
C Joel Embiid

The big show this year is Monday June 24th, 9pm ET
 

Ale Xander

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PG's must suck at defense.

I'd still go with Chris Paul or Jrue over Drew though. Or better yet, give Marcus Smart the PG and Klay the SG
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Sep 27, 2016
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They actually listed Marcus Smart as a PG, I just changed it to the position he's normally playing on the court, given that Kyrie and Rozier are usually the primary ballhandlers.
 

DrewDawg

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They actually listed Marcus Smart as a PG, I just changed it to the position he's normally playing on the court, given that Kyrie and Rozier are usually the primary ballhandlers.
Why don't you double check your first team PG.
 

nighthob

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Cut him some slack man, that Drew Bledsoe throws some pretty passes, even if the turnovers are a problem.
 

nighthob

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They actually listed Marcus Smart as a PG, I just changed it to the position he's normally playing on the court, given that Kyrie and Rozier are usually the primary ballhandlers.
For the record the NBA awards them by three positions, guard, forward, and center. There is no PG spot on the all defensive team.
 

cheech13

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2018-19 ALL-NBA FIRST TEAM

Position | Player, Team | 1st Team (5 Pts.) | 2nd Team (3 Pts.) | 3rd Team (1 Pt.) | Total | All-NBA Selections

F Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee | 100 | -- | -- | 500 | 3 (one 1st, two 2nd)
G James Harden, Houston | 100 | -- | -- | 500 | 6 (five 1st, one 3rd)
G Stephen Curry, Golden State | 91 | 9 | -- | 482 | 6 (three 1st, two 2nd, one 3rd)
F Paul George, Oklahoma City | 71 | 25 | 3 | 433 | 5 (one 1st, four 3rd)
C Nikola Jokić, Denver | 59 | 38 | 2 | 411 | 1

2018-19 ALL-NBA SECOND TEAM

Position | Player, Team | 1st Team (5 Pts.) | 2nd Team (3 Pts.) | 3rd Team (1 Pt.) | Total | All-NBA Selections

C Joel Embiid, Philadelphia | 40 | 57 | 4 | 375 | 2 (two 2nd)
F Kevin Durant, Golden State | 29 | 71 | -- | 358 | 9 (six 1st, three 2nd)
G Damian Lillard, Portland | 8 | 87 | 5 | 306 | 4 (one 1st, two 2nd, one 3rd)
F Kawhi Leonard, Toronto | -- | 73 | 23 | 242 | 3 (two 1st, one 2nd)
G Kyrie Irving, Boston | -- | 52 | 39 | 195 | 2 (one 2nd, one 3rd)

2018-19 ALL-NBA THIRD TEAM

Position | Player, Team | 1st Team (5 Pts.) | 2nd Team (3 Pts.) | 3rd Team (1 Pt.) | Total | All-NBA Selections

G Russell Westbrook, Oklahoma City | 1 | 43 | 44 | 178 | 8 (two 1st, five 2nd, one 3rd)
F Blake Griffin, Detroit | -- | 13 | 76 | 115 | 5 (three 2nd, two 3rd)
F LeBron James, L.A. Lakers | -- | 13 | 72 | 111 | 15 (12 1st, two 2nd, one 3rd)
C Rudy Gobert, Utah | 1 | 5 | 69 | 89 | 2 (one 2nd, one 3rd)
G Kemba Walker, Charlotte | -- | 4 | 39 | 51 | 1
 

cheech13

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It looks good to me, too. Beal over Westbrook is the only real change I'd have made as well. Didn't really like Lebron on the third team either, but really who deserved it more than him? Aldridge... yeah, that's not going to fly.

Jokic deserved first team, but I am surprised he got in that easily over Embiid. It seemed like the narrative had shifted to Embiid in the last few weeks of the season, but looks like the writers still appreciated Joker's overall body of work better.
 

Kliq

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Yo Kemba can make some serious money this offseason if he wants.
 

cheech13

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Yo Kemba can make some serious money this offseason if he wants.
Will Charlotte offer him the Super Max? Should they? That's a lot of money for a very good, but not great player. You definitely don't want to lose your best asset for nothing, but at what price does the contract become a hindrance and not a positive? He hasn't exactly led them to much success.

Lillard qualifies for the SuperMax, with room to spare.
Portland will offer him the Super Max this summer and he'll likely accept it. Like all of these Super Max contracts it's super risky from a long-term cap perspective but he means too much to that franchise.

George over both Durant and Kawhi is surprising.
Not really. In terms of name value, sure, but PG was the third best player in the NBA and was part of the MVP conversation all season with Harden and Giannis. He was a lock on the first team.
 

cheech13

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Does this mean the price to keep Kyrie is now a supermax?
No. The Supermax can only be offered by the team that drafted the player or traded for his rookie contract. Kyrie was traded during his second contract and is thus ineligible.

Giannis (after 7/1/2020), Anthony Davis, Kemba and Dame are the only players in the NBA currently eligible for a Supermax contract.

EDIT: Bobby Marks indicating on twitter that Rudy Gobert is also eligible to sign a Supermax after 7/1/20
 
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johnmd20

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Klay was 11th among shooting guards in PER. He was 27th in real plus minus. His shooting percentage was the lowest it's been for him in years. And he gets a significant amount of floor spacing due to Durant and Curry taking all of the focus.

What exactly is he complaining about? Maybe he's a great guy but he's quite possibly the most overrated player in the NBA. Put him on the Raptors instead of Kawhi and Toronto is eliminated in the first round.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Problem is that these guys generally don’t care about regular season. If I’m GSW why would I?

Other than pushing to make all-NBA get that $30m
 

HomeRunBaker

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That eye roll when he learned that Kemba got it is an all-timer. Hilarious.
Players egos and delusion aside it is difficult to say that Klay had a better regular season then Kemba did this year while carrying all the dead weight on his back for 82 games and nearly to the playoffs.

If I’m starting a team tomorrow I’m taking Klay. If I’m looking for a guy to plug into a contender I’m taking Klay......but Kemba had the better regular season this year.
 

lovegtm

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Players egos and delusion aside it is difficult to say that Klay had a better regular season then Kemba did this year while carrying all the dead weight on his back for 82 games and nearly to the playoffs.

If I’m starting a team tomorrow I’m taking Klay. If I’m looking for a guy to plug into a contender I’m taking Klay......but Kemba had the better regular season this year.
This is a more philosophical discussion, but NBA awards should weight the postseason heavily, if those awards are going to be used to set contract maxes.

There’s a good clip I’ll have to dig up of Bob Myers, where he’s talking about the fact that he evaluates players almost solely on how they’ll function in a postseason environment, and that would hold true for nearly all GMs.

Klay’s frustration is probably that he makes less money because his salary is tied to an award that doesn’t take into account the very thing players are evaluated and paid based on: playoff fit and performance. That’s likely why he instinctively kept referencing the Dubs’ postseason run in that clip, and his own importance in that: it intuitively (correctly) feels to him like that should matter more than Kemba dropping 50 in a random January game.
 

BigSoxFan

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This is a more philosophical discussion, but NBA awards should weight the postseason heavily, if those awards are going to be used to set contract maxes.

There’s a good clip I’ll have to dig up of Bob Myers, where he’s talking about the fact that he evaluates players almost solely on how they’ll function in a postseason environment, and that would hold true for nearly all GMs.

Klay’s frustration is probably that he makes less money because his salary is tied to an award that doesn’t take into account the very thing players are evaluated and paid based on: playoff fit and performance. That’s likely why he instinctively kept referencing the Dubs’ postseason run in that clip, and his own importance in that: it intuitively (correctly) feels to him like that should matter more than Kemba dropping 50 in a random January game.
Yup. And it’s really difficult to compare guys based on different roles. Klay plays with Curry and Durant so his numbers will always be depressed compared to the Kemba’s of the world. Both guys were deserving of the award but someone had to win it. Klay is a better player than Kemba and he knows it.
 

lovegtm

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Yup. And it’s really difficult to compare guys based on different roles. Klay plays with Curry and Durant so his numbers will always be depressed compared to the Kemba’s of the world. Both guys were deserving of the award but someone had to win it. Klay is a better player than Kemba and he knows it.
Agree, but it's not exactly about whether Klay he is a better player or not (spoiler: he is). It's that the award is specifically about the regular season, while players are primarily paid and acquired based on what they'll do in the postseason. It's a very real difference that particularly affects guys on the cusp of getting the supermaxes, and it was poorly thought-out in the CBA.
 

djbayko

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Agree, but it's not exactly about whether Klay he is a better player or not (spoiler: he is). It's that the award is specifically about the regular season, while players are primarily paid and acquired based on what they'll do in the postseason. It's a very real difference that particularly affects guys on the cusp of getting the supermaxes, and it was poorly thought-out in the CBA.
So how do we compensate the Kembas of the world, who don’t have the luxury of playing alongside 4 recent all-stars / HOFers? It seems to me that that they chose a system for the CBA which can apply to everyone instead of only those with good timing, GMs, luck, etc.
 

lovegtm

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So how do we compensate the Kembas of the world, who don’t have the luxury of playing alongside 4 recent all-stars / HOFers? It seems to me that that they chose a system for the CBA which can apply to everyone instead of only those with good timing, GMs, luck, etc.
I’m not talking about rewarding championships; this is closer to Draymond’s 16 vs 82 game player distinction. We often hear it said that “X is a better regular season player, but I’d rather have Y in the playoffs”, so it’s an intuitive distinction people already make.

As for the guys like Kemba, whom we really haven’t seen in the playoffs? That’s pretty damning on its own, if your extra value is supposed to come from being a better regular season player.
 

djbayko

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I’m not talking about rewarding championships; this is closer to Draymond’s 16 vs 82 game player distinction. We often hear it said that “X is a better regular season player, but I’d rather have Y in the playoffs”, so it’s an intuitive distinction people already make.

As for the guys like Kemba, whom we really haven’t seen in the playoffs? That’s pretty damning on its own, if your extra value is supposed to come from being a better regular season player.
Okay, the all-star/HOF part of my comment seems to have clouded my actual point, because you’re right that this isn’t really about the difference between Team X and the Warriors. There are just bad / mediocre teams with bad / mediocre GMs. That’s not necessarily the fault of each individual player, and I don’t think it’s necessarily damning, I don’t think there are many players who are good enough to make any collection of players a playoff team on their own.

There are trade offs with any system. They’ve chosen one which gives everyone a chance to be graded on a level field.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is a more philosophical discussion, but NBA awards should weight the postseason heavily, if those awards are going to be used to set contract maxes.

There’s a good clip I’ll have to dig up of Bob Myers, where he’s talking about the fact that he evaluates players almost solely on how they’ll function in a postseason environment, and that would hold true for nearly all GMs.

Klay’s frustration is probably that he makes less money because his salary is tied to an award that doesn’t take into account the very thing players are evaluated and paid based on: playoff fit and performance. That’s likely why he instinctively kept referencing the Dubs’ postseason run in that clip, and his own importance in that: it intuitively (correctly) feels to him like that should matter more than Kemba dropping 50 in a random January game.
I don’t disagree with any of this. It SHOULD be voted on once the postseason is completed but unfortunately those aren’t the parameters of the award for Klay. I get his frustration as I’ve always felt he was UNDERrated as a player but the voters got this right over this years 82-games imo.
 

the moops

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Agree, but it's not exactly about whether Klay he is a better player or not (spoiler: he is)
I disagree. I doubt we ever find out, but I think the world would see Klay far differently if he didn't have the fortune to play alongside Steph and KD. Yes, he is a super super fantastic shooter. And he once used to be a super defender (he is still very good). But I do think he would struggle to get those shots in a non-Warrior system
 

HomeRunBaker

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So how do we compensate the Kembas of the world, who don’t have the luxury of playing alongside 4 recent all-stars / HOFers? It seems to me that that they chose a system for the CBA which can apply to everyone instead of only those with good timing, GMs, luck, etc.
He gets compensated by having free reign to jack up as many shots as he’d like without having to be concerned with other all stars getting their touches. Kemba had an enormous advantage over Klay in putting up regular season numbers and this is a regular season award.
 

lovegtm

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I disagree. I doubt we ever find out, but I think the world would see Klay far differently if he didn't have the fortune to play alongside Steph and KD. Yes, he is a super super fantastic shooter. And he once used to be a super defender (he is still very good). But I do think he would struggle to get those shots in a non-Warrior system
I see where you're coming from, but his release is really quick, and the Warriors are far from the only team in the league that generates good looks for its 2nd and 3rd options. I'd argue that you could replace the 2nd best player on most of the NBA Playoffs "Elite Eight" teams with Klay, and that team would be better.

Thinking out loud: Philly (fit is better than Butler/Simmons), Toronto (easy), Milwaukee (better version of Middleton), Boston ( it's close with the role Horford plays), Houston (yes, now that CP3 is breaking down), Portland (yes), Denver (yes) would all likely be better replacing their 2nd best guy with Klay.

There's a real value in being able to plug in to any system as its 2nd or 3rd best player and fit seamlessly. Not many guys can do it, and it's critical for championship contenders to have multiple elite pieces. Elite shot creators are the coin of the realm, but once you have them, elite, smart defensive wings who can get their shot off against playoff contests are insanely valuable.
 

Kliq

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Anyone that wants to criticize Kemba for not making the playoffs this season needs to look at that Hornets roster and Kemba’s on/off numbers. Take Kemba away from that team and they are one of the worst teams in NBA history.