Ultimately, they should take the best offer, because they derive no value from keeping him. What they want isn't really relevant. It's what the other teams interested in him are willing to pay.
NBA 2018 Trade Deadline Chatter
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
- Start date
I think Evans would be the choice over Lou Williams or Aaron Gordon. Williams is going to cost a king's ransom for what the Clippers want him for and I think Evans would be a better long-term fit than Aaron Gordon. Evans can be the 6th man sparkplug off the bench and could pair well with Kyrie in late-game situations.
I agree they should take the best offer, but I think it's also the case that teams can get finicky about stuff like this.
I don't long term fit enters into the calculus with Evans. He does not come with Bird rights.
I am an admitted Lou Will fanboy but I don't agree. Williams and Evans likely will have similar suitors and while Lou is a much better scorer, Evans is a far superior two way player. Evans relative youth and contract also make him attractive to other teams as well.
The bidders will set the market for these guys versus the Clippers and the Grizzlies so it won't be shocking if Evans is more expensive than Williams in terms of assets going the other way, especially if LA staples Gallinari to Lou.
Finally, while Evans fits the Cs better long term, Williams fits them better for their more immediate need which is getting buckets - especially when Irving sits and Boston is last in the league in scoring.
Either way, they need to get one of the two or Boston won't go very far in the playoffs regardless of what Hayward can give them.
Unless Evans is willing to sign an MLE contract he’s a pure rental. I’ll be shocked if he doesn’t receive better offers, though.
The cap is not going that far up so if he wants to play for a contender he might only be limited to an MLE-type contract.
On the other hand he’ll be entering his age 29 season and his last shot at a big payday. There’s a pretty good chance that he’ll get an offer to start elsewhere at better money than Boston can pay. So if they trade for him I doubt they’ll be doing any long term planning around him as the odds are that they can’t retain him.
I don't think a 1st round pick is a very steep price for Evans. Given the Celtics' assets, that should be doable for sure.
Top 3 attainable targets:
1. Lou Williams
2. Tyreke Evans
3. Rodney Hood
I'd offer:
1. Our 2018 OR 2019 Celtic's first round pick+ for Lou.
2. Our 2019 1st round pick+ for Evans.
3. A 2nd rounder+ for Hood.
+ includes any of our flotsam and jetsam: Nader, Bird, Allen for above players. Guessing they have late 2nd round value (maybe even less).
Expecting our 2018 first rounder to be above #25 and 2019 above #27.
Not offering Rozier for any of the rentals. Feels like Terry will continue to improve his jumper, and believe he will take over the backup PG role while Marcus heals and potentially signs elsewhere. Also not including Yabusele for any of the rentals, think he has a role next season with work on his 3pt shot and fitness. While I want them to go for it this year, really believe we should keep our eye on 2018-19 when Gordon is fully healthy. Either way, 100% Trust in Danny/Brad.
So am I offering too little or too much?
1. Lou Williams
2. Tyreke Evans
3. Rodney Hood
I'd offer:
1. Our 2018 OR 2019 Celtic's first round pick+ for Lou.
2. Our 2019 1st round pick+ for Evans.
3. A 2nd rounder+ for Hood.
+ includes any of our flotsam and jetsam: Nader, Bird, Allen for above players. Guessing they have late 2nd round value (maybe even less).
Expecting our 2018 first rounder to be above #25 and 2019 above #27.
Not offering Rozier for any of the rentals. Feels like Terry will continue to improve his jumper, and believe he will take over the backup PG role while Marcus heals and potentially signs elsewhere. Also not including Yabusele for any of the rentals, think he has a role next season with work on his 3pt shot and fitness. While I want them to go for it this year, really believe we should keep our eye on 2018-19 when Gordon is fully healthy. Either way, 100% Trust in Danny/Brad.
So am I offering too little or too much?
flotsam and jetsam is not allowed if you are trading the DPE. It is DPE + draft picks only.
I would add Julius Randle to that list.
How about Michael Beasley? Noah Vonleh? Will Barton? Vince Carter?
no - don't trust the head, maybe - if the braintrust thinks there is hope, sure - athletics scorers are always welcome, no - too old and draws too much attention
Brown and Tatum are not interchangeable or comparable parts at this point. There is Tatum. And then there is Brown.
Sure sounds like Evans is going to get moved. The Grizzlies are sitting him until after the deadline.
Williams is tough to value. His gaudy offensive numbers from this season are impressive and he is, by most accounts, a good locker room guy. He also comes with Bird rights.
The problem is that he is 31 years old, is having a career year (so you are buying at the "highs"), is 6'1" and is a poor defender - as others here have noted, he is essentially what most people thought IT would become in his early 30s. So any team acquiring him is doing so for scoring only and if they are angling to resign him, they need a rotation around him that can cover for his defensive deficiencies.
The C's make sense for him and teams like Milwaukee or Toronto or Philadelphia might make sense too. In the West, Utah or maybe even someone like Denver might go after him. However, Williams isn't a player who gets a lower team into contender status - he is a guy who cements a team just outside the league elites.
Evans is tougher because he too is having a career year - and scoring in ways he hasn't before (3p% which could regress), has had a history of injuries and would be a pure rental. That said, he is a decent defender and goes well with the positionless NBA of 2018 so he fits a lot of teams.
Regarding Hood, my guess is that Utah will ask a lot for him given that he younger and under control for these guys. He will be the most expensive because Utah doesn't have to trade him.
I would bet Williams gets moved first and the Grizzlies then maximize Evans' value by auctioning him off to the also rans. I wonder if the markets for both are going to be softer than we might otherwise think because neither is a guy who a smart team would trade significant assets for given their ages, flaws and the fact that neither is a player you can really build around.
You could save the DPE (for buyouts after the trade deadline) if you sent Larkin/Nader + Draft Pick for Hood or Evans. Lou would take the DPE.
I wonder if using the DPE increases our bargaining power (since the other team gets to save a few $$$ by not taking back salary).
Randle, sure. But doesn't spread the floor
Vonleh, not really the scorer we need on the 2nd unit
Barton, Denver is playoff bound, not sure why they would be motivated sellers.
Beasley, Knicks probably think they are in the playoff hunt and will try to buy.
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I think we need to temper our expectations that there will be someone better than Lou Williams or Tyreke Evans available in the buyout market. If I remember correctly, last year's buyouts included Deron Williams, Andrew Bogut, Matt Barnes, and Jose Calderon.
Who are we expecting to possible maybe be bought out and available? Greg Monroe?
Who are we expecting to possible maybe be bought out and available? Greg Monroe?
Monroe has been getting minutes lately and Lens has been upset. Lens may be available in a trade? Monroe is probably being offered around if they can't move him I'd imagine they try to buy him out at a discount post-deadline.
It doesn't matter who starts. They'd probably end up playing the same amount of minutes in this scenario. It's just about fit. Who would be the better guy to take the scoring load on a second unit, Brown or Tatum?
Hmm, Sherrod says Grizzlies like Rozier. Kyrie has a “contusion” (yes I know he was kneed) and Rozier gets the start.
I didn't say they were. You don't necessarily need to have your best five players in your starting lineup. People lose their minds over who starts. It's not baseball. They'd both get their minutes, just think it makes much more sense if you can only fit one in a starting lineup that already includes Kyrie and Hayward, the lesser offensive guy would be the choice and the better offensive guy would be used when one of Kyrie/Hayward comes out. Doesn't seem like that hot a take.
I completely misread your post. I thought you were suggesting trading "Tatum/Brown", not starting one and bringing the other off the bench.
Mea culpa.
Kyrie was banged in Denver game, give him day off. And there's no way we trade our backup PG for Evans.
Interesting. Though that doesn't square with the idea that Clippers are trying to set up to sign a few max free agents.
His official name is Celtics Killer Greg Monroe and yes he would be a good bench rental for the playoffs.
MEM pick for who? Evans or Williams? That is nuts. That is a potential top of the lottery pick, and something you hold on to when you need to make a big move.
Yeah, Yabu’s trade value has to be quite minimal. He is basically salary filler.
No thanks. I don't want to trade a 22yr old BIG, that can shoot the 3, and controlled for 3+ years on the cheap.
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a few hours later and I'm already offering a mea culpa
Nader's +22 tonight spits on my flotsam and jetsam comment
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The Memphis pick has top 8 protection next year, top 6 in 2020, and is unprotected for 2021. They might turn out to be too bad for that pick to convey and then once it does I bet they will have regressed to mediocrity. We can hope.
And anyone who thinks Yabu is anything other than flotsam has not watched him play. Seriously, the guy looks like someone who has never played basketball before. Definitely some athleticism and a big who might be able to shoot is the caramel apple of everyone's eye these days but he's awkward as hell.
The Grizzlies want a #1 for Tyreke......not a 22-yr guy who has shown in two years that he cannot yet play in this league. Ainge gets hung up on within seconds.
That’s great and all. But the guy is filler and has no trade value. He doesn’t belong in this league and probably won’t last long.
Again, Evans is tough to value too. He has the two way bonafides and decent size. However his 3p% is not really 40% (its 29% in 10 games in January and the Grizzlies have wisely benched him to avoid him either getting hurt or dragging down his ~career high shooting percentages). He also has shown a tendency to get injured.
The Grizzlies are reportedly seeking a first for him and may get it. But its a steep price to pay for a journeyman rental who may not be exactly what the Celtics need, especially if his shooting continues to regress to the mean (which I suspect is more like a 35% 3p shooter - not awful but not exactly a huge upgrade over what Boston already has).
Edit: I will be even more bold in the face of what appears to be a lot of 'Reke love - he is a pretty flawed NBA player and the variance in outcomes for him on a new team, especially given that he would have to learn a brand new system on the fly, is pretty large. I hope he is a fallback if the C's cannot get Williams. In short, Williams would be a pretty big difference maker for the Celtics. Evans not so much.
The Grizzlies are reportedly seeking a first for him and may get it. But its a steep price to pay for a journeyman rental who may not be exactly what the Celtics need, especially if his shooting continues to regress to the mean (which I suspect is more like a 35% 3p shooter - not awful but not exactly a huge upgrade over what Boston already has).
Edit: I will be even more bold in the face of what appears to be a lot of 'Reke love - he is a pretty flawed NBA player and the variance in outcomes for him on a new team, especially given that he would have to learn a brand new system on the fly, is pretty large. I hope he is a fallback if the C's cannot get Williams. In short, Williams would be a pretty big difference maker for the Celtics. Evans not so much.
This seems about right. Last night Nader was a pleasant surprise and for once looked like he belonged on an NBA court. I've yet to see a game with Yabusele where I thought the same. Do you remember the game -- was it Milwaukee or Charlotte? -- where Brad expressly sent him in to foul someone, and Yabu couldn't even get that right, and Brad yanked him out of the game in disgust.