NBA 2014-2015 Game Thread

HomeRunBaker

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This road trip getting blown out by Sacramento then Golden State is the best thing that can happen to this Wizards franchise provided that it costs Wittman his job. He's completely lost this team from what I've seen and from what my friends in DC have told me.

The guy they need is the guy who Durant hand picks provided he and Beal are healthy and the whisper rumors are true of them being swapped.
 

Nick Kaufman

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Everytime I watch the Wizzards, I notice that their offense seems old fashioned-without any ball movement- and taking too many bad shots, especially long twos. Apparently, my impression is right:
 
 

 
The blue column is the points per shot NBA teams make by type of shot . The red is how the Wizzards fare.
 
 
As you can see, the Wizards are better than league average at short 2s, short 3s and long 3s and worse than league average at long 2s. But the overall value of each Washington shot ranks in accordance with the rest of the league.

So, the Wizards should try to generate – in order – short 2s, short 3s and long 3s.

Easier said than done, obviously.

Defenses exist, and they’re trying, too. Really, defenses would prefer to contest every shot, but like offense, playing defense is hard. That’s why many good defenses focus on taking away short 2s, short 3s and long 3s – leaving the less-damaging long 2s open.

To counter, good offenses either get good long-2 shooters, or they work even harder to avoid shots from that range. It’s a constant battle.

Except in Washington.

See, the Wizards will gladly take those long 2s. Wizards coach Randy Wittman, via Kyle Weidie of TruthAboutIt.net:

   
“You take open shots. You take open shots. Where they are is dictated by what the defense does. If you predicate what kind of shot you’re going to take not based on what you’re doing reading the defense, you’re not going to get good shots. I just worry about goods shots.

    You know what? Those numbers you can stick… alright? You know, all you analytical people that take that… You take good shots, that’s the most important thing. Maybe we’re not taking good midrange shots, maybe we’re taking contested ones. I understand the numbers are there for a reason, we look at the numbers, but to sit there and… We got a good, open shot we’re taking, I don’t care where it is.”
 
Opposing defenses are suckering you, Randy. Those shots are open for a reason.

No NBA team shoots worse on long 2s (37 percent) and has them comprise a higher share of their total shots (46 percent) than the Wizards.
 

 
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/04/washington-wizards-coach-randy-wittman-on-long-2s-you-know-what-those-numbers-you-can-stick-alright-you-know-all-you-analytical-people-that-take-that/
 
Wittman really has to go. The Wizzards should be doing better.
 

TroyOLeary

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bowiac said:
Does being a division winner in the NBA have any substantive impact? If Portland finishes at the 4 seed, but the Clippers have a better record, the Clippers would have home court. In what sense are the Blazers a higher seed then? Does it matter for the draft?
 
Avoiding one of the top 3 seeds.
 
It only differs from true seeding if the 6 seed has a better record than the 3rd division winner (which may happen this year, San Antonio is only a half game behind Portland).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Sam Ray Not said:
Warriors allow 27 points *total* in the second half, steamroll the Bullets 107-76.
 
Yeah, the Wiz missed a few open ones, but I'm gonna say the Warriors' league-best defense had something to do with it. :)
Nope. Haven't you read this thread? The Dubs are simply a free flowing regular season team.
 

HomeRunBaker

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Nope. Haven't you read this thread? The Dubs are simply a free flowing regular season team.
I was referring to offensively. We'll see how they respond to specific game plans focused on schemes over 7 games. Defensively they are solid but they also haven't accomplished anything yet.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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HomeRunBaker said:
I was referring to offensively. We'll see how they respond to specific game plans focused on schemes over 7 games. Defensively they are solid but they also haven't accomplished anything yet.
Fair enough and its not just you who doubts them here. I agree that they only a regular season juggernaut at this point but the thing they do best - play lock down defense, force turnovers and move the ball well - should translate well in the playoffs.

Contrary to what Charles Barkley and some here think, the Warriors aren't simply some jump shooting finesse team. Their defense is the best in the Association and that is no fluke.
 

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The Raptors and Pistons are going down to the wire in Detroit. The Pistons are loaded with talent in Drummond, Jackson, and Caldwell-Pope. They should be playoff contenders too.
 
The Raptors have fallen back to the pack after a breakneck start: Ross hasn't taken the next step forward, DeRozan is the next coming of Rudy Gay, and Lowry has run out of pixie dust. Valanciunas has a good inside game, though, and Amir Johnson is a good pro big man.
 

Kliq

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The only real hole I see in GS other than a lack of deep playoff experience is that they don't get to the line that much. Just looking at the box scores when they lose, it is usually because Curry and Thompson had poor shooting nights, and they struggle to score on offensive if their two big guns are not knocking down jump shots. Now because they are such great shooters, that is a rare experience and they have enough supporting players that can pop up and score 20 points, but that is the one thing that would worry me a bit as a GS fan.
 

radsoxfan

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I'm sure people can nitpick things about any team, even the best teams of all time.  But honestly, when you just step back from it and look at the overall numbers, GS is awesome. They have a +10.7 point differential (!!).  The next best teams are Clippers (+5.6), Atlanta (+5.2), and Cleveland (+4.8). This far into the season, you are what your point differential is for the most part. 
 
Sure, if they got to the line a little more they might be even better.  Sure, they havent accomplished anything in the playoffs yet.  But that's missing the forest for the trees in my opinion.
 
They have clearly been the best team in the league this season.  Obviously injuries and match ups can be important in the playoffs, but I think they are definitely the favorites to win the title this year.  
 
I'll go with GS over Cleveland in 5.  Either that…. or the Celtics over GS in 6.  Not sure yet.
 

radsoxfan

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Just to clarify….
 
I dont rank the rest of the NBA strictly by point differential.  Certainly Cleveland and Atlanta are inflated by playing in the East.  And so many good West teams are lumped together in that +3 through +5 range that they are close to equal.  In those cases, match-ups and injuries will definitely play major factors in who advances in the playoffs.
 
But the Warriors are so much better the everyone else this year I'm not sure even a suboptimal matchup will knock them out (though a Curry injury of course would be devastating).  It just might make the series a little closer than we might expect.  They are that good. 
 

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The other thing about GS that is obvious but should be stated anyway is that they're insanely good at home (34-2 with the fifth highest point differential of all time, 15.7 I believe) and that they will have home court in every series. I think they'd probably prefer to not see a clicking-on-all-cylinders San Antonio team if possible given their historical issues with beating them (and SA had one of the two wins in GS this year, although it was in November), but agreed that they're the pretty clear favorites right now.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Well, regular season stud/playoff flawed club or not, Golden State clinched the Pacific Division tonight in Rip City.
 
Warriors shoot 60% from the field in Portland tonight as they knock of a scrappy but undermanned Blazer squad (Aldridge and Batum sat along with the bleached corpse of Chris Kaman).  Curry finished 13-21 of the field (five of nine on threes) for 33 points and added 10 assists for good measure.  As SRN points out, Andre Iguodala appears to have rediscovered some of his mojo as he put up 21 points off the bench on 9-11 shooting.  Draymond Green played center for the entire fourth quarter as part of the Warriors wings-here-wings-there-wings-everywhere line-up and finished with 14 points, 11 boards and eight assists.
 
So now its on to Memphis on Friday.  I know its not the playoffs but you can rest assured that Steve Kerr and the Warriors want to beat the Grizzlies if only to prove that they can do so.  This may well be the biggest game of the regular season for Golden State.
 

LondonSox

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I thought this comment from the Sixers excellent blog liberty ballers says a lot

Hard to believe, but Ish Smith is a better point guard (at least for this team) than Michael Carter-Williams. He finished the night with 13 points, 8 steals, and 7 rebounds.
http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/3/25/8287035/sixers-kings-recap-five-observations-from-sacramentos-victory

Noel has noticeably improved since the MCW trade. Looking more and more like a player. The KD sad news is a reminder why the Sixers aren't going to be rushing Embiid back, but I'm looking forward to seeing those two together. Noel is really an unusually good defensive player as a rookie. His offense has come along since MCW left town.

Not only does Noel lead all rookies in rebounds, blocks, and steals, hes also the only NBA player in the top 10 in both blocks (eighth) and steals (10th). Thats not, you know, normal.

Advanced metrics support the eye test. Noels Defensive Box Plus/Minus ranking is second in the NBA, his Defensive Rating is eighth, and, according to SportVU player tracking, opponents shoot only 45 percent at the basket against him, which places him in elite rim-protector territory. The Sixers surrender 99.5 points per 100 possessions when hes on the floor which is slightly better than the Rockets and Blazers, the third- and fourth-best defenses in the league.
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nerlens-noel-the-other-rookie-of-the-year/

https%3A//vine.co/1f70ea17-ecf9-408a-aebf-75acc456ef68

https://youtu.be/AQIhZrDliOs

I can't get these video to embed but they are fun
 

Kliq

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When Philly was willing to trade the previous season's rookie of the year and one of their few NBA level players, it should have gone off as a huge red flag for MIL to maybe think that something was wrong with this guy.
 

Tony C

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Fair enough and its not just you who doubts them here. I agree that they only a regular season juggernaut at this point but the thing they do best - play lock down defense, force turnovers and move the ball well - should translate well in the playoffs.

Contrary to what Charles Barkley and some here think, the Warriors aren't simply some jump shooting finesse team. Their defense is the best in the Association and that is no fluke.
 
Wow, it takes a special sort of paranoia to play the persecuted card when you're on the bandwagon of the #1 overall club in the NBA, a club that I see picked as the eventual champion by most everyone I read. And I'd certainly agree they have to be the favorite.
 
I'm not sure to what particular post this is referring (potentially it was to me noting how bad the Wizards looked offensively in that horrid 3rd Q -- perhaps I didn't give due deference to the Dubs in so noting?), but I think when everyone thinks as highly about GS as we/they do, it's a bit much to get offended if each and every post does not begin with ritual genuflection in the direction of the Bay Area. I say the above with snark, obviously, but the following is no snark:
 
The Warriors are a stunning team to watch both on offense and defense. Steve Kerr is the best thing to happen to them. They are a clear favorite to win the NBA championship. They really are a joy to watch play basketall in style, and they're the class of the NBA on both sides of the ball, and on the sideline.
 
Now, back to (lighthearted) snark: if you'd like I can insert the line above into my signature so you can read it with each and every post. It's possible some posts once the playoffs hit might not be purely about praising the Dubs and may even dare to raise questions about their interior defense , especially if Bogut is hurt, or how difficult it is to go all the way through the playoffs facing teams that might be more experienced.
 
I mean, seriously.....Every homer feels their team is underappreciated. And a Hawks fan, say, has a right to be defensive about how little credit Atlanta gets. But to play the underappreciated card with GS is really, really a stretch.
 
Anyway, actually came here to note how snakebit the Rockets seem to be with injuries. Howard is semi-coming back, but Beverly out with ligaments could really hurt. His hounding Tony Parker or Steph Curry (may peace be upon him) or Chris Paul or whomever will be key if the Rockets are to have playoff success.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Tony C said:
 
Wow, it takes a special sort of paranoia to play the persecuted card when you're on the bandwagon of the #1 overall club in the NBA, a club that I see picked as the eventual champion by most everyone I read. And I'd certainly agree they have to be the favorite.
 
I'm not sure to what particular post this is referring (potentially it was to me noting how bad the Wizards looked offensively in that horrid 3rd Q -- perhaps I didn't give due deference to the Dubs in so noting?), but I think when everyone thinks as highly about GS as we/they do, it's a bit much to get offended if each and every post does not begin with ritual genuflection in the direction of the Bay Area. I say the above with snark, obviously, but the following is no snark:
 
The Warriors are a stunning team to watch both on offense and defense. Steve Kerr is the best thing to happen to them. They are a clear favorite to win the NBA championship. They really are a joy to watch play basketall in style, and they're the class of the NBA on both sides of the ball, and on the sideline.
 
Now, back to (lighthearted) snark: if you'd like I can insert the line above into my signature so you can read it with each and every post. It's possible some posts once the playoffs hit might not be purely about praising the Dubs and may even dare to raise questions about their interior defense , especially if Bogut is hurt, or how difficult it is to go all the way through the playoffs facing teams that might be more experienced.
 
I mean, seriously.....Every homer feels their team is underappreciated. And a Hawks fan, say, has a right to be defensive about how little credit Atlanta gets. But to play the underappreciated card with GS is really, really a stretch.
 
Anyway, actually came here to note how snakebit the Rockets seem to be with injuries. Howard is semi-coming back, but Beverly out with ligaments could really hurt. His hounding Tony Parker or Steph Curry (may peace be upon him) or Chris Paul or whomever will be key if the Rockets are to have playoff success.
 
You wouldn't even be in the top three (and only because we have about five guys here who actively follow the NBA) on my list of those here at SoSH who doubted the Warriors.  Nobody is being persecuted and to be fair to HRB, he is right - they have done nothing yet.  Please snark away - I am a fan.  And to be clear, I wouldn't anoint the Warriors champs just yet but I will be surprised if they don't go deep in the West.   Cleveland is very good but before anyone out of the West gets there, the Spurs, Grizzlies and perhaps one of the other teams will have a decent shot at the finals.   
 

LondonSox

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Kliq said:
When Philly was willing to trade the previous season's rookie of the year and one of their few NBA level players, it should have gone off as a huge red flag for MIL to maybe think that something was wrong with this guy.
YUP!
Noel with another very good game, 14 points 15 boards, 4 blocks, 4 steals on 5-8 shooting.
Post All star break he's averaging a double double with 2.8 blocks and 2.4 steals. He genuinely good defensively NOW has taken a big step forward in his FT shooting, and a medium one offensively.

He deserves a real discussion for ROY, this isn't counting stats, he's getting double doubles without high utilisation rates and his defence is legit
 

HomeRunBaker

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
 
You wouldn't even be in the top three (and only because we have about five guys here who actively follow the NBA) on my list of those here at SoSH who doubted the Warriors.  Nobody is being persecuted and to be fair to HRB, he is right - they have done nothing yet.  Please snark away - I am a fan.  And to be clear, I wouldn't anoint the Warriors champs just yet but I will be surprised if they don't go deep in the West.   Cleveland is very good but before anyone out of the West gets there, the Spurs, Grizzlies and perhaps one of the other teams will have a decent shot at the finals.   
I'm actually a huge fan of what this team is doing.....Curry is putting on a silly show every night! They have done an amazing job of assembling not only talent but talent that fits into their scheme to maximize guys like Green and Thompson both of whom greatly benefit from Stephen and their system.

I see many problems in what is successful in the regular season and the post-season when defensive intensity and game planning is ramped up significantly. Another issue is a lack of interior rim protection along with Bogut's health.

Looking at regular season stats they are clearly THE best team in the league. They just haven't experienced how to adjust to post-season defensive game planning which is far different than a long regular season approach. It's going to be fascinating to see how they respond and adjust when necessary.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Somebody is going to be taking a BIG risk next summer. He isn't the typical heavy big guy with foot problems but he also moves a lot more.
 
This puts a damper on any potential trade market if Presti wanted to go with the nuclear option before losing him for nothing.
 

Kliq

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BigSoxFan said:
Paging DRS, is KD going the way of Bill Walton?
 
I think Walton and people like him are the reason that OKC is doing this.
 

Al Zarilla

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Good one in Memphis right now. Griz are the only team the Warriors haven't beat this year. I think they want it. Tony Allen starts, Jeff Green off the bench but Curry is the most fun player to watch in the NBA.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Wipe out. Warriors 107-84 in Memphis.
 
Curry: 34 minutes, 38 points (on 22 fga), 10 assists, 3 steals, +26. Held Conley to 0 points in the second half.
 
They've lost 1 game in the last 14, and that was the game Kerr tanked in Denver by sitting Curry, Thompson, Iguodala and Bogut in the same game (and they still had the lead in the 4th quarter that game).
 
59-13, .819, point differential of +10.9. The only team in the NBA with even half that is the Clips at +6.2.
 
8. Golden State
Are we sure the Warriors are that good? I think they are highly overrated and in a brutal west, no fucking way they are the top seed. They are relying on perhaps the most fragile player in the league to protect their rim, and have two horrifically bad defenders playing huge minutes in their starting five. They have a rookie coach who nobody knows if he is any good or not. They are bringing back largely the same team that lost in the first round, and they might not have even taken it to seven games if their other team wasn't going through an ownership crisis. I just don't see how anyone can think they are THAT good.
 
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't know who wrote that but who the heck are the two horrifically bad defenders in the Warriors lineup? I suppose maybe Barnes is their worst defender and he isn't even bad. All the other 4 are well above average to elite.
 

Kliq

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I don't know who wrote that, probably some really handsome guy. I was referring to Curry (who made great strides on defense this season) and Lee (who was the starter before the Draymond Green revolution),
 

Sam Ray Not

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I don't know who wrote that but who the heck are the two horrifically bad defenders in the Warriors lineup?
 
It was Kliq in the preseason prediction thread a week before opening tap (just giving him a hard time -- I generally like and agree with his takes). At the time, I'm assuming he meant Lee and Curry. Lee's now effectively the 10th man and has been replaced in the starting 5 by arguably the defensive player of the year. Meanwhile, Curry's leading all NBA PGs in defensive RPM. Among their core rotation guys, I think "Barnes is their worst defender and he isn't even bad" is pretty spot-on. (Lee and Speights are worse, but they're not core guys). Their five-headed wing-defending switching boa constrictor of Green, Iguodala, Thompson, Barnes and Livingston has just been crushing the life out of teams. And the return to health of Ezeli backing up Bogut just makes them more fearsome on that end.
 
They were a very good defensive team last year, but I think Kerr and Ron Adams together with the Lee/Green switch have just pushed them to another level. 
 

HomeRunBaker

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Kliq said:
I don't know who wrote that, probably some really handsome guy. I was referring to Curry (who made great strides on defense this season) and Lee (who was the starter before the Draymond Green revolution),
Ah ok makes sense with Lee for sure. For the record I don't necessarily agree with calling you out like that on a prediction as we've all made incorrect predictions at some point.

Edit: Just read the part about giving you a hard time. All in good fun no harm no foul.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah I am a Kliq fan too so if I am going to hold him accountable for his call (and he had some basis on which to doubt Golden State too - especially if it was predicated on Andrew Bogut's ability to stay healthy) I have to put my many bad calls on this site over  the years up to scrutiny too.
 
More to the point, TroyOLeary gets props for calling Budenholzer as the coach of the year and I believe he had the Hawks finishing higher than the rest of us.  That is very impressive.
 

Tony C

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Yeah, sorta dangerous on a board like this to call out guys. we all know pre-season picks are speculation and no reason to discourage people into thinking any strong opinion risks being thrown in their face (says the guy who defended Tim Tebow and has had that thrown in my face repeatedly! :) )
 
Speaking of predictions, someone called out above that Memphis did not have that firm of a grip on the #2 seed, and that seems prescient. And, on the flip, I'm just impressed that the Rockets keep winning despite injuries. Beverley isn't great, but it's still hard to imagine winning in the playoffs without his above avg defense on point guards. But the question really is who could rise to the Warriors level and battle them to 7 games in a series?
 
The Mavs aren't good enough and without Durant neither is OKC. Memphis is a pain-in-the-ass team and you could make the "playoffs slow the game down/favor grinder clubs like the Griz" but I don't really buy it. And I don't buy the Trailblazers, either. It seems to me there are three clubs in the West who could give the Dubs a run for their money:
 
-Houston: if Dwight can play 25 minutes per game in the playoffs that more than makes up for the defensive loss of Beverley. And it seems as if Jones should be back at least by the playoffs, and certainly in form by the 2nd round. If so, man that's a scary team if Harden gets playoff mojo going.
 
-LA Clippers: 2nd best team in the NBA by point differential and some noises that Jamal Crawford will be back by the playoffs. Paul was MVP great in Griffin's absence and seems like one of those situations where a team is helped by performing well without a star as everyone else is forced to be more assertive. Since his return they look pretty great, and that's without Crawford.
 
-San Antonio: It's sad that the dream OKC (with Durant)-GS match-up won't happen, but man the Spurs-Dubs in a conference final would be epic.Things are locking into place in general, but Tony Parker is still sub-standard. If he can raise his game the way his teammates have, then I might genuinely fear the Spurs if I'm a Dubs' fan.
 
Bottom line is, that while I think either the Rockets or the Clips could give anyone a run for their money, it's hard to see them actually winning the West. A revived Spurs team, though, while I wouldn't pick them would be awfully interesting.
 
If the Rockets pass the Grizzlies for the #2 seed, those 4 teams would be my first round picks (GS over OKC; Houston over Dallas; SA over Memphis; Clippers over Trailblazers). Clippers verus Dubs would be raucus and Houston vs San Antonio a ton of fun, too, in a 2nd round....
 
Some fun...
 
 
 
 
 

Sam Ray Not

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Warriors get to 60 wins while only one other Western team (Memphis) has as many as 50.
 
Maybe just as remarkably: this is the first time in the 69 year history of the franchise -- in Philly, SF, or Oakland -- they've notched 60.
 
Dopes, if you think it makes more sense to resurrect the "Warriors come out and play" thread, I'm happy to do that. Though in fairness, the Warriors are basically the NBA's big story thus far this season.
 
Also had to post this:
 

 
 
Edit: and a great piece on them in yesterday's NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/sports/basketball/for-golden-state-warriors-winning-isnt-the-only-thing.html?ref=sports&_r=0
 

Tony C

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Isn't the worry more about Parker's defense having declined a bit? Read somewhere or another about how he can't get over screens, etc. When you see a team once every two weeks, it's hard to pontificate with certainty. The playoffs are going to fun in that respect.
 

ifmanis5

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Rockets are crushing the Wiz who look awful.
 
Hate the way ESPN/ABC cuts their games. Almost no hero shots, very few low live or high tight angles so you end up with one long monotonous pan back and fourth from the main game cam. It's really antiquated and boring.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I'd also add Warriors v. Clips to the list of entertaining potential WC finals matchups. The Clips have been flying under the radar a bit, but have the second-best PD in the league and have been crushing teams over the last couple of weeks. I think it's a bit of a travesty that Chris Paul isn't mentioned more often in MVP or Best PG discussions -- he's been carrying that team as much as Harden has carried the Rockets or Westbrook has been carrying the Thunder. ESPN hype and fantasy counting stats notwithstanding, I think he remains a better PG than Russell Westbrook. The whole "is it Westbrook or is it Curry?" debate is fairly classic ESPN oversimplification -- especially when you have Steven A. Smith exponentially increasing the silliness by screaming about how Westbrook is better because (unlike Curry) he plays defense. It's always weird to me that the same site that promotes that nonsense also features some of the smartest hoops writers going (Lowe, Arnovitz, Strauss, e.g.)
 
Anyway, Warriors/Spurs would be my ultimate WCF, but the bad blood between Warriors and Clips makes that a close #2 for me.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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No.  He just wants the Clips because it will be fun rubbing the noses of the most miserable playoff team in NBA history in their own mess.   With all respect to El Uno, that team must be tough to watch as a fan.  With the exception of Jordan, the team comes off as a bunch of whiny, joyless dicks.  They suck the fun out of basketball.
 

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Zach Lowe was saying in one of Simmons' podcasts that everyone around the league hates the Clips for their whining.
 

Tony C

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that would be another great match-up -- Warriors-Clippers have a few wars, so would be intense. And agree the PD does tell the tale: the Clippers likely are the 2nd best team in the NBA overall and are flying under the radar. That said, the match-up is one that I think favors GS, so I suspect the Spurs or Rockets might have a better shot.
 

Tony C

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Per the Celtics game today, I swear it seems I've seen 4 Clippers games this year in which the starters were being rested because they were up 20+ in the 4th quarter and then they had to be called back in because the 2nd team couldn't hold even that sort of lead.
 
The bad is their bench sucks. The good is they should be a team that benefits more than most from the shortened benches come playoff time. All the more if Crawford is back.
 

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
No.  He just wants the Clips because it will be fun rubbing the noses of the most miserable playoff team in NBA history in their own mess.   With all respect to El Uno, that team must be tough to watch as a fan.  With the exception of Jordan, the team comes off as a bunch of whiny, joyless dicks.  They suck the fun out of basketball.
I'm fully aware and harbor some of the same sentiments for my own team. However, every fucking team whines and cries. It's embedded in the dna of nba basketball.

I wouldn't mind seeing warriors clipps. But any matchup really. ive truly grown to hate and be annoyed by the monkey basketball the warriors play and I'm dying to see them in the playoffs. the constant historical analysis, game by game parades. Im old. Just win in the playoffs, that'll impress me
 

Tony C

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er...you mean "hysterical" analysis?
 
had to stare at that for a sec....
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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ElUno20 said:
I'm fully aware and harbor some of the same sentiments for my own team. However, every fucking team whines and cries. It's embedded in the dna of nba basketball.

I wouldn't mind seeing warriors clipps. But any matchup really. ive truly grown to hate and be annoyed by the monkey basketball the warriors play and I'm dying to see them in the playoffs. the constant historical analysis, game by game parades. Im old. Just win in the playoffs, that'll impress me
 
While I can see how the Warriors style (particularly how Draymond Green comports himself on a basketball court) might annoy opposing fans in that they celebrate everything and are constantly talking, I don't know what you mean by the phrase above.  
 
That said, the Clips always seem to be joyless and as much as I love Doc (again, I am a Dubs band-wagoner since the We Believe team back in '07 but a C's fan for a lot longer), his DocFace (tm) can be a bit tiresome at times.  I feel for guys like you because if you are Clippers fan, you deserve a team to love after everything you've put up with over the years.
 

Sam Ray Not

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ive truly grown to hate and be annoyed by the monkey basketball the warriors play
 
Haha, awesome. I'm not sure what you mean here either, but as they say, you ain't a player till you get hated on. It kinda reminds me of the joy I felt post-2004 when I realized that my lifelong MFY hate was now reciprocated by equal-and-opposite hate among Yankees fans, rather than just pity and indifference.
 
But you're right, the Ws actually have to do something in the playoffs (basically, win it all) if DJBMH and I really want to bask in the hate. There's nothing hysterical about saying this has been a historic regular season so far (not just by Warrior standards, but by NBA standards) but it won't mean much if they end up like the 2007 Mavs. As Shaq said, they pretty much have to win the whole thing now. Even while trying to enjoy this amazing team and moment, I have to say the prospect of getting through four grueling playoff rounds with the stakes now raised to "championship or bust" does terrify me somewhat.
 

Tony C

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I don't know. That seems a bit rough on the Dubs. Should they go to the finals and lose to, say, Lebron and co -- I don't think it'll be seen as a failure. They probably do have to make it out of the West, though, after all the talk (both by them and about them).
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
 
While I can see how the Warriors style (particularly how Draymond Green comports himself on a basketball court) might annoy opposing fans in that they celebrate everything and are constantly talking, I don't know what you mean by the phrase above.  
 
That said, the Clips always seem to be joyless and as much as I love Doc (again, I am a Dubs band-wagoner since the We Believe team back in '07 but a C's fan for a lot longer), his DocFace (tm) can be a bit tiresome at times.  I feel for guys like you because if you are Clippers fan, you deserve a team to love after everything you've put up with over the years.
 
Yeah, I don't know about monkey ball, either. But I'll sort of defend both clubs here. There's no doubt that, as you say, Green in particular is a Matt Barnes style a-hole, only worse. And, more generally, given how much everyone whines in the NBA (Mark Cuban, anyone?), this is all just a matter of degree. I think what puts the Clippers beyond the NBA norm is only Griffin. Others might be more/less annoying, but pretty much standard. I don't agree with you in re the Clippers playing a joyless style of basketball. Did you even watch them wipe out the Celtics? It's a fun style with plenty of showtime style dunks -- and CP3 may have a scowl on his face, but man if you can't get joy out of watching him I don't know what to say -- just so great. But the irony is that Griffin is both part of the more fun, freewheeling part of the Clippers and why it doesn't look as fun as it might. I'm not sure what that guy's problem is, and he's really good and I think taken an important step up this year in terms of developing his mid-range game. It actually makes his numbers look worse since he's only competent from mid-range, not great, but it opens up a lot for the club as a whole that it now needs to be respected. But there's the NBA norm of bitching and complaining non-stop and then there's Blake Griffin -- he really is over the edge.
 
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Tony C said:
I don't know. That seems a bit rough on the Dubs. Should they go to the finals and lose to, say, Lebron and co -- I don't think it'll be seen as a failure. They probably do have to make it out of the West, though, after all the talk (both by them and about them).
 
 
Yeah, I don't know about monkey ball, either. But I'll sort of defend both clubs here. There's no doubt that, as you say, Green in particular is a Matt Barnes style a-hole, only worse. And, more generally, given how much everyone whines in the NBA (Mark Cuban, anyone?), this is all just a matter of degree. I think what puts the Clippers beyond the NBA norm is only Griffin. Others might be more/less annoying, but pretty much standard. I don't agree with you in re the Clippers playing a joyless style of basketball. Did you even watch them wipe out the Celtics? It's a fun style with plenty of showtime style dunks -- and CP3 may have a scowl on his face, but man if you can't get joy out of watching him I don't know what to say -- just so great. But the irony is that Griffin is both part of the more fun, freewheeling part of the Clippers and why it doesn't look as fun as it might. I'm not sure what that guy's problem is, and he's really good and I think taken an important step up this year in terms of developing his mid-range game. It actually makes his numbers look worse since he's only competent from mid-range, not great, but it opens up a lot for the club as a whole that it now needs to be respected. But there's the NBA norm of bitching and complaining non-stop and then there's Blake Griffin -- he really is over the edge.
 
 
A couple of thoughts.  As anyone who has read my drivel in this thread knows, I love Draymond Green a lot.  I mean, he is my second favorite Warrior.  That said, he constantly talks at refs, opposing players and even his own coaches so I can see how he might irritate people.  But I cannot agree at all that he is an asshole.  He is loud but I think he is a good sport.  He isn't perfect but I wouldn't characterize him as a jerk at all.  
 
And frankly the same can be said for Matt Barnes.   I am not sure what that guy does wrong - he is the quintessential NBA lunch-pail guy who took a limited skill set, worked hard and carved a credible career out of hard work and hustle.  
 
Regarding the Clips and CP3, I love the guy's game, however his scowl and histrionics are off-putting for me.  I find him to be as bad as Griffin in terms of how he is constantly working the refs.  I know this is smart basketball and he is in no way by himself in terms of guys who lobby the officials the Association.  However to my unscientific eyes, he seems to do it more than most.