2024: The Celtics are going to get destroyed in the finals because they never had a difficult opponent and they haven't been tested.
FWIW, I think that you are weirdly internalizing criticism and analysis of players, at least it seems so when you say that they're called the anti-christ. People universally accept Luka as a top-5 player in the world, even here. Brunson, like top-20, nobody would argue with. People here have very high opinions of both. We just also, like, point out their flaws. Nobody thinks that it's weird when folks were calling out Jaylen's loose handle a couple of years ago, but still admiring his game otherwise. Hell, people still say that about Jaylen even though his turnover rate is quite acceptable for a guy in his role. Pretty much everyone has flaws. Giannis can't shoot, and you can game plan for him in the playoffs, etc. Still great fucking player.
I think people would have talked more about what Luka did leading up to the Finals if the majority of national media (well at least ESPN) didn't pick DAL to beat the Cs in the Finals.
I haven't seen anything I'd call "Brunson hate". Over in the KP thread, they're saying that Brunson wouldn't start for the Celtics, given how we've chosen to play - that White and Jrue are better fits for this team and what we need our guards to do. So while the Knicks swapping Brunson for White would make the Knicks worse, the Celtics swapping White for Brunson would also make the Celtics worse.
There were a lot of takes, including by generally reasonable dudes like Zach Lowe, during the Finals that Tatum was closer to being the 10th best player in the NBA than the 5th best and that divide in talent/impact/whatever between Tatum and Luka was unbridgeable. The analysis on here was never "Luka is a bum", it was more pushing back on that idea, which I don't think is unreasonable. I would say something similar about Brunson, though I haven't seen any real anti Brunson posting. I would say he's a great player, but him being higher in the MVP voting than Tatum last year was a little puzzling.
I’m not sure why that would be such a controversial take. Brunson is the apex version of ‘Lil Zeke/Kemba. That’s a great player. But just not what Boston needs when they have JT/JB. Brunson’s already shown that he’s not nearly as impactful in a role as secondary scorer. White is perfect in the role of secondary scoring two way guard. So he fits perfectly with Boston. But he’d be lost in New York because they’re a team of guys designed to play off of an alpha scorer like Brunson. As a deal it would wreck the Knicks’ offense and weaken Boston’s D. Just not a fit.
I think the Luka sploogefest started partway through the OKC series and never stopped, even after it became clear DAL was overmatched in the finals. I don't dispute at all his excellence as a player. Every player has strengths and weaknesses. His strengths are truly great. My comment was more about how the media gets distracted by shiny objects and loses its footing/perspective.
I’m like 99.8% convinced that there is a some kind of secret notification system on SoSH whenever someone criticizes Luka. The usual suspects show up quicker than Batman to defend his honor.
Sign off on all this. Luka is something like the 4th or 5th best player in basketball, and he has a clear path to be #1 if he can add all the little things, particularly on offense.
Yeah, the analysis heading into the Finals was really out of hand and we shouldn't forget it. So much of it was just "Well the Mavs have the best player so of course they are going to win!" and that was being said by tons of people, not just clickbait grifters and ESPN hotheads.
He's got a point, no one wants to see 3 pointers. That's why Steph Curry has been the least popular player in the league over the last decade.
Nick wright looks like an even less funny Tom Green to me.
There's a difference between seeing one guy do things that nobody really ever did before and seeing nearly half of all field goal attempts be three-pointers. I think a lot of fans like to see the greatest players in the world take lots of different kinds of shots, not just have a long-distance shooting competition.
It's not like the whole league was shooting layups before.
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing. I'm essentially giving the argument for why it's one thing to see Steph to things never seen before, and it's another to see league-wide chucking.
A lot of fans maybe, but not most fans. What people really don't like seeing are MISSED 3 pointers, and that it's being brought up now in conjunction with the Celtics at the top of the league is laughable. I know you know this, but this isn't James Harden leading the league with over 1,000 3PAs and leading the league in PPG while being just 60th in the league in 3P%. Boston led the league in attempts while being 2nd in 3P% and 9th in assists per possession - if people don't enjoy watching that level of offensive execution, they don't like basketball. The critics are acting like Boston just discovered that 3s are 50% more valuable than 2s and believe that the only good shots are behind the arc, but you don't finish at the top of the league in 3P% if you aren't taking good, thoughtful shots. For chrissakes there were people after the Knicks game that claimed the Celtics were just chucking up 3s like crazy in the 4th quarter and going for the record, when at least half of their shots were great looks (open to wide open shots taken by Hauser or Pritchard, two of the best bench shooters in the league). There's no point in justifying or excusing any of it, people are pissy that Boston is on top and want to complain about it. Does anyone believe that if the Mavs had won the title last year (while finishing 2nd in 3PAs/game), we'd be having this same conversation? No.
I'm sure there is some individual preference here, but I for one don't have a problem with lots of 3s and lay-up/dunks rather than the previously heavier diet of post ups and mid-range. I suppose there is some point at which maybe the 3s are over the top, but I am fine with the current style of play.
Right. The Celtics didn't invent this. They've just mastered it as a whole team.
I got no beef with people who miss old fashioned post play, the same way that dudes who love off-tackle runs and FB dives probably hate that the NFL went all passing all of the time or baseball old timers hate three true outcomes offense. But let's face it--it's not a legit argument by this shitbird. If the Lakers or whatever team he's humping were doing what the Celtics were doing, he wouldn't lament the style. He'd call it genius.
I'm not going to dig up the stats, maybe someone has them handy, but didn't the Mavs FEAST in the playoffs off corner 3s... and then the Celtics "magically" prevented them? The point is - if it was that easy, EVERYONE WOULD BE DOING IT.
Yes. E.g., "Dallas came into the Finals second in the playoffs in highest share of total shots being corner three pointers at 13 percent. Through three games in the Finals, that number is a staggering 4.9 percent. Dallas shot five corner threes total (making two) in Game 3, while Boston shot 18, making seven." The Mavericks star power isn’t enough against the Celtics in the NBA Finals
Well we saw this last night with Valanciunas. Bang, bang, bang, back your guy down with power.
Yes. The whole "teams just chuck 3s" discourse is hilarious, because coaches are acutely aware of how valuable open 3s are, especially corner ones, and scheme their asses off to try and prevent them.
True, but Valanciunas is a skilled basketball player. He's a big dude, but he can shoot it a bit and has good touch. He's carved out a pretty nice career in this era because he's not just a Greg Ostertag, someone whose only elite skill was taking up more than average amounts of space.
Not all 3s are created equal (open vs guarded) or look the same:
Basketball isn't a difficult game. HOU with Hakeem basically ran off the same principles as BOS except they got there a slightly different way. BOS uses it talent advantage to get a matchup it can exploit to generate defensive help and then throws the ball all over the place to find the open shot.
I just keep thinking about how incredible Hakeem would be in the modern game.
