National Celtics discourse

[Kliq]

I think there is a lot to be said for the media environment we are in, across the board, but especially with the NBA and especially on social media, that so many analysts are more obsessed with defending their past takes and trying to craft narratives that they often sound incredibly ignorant about the things that are actually happening. People are afraid of being dunked on in social media, or internally by other media people, that they spend too much time defending their previous statements (I think Lowe has been caught up in this, as an example) and stop providing any real analysis.

What the Celtics have done to the Mavericks this series has been simple and predictable--the Celtics have the personnel to match up against the Mavericks iso-heavy offense that revolves around Luka and Kyrie, and the Celtics will be able to exploit the defensive limitations of those two players on offense. There was also predictable shooting regression from Washington and DJJ, and that has basically led to the Celtics being up 3-0 in the series. None of this should really be a shock, and yet it has contrasted with what many "smart" NBA people expected.

Really, this whole situation got out of whack when Minnesota beat Denver, in one of the craziest back-and-forth series we've seen. That set the table for "Minnesota is going to win the title, they just suffocated the champs" which of course, set up Dallas to be the REAL killers, when Minnesota's offense predictably went to shit in the following series and their defense fell off as they were poorly suited to matchup with Dallas. Dallas entered the Finals with the image that they were a super team, because they went through a Western Conference that really wasn't that great to begin with, and lost it's dominant team when Murray got banged up.

The Celtics calmly took care of business in the Eastern Conference, and really, do Jimmy Butler, Donovan Mitchell, or Haliburton playing in every game really change those series that much? The Celtics wouldn't have blitzed over them anyway. Even Giannis staying healthy, that series might have been pretty tough for the Celtics, but the Celtics were far better than the Bucks throughout the entire season and the Bucks lack depth something fierce.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I think it was Bontemps who said on the Hoop Collective last night that the Cs are the most doubted great team in the history of the NBA. They did call out the fact that the majority of ESPN analysts picked DAL was "insane" and speculated that one reason why people couldn't really comprehend how good the Cs were this year is because people keep sticking them with the losses from the previous years, even though this team is much different.

FWIW.

 

[luckiestman]

The Celtics calmly took care of business in the Eastern Conference, and really, do Jimmy Butler, Donovan Mitchell, or Haliburton playing in every game really change those series that much? The Celtics wouldn't have blitzed over them anyway. Even Giannis staying healthy, that series might have been pretty tough for the Celtics, but the Celtics were far better than the Bucks throughout the entire season and the Bucks lack depth something fierce.

Butler, Mitchell, and Haliburton could be on the same team and these glorious Celtics would wax those mofos.

 

[BaseballJones]

Celtics:

Regular season: 64-18 (.780), +11.4 differential
Post season: 15-2 (.882), +10.2 differential

 

[lovegtm]

Denver took less shit for blowing a 20 point lead to lose a series than Boston did for not blowing a 20 point lead to go up 3-0.

 

[lovegtm]

Celtics:

Regular season: 64-18 (.780), +11.4 differential
Post season: 15-2 (.882), +10.2 differential

If anything, the playoffs have shown that their shit (crunchtime offense) works better in the playoffs.

 

[BaseballJones]

If anything, the playoffs have shown that their shit (crunchtime offense) works better in the playoffs.

And, IMO, it shows just how freaking good their top 6 players are. They are playing far more minutes than they did in the regular season, and they're beating a bunch of playoff caliber teams by basically the same margin as they beat everyone else during the regular season.

 

[lovegtm]

And, IMO, it shows just how freaking good their top 6 players are. They are playing far more minutes than they did in the regular season, and they're beating a bunch of playoff caliber teams by basically the same margin as they beat everyone else during the regular season.

We might as well say their top 7 and exclude KP, right? Because they've done this run basically without him.

 

[JCizzle]

Denver took less shit for blowing a 20 point lead to lose a series than Boston did for not blowing a 20 point lead to go up 3-0.

Now that you mention it, this is so true

 

[BaseballJones]

We might as well say their top 7 and exclude KP, right? Because they've done this run basically without him.

Yeah true.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Just so its not all complaining, the KOCs, Rusillos, Lowes, Partnows Timpfs are essentially rendered silly by their attachment to takes but also because stuff like Thinking Basketball exists. Their video on G3 was spectacular, insightful and really didn't editorialize at all. Its real, valuable content.

We don't need good writers who never played the sport at a high level telling us how to think about players and games anymore. That's a 20th century construct. Instead lets get cogent analysis from people who have some experience at the higher levels of the sport.

 

[8slim]

I’m gonna say it… I think NBA analysts might be the dumbest among the four major pro sports. And by “analyst” I mean everyone in the pundit/podcaster/hot take artist/tweeter/blogger/writer realm.

I see sooo much better, and more insightful, commentary here and on other message boards than I do in anything vaguely considered mainstream media.

Most things I see are gossip, nonsense, or narrative driven garbage. It’s breath taking.

 

[Euclis20]

The next Lakers head coach sums the state of things up pretty well:

View: https://twitter.com/Big_Maine100/status/1801353930628337902


Redick has been a fan of the Celtics (or at least most of the Celtics players and staff, particularly Derrick White) for a long time now, so this is no surprise.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

PFT Commenter remixed Windy. And the discourse was elevated further still.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8KoQ72PSnv/?igsh=MTBlZjE4YzMxOA==

 

[TripleOT]

43-14 in the regular season with KP
21-4 without KP
5-1 in the playoffs with KP
10-1 without KP.

Total 48-15 with KP 76.2 winning percentage- a 62 wins season
31-5 without KP 86.1 winning percentage- a 70.6 win season

Boston has a historically great record without Porzingis, winning at a rate that would be the third winningest team in league history. Of course, it doesn’t mean that Boston would have won that many games over the 82 regular season games, and 17 playoff games, but that is ridiculous winning rate with such a big piece of your rotation missing.

 

[m0ckduck]

That's a decently good line though

I don't know. Revolutionary War jokes as applied to Boston sports is like asking why the bags of pretzels on the airplane are so small.

 

[tims4wins]

Denver took less shit for blowing a 20 point lead to lose a series than Boston did for not blowing a 20 point lead to go up 3-0.

Wow, this is exactly right.

Edit: and Denver blew their lead at home.

 

[Reverend]

What do we think all of the near superhuman athletes who were eliminated in the playoffs think about some of the Celtics Had An Easy Road takes? Or, for that matter, players who hear they were or were not supposed to be the winning team but for: reasons?

Whatever happened to: “That’s why they play the games”?

*and that doesn’t even begin to scratch the surface of “team quality” not being linear but match-up based. Sorry reality doesn’t conform to your ex ante theories about it…

 

[Van Everyman]

While its brutal to hear, his season-long criticism of Tatum's shot selection has been fair.

I think it would be fair to say that while Tatum’s pure scoring and shooting numbers have dipped a bit this season it's been way more than offset by him having leveled up most other aspects of his game, including the complementary ones. I’m assuming a big part of this is him having had a full offseason of Mazzula Ball to prepare.

Speaking of narratives, has the worm finally begun to turn on CJM? After getting absolutely killed last season with his timeout usage being the thing everybody latched onto as a symbol of him not being up to the task, it seems most outlets and talking heads are beginning to acknowledge how advanced his schemes and techniques have been this season.

 

[tims4wins]

Speaking of narratives, has the worm finally begun to turn on CJM? After getting absolutely killed last season with his timeout usage being the thing everybody latched onto as a symbol of him not being up to the task, it seems most outlets and talking heads are beginning to acknowledge how advanced his schemes and techniques have been this season.

I've said this before, but I'm old enough to remember when everyone was calling for Spo to be fired and for Reilly to step back into the job. I think we'll look back and laugh at the calls for Joe's head in the same way... soon. It won't happen after they win tonight, because people will say stacked team / easy path. But we'll get there soon enough.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I’m gonna say it… I think NBA analysts might be the dumbest among the four major pro sports. And by “analyst” I mean everyone in the pundit/podcaster/hot take artist/tweeter/blogger/writer realm.

I see sooo much better, and more insightful, commentary here and on other message boards than I do in anything vaguely considered mainstream media.

Most things I see are gossip, nonsense, or narrative driven garbage. It’s breath taking.

You could pick 30 posters from the Port Cellar, stick them in each NBA city as a lead analyst, writer, blogger or whatever role you want to create….and the overall NBA fanbase would immediately become more educated, knowledgeable and understanding of this game and the change would be massive. Am I crazy for truly believing this?

People use the term “copycat leagues” as if it only applies to that certain group. This applies to every learning group whether it be seeing what is effective in one league and mimicking it, how certain players on your team/group handle situations, etc. This can apply to a sales team, politicians, or any group….and it applies to this board too. We learn from each other so freakin much. Now take these NBA beat writers, analysts, and what not….the only thing they learn from another is how to generate clicks not how to truly educate their fanbase. It’s a disservice to the general public that they are learning the NBA from the opinion of many of these people who don’t care about teaching….they only care about clicks. That’s so much of the media today. It’s really sad but I get it. That’s how they are compensated.

 

[lars10]

I don't know. Revolutionary War jokes as applied to Boston sports is like asking why the bags of pretzels on the airplane are so small.

Also… what’s his message? It’s been one dumb tweet after another while the Celts keep winning. It’d be like if Paul said it was 1 if by sea and 2 if by land and kept doubling down when everyone else told him he was wrong. It’s shocking he didn’t try a biblical reference given how much of a martyr complex he has.

 

[Van Everyman]

I've said this before, but I'm old enough to remember when everyone was calling for Spo to be fired and for Reilly to step back into the job. I think we'll look back and laugh at the calls for Joe's head in the same way... soon. It won't happen after they win tonight, because people will say stacked team / easy path. But we'll get there soon enough.

Agreed re. Spo. The smart heads last year all said “let’s give Joe a full season with a staff he hired before making too many judgments.” But it seems to me that perhaps one offshoot of the “IS TATUM REALLY A TOP 6 PLAYER?!?” narrative is that TAKEZ artists are looking for a reason the team is so good and settling on Joe’s schemes.

BTW @tims4wins I’m all for confidence but I think I need you to stop referring to the Celtics sweeping as an inevitability or in the past tense. Nothing—literally nothing—would make me happier. But after the KP injury and all the congratulatory texts I got at about the 9:30 mark in the 4th quarter on Wednesday night, I feel like we need a smidgeon of humility to keep the basketball gods on our side.

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

Have any of these click baiters mentioned that Luka has been awful in the 4th quarter all 3 games even in game 3 when they made the run? If he didn’t foul out, why on earth would anyone rational expect he would get his tired lard ass in shape and stop missing his shots short like he’s been doing all series at the end of the games?

Plus these same asshats refuse to mention he had a very poor offensive game in game 3 except for the first 8 minutes or so. God Awful. Offense, not even taking into account his league worst defense.

 

[tims4wins]

Have any of these click baiters mentioned that Luka has been awful in the 4th quarter all 3 games even in game 3 when they made the run? If he didn’t foul out, why on earth would anyone rational expect he would get his tired lard ass in shape and stop missing his shots short like he’s been doing all series at the end of the games?

Plus these same asshats refuse to mention he had a very poor offensive game in game 3 except for the first 8 minutes or so. God Awful. Offense, not even taking into account his league worst defense.

SAS did call out that Luka is 3-15 with more fouls and turnovers than buckets in the 4th quarter in this series, FWIW.

 

[tims4wins]

Agreed re. Spo. The smart heads last year all said “let’s give Joe a full season with a staff he hired before making too many judgments.” But it seems to me that perhaps one offshoot of the “IS TATUM REALLY A TOP 6 PLAYER?!?” narrative is that TAKEZ artists are looking for a reason the team is so good and settling on Joe’s schemes.

BTW @tims4wins I’m all for confidence but I think I need you to stop referring to the Celtics sweeping as an inevitability or in the past tense. Nothing—literally nothing—would make me happier. But after the KP injury and all the congratulatory texts I got at about the 9:30 mark in the 4th quarter on Wednesday night, I feel like we need a smidgeon of humility to keep the basketball gods on our side.

Fair. I can back off. But just so you know, I am coming from a place not of cockiness, but a place of having so much faith in this group and seeing them just so incredibly locked in and focused. And, I have been speaking this way for longer than just since the game 3 win. IOW, I don't believe that this team can be jinxed. This team is IT. But you are right, anything can happen, so I'll shut up for the next 12 hours.

 

[8slim]

You could pick 30 posters from the Port Cellar, stick them in each NBA city as a lead analyst, writer, blogger or whatever role you want to create….and the overall NBA fanbase would immediately become more educated, knowledgeable and understanding of this game and the change would be massive. Am I crazy for truly believing this?

People use the term “copycat leagues” as if it only applies to that certain group. This applies to every learning group whether it be seeing what is effective in one league and mimicking it, how certain players on your team/group handle situations, etc. This can apply to a sales team, politicians, or any group….and it applies to this board too. We learn from each other so freakin much. Now take these NBA beat writers, analysts, and what not….the only thing they learn from another is how to generate clicks not how to truly educate their fanbase. It’s a disservice to the general public that they are learning the NBA from the opinion of many of these people who don’t care about teaching….they only care about clicks. That’s so much of the media today. It’s really sad but I get it. That’s how they are compensated.

Two things come to mind. First is that it's realllllly hard to be both genuinely insightful and entertaining. And when faced with the choice most people, be they network executives or fans, are going to want the latter.

Second is that it seems a lot of NBA analysis (and all sports analysis, really) is bifurcated into either "hot take machine" or "dreadfully boring advanced stats".

Best, IMHO, is someone who can break down plays, or games, in easy to understand terms. And do so in an engaging way that doesn't tip into statistical minutia. It's hard though.

 

[joe dokes]

I’m gonna say it… I think NBA analysts might be the dumbest among the four major pro sports. And by “analyst” I mean everyone in the pundit/podcaster/hot take artist/tweeter/blogger/writer realm.

I see sooo much better, and more insightful, commentary here and on other message boards than I do in anything vaguely considered mainstream media.

Most things I see are gossip, nonsense, or narrative driven garbage. It’s breath taking.

It reminds me of baseball commentators/observers in the early days of advanced analytics.

Basketball metrics have rendered a lot of (but not all) hoary "truisms" less true and have separated the wheat from the chaff of commentators. Among the old school, the analog observations of JVG and Hubie (and probably a very few others) are generally borne out. Obviously, JJR pays attention to the numbers, in addition to having good instincts anyway.

And then there's the Mark Jacksons and Reggie Millers.

Paging Ken Tremendous....
FIRE REGGIE MILLER!

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

SAS did call out that Luka is 3-15 with more fouls and turnovers than buckets in the 4th quarter in this series, FWIW.

I guess cuz I’ve never listened to him even once for over 10 years I would not know this

 

[tims4wins]

I guess cuz I’ve never listened to him even once for over 10 years I would not know this

Enjoy

Edit: for the record, Luka has 3 field goals, 4 turnovers, and 4 fouls in the 4th quarter this series.

View: https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/40341415

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

Enjoy

View: https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/40341415

Should I break my streak? I’ve got lots of streaks in my life

Had a 15 year shower streak, had a 12 year never work on the weekend streak & I currently have a 19 and a half years clean time streak

 

[benhogan]

I think it would be fair to say that while Tatum’s pure scoring and shooting numbers have dipped a bit this season it's been way more than offset by him having leveled up most other aspects of his game, including the complementary ones. I’m assuming a big part of this is him having had a full offseason of Mazzula Ball to prepare.

Speaking of narratives, has the worm finally begun to turn on CJM? After getting absolutely killed last season with his timeout usage being the thing everybody latched onto as a symbol of him not being up to the task, it seems most outlets and talking heads are beginning to acknowledge how advanced his schemes and techniques have been this season.

Agree, no doubt Tatum is still progressing as a player. As he continues to physically fill out BOTH his ability to finish at the rim + defensive versatility will only broaden. At some point, he will start leaning into a few more C&S attempts and fewer PUs (especially fadeaways), which will boost his shooting efficiency.

As far as CJM, he got thrown into a brutal situation last year with a coaching staff that had one foot out the door (& in Damon Stoudmire's case 2-feet in the middle of the season). Players also felt Coach Ime got a raw deal. Joe wisely altered his timeout usage this season and leaned further into advanced metrics. His bench/rotation/minutes/player use has been spectacular all season long.

 

[lexrageorge]

As far as CJM, he got thrown into a brutal situation last year with a coaching staff that had one foot out the door (& in Damon Stoudmire's case 2-feet in the middle of the season). Players also felt Coach Ime got a raw deal. Joe wisely altered his timeout usage this season and leaned further into advanced metrics. His bench/rotation/minutes/player use has been spectacular all season long.

While the above is accurate, it also understates the degree of difficulty of CJM's job last season, probably by several orders of magnitude.

They had to adjust to Coach Ime the season before, and that took some time (recall that they were at one time 18-21 and staring up at a play-in game spot). Now they were going to have to deal with another major adjustment. Al was (and still is) getting the point of simply wanting to maximize his chances of a ring. They also had 2 young players in Pritchard and Grant that wanted to get paid, and both were coming off playing significant backup minutes for a team that reached the Finals. And he had to integrate Brogdon into the rotation, whose minutes would displace Pritchard's, as well as see if he could find any other role player on the roster ready to step up and earn some minutes. Bad bench minutes killed them against Golden State, and CJM soon identified roles for both Hauser and Kornet.

And he had a bit of volatile mix of returning players that loved Ime and expected to get back to the Finals. Reading between the lines, the Smart/White/Brogdon troika were not always on the same page, but the closest to a blowup was Brogdon's comments during the ECF. Under a lesser coach, things could have blown up spectacularly last season when things got rocky.

Kudos to Joe to getting that group of players to respect him early on, which was going to be far more important longer term than the finer details of timeout usage last season. And using last season as a learning experience.

 

[benhogan]

This guy put together a Media clip show. Kind of funny

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y_NLWJY51w

 

[TripleOT]

While the above is accurate, it also understates the degree of difficulty of CJM's job last season, probably by several orders of magnitude.

They had to adjust to Coach Ime the season before, and that took some time (recall that they were at one time 18-21 and staring up at a play-in game spot). Now they were going to have to deal with another major adjustment. Al was (and still is) getting the point of simply wanting to maximize his chances of a ring. They also had 2 young players in Pritchard and Grant that wanted to get paid, and both were coming off playing significant backup minutes for a team that reached the Finals. And he had to integrate Brogdon into the rotation, whose minutes would displace Pritchard's, as well as see if he could find any other role player on the roster ready to step up and earn some minutes. Bad bench minutes killed them against Golden State, and CJM soon identified roles for both Hauser and Kornet.

And he had a bit of volatile mix of returning players that loved Ime and expected to get back to the Finals. Reading between the lines, the Smart/White/Brogdon troika were not always on the same page, but the closest to a blowup was Brogdon's comments during the ECF. Under a lesser coach, things could have blown up spectacularly last season when things got rocky.

Kudos to Joe to getting that group of players to respect him early on, which was going to be far more important longer term than the finer details of timeout usage last season. And using last season as a learning experience.

I felt that both Smart and Brogdon weren’t fully bought in to Mazzulla and his coaching. There seemed to be a lack of respect. I wasn’t surprised when Brogdon was traded, and was only a bit surprised when Smart was subbed for him in the KP trade.

I don’t miss Brogdon one bit. No surprise that teams get better once he leaves.

 

[8slim]

Agree, no doubt Tatum is still progressing as a player. As he continues to physically fill out BOTH his ability to finish at the rim + defensive versatility will only broaden. At some point, he will start leaning into a few more C&S attempts and fewer PUs (especially fadeaways), which will boost his shooting efficiency.

Regarding the “discourse”, there’s been a playoff-long argument on the Simmons pod where Bill contends that Tatum has more room to grow, while Russillo is adamant that he’s a finished product.

Ryen’s position seems bonkers to me. Most NBA superstars evolve throughout their career. Jordan sure as hell wasn’t the same player in ‘98 as he was in ‘88.

To claim that Tatum cannot address the last couple remaining “holes” in his game, or that a guy who’s 26 won’t see his game meaningfully change is just dumb.

 

[lovegtm]

You could pick 30 posters from the Port Cellar, stick them in each NBA city as a lead analyst, writer, blogger or whatever role you want to create….and the overall NBA fanbase would immediately become more educated, knowledgeable and understanding of this game and the change would be massive. Am I crazy for truly believing this?

People use the term “copycat leagues” as if it only applies to that certain group. This applies to every learning group whether it be seeing what is effective in one league and mimicking it, how certain players on your team/group handle situations, etc. This can apply to a sales team, politicians, or any group….and it applies to this board too. We learn from each other so freakin much. Now take these NBA beat writers, analysts, and what not….the only thing they learn from another is how to generate clicks not how to truly educate their fanbase. It’s a disservice to the general public that they are learning the NBA from the opinion of many of these people who don’t care about teaching….they only care about clicks. That’s so much of the media today. It’s really sad but I get it. That’s how they are compensated.

I think this is right. There's a clear compounding effect wrt basketball knowledge.

 

[Jimbodandy]

You could pick 30 posters from the Port Cellar, stick them in each NBA city as a lead analyst, writer, blogger or whatever role you want to create….and the overall NBA fanbase would immediately become more educated, knowledgeable and understanding of this game and the change would be massive. Am I crazy for truly believing this?

People use the term “copycat leagues” as if it only applies to that certain group. This applies to every learning group whether it be seeing what is effective in one league and mimicking it, how certain players on your team/group handle situations, etc. This can apply to a sales team, politicians, or any group….and it applies to this board too. We learn from each other so freakin much. Now take these NBA beat writers, analysts, and what not….the only thing they learn from another is how to generate clicks not how to truly educate their fanbase. It’s a disservice to the general public that they are learning the NBA from the opinion of many of these people who don’t care about teaching….they only care about clicks. That’s so much of the media today. It’s really sad but I get it. That’s how they are compensated.

Page 22 of this thread is pretty solid, but love this post in particular. 8slim's feedback about entertainment notwithstanding, you're talking about a discussion about understanding the game. I've learned more about the game here than from anyone in the media in the last dozen years or so. The hot takez culture dominates sports conversation in general and hoop worst of all, and nobody learns shit in that environment. The few beacons of light are so hard to find that it's only through the posters here who take the time to search for those golden nuggets, curate it, and link it here that most of us ever even see it. I can't weed through the noise to find the signal, because it's too fucking depressing. I think back to riding the T to school, spending a quarter on the Herald, and reading about last night's games, nevermind the Sunday Globe sports pages. The content was spectacular. I appreciate this place tons for filling that gap.

 

[lovegtm]

Regarding the “discourse”, there’s been a playoff-long argument on the Simmons pod where Bill contends that Tatum has more room to grow, while Russillo is adamant that he’s a finished product.

Ryen’s position seems bonkers to me. Most NBA superstars evolve throughout their career. Jordan sure as hell wasn’t the same player in ‘98 as he was in ‘88.

To claim that Tatum cannot address the last couple remaining “holes” in his game, or that a guy who’s 26 won’t see his game meaningfully change is just dumb.

The reads that Mazzulla was asking both Tatum and Brown to make on the fly in that 3rd and 4th quarter were really subtle/advanced/tough.

There's a lot of growth left just in reading the game and creating these schemes (basically on the fly) to maximize advantages.

 

[benhogan]

Regarding the “discourse”, there’s been a playoff-long argument on the Simmons pod where Bill contends that Tatum has more room to grow, while Russillo is adamant that he’s a finished product.

Ryen’s position seems bonkers to me. Most NBA superstars evolve throughout their career. Jordan sure as hell wasn’t the same player in ‘98 as he was in ‘88.

To claim that Tatum cannot address the last couple remaining “holes” in his game, or that a guy who’s 26 won’t see his game meaningfully change is just dumb.

His work ethic is off the charts. His body could support more muscle which will make him a menace under the boards, move BIGs around defensively, and go through opponents on rim attacks (draw more FTs).

The shooting will improve with slightly better shot selection. I suspect he & Drew Hanlen will focus on refining his stroke this summer.

All are easily achievable for JT. There are probably another half dozen things he'll work on in the lab that will make him better. Tatum is the type of player that could be good into his late 30s.

 

[joe dokes]

This guy put together a Media clip show. Kind of funny

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y_NLWJY51w

That was great.

 

[Jimbodandy]

The reads that Mazzulla was asking both Tatum and Brown to make on the fly in that 3rd and 4th quarter were really subtle/advanced/tough.

There's a lot of growth left just in reading the game and creating these schemes (basically on the fly) to maximize advantages.

Yeah, I'm honestly not sure where Russillo gets off. My wife was watching the game with me and called out Jaylen taking the ball at Doncic in the fourth and creating the conditions for the latter's DQ--"that's smart, he tried to get him to commit that last foul". Of course we don't know what was in Jaylen's head at the time, but this late-20s mental part of the game, working the refs, anticipating your opponent's next move, exploiting it real time...that's the type of mental growth that experience and savvy gives guys. Maybe neither JB or JT learns a brand new skill or adds huge new pieces to their bags at their age, but small adjustments, the BBIQ growth, leadership skills, getting better marginally at this or that (handle, using the offhand to finish, getting a little stronger/faster, etc.)--that shit counts too and it adds up. And guys who have shown a repeated pattern of improvement every year of their careers shouldn't be written off as finished products. Growth curve will certainly slow down, but IMO it's crazy talk to say that either of them is "done" growing. All evidence to date is to the contrary.

 

[TripleOT]

If the Celtics win tonight, they will be the first team in NBA history to ever sweep both the conference finals and the finals

However, the narrative on this team will always be that they were lucky enough to face a bunch of teams in the playoffs that was missing their stars

 

[TomTerrific]

Appreciate you saving me an hour of my time as I can skip the podcast now.

Actually, it's a fairly reasonable and measured podcast if you listen to the whole thing. I think we're getting a little over-attuned to anything that could possibly imply something disrespectful.

Yes, they lead with the fouls thing, but they both conclude that the blocking foul was the right call and the fouling out thing was completely on Luka. I think it's reasonably clear based on Lowe's comments in the pod that he is going down that line (and this was recorded immediately after the game) just to dispose of the "We wuz screwed" narrative before moving onto the rest of the discussion. And the rest of the discussion is pretty good, IMO.

 

[BaseballJones]

If the Celtics win tonight, they will be the first team in NBA history to ever sweep both the conference finals and the finals

However, the narrative on this team will always be that they were lucky enough to face a bunch of teams in the playoffs that was missing their stars

What stars are the Mavs missing?

 

[TripleOT]

What stars are the Mavs missing?

In the run up to the Finals. The excuse for the Mavs will be Luka’s injuries and the refs

 

[BaseballJones]

In the run up to the Finals. The excuse for the Mavs will be Luka’s injuries and the refs

Agreed. All while they forget that Porzingis is in street clothes.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Agreed. All while they forget that Porzingis is in street clothes.

Ready? Wait for it…..

“Yeah but thr Celtics knew what they were getting ahead of time. When they acquired Porzingis they didn’t expect him to be healthy it would only be a bonus if he was.”

Signed,
National Media

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

What stars are the Mavs missing?

Well they're missing Luka.





On Defense.






Try the veal.

 

[lovegtm]

Well they're missing Luka.





On Defense.






Try the veal.

(also any time after the first quarter on offense, but let's not talk about that)