After letting the handball go, we give a dodgy penalty on a scramble. Michael Oliver being Michael Oliver.
MW Oct 8-11: Congest this!
- Thread starter 67YAZ
- Start date
Yeah, same. Especially in the context of the handball from the first half.
Liverpool have been shit this year and that’s taken a lot of my enthusiasm away.
The refereeing, however, is beyond tolerance. This is a game decided by horrific officiating, and I’m just not interested in the league like this. I don’t think any Arsenal fan can walk away from this thinking they deserved three points as it’s been decided.
The refereeing, however, is beyond tolerance. This is a game decided by horrific officiating, and I’m just not interested in the league like this. I don’t think any Arsenal fan can walk away from this thinking they deserved three points as it’s been decided.
Can't really say Liverpool deserved to win this one, but they certainly didn't deserve to lose. Just not their day.
Bah … Arsenal more stylish, Liverpool opportunistic , Ref should have got a yellow for time wasting. Arsenal were marginally better overall and a lucky break on the PEN call. I don’t know how that was a PEN and the handball non call wasn’t.
All that being said Liverpool have been bad all year. They have completely lost their mojo.
All that being said Liverpool have been bad all year. They have completely lost their mojo.
I would prefer the handball rule called the way it was today. It’s point blank I have a lot of sympathy for defenders when the ball is just kicked at him point blank. I get why you guys are mad and I’d want the call too.
The Jesus penalty was a crap call. One of those awful “but there’s some contact” penalties that var can’t overturn too
The Jesus penalty was a crap call. One of those awful “but there’s some contact” penalties that var can’t overturn too
That handball non-call has been pretty consistent this year from what I have seen. I don't really see much of an argument for why it should have been a penalty in this case.
I thought the penalty was soft but Thiago does kick Jesus' leg while he's trying to kick the ball. On balance, I wouldn't give it but its definitely not the worst decision I've ever seen and you're right that its one of those decisions that's never going to be overturned.
IMO, Liverpool were better in the first half but Arsenal were much better in the second half and just better overall. Even taking out the penalty it was like 2 xg for Arsenal to .75 for Liverpool, and only about .15 xg came in the second half. I don't think they had a shot from the 51st to 97th minutes.
Yeah - I haven’t seen xG numbers, but kvetching about the official aside, it would be hard for Liverpool to claim they were the better team today.
The thing is - he had his hand stuck up in the air - so VAR is saying it’s OK for defenders to block crosses with their hand as long as they’re close.
Here’s the replay: https://dubz.co/v/y6k8nd
He’s making himself bigger, blocking the cross. This isn’t a case of ball to hand in a natural position. If this is now okay, it’s a shit precedent as it encourages defenders to use parts of their body to defend that they aren’t legally allowed to use. I haven’t yet heard any take that defends this decision.
He’s making himself bigger, blocking the cross. This isn’t a case of ball to hand in a natural position. If this is now okay, it’s a shit precedent as it encourages defenders to use parts of their body to defend that they aren’t legally allowed to use. I haven’t yet heard any take that defends this decision.
The USA announcers said right away that they thought he was trying to keep his balance as he threw on the brakes rather than enlarging his profile for defensive purposes.
Oh come on, he's not trying to make himself bigger like a keeper. He is trying to move at speed against a shifty player, needs to plant stop, and instinctively let his arms move away from his body for balance. That's what people do when they're moving at speed and want to stop without falling over.
The idea that he intentionally put his hand there to block the cross and create a wall is just ludicrous. If that's the case he is the dumbest player in the world as this will get called a pen sometimes (even if it generally has not this year from the games I have seen).
Calling the handball doesn’t require intent. If you’re looking at it for a possible card, then sure - intent plays. But the effect is that he’s bigger.
He made his body bigger, regardless of why. He stopped a cross with an illegal part of the body. I genuinely don’t see what the argument can be. If that happened to be a shot on goal, it would have been a red card, too.
“Mike Riley, Managing Director of Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), the referees’ body, said “an arm extended away from the body makes that body bigger, in an unnatural position.
If the ball strikes that arm, particularly if it is blocking a shot on goal, there is a greater likelihood we will penalise that”
“Mike Riley, Managing Director of Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), the referees’ body, said “an arm extended away from the body makes that body bigger, in an unnatural position.
If the ball strikes that arm, particularly if it is blocking a shot on goal, there is a greater likelihood we will penalise that”
This is my favorite Everton team in a long time, maybe ever. Iwobi, gone from the doghouse to week in week out MOTM, curls in a sweet strike at 5’, and although Utd are showing some fight back as I type the Toffees are flying all over the pitch and Goodison is rocking.
Yes, but its not clearly an unnatural position when you need your arms to be away from your body at times to prevent yourself from falling on your face.
The distance to where the ball is struck is also explicitly part of the calculus in these decisions. In this case, its a good call. The ball is fired at him from a yard away and its not like he is reaching up in a crazy way to block it.
IMO, its a good rule application when they're not calling these kind of situations pens (which is also what I have seen in other cases this year, these handballs at very short range just haven't been called). Nothing Gabriel does is egregious given his movement and the distance to the ball. We shouldn't want referees converting a not-particularly-threatening situation into a .8 xg penalty shot just for reasons.
I think Liverpool have much more reason to be aggrieved about the penalty Arsenal received.
I fail to see see why that should matter. He kind of did a little hop to set himself and his hand came up. He didn’t have to do that. He was consciously keeping them down before that.
When it comes to VAR I'm much more annoyed at the 3 second look at Saka on the initial pass that lead to goal #1, and even in that quick look he looked off. At least take a good look at it given how it's usually called.
I can’t believe Everton defend this deep. At some points we have all 10 outfielders over the halfway line comfortably.
I don’t know why. We were vigorous at the start. For some reason we just stopped playing football. There’s Ronaldo to go up 2-1. We’ve just looked terrible, that’s by far our worst half this seadon
Casemiro looks like he forgot how to play for 40 minutes then picks iwobis pocket and sends Ronaldo through for his first of the season.
Isn't that photo at bottom right taken from basically a second before he actually kicked Jesus? I mean.. he did make contact with his ankle.. he didn't get ball.. enough that Gabriel couldn't maintain possession. Why is it a ridiculous decision?
View: https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1579162497688358912
View: https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1579209174097231872?s=20&t=pzhJJrA9-BUW_l5O-Ih50w
Arsenal were very good, especially in the second half. But there was some luck there in terms of penalties for against.
Sorry, possession? When did Gabriel ever have possession? It was a cross that two players went for and barely clipped boots on. If you want to give a foul on the sniper who apparently shot Gabriel at the same instant, sure.
Liverpool didn’t play well but they were on the losing end of the important refereeing decisions today as well. Top left is 0.8xg, top right is a goal and bottom left is Trent missing major time with an ankle injury. Bottom right was obviously a goal. So whatever combination you want to count, it’s tough luck on important refereeing decisions today.
Why does possession have to come into it? Gabriel got clipped on the back of the ankle there… just because they’re both going for the ball doesn’t mean the defender can’t be called when he doesn’t get ball.
I didn’t see the rest of the game for other calls.. but that one particular call seems 50/50.
Because you said the foul was enough that Gabriel couldn’t maintain possession. You brought possession into it. Oliver let every 50/50 go uncalled all game until then. All fans want is consistency and we’re not getting it at all this season with the refereeing.
Ah.. you are correct, my apologies. My thinking was that if he had been allowed a more normal touch that he would have gained possession and probably gotten a shot off.. but the extra clip in the heel kept that from happening.
I find officiating in the EPL to be semi-infuriating.. it's pretty awful in general. I think the hard part is fouls in the box verse not.. I'll have to watch the rest of the game as I didn't see it yet.