Much like Newman, the Sox are not “Ready to deliver”– The 2025 Offseason News (& rumors?) Thread

PrometheusWakefield

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Between Rosenthal's ridiculous over the top op-ed and this post today about Alonso looking for a 3 year deal I think it's clear that we're now at the point in the offseason where the guys remaining aren't getting what they hoped.

https://twitter.com/JimDuquetteGM/status/1877715029790712099

Hopeful sign for Bregman. I doubt he wants to play for Toronto or Detroit, neither of whom look like competitive franchises over the next few years. The venom we see from Rosenthal (who seems to be urging Boston fans to riot if Bregman/Boras don't get their way) looks to me like frustration that Bregman is down to one option. Although I can't believe the Yankees aren't in on this guy with what they've got right now at third base.

He should have taken what Houston offered.
 
joe dokes

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PrometheusWakefield said:
Between Rosenthal's ridiculous over the top op-ed and this post today about Alonso looking for a 3 year deal I think it's clear that we're now at the point in the offseason where the guys remaining aren't getting what they hoped.

https://twitter.com/JimDuquetteGM/status/1877715029790712099

Hopeful sign for Bregman. I doubt he wants to play for Toronto or Detroit, neither of whom look like competitive franchises over the next few years. The venom we see from Rosenthal (who seems to be urging Boston fans to riot if Bregman/Boras don't get their way) looks to me like frustration that Bregman is down to one option. Although I can't believe the Yankees aren't in on this guy with what they've got right now at third base.

He should have taken what Houston offered.
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Did Rosenthal make predictions about Bregman's FA journey. Perhaps this is just a case of Rosenthal digging in his heels: "I wasn't wrong; teams are being stupid."
 
SouthernBoSox

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bosockboy said:
The Carrabis of St Louis threw this out today. And he’s hinting of something up with Herrera moving. Who would do this?

View: https://twitter.com/cardinals_live/status/1877820399708188976?s=46
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Herrera is super interesting. His batted ball profile is incredible. He can frame and block. Throwing needs work. 24 years old with 4 years remaining. Arb in 2026.

His bat is real though and because he can catch he’s definitely incredible valuable.

Would be a pretty bold move and one I think would be pretty exciting and ultimately make the team better in 2025 and beyond.
 
Cassvt2023

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I'm not sure if going from not yet 25 yr old Tristan Casas to almost 34 yr old Nolan Arenado makes the Sox offense any better in 2025, speaking nothing about '26 and beyond.
 
SouthernBoSox

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Cassvt2023 said:
I'm not sure if going from not yet 25 yr old Tristan Casas to almost 34 yr old Nolan Arenado makes the Sox offense any better in 2025, speaking nothing about '26 and beyond.
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The upgrade of Wong to Herrera would more than make up for it. You’d also drastically improve defense at third; catcher, and most likely first.
 
moondog80

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SouthernBoSox said:
The upgrade of Wong to Herrera would more than make up for it. You’d also drastically improve defense at third; catcher, and most likely first.
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Plus you are getting a really good reliever, albiet for just one year.

What is the Cardinals' plan? Are they trying to contend and rebuild at the same time? That is, do they want Casas with two pre-arb years already burned?
 
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burstnbloom

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Cassvt2023 said:
I'm not sure if going from not yet 25 yr old Tristan Casas to almost 34 yr old Nolan Arenado makes the Sox offense any better in 2025, speaking nothing about '26 and beyond.
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Raw offense, maybe not, but the deal comes with one of the most elite relievers in the league, a 24 year old 2+ WAR 2 way catcher and the largest possible defensive upgrade at 3b going from the least valuable 3b to the most. Casas is a lot to give up and Crawford has value, but 4+ years of well above average production at catcher is a large upgrade.
 
Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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That's a baseball trade. Not 100% sure I'd do it because of how much I like Casas, but it's a baseball trade and I'd certainly understand and ultimately be ok with it from the "have to give to get" perspective.


This is just my take, but I think Breslow's line in the sand for dealing Casas (and NOT getting back a young, cost controlled, potential top of the rotation starting pitcher) is that he has to be getting out from a bad contract (either Story or Yoshida). Which I personally kind of agree with.

If the rumors out of Seattle are legit - or at least if I read them correctly, I'd guess it went.

1) Boston approaches Seattle about Casas for G,K,W,M. Seattle says no.
2) Seattle offers Castillo for Casas. Breslow laughs for 15 minutes until DiPoto hangs up the phone.
3) Breslow calls DiPoto back and says "what about Castillo and Prospect X for Casas and you take back Yoshida?"
4) DiPoto turns that down because he overplays his hand.
5) Breslow goes on to sign Walker Buehler and Seattle is left holding the bag.

Again, I could be very wrong, but I think the only way Casas goes anywhere is for another version of Crochet or if someone will give up something still useful but in a "fit for fit" swap that allows Breslow to get out from under the Story or Yoshida deal.
 
Yelling At Clouds

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PrometheusWakefield said:
Hopeful sign for Bregman. I doubt he wants to play for Toronto or Detroit, neither of whom look like competitive franchises over the next few years.
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Pretty strong disagree that Detroit won't be competitive for the next couple of years, they made the playoffs this year and have some young players on the rise to go with a legit superstar. Add in the Hinch factor, and I'd be seriously considering it if I were Alex.

What I'm not super-clear on is why nobody wants to take Toronto's money. Does everyone just assume they'll be terrible once the Nepo Babies leave?
 
bosox1534

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Posts like these make me really doubt a Casas trade is even remotely in the works. Even if there was a slight chance of him getting dealt, don’t you think you’d have someone else go on these PR things? It would look pretty bad in my eyes to have Casas go and interact with the community like this only to turn around and trade him. Seems like the media is really overblowing how available he is.
 
RedOctober3829

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bosox1534 said:

Posts like these make me really doubt a Casas trade is even remotely in the works. Even if there was a slight chance of him getting dealt, don’t you think you’d have someone else go on these PR things? It would look pretty bad in my eyes to have Casas go and interact with the community like this only to turn around and trade him. Seems like the media is really overblowing how available he is.
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He could absolutely be doing these outings and they could trade him tomorrow. Has no bearing on what happens in the business of baseball.
 
loneredseat

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SouthernBoSox said:
Herrera is super interesting. His batted ball profile is incredible. He can frame and block. Throwing needs work. 24 years old with 4 years remaining. Arb in 2026.

His bat is real though and because he can catch he’s definitely incredible valuable.

Would be a pretty bold move and one I think would be pretty exciting and ultimately make the team better in 2025 and beyond.
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Baseball Reference shows 11 games played (by Herrera) in 2022, 13 in 2023, 72 in 2024, and a free agent in 2030. Is this correct? Do they mean the beginning of the 2030 season meaning 5 years of control?
 
moondog80

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loneredseat said:
Baseball Reference shows 11 games played (by Herrera) in 2022, 13 in 2023, 72 in 2024, and a free agent in 2030. Is this correct? Do they mean the beginning of the 2030 season meaning 5 years of control?
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That means he is a fee agent for the year 2030 and beyond -- under club control through 2029. We would get 5 seasons of him.

It confuses me too, don't feel bad.
 
chrisfont9

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Yelling At Clouds said:
Pretty strong disagree that Detroit won't be competitive for the next couple of years, they made the playoffs this year and have some young players on the rise to go with a legit superstar. Add in the Hinch factor, and I'd be seriously considering it if I were Alex.

What I'm not super-clear on is why nobody wants to take Toronto's money. Does everyone just assume they'll be terrible once the Nepo Babies leave?
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That and the taxes and having to clear immigration every time you hit/return from the road? That last one, not sure if the Jays have a special system set up but visiting teams often talk about this being exhausting.
 
Yelling At Clouds

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chrisfont9 said:
That and the taxes and having to clear immigration every time you hit/return from the road? That last one, not sure if the Jays have a special system set up but visiting teams often talk about this being exhausting.
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Those aren't unique to this year as far as I know, though, and I don't remember them having this much trouble signing FAs in the past. Maybe it's those issues in combination with the murky outlook (and the recent last-place finish).
 
Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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bosox1534 said:
Seems like the media is really overblowing how available he is.
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I agree on this point. The media IS overblowing how available Casas is. Would Breslow deal him in a very specific circumstance, yes, of course. Is he calling up other GMs and just asking them what they’d offer for Casas. No chance.

If they were actively trying to move him, no, I doubt he’d be at an event like that. If they were close to moving him, I also doubt they’d have asked him to attend. But his being there also does not mean he wouldn’t be traded this weekend if Breslow got exactly what he was looking for.
 
bosox1534

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Big Papi's Mango Salsa said:
I agree on this point. The media IS overblowing how available Casas is. Would Breslow deal him in a very specific circumstance, yes, of course. Is he calling up other GMs and just asking them what they’d offer for Casas. No chance.

If they were actively trying to move him, no, I doubt he’d be at an event like that. If they were close to moving him, I also doubt they’d have asked him to attend. But his being there also does not mean he wouldn’t be traded this weekend if Breslow got exactly what he was looking for.
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That’s fair, but every player could be traded at any time if the team receives exactly what they wanted, so I’m not sure that means Casas is any more likely to be moved than any other player in the league.
 
Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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bosox1534 said:
That’s fair, but every player could be traded at any time if the team receives exactly what they wanted, so I’m not sure that means Casas is any more likely to be moved than any other player in the league.
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Maybe. But, just for an example…

I‘d bet other GMs in trade talks (Chicago) asked about Roman Anthony, and were told flat out he wasn’t available.

I‘d bet other GMs (Seattle, Pit maybe StL) asked on Casas and know roughly what it would take, and likely even had some conversations surrounding the framework of a deal.

I think that is a small but important distinction.
 
joe dokes

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burstnbloom said:
the largest possible defensive upgrade at 3b going from the least valuable 3b to the most.
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Possibly accompanied by a gigantic and intolerable offensive dropoff. I dont want Bregman, but he probably has some good offensive years left. Arenado probably does not. No speed no power, 315 OBP. No thanks.
 
Fishy1

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SouthernBoSox said:
View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1878121098916548920?s=46


I couldn’t agree with this tweet more. Cementing Rafaela in center really makes the roster construction challenging. And I just don’t think he’s good enough of a player to justify that.
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It's almost certainly what will happen. They used his versatility last year and they'll use it this year, no doubt, but unless he comes out absolutely raking he'll lose his job to Anthony. Because having a guy with a 3% BB rate and an OBP of .275 is going to be a drag on your offense, even in the 9 hole.
 
pjheff

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SouthernBoSox said:
I couldn’t agree with this tweet more. Cementing Rafaela in center really makes the roster construction challenging. And I just don’t think he’s good enough of a player to justify that.
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The delta between Rafaela and Duran defensively in CF — if there is one — is infinitesimal compared to the one between Rafaela and the alternatives (like Anthony) offensively.
 
YTF

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simplicio

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SouthernBoSox said:
View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1878121098916548920?s=46


I couldn’t agree with this tweet more. Cementing Rafaela in center really makes the roster construction challenging. And I just don’t think he’s good enough of a player to justify that.
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The info from Breslow that they see Ceddanne as regular CF is interesting because he's saying that with full knowledge of how well Duran played there. There's a good conversation to be had about why that is: do they grade defense differently? Do they project or have reason to believe in an improvement to his offense? Was Breslow's statement a posture for the sake of ongoing trade negotiations?

What Stats is doing is just presuming they're incompetent instead. To me, that's a lazy and dull take.
 
A

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nvalvo said:
They also have neither an incumbent DH nor an incumbent 1B. This looks like a potential matchup. (They did tell Alcántara he wasn’t being moved, though.)

So, let’s say we can do something like Alcántara and reliever Calvin Faucher for Casas, Crawford, Yoshida, and Hamilton. That checks out in BTV and makes some sense for both sides.

Then I guess we sign Bregman for 5 years and move Devers to DH. Do you then ink Alonso to a short high AAV deal?

This would give us:

CF Duran L
3B Bregman R
DH Devers L
1B Alonso R
RF Abreu L
SS Story R
LF Anthony L
C Wong/Narvaez R
2B Grissom R

With Romy, Rafaela and Refsnyder on the bench. Campbell first call up in case of injury to basically anyone.

With an *insane* six man rotation: Alcántara Crochet Houck Bello Buehler Giolito.

And a very deep bullpen of Faucher Hendriks Slaten Chapman Whitlock Guerrero Wilson Bernardino

It’s likely an expensive team depending on what the FAs cost, but it does look like it projects better than the Yankees.
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That lineup has me salivating especially thinking with they could do in Fenway!

But my head is telling me it will never even come close to reality
 
Dewey'sCannon

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I'm not convinced that they NEED to add to the offense - I'd rather they spend their money on the bullpen (Tanner Scott). But if they do (primarily to add RH power) here's a plausible direction they could take:

Trade Abreu to CHC for Suzuki and put him in LF, with Duran in CF and either Rafaela or Anthony (whenever he's ready) in RF.

If you can include Yoshida in the deal with the Cubs (either by adding $ or a player, like Wincowski or a mid-level prospect, thenthis would open the door to sign Bregman. My preference would be a three-year deal, with opt-outs and options for years 4 and 5 that vest based on 150 GP.

If they could pull that off, the ;lineup look like this:

Duran - CF
Bregman - 3B
Devers - DH
Casas - 1B
Suzuki - LF
Anthony - RF
Story - SS
Wong - C
Campbell/Grissom - 2B

I think that lineup would score a lot of runs
 
SouthernBoSox

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bosockboy said:
View: https://twitter.com/cardinals_live/status/1878212441370247258?s=46
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I’m positive the Cardinals and Red Sox have talked. I’m also positive the Red Sox will only do a deal if it’s a home run deal.

The Cardinals have zero leverage.
  1. The player has a full NTC
  2. Has already blocked a trade
  3. Has said he wants to play for Boston
  4. Does not fill a position of need for Boston
  5. Has a contract under water
The Cardinals GM stated his main goal of the offseason was to move Arenado and free up money and roster space. They are screwed here.

If I’m Boston I’d take Arenado but it would be more about an acquisition of Herrera than Arenado. I’d say we will give you Wong and Richard Fitts and you’ll give us Herrera + 15mm and we will do your the favor of TAKING Arenado off your hands.

And yea that’s an unfair trade but you’re complete stuck. We don’t need the trade.
 
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