Much like Newman, the Sox are not “Ready to deliver”– The 2025 Offseason News (& rumors?) Thread

[jteders1]

Can I ask a question, and I'm sure it's been addressed, but why can't this team just sign Alonso (who appears amicable to a shorter deal), play him at DH and move Yoshida to LF. The lineup would be stellar, and if Anthony forces his way in, you can move Yoshida at the deadline.

CF - Duran
3B - Devers
DH - Alonso
1B - Casas
SS - Story
RF - Abreu
2B - Grissom / Campbell
LF - Yoshi
C - Wong

That's a pretty even lineup with plus hitting up and down it. Basically, are we overthinking this? Yes the defense in LF, 3B and 1B is questionable, but it looks pretty good up the middle. Catcher is clearly in need of an upgrade, but that as been discussed ad nauseam on this board, it's tough to see where that comes from.

 

[moondog80]

Can I ask a question, and I'm sure it's been addressed, but why can't this team just sign Alonso (who appears amicable to a shorter deal), play him at DH and move Yoshida to LF. The lineup would be stellar, and if Anthony forces his way in, you can move Yoshida at the deadline.

CF - Duran
3B - Devers
DH - Alonso
1B - Casas
SS - Story
RF - Abreu
2B - Grissom / Campbell
LF - Yoshi
C - Wong

That's a pretty even lineup with plus hitting up and down it. Basically, are we overthinking this? Yes the defense in LF, 3B and 1B is questionable, but it looks pretty good up the middle. Catcher is clearly in need of an upgrade, but that as been discussed ad nauseam on this board, it's tough to see where that comes from.

Because Yoshida sucks in the field, and also adding Alonso without any subtractions makes it harder work Anthony and Campbell into the lineup.

Alonso would make some sense if they moved Yoshida or Casas (or both). But with Boras calling the shots, he might not settle for the typical "3 years with an opt out" deal until late February, and that's a long time to hang in limbo for something that *might* happen. It's not like when they signed JDM in late February and just moved him into the more or less open DH slot. Acquiring Alonso would mean other significant moves to follow.

 

[Max Power]

There are so many more options if Yoshida can play the field with his repaired shoulder. I know his range is terrible, but at Fenway it barely matters. And if high strikeout and ground ball pitchers are going, it doesn't matter that much on the road, either.

 

[PhabPhour20]

I wonder if he’d accept a stack of Kevin Mortons in a trade?

This is funny, but Kevin is a good guy. My 12-year old takes pitching lessons with him.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

Because Yoshida sucks in the field, and also adding Alonso without any subtractions makes it harder work Anthony and Campbell into the lineup.

Alonso would make some sense if they moved Yoshida or Casas (or both). But with Boras calling the shots, he might not settle for the typical "3 years with an opt out" deal until late February, and that's a long time to hang in limbo for something that *might* happen. It's not like when they signed JDM in late February and just moved him into the more or less open DH slot. Acquiring Alonso would mean other significant moves to follow.

This.

But for a little more context, Yoshida was horrible in the field before his shoulder injury too.

If one wants to use DRS, in 2023 he was one of the worst LF in the game, with a -4 in only about 700ip. FG gave his defensive rating a -18.5 (for whatever that's worth). Baseball Savant backs this up as well with horrible range, bad "arm value" (whatever the heck that is) and horrible speed from 2023. From any metric one wants to use, he's horrendous defensively, and this was before the shoulder injury as well.

I agree that Alonso as a DH would be one of many ideas for the 2025 Red Sox that I'd be totally on board with, but it's not going to happen.

 

[IpswichSox]

We aren't wildly speculating hard enough for you already?

Ha, I just meant that I thought this was a new, meaningful development.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

Ha, I just meant that I thought this was a new, meaningful development.

I think it's totally consistent with what we've heard from Devers any time he addresses the roster over the past few years. He's been begging for them to add MLB talent to the team. Is it a good idea or not, I'm not saying that at all. But every time Devers has spoken (or Tweeted or whatever), it's been about the relative "clarity" of the shortcomings of the roster and wanting to add proven MLB talent to it. This tracks.

 

[20Ks]

I think it's totally consistent with what we've heard from Devers any time he addresses the roster over the past few years. He's been begging for them to add MLB talent to the team. Is it a good idea or not, I'm not saying that at all. But every time Devers has spoken (or Tweeted or whatever), it's been about the relative "clarity" of the shortcomings of the roster and wanting to add proven MLB talent to it. This tracks.

So Devers watched a minute and a half clip on twitter IN ENGLISH of a couple of muppets talking with some wierd cuts, words on the screen, and a pretty indistinguishable argument with those words (for me) and then processed it beyond "WTF are they talking about,?"and hit like. Or he (or whomever runs his account) scrolled, saw video of he, Arenado, and Bregman playing baseball, and hit like and kept scrolling.

 

[StuckOnYouk]

This is funny, but Kevin is a good guy. My 12-year old takes pitching lessons with him.

His son played for UConn - cant recall if last year was his final year. Hell of a ballplayer for us.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

So Devers watched a minute and a half clip on twitter IN ENGLISH of a couple of muppets talking with some wierd cuts, words on the screen, and a pretty indistinguishable argument with those words (for me) and then processed it beyond "WTF are they talking about,?"and hit like. Or he (or whomever runs his account) scrolled, saw video of he, Arenado, and Bregman playing baseball, and hit like and kept scrolling.

On it's own, means nothing.

Taken in context with his stance from :

2023 trade deadline https://nesn.com/2023/07/red-soxs-rafael-devers-has-strong-stance-on-trade-deadline-needs/

2024 team https://www.mlb.com/news/rafael-devers-on-state-of-2024-red-sox-roster

It tracks that he wants the team to add more MLB talent and would probably at least not chase down Craig Breslow and Alex Cora with a folding chair and a crazy gleam in his eye if it meant him moving off 3b.

 

[NickEsasky]

Not sure why the English thing matters. Devers understands English perfectly and speaks it well. He chooses to do interviews in Spanish through the interpreter to avoid miscommunications or misunderstandings.

 

[20Ks]

On it's own, means nothing.

Taken in context with his stance from :

2023 trade deadline https://nesn.com/2023/07/red-soxs-rafael-devers-has-strong-stance-on-trade-deadline-needs/

2024 team https://www.mlb.com/news/rafael-devers-on-state-of-2024-red-sox-roster

It tracks that he wants the team to add more MLB talent and would probably at least not chase down Craig Breslow and Alex Cora with a folding chair and a crazy gleam in his eye if it meant him moving off 3b.

Sure he has said that in the past, its good for his image and he might even believe it. I'm contending him liking that tweet is very unlikely to mean anything.

 

[20Ks]

Not sure why the English thing matters. Devers understands English perfectly and speaks it well. He chooses to do interviews in Spanish through the interpreter to avoid miscommunications or misunderstandings.

Did you watch the clip? Its like Clockwork Orange.

 

[chrisfont9]

So Devers watched a minute and a half clip on twitter IN ENGLISH of a couple of muppets talking with some wierd cuts, words on the screen, and a pretty indistinguishable argument with those words (for me) and then processed it beyond "WTF are they talking about,?"and hit like. Or he (or whomever runs his account) scrolled, saw video of he, Arenado, and Bregman playing baseball, and hit like and kept scrolling.

Devers has previously hinted at wanting them to add guys, he might like the idea of Bregman in some capacity. Or he liked it ironically.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

Sure he has said that in the past, its good for his image and he might even believe it. I'm contending him liking that tweet is very unlikely to mean anything.

That's fair. But many posters are so quick to point out what his agent, or the FO, says as gospel that Devers couldn't possibly even remotely consider moving off 3b that submitting contradictory (and equally circumstantial) evidence should be fair game.

I'm fine with consistency. It all matters equally, or none of it matters at all. (I tend to believe the latter.)

 

[Chad Finn]

Seconded ... although it's Beyond the Sixth Game

According to this @Chad Finn story, the Rice/Komminsk rumor was in a notes column:

https://www.boston.com/sports/commentary/2020/06/18/boston-sports-worst-almost-trades/

It was Gammons, so only he would know the ratio of reality to speculation there.

By the way, he's working on another book. Every once in a while I get an email from him saying something like, "Can you find a Globe magazine story I wrote on Frank Robinson managing in Puerto Rico in 1973?" Always makes my day to get those requests.

 

[20Ks]

That's fair. But many posters are so quick to point out what his agent, or the FO, says as gospel that Devers couldn't possibly even remotely consider moving off 3b that submitting contradictory (and equally circumstantial) evidence should be fair game.

I'm fine with consistency. It all matters equally, or none of it matters at all. (I tend to believe the latter.)

Rafael Devers is a $300 Million business. With a team who's number 1 priority is realizing that $300M. Him "wanting" to play 3rd is whats best for the team right now. It might not be by the time spring training comes, next year or 3 years from now. Him preferring one thing or another is fine, as long as it doesn't effect Devers corp's top priority. I sincerely doubt he was making a statement by liking a goofy tweet.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

It was Gammons, so only he would know the ratio of reality to speculation there.

By the way, he's working on another book. Every once in a while I get an email from him saying something like, "Can you find a Globe magazine story I wrote on Frank Robinson managing in Puerto Rico in 1973?" Always makes my day to get those requests.

Did he say what it's going to be about?

Because even if it's just an omnibus of all of his Sunday Notes column, I'd pay top dollar for it.

 

[simplicio]

View: https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/1876766722151059733

Make sure everyone stretches those hamstrings this time!

 

[BringBackMo]

That's fair. But many posters are so quick to point out what his agent, or the FO, says as gospel that Devers couldn't possibly even remotely consider moving off 3b that submitting contradictory (and equally circumstantial) evidence should be fair game.

I'm fine with consistency. It all matters equally, or none of it matters at all. (I tend to believe the latter.)

Here is what Devers' agent said.

“He is a third baseman, and he will continue to play third base and work hard to get better at it. That’s his position, that’s what he likes to play, and that’s what he will be playing. At least in the near future, that’s where he will be. Down the road, it’s hard to say. But as of right now, in the near future, he is a third baseman.”

I think it's OK to draw a distinction between a statement like that from a player's agent and the player clicking "like" on some social media video. I don't agree that either those two things matter equally or they don't matter at all.

 

[Heating up in the bullpen]

You said Tony Soprano never had the makings of a varsity athlete. Pretty uncalled for IMO.

For the win!

 

[buttons]

Not sure why you put "Sure thing" in quotation marks and said it over and over again in response to "perfomance probability measure with varying ranges" and "higher likelihood of hitting upper end of expectations for a longer time" quantifying probabilities is literally understanding something is not a sure thing.

Here is what Devers' agent said.

I think it's OK to draw a distinction between a statement like that from a player's agent and the player clicking "like" on some social media video. I don't agree that either those two things matter equally or they don't matter at all.

Devers just “liked” a post placing Bregman at 3rd base and him as DH

 

[BringBackMo]

Devers just “liked” a post placing Bregman at 3rd base and him as DH

Correct.

 

[simplicio]

Another post, or is this conversation now a loop?

 

[NickEsasky]

Another post, or is this conversation now a loop?

He liked the Spanish translation of the video too.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjöld]

Devers is signed until 2033.

I really don't care what his agent thinks or where he wants to play.

If the best configuration for the team is another player at 3B and him being DH then that's what Breslow should do.

It would probably be better for his health and mindset to focus on hitting anyway.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

Here is what Devers' agent said.

I think it's OK to draw a distinction between a statement like that from a player's agent and the player clicking "like" on some social media video. I don't agree that either those two things matter equally or they don't matter at all.

From NESN:
https://nesn.com/2022/11/xander-bogaerts-agent-scott-boras-shoots-down-rumor-red-sox/

Speaking of which, The Athletic's Ken Rosenthal reported Tuesday, citing major league sources, that San Diego Padres general manager A.J. Preller recently asked Boras whether Bogaerts would be willing to play infield positions other than shortstop. But Boras denied that report, as well.

"Xander is playing shortstop," Boras told Rosenthal.

From Mass Live
“No one is going to Xander Bogaerts and asking him to play anything other than shortstop,” Boras said.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/11/xander-bogaerts-rumors-scott-boras-says-red-sox-free-agents-interest-all-at-ss-report.html



One baseball season later, Bogaerts is at 2b.

For the record, I'm 99.9% certain that the Red Sox lineup against RHPs for the next three seasons (injuries aside) will be Casas at 1b, Devers at 3b and Yoshida at DH. I just don't think it's because Devers refuses to move off 3b.

 

[Chad Finn]

Did he say what it's going to be about?

Because even if it's just an omnibus of all of his Sunday Notes column, I'd pay top dollar for it.

Seems like a memoir of his baseball life. The requests are varied. Last one was for Tiant's 2-hitter over Toronto to force the '78 playoff.

 

[joe dokes]

Seems like a memoir of his baseball life. The requests are varied. Last one was for Tiant's 2-hitter over Toronto to force the '78 playoff.

Sons of Rick Waits (For One Day Only)

(The period after the massacre and before the playoff could make its own book).

 

[Chad Finn]

Sons of Rick Waits (For One Day Only)

(The period after the massacre and before the playoff could make its own book).

I always argue that they didn't choke! Ripping off eight straight wins to make the playoffs after it all seemed to have caved in on them showed remarkable resilience.

Still think Zimmer sucked, though.

 

[nayrbrey]

I always argue that they didn't choke! Ripping off eight straight wins to make the playoffs after it all seemed to have caved in on them showed remarkable resilience.

Still think Zimmer sucked, though.

Much like the 03 team, the 78 team got within a win of going to the World Series despite of their manager.
The boxscore of that Tiant game is a great look back.
Brohammer!

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS197810010.shtml

 

[nighthob]

If the Sox give Anthony and Campbell 500+ big leagues at bats each this year, I don’t think they’ll equal 81 wins. They might but I think they’ll take a step backwards.

You must have been a joy 50 years ago telling people the Red Sox were going nowhere if they gave 500 ABs to Rice and Lynn.

 

[RS2004foreever]

Much like the 03 team, the 78 team got within a win of going to the World Series despite of their manager.
The boxscore of that Tiant game is a great look back.
Brohammer!

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS197810010.shtml

The year I became a Red Sox fan. The close of the '78 season was incredibly dramatic.

 

[NickEsasky]

You must have been a joy 50 years ago telling people the Red Sox were going nowhere if they gave 500 ABs to Rice and Lynn.

Remind me of how many World Series they won with Rice and Lynn

 

[BringBackMo]

From NESN:
https://nesn.com/2022/11/xander-bogaerts-agent-scott-boras-shoots-down-rumor-red-sox/

Speaking of which, The Athletic's Ken Rosenthal reported Tuesday, citing major league sources, that San Diego Padres general manager A.J. Preller recently asked Boras whether Bogaerts would be willing to play infield positions other than shortstop. But Boras denied that report, as well.

"Xander is playing shortstop," Boras told Rosenthal.

From Mass Live
“No one is going to Xander Bogaerts and asking him to play anything other than shortstop,” Boras said.
https://www.masslive.com/redsox/2022/11/xander-bogaerts-rumors-scott-boras-says-red-sox-free-agents-interest-all-at-ss-report.html



One baseball season later, Bogaerts is at 2b.

For the record, I'm 99.9% certain that the Red Sox lineup against RHPs for the next three seasons (injuries aside) will be Casas at 1b, Devers at 3b and Yoshida at DH. I just don't think it's because Devers refuses to move off 3b.

I am *not* saying that Rafael Devers will never move off third. What I am saying is that it's silly, in my mind, to compare a clear and unambiguous statement from a player's agent with that player liking a video on social media. I do not agree that either they matter equally or they don't matter at all. That is the only thing I was reacting to.

Maybe you will get your oft-stated wish. Maybe the Sox will sign Bregman, and Devers will happily move to first or DH. I personally do not want Bregman on a deal for five-plus years, and I don't want him at second. But it doesn't matter what I want. It also doesn't matter what I believe will happen, because I have no special insight into what the Sox are planning to do, or how Devers will react to it. I'm simply saying that it's not nothing when your best and highest-paid player reacts to speculation of a position change by having his agent declare that it will not happen.

 

[chrisfont9]

Seems like a memoir of his baseball life. The requests are varied. Last one was for Tiant's 2-hitter over Toronto to force the '78 playoff.

You may not know but does it seem like it could be out this year? I don’t want to be standing outside my bookstore for nothing.

 

[pk1627]

All good. The Red Sox haven't made me miserable since Game 7 of the ALCS in 2003, but it's ok if Ras thinks I am.

Why no misery 2010-2015? Only one year in playoffs, many last place finishes, miserable finish in 2011 worse than anything the last 2 years (and led to Bobby V).

You were happy because they signed FA’s (some of the worst). Or did one very unexpected title go a long way?

 

[chrisfont9]

Remind me of how many World Series they won with Rice and Lynn

Whether or not Rice could be counted on to stay healthy was a hot topic on the Sons of Pete Runnels newsletter.

 

[PrometheusWakefield]

Much like the 03 team, the 78 team got within a win of going to the World Series despite of their manager.
The boxscore of that Tiant game is a great look back.
Brohammer!

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS197810010.shtml

Crazy that they had .294 OBP Rick Burleson leading off with Fred Lynn hitting sixth with a .380 OBP.

People didn't really understand baseball in 1978.

 

[nighthob]

Remind me of how many World Series they won with Rice and Lynn

I mean the fact that you didn’t even enjoy the ‘75 Sox toppling MLB’s reigning dynasty and getting within one egregiously awful call of beating a 108 win juggernaut is telling.

 

[NickEsasky]

Why no misery 2010-2015? Only one year in playoffs, many last place finishes, miserable finish in 2011 worse than anything the last 2 years (and led to Bobby V).

You were happy because they signed FA’s (some of the worst). Or did one very unexpected title go a long way?

Mostly because they won in 04. It doesn't mean I haven't been frustrated with the team since then but 03 was misery.

 

[NickEsasky]

I mean the fact that you didn’t even enjoy the ‘75 Sox toppling MLB’s reigning dynasty and getting within one egregiously awful call of beating a 108 win juggernaut is telling.

Well I wasn't alive.

 

[SuperDieHard]

Crazy that they had .294 OBP Rick Burleson leading off with Fred Lynn hitting sixth with a .380 OBP.

People didn't really understand baseball in 1978.

Must’ve been a down year for rooster- his batting average was over 290 the two years before…should they have moved him down in the lineup that year or let him ride based on the past two years……brings up the old question of whether a player is really his body of work or his most recent year’s numbers…what they’re presently debating about Bregman…

 

[dhappy42]

I mean the fact that you didn’t even enjoy the ‘75 Sox toppling MLB’s reigning dynasty and getting within one egregiously awful call of beating a 108 win juggernaut is telling.

Too soon.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRw2_KvHcPk

 

[Norm Siebern]

I always argue that they didn't choke! Ripping off eight straight wins to make the playoffs after it all seemed to have caved in on them showed remarkable resilience.

Still think Zimmer sucked, though.

+1

I always wondered if Torrez should have/could have started against the Blue Jay that Sunday, saving Tiant for the possible playoff on Monday. Yes, i know that they HAD to win on Sunday against Toronto, and that is why Tiant pitched; but it was Toronto in their second year of existence. If the Red Sox could not trust Torrez against that, then how could they have trusted him against NY for the division title? Just one of those little what if games to play in the mind.

 

[chrisfont9]

Must’ve been a down year for rooster- his batting average was over 290 the two years before…should they have moved him down in the lineup that year or let him ride based on the past two years……brings up the old question of whether a player is really his body of work or his most recent year’s numbers…what they’re presently debating about Bregman…

Darrell Johnson wasn’t into advanced metrics like OB%

 

[chrisfont9]

Well I wasn't alive.

It was basically 1986: omg … Omg… OMGGGG— wait, fuck

 

[StuckOnYouk]

How have they not done a 30 for 30 on the 1978 season? Or maybe they have and im spacing out

 

[jteders1]

Because Yoshida sucks in the field, and also adding Alonso without any subtractions makes it harder work Anthony and Campbell into the lineup.

Alonso would make some sense if they moved Yoshida or Casas (or both). But with Boras calling the shots, he might not settle for the typical "3 years with an opt out" deal until late February, and that's a long time to hang in limbo for something that *might* happen. It's not like when they signed JDM in late February and just moved him into the more or less open DH slot. Acquiring Alonso would mean other significant moves to follow.

But isn't Fenway's left field exactly where you want someone with a poor glove and a limited range? Is he any worse than Manny? In addition, it makes it easy to slowly bring up Anthony. Maybe you're lucky and Yoshida rocoups some of his value and you can move him at the deadline and eat less salary. Roman Anthony isn't likely to hit better than Alonso or Yoshi, even if he turns out great, it's unlikely he'll match their production in year one.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

You must have been a joy 50 years ago telling people the Red Sox were going nowhere if they gave 500 ABs to Rice and Lynn.

Yeah. No one tends to listen to six-month-olds. But what are you going to do?

Perhaps that's what I was crying about most, not that I was hungry or had poo-poo in my diapy.

But I mean Rice was 22 in '75 with four years (436 games) in the minor leagues, Lynn was 23 with two years (177 games) in the minors and three at USC. Anthony is 20 with three years in the minors (245 games) and Campbell is 22 with two years (137 games) in the minors and two (I think?) at Georgia Tech.

I mean, it's kinda close but also not really. I'd say that Rice was definitely ready and Lynn was too due to the amount of games they played from ages 18-22/23.