Much like Newman, the Sox are not “Ready to deliver”– The 2025 Offseason News (& rumors?) Thread

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Please quote where a poster said they were going to be hitting right out of the shoot…. Or be a team savior?

Teams turn into consistent contenders one of two ways- spending at the highest margins. The Sox aren’t there. They simply won’t be. Not my money- whatever… it’s clear that they won’t outspend 4-5 other teams.
The other way is to consistently develop and graduate talent to the ML roster- and when things look good- spend smartly to compliment that core.
The Sox have been in a weird position the past 4-5 seasons, not really developing top prospects but also not spending smartly (other conversation to be had here obviously).
They’re right on the brink of having a young, affordable and highly talented team and people here are looking to trade Casas… sign bad contracts and block prospects until when??? They’re hitting 1200 OPS in AAA?
Campbell and Anthony need to be seen and be given some time at the ML. I think Anthony on opening day, and Campbell after a month or two in AAA playing 3B and 1B

About a month ago Fishy (I believe it was him, I could be wrong) said that Campbell and Anthony were going to post 5.0 WAR this season based on their unprecedented minor league seasons.

I’m mentioned that Braves legend Brad Komminsk put up similar numbers over an entire AAA season (not three weeks) and he was a bust. Shit happens.

I’m not looking for this back and forth (you can if you have the time IDC).

Edit: I misread what you wrote and I’m changing what I originally wrote. If the Sox lineup was better and offered protection that Youkilis got in 2005, Pedroia got in 2007 and Ellsbury got in 2008; then yes, one or both can learn their craft in the Majors and not worry about contributing.

But since it’s not, they can learn a bit more in the minors.

You're kidding, right? Of course, we want our top prospects to become Hall of Famers, but that's very rare. For example, do the Sox have any HoFers right now? 2 All-star games is pretty good, I think.

Also, "chute", not "shoot".

Gregg Jeffries was a good player. But when Gregg Jeffries was a rookie he was routinely predicted as the next Mickey Mantle. He was going to be THE key player in the late 80s/early 90a Mets dynasty.

And it wasn’t just Beckett Baseball blowing up his spot, I can recall Sports Illustrated, Sporting News and Sport Magazine writing cover stories on the “Player of the 90s”. He wasn’t. He was a good player with a solid bat who bounced around to a half dozen teams.

MLB is littered with guys like this, Scott Cooper is also a two-time All Star.

As far as anyone on this roster (and I’ll include last year’s too) being in the Hall of Fame, if we exclude Mickey Gasper maybe Jansen has a very outside shot and perhaps Devers. This is grasping at straws and I wouldn’t bet on either of them.

 

[kazuneko]

What about a catcher? I don't know who but I'd give up Casas for a catcher I thought was going to be a significant upgrade over Wong and is under control for several years.

Who is that catcher? He’d have to be damn good to be worth Casas.

 

[burstnbloom]

But it didn’t. His hard hit rate last year was his highest…since, well ever. His EV highest since 2019. He just stopped walking.

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/alex-bregman-608324

BIS disagrees. So i dunno what to think ha

 

[nvalvo]

So….hope? And if not we’re on to 2026?

Real talk: yes?

There are improvements that could be made (catching, relief), but 2025’s team should be playoff contenders with what’s in house already—and in a much more plausible way than they were in 2024, where everything needed to break right.

This edition looks likely to be a team that should be better in the second half, given its combination of youthful upside on the offensive side and the improvements to the pitching depth. None of the starting pitchers should be on innings limits, either.

So this looks to me like a team that needs to hang in there early and let the young players find their footing before taking off. With a little luck, that’s enough for a playoff spot with a very imposing SP1 you’d hate to face in a game one.

But the depth is just so much better. Story’s injury really hurt our chances last year; this year, we’d just call up Mayer. If Yoshida flops, we jettison him at the deadline and give his roster spot to Anthony. If Grissom scuffles, there’s Campbell.

Add at the deadline.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I'll never forget the guy at a card show in the early 90s who had stacks and stacks of Aaron Sele Red Sox Topps rookie cards that he was selling, probably at a ridiculous price, wonder if he ever sold them all

I wonder if he’d accept a stack of Kevin Mortons in a trade?

 

[Auger34]

About a month ago Fishy (I believe it was him, I could be wrong) said that Campbell and Anthony were going to post 5.0 WAR this season based on their unprecedented minor league seasons.

I’m mentioned that Braves legend Brad Komminsk put up similar numbers over an entire AAA season (not three weeks) and he was a bust. Shit happens.

This is right but I think it might have only been about Campbell? But yeah you have the general gist right

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

This is right but I think it might have only been about Campbell? But yeah you have the general gist right

I couldn’t remember exactly which one he was talking about but I knew it was one of them.

Lots of stuff have happened over the last 30 days.

 

[NickEsasky]

Or, as was obviously my point, every team in every sport needs to hope for some luck--even if it's just staying healthy--in order to win.



Sure.

But not all question marks are hopium.

Well that’s very different than “We hope these four young players hold down 2 positions. We hope the starters are enough this year and do not burn out the bullpen. We hope these reclamation projects work out, we hope our SS can stay healthy for five minutes, we hope Giolito and other previously injured pitchers we signed come back strong, we hope Crawford stops giving up home runs at a Wasdinian rate, etc”

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

About a month ago Fishy (I believe it was him, I could be wrong) said that Campbell and Anthony were going to post 5.0 WAR this season based on their unprecedented minor league seasons.

I’m mentioned that Braves legend Brad Komminsk put up similar numbers over an entire AAA season (not three weeks) and he was a bust. Shit happens.

I’m not looking for this back and forth (you can if you have the time IDC).

Edit: I misread what you wrote and I’m changing what I originally wrote. If the Sox lineup was better and offered protection that Youkilis got in 2005, Pedroia got in 2007 and Ellsbury got in 2008; then yes, one or both can learn their craft in the Majors and not worry about contributing.

But since it’s not, they can learn a bit more in the minors.



Gregg Jeffries was a good player. But when Gregg Jeffries was a rookie he was routinely predicted as the next Mickey Mantle. He was going to be THE key player in the late 80s/early 90a Mets dynasty.

And it wasn’t just Beckett Baseball blowing up his spot, I can recall Sports Illustrated, Sporting News and Sport Magazine writing cover stories on the “Player of the 90s”. He wasn’t. He was a good player with a solid bat who bounced around to a half dozen teams.

MLB is littered with guys like this, Scott Cooper is also a two-time All Star.

As far as anyone on this roster (and I’ll include last year’s too) being in the Hall of Fame, if we exclude Mickey Gasper maybe Jansen has a very outside shot and perhaps Devers. This is grasping at straws and I wouldn’t bet on either of them.

I’d like to see Fishy’s post…
But everyone gets the high likelihood that the Big 3 all totally shit the bed.
But you kinda have to take a chance to find out…. And it’s really the only long term way to do it. Henry’s not signing Crochet yo $27.5 M for 7 years, Vlad for $40M per year for 10 years. Having Bregman for $30M and Pete F’in Alonso for $28M.
Luckily he’s smarter than that.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

All of these happened except the last. His HH rate declined and was the lowest of his career. Bregman's wRC+ has gone from 137 to 126 to 118 over the last three years. Hi wOBA has dropped from .358, .351, .331. His pull % has dropped for 4 straight years. His run value vs Fastballs 15, 11, -2.

This is a player in clear decline.

I think it’s important to note Bregman’s wRC+ in 2020 was 120 (for whatever value one wants to ascribe to that year) then 114 in ‘21, then the aforementioned 137, 126 and 118.

Nobody that wants Bregman thinks he’s going to be a 130 wRC+ player just because that is what he did in the 2nd half of last year. To disregard a larger relevant sample of multiple seasons and cite one half season would be crazy talk. But I think assuming the 120ish wRC+ he averaged between 2020, 2021 (tossing out his best of the 5 in 2022), 2023 and 2024 with excellent defense seems plausible enough for his age 31-34 seasons.

He’s not going to end up in Boston, so I just hope he doesn’t end up on a team in the AL.

 

[20Ks]

Mark my words, we're making a big mistake!
View: https://youtu.be/TGpWcIN1P30?si=MidGZE2qoFRBQRiR&t=580

What name do you think he posts under here?

 

[scobie88]

Can I interest you in some more?

I have an "investment box" of 50 Carlos Quintana 1989 DonRuss rated rookies you may be interested in!!!

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

As far as anyone on this roster (and I’ll include last year’s too) being in the Hall of Fame, if we exclude Mickey Gasper maybe Jansen has a very outside shot and perhaps Devers. This is grasping at straws and I wouldn’t bet on either of them.

This is a side discussion, but Jansen is going to retire third all-time in saves, so he’s probably in. Devers has 200 HRs at age 28, putting him in decent position to eventually reach 500, which would get him in as well. (It's a tangent to a tangent, but we tend to weirdly ignore the circumstances of the 2020 season in these discussions, too - you can't assume health, but Kenley probably "should" already be closer to if not ahead of Lee Smith on the leaderboard and Devers "should" be at like 220-225. Probably future Hall voters will be able to account for the "missing" numbers better in the future.)

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I’d like to see Fishy’s post…
But everyone gets the high likelihood that the Big 3 all totally shit the bed.
But you kinda have to take a chance to find out…. And it’s really the only long term way to do it. Henry’s not signing Crochet yo $27.5 M for 7 years, Vlad for $40M per year for 10 years. Having Bregman for $30M and Pete F’in Alonso for $28M.
Luckily he’s smarter than that.

It’s in mid December, you can look for it.

If the Sox give Anthony and Campbell 500+ big leagues at bats each this year, I don’t think they’ll equal 81 wins. They might but I think they’ll take a step backwards.

Whether that pays dividends in 26 or 27 is debatable. Maybe a trial by fire is what steels them into being major league stars. Maybe it saps their confidence and they wash out in three years.

We don’t know and we can speculate all night long. But if they’re going to play the kids, the chances are it’s going to be another year of missing the playoffs. I may be missing something* but I can’t think of two rookies being inserted into an average/ below average lineup and the team making the playoffs.

* it wouldn’t shock me if there was, but I’m not coming up with one off the top of my head.

I’m excited about the Sox future, I truly am, but I’m also bored of watching middling clubs stumbling through July and August due to fading players who aren’t good/healthy enough to last a full season or good players who can’t carry a club for two months.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Jansen is only at 21.9 bWAR; Lee Smith finished at 28.9. ~400 innings difference between the two. A few more good years would obviously narrow that gap a bit. Jansen will be an interesting case; I’d argue that Wagner, K-Rod, Franco, Joe Nathan, maybe even Papelbon, are just as worthy but KJ will have more saves.

 

[Rasputin]

Well that’s very different than “We hope these four young players hold down 2 positions. We hope the starters are enough this year and do not burn out the bullpen. We hope these reclamation projects work out, we hope our SS can stay healthy for five minutes, we hope Giolito and other previously injured pitchers we signed come back strong, we hope Crawford stops giving up home runs at a Wasdinian rate, etc”

Because obviously teams in the late stages of rebuilding are supposed to have all the answers everywhere.

I don’t understand why so many people let baseball turn them into miserable bastards.

This team looks to be pretty good, play a fun brand of baseball, and one that’s introducing some exciting young talent. And all you can do is piss and moan that things aren’t perfect.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

This is a side discussion, but Jansen is going to retire third all-time in saves, so he’s probably in. Devers has 200 HRs at age 28, putting him in decent position to eventually reach 500, which would get him in as well. (It's a tangent to a tangent, but we tend to weirdly ignore the circumstances of the 2020 season in these discussions, too - you can't assume health, but Kenley probably "should" already be closer to if not ahead of Lee Smith on the leaderboard and Devers "should" be at like 220-225. Probably future Hall voters will be able to account for the "missing" numbers better in the future.)

I am not against this post at all. I was purposely underselling Devers and Jansen because I’m an unabashed Big Hall guy I understand that not everyone feels that way.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Jansen is only at 21.9 bWAR; Lee Smith finished at 28.9. ~400 innings difference between the two. A few more good years would obviously narrow that gap a bit. Jansen will be an interesting case; I’d argue that Wagner, K-Rod, Franco, Joe Nathan, maybe even Papelbon, are just as worthy but KJ will have more saves.

To be clear, I wouldn't put any of those guys in, including Jansen. I was a "maybe" on Hoffman. But I don't have a vote.

 

[NickEsasky]

Because obviously teams in the late stages of rebuilding are supposed to have all the answers everywhere.

I don’t understand why so many people let baseball turn them into miserable bastards.

This team looks to be pretty good, play a fun brand of baseball, and one that’s introducing some exciting young talent. And all you can do is piss and moan that things aren’t perfect.

Yeah I’m such an entitled asshole for wanting more than one playoff run in the last six seasons from one of the highest revenue teams in the league with the highest ticket prices. Not sure what’s fun about terrible defense, shitty bullpens that break down, not making the playoffs, and waiting for prospects.

 

[BigSoxFan]

It’s in mid December, you can look for it.

If the Sox give Anthony and Campbell 500+ big leagues at bats each this year, I don’t think they’ll equal 81 wins. They might but I think they’ll take a step backwards.

Whether that pays dividends in 26 or 27 is debatable. Maybe a trial by fire is what steels them into being major league stars. Maybe it saps their confidence and they wash out in three years.

We don’t know and we can speculate all night long. But if they’re going to play the kids, the chances are it’s going to be another year of missing the playoffs. I may be missing something* but I can’t think of two rookies being inserted into an average/ below average lineup and the team making the playoffs.

* it wouldn’t shock me if there was, but I’m not coming up with one off the top of my head.

I’m excited about the Sox future, I truly am, but I’m also bored of watching middling clubs stumbling through July and August due to fading players who aren’t good/healthy enough to last a full season or good players who can’t carry a club for two months.

If the Sox get healthy and productive seasons from Story and Casas and materially better pitching, I think it’s possible, IMO. Obviously, big question marks at this point but there is a path there, I think. It’s also possible that the rookies’ struggles, if/when they happen, don’t come at the same time.

 

[Auger34]

Because obviously teams in the late stages of rebuilding are supposed to have all the answers everywhere.

I don’t understand why so many people let baseball turn them into miserable bastards.

This team looks to be pretty good, play a fun brand of baseball, and one that’s introducing some exciting young talent. And all you can do is piss and moan that things aren’t perfect.

Man, this is incredibly condescending and pretty shitty overall. His post isn’t even that miserable in the first place

 

[chawson]

No one is talking about rookies being under pressure.

I’m talking about a major theme from last offseason set in motion by Cotillo’s concern troll report about “pressure” on Anthony, Mayer and Teel, about which you and others discussed throughout this thread here.

Well that’s very different than “We hope these four young players hold down 2 positions. We hope the starters are enough this year and do not burn out the bullpen. We hope these reclamation projects work out, we hope our SS can stay healthy for five minutes, we hope Giolito and other previously injured pitchers we signed come back strong, we hope Crawford stops giving up home runs at a Wasdinian rate, etc”

This seems weird. What do you want, us — Red Sox fans — to do? I assume that the team is working to keep Story healthy, that Bailey and co. are working on Crawford’s pitch mix, are working on a development program for Buehler and Sandoval. Do you think that they are crossing their fingers and hoping these guys will figure it out by Opening Day?

If we count prospects to deliver right out of the gate and they flop we're looking at another lost season.

Again, who is the “we” here? But broadly, what alternative do you propose? We’re not talking about handing the 2B job to Eric Sogard. We’re talking about giving it to a guy that a ton of disinterested analysts and scouts agree is an extremely high caliber prospect, one who appears just about ready for the big leagues by measures that have been honed within the sport for the last 150 years.

There’s no undue “hope” in this scenario that doesn’t also apply to acquiring a 31-year-old Alex Bregman to do that job instead of Campbell.

 

[scottyno]

It’s in mid December, you can look for it.

If the Sox give Anthony and Campbell 500+ big leagues at bats each this year, I don’t think they’ll equal 81 wins. They might but I think they’ll take a step backwards.

If they get 500 ABs compared to 2024 it'll be replacing the dregs that they had at 2b and Rafaela, who was fine, but nothing special, that's a pretty low bar to equal, ignoring that the pitching should be much better.

That's ignoring that if they're really bad they aren't going to get 500+ each anyway

 

[moondog80]

I’m mentioned that Braves legend Brad Komminsk put up similar numbers over an entire AAA season (not three weeks) and he was a bust. Shit happens.

Wikipedia says that in 1984 the Braves turned down a trade for Jim Rice because the Red Sox asked for Komminsk. I have no idea if that's true or not (the source is a Washington Post article behind a paywall), it's the first time I've heard that.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Wikipedia says that in 1984 the Braves turned down a trade for Jim Rice because the Red Sox asked for Komminsk. I have no idea if that's true or not (the source is a Washington Post article behind a paywall), it's the first time I've heard that.

I think, I’m not 100% sure though, that Gammons wrote about this rumor in “Beyond Game 7”, but it’s been about a decade since I read that book.

If anyone hasn’t read it, I strongly suggest you do. It’s a great book on an under reported—but fascinating—era of the Sox.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I think, I’m not 100% sure though, that Gammons wrote about this rumor in “Beyond Game 7”, but it’s been about a decade since I read that book.

If anyone hasn’t read it, I strongly suggest you do. It’s a great book on an under reported—but fascinating—era of the Sox.

Seconded ... although it's Beyond the Sixth Game

According to this @Chad Finn story, the Rice/Komminsk rumor was in a notes column:

Nov. 18, 1984: “What the Red Sox originally intended to do was determine if they could sign Jim Rice by Thanksgiving. If they couldn’t, they planned to trade him to the highest bidder at the winter meetings, dreaming of a package of, say, Brad Komminsk and Steve Bedrosian from Atlanta or Mookie Wilson, Randy Myers, and maybe even Jesse Orosco from the Mets. Or Dave Winfield.”

https://www.boston.com/sports/commentary/2020/06/18/boston-sports-worst-almost-trades/

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Trading Rice for Mookie and Orosco may have changed history. Wow .

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Seconded ... although it's Beyond the Sixth Game

According to this @Chad Finn story, the Rice/Komminsk rumor was in a notes column:

https://www.boston.com/sports/commentary/2020/06/18/boston-sports-worst-almost-trades/

“Beyond the Sixth Game”, of course. Thanks for the edit.

And future Cy Young award winner Bedrock coming home, what a story!

 

[E5 Yaz]

Trading Rice for Mookie and Orosco may have changed history. Wow .

Another Mookie trade to lament

 

[moondog80]

Seconded ... although it's Beyond the Sixth Game

According to this @Chad Finn story, the Rice/Komminsk rumor was in a notes column:

https://www.boston.com/sports/commentary/2020/06/18/boston-sports-worst-almost-trades/

That doesn't say that the trade was actually offered (and turned down).

Komminsk sucked in 1984, OPS+ of 62 in 334 PA. Rice regressed a little and as it turned out only had once decent year and one very good year left, but nobody knew that at the time. I guess I'm a bit skeptical that post-hype Komminsk was a sticking point in a trade for Rice in the postseason of 1984.

 

[E5 Yaz]

That doesn't say that the trade was actually offered (and turned down).

Who are you going to believe ... wikipedia or @Chad Finn ?

 

[Yo La Tengo]

It’s in mid December, you can look for it.

If the Sox give Anthony and Campbell 500+ big leagues at bats each this year, I don’t think they’ll equal 81 wins. They might but I think they’ll take a step backwards.

Whether that pays dividends in 26 or 27 is debatable. Maybe a trial by fire is what steels them into being major league stars. Maybe it saps their confidence and they wash out in three years.

We don’t know and we can speculate all night long. But if they’re going to play the kids, the chances are it’s going to be another year of missing the playoffs. I may be missing something* but I can’t think of two rookies being inserted into an average/ below average lineup and the team making the playoffs.

* it wouldn’t shock me if there was, but I’m not coming up with one off the top of my head.

I’m excited about the Sox future, I truly am, but I’m also bored of watching middling clubs stumbling through July and August due to fading players who aren’t good/healthy enough to last a full season or good players who can’t carry a club for two months.

Anthony and Campbell shouldn't get 500 ABs next year because they should be starting the year in AAA. Grissom and Rafaela should start the year at 2B and CF and then, as summer approaches, injuries and performance dictates who plays where and what happens pre trade deadline.

As for your question about inserting rookies into below average lineups, the Sox lineup was above average last year and has key contributors returning in addition to whichever players end up taking over at 2B and CF/LF. Off the top of my head, similar team construction seen recently with the Diamondbacks (Carroll, Thomas, Moreno) and Rangers (Carter, Langford, Jung) in 2023. Pena and McCormick on the Astros in 2022 vs. Bohm and Stott on the Phillies. Schwarber and Soler on the Cubs world series team. How about Ellsbury and Pedroia in 2007?

 

[RedOctober3829]

Anthony and Campbell shouldn't get 500 ABs next year because they should be starting the year in AAA. Grissom and Rafaela should start the year at 2B and CF and then, as summer approaches, injuries and performance dictates who plays where and what happens pre trade deadline.

As for your question about inserting rookies into below average lineups, the Sox lineup was above average last year and has key contributors returning in addition to whichever players end up taking over at 2B and CF/LF. Off the top of my head, similar team construction seen recently with the Diamondbacks (Carroll, Thomas, Moreno) and Rangers (Carter, Langford, Jung) in 2023. Pena and McCormick on the Astros in 2022 vs. Bohm and Stott on the Phillies. Schwarber and Soler on the Cubs world series team. How about Ellsbury and Pedroia in 2007?

The Rangers had Marcus Semien, Corey Seager, and Adolis Garcia to surround the rookies with. Wyatt Langford didn’t come up until last year. Evan Carter only was there the last month plus the playoffs. Jung did have a good year though. I don’t think the 2025 Sox lineup is nearly as good as that Rangers one to support multiple rookies and still be good enough to be a playoff team.

 

[Fishy1]

I think Campbell and Anthony are going to produce 10 fWAR a piece, and Jedixson Paez will be the closer on the World Series winning team!! And Trevor Story will hit 30 home runs!!!

This place is very silly sometimes. Anybody else want to make up something for me to have said a month ago?

 

[Yo La Tengo]

The Rangers had Marcus Semien, Corey Seager, and Adolis Garcia to surround the rookies with. Wyatt Langford didn’t come up until last year. Evan Carter only was there the last month plus the playoffs. Jung did have a good year though. I don’t think the 2025 Sox lineup is nearly as good as that Rangers one to support multiple rookies and still be good enough to be a playoff team.

Clearly I'm not a Rangers fan. Scratch Langford, but Carter and Jung were huge in the playoffs, and I am hoping that Anthony and/or Campbell won't be promoted until the end of the summer. And if those guys are in AAA to start the season, there won't be any rookies in the lineup (I think Grissom lost rookie eligibility already, and he will certainly have lots to prove).
Both Duran and Devers had a better OPS+ last year than Semien or Garcia had in 2023. If healthy, I see Duran, Devers, and Casas providing the production to protect the younger players.

 

[GB5]

Culling together a few thoughts here.

Why do the RS seem so aggressive to move Casas. What is the onfield reasons? Is it injuries. Why do I have a feeling that it’s more to do with the old school hard ass baseball guys(Cora) having no patience for the yoga/napping/painting nails/ becoming in game media superstar before he has proved it on the field, type of situation. If that’s the case it’s bad business by the RS.

I haven’t seen any rumors on teams being interested in Pivetta. Is it possible the RS want to see him signed by another team before they move on Bregman so they can Wash out the draft picks more or less?

 

[Yo La Tengo]

We don’t know and we can speculate all night long. But if they’re going to play the kids, the chances are it’s going to be another year of missing the playoffs. I may be missing something* but I can’t think of two rookies being inserted into an average/ below average lineup and the team making the playoffs.

* it wouldn’t shock me if there was, but I’m not coming up with one off the top of my head.

Thinking more about the idea of two rookies joining a subpar offense and making the playoffs in the context of the 2007 Red Sox. I don't think that Grissom, Rafaela, Campbell, Anthony, Mayer, Hamilton will have the impact that Pedroia and Ellsbury had on the Sox 2007 team. But I don't think any of those players need to play at that level for the 2025 Sox team to make the playoffs.

Looking at the transition from 2006 to 2007 compared to the shift from 2024 to this year, I'd argue that last year's lineup was better than than the 2006 offense and the 2025 team needs only modest contributions from those young players this year.

2006 stat leaders (massive seasons from Manny and Ortiz with only two other players with an OPS+ over 100, team OPS+ of 98):



2007 stat leaders (Another huge season from Papi, but great contributions from the rest of the lineup, with six other players with an OPS over 100 and Ellsbury coming on in the playoffs)


2024 stat leaders (five returning players with an OPS+ over 100, team OPS+ of 104, with Casas and Grissom/Campbell poised to provide huge improvements over last year's 1B and 2B)

 

[DeadlySplitter]

View: https://twitter.com/Steve_Perrault/status/1876873517909590122

 

[chrisfont9]

I think Campbell and Anthony are going to produce 10 fWAR a piece, and Jedixson Paez will be the closer on the World Series winning team!! And Trevor Story will hit 30 home runs!!!

This place is very silly sometimes. Anybody else want to make up something for me to have said a month ago?

You said Tony Soprano never had the makings of a varsity athlete. Pretty uncalled for IMO.

 

[Eagle3]

I may be missing something* but I can’t think of two rookies being inserted into an average/ below average lineup and the team making the playoffs.

* it wouldn’t shock me if there was, but I’m not coming up with one off the top of my head.

Granted, it's 50 years ago, but Jim Rice and Fred Lynn in 1975

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Granted, it's 50 years ago, but Jim Rice and Fred Lynn in 1975

Fair example. Do want to point out that both those guys did get a cup of coffee at the end of 1974 (Lynn was outstanding, posting a 1.188 OPS and 0.7 WAR in 15 games). Campbell and Anthony barely had a cup of coffee at AAA last year, so it's not unreasonable to have doubts about the level of impact they'll have in 2025. Personally, I think they'll both be up and contributing by the end of the year but I'm hesitant to throw them into the lineup for day one.

The hedge against them busting certainly doesn't need to be expensive acquisitions though. Starting the season with Grissom/Hamilton at 2B and Rafaela in CF (Duran in LF) is a more than reasonable plan that still allows the team the flexibility to ease Campbell and Anthony in when they prove ready. And if all goes perfectly*, and they have too many guys for too few spots, that gives them capital for the trade deadline to address other weaknesses.

* nothing ever goes perfectly

 

[Tokyo Sox]

The Tigers just did it a couple months ago.

 

[IpswichSox]

View: https://twitter.com/Steve_Perrault/status/1876873517909590122

Shouldn't this be getting more attention here (if it's true)? Maybe something was lost in translation for Devers or he's got a bro operating his account and we shouldn't read much into it. But otherwise, this is materially different than what his agent, Breslow and Cora have been saying all winter, which was, "Devers is going to be at 3B."

If Bregman is signed and Devers moves to DH, instead of 1B, the resulting roster "problem" becomes easier to correct -- just trade and subsidize Yoshida for whatever you need to, even if it means waiting until spring training to prove he's healthy and wait for other teams to experience injuries (or maybe we'll have injuries). There would be no need to trade Casas and play Devers at a position he's never played before. That still leaves a competition at 2B and even a set outfield if Anthony or Campbell aren't ready to break camp.

 

[simplicio]

Shouldn't this be getting more attention here (if it's true)?

We aren't wildly speculating hard enough for you already?

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Seconded ... although it's Beyond the Sixth Game

According to this @Chad Finn story, the Rice/Komminsk rumor was in a notes column:

https://www.boston.com/sports/commentary/2020/06/18/boston-sports-worst-almost-trades/

I recall that there was a big rumor in the early 80s (I'm sure stated by Gammons in his notes column, which was about the only place to get Sox rumors back then) that Rice might be traded for Frank DiPino, relief pitcher, of the Houston Astros. Every time I read it, it killed me -- I loved Jim Rice. Rice was asking for $2 million/year, which would have made him the highest paid player in baseball, and the Sox didn't want to pay it.

I recall the Komminsk rumors, too, but don't recall the Orosco/Mookie/Meyers or Winfield rumors.

 

[NickEsasky]

Man, this is incredibly condescending and pretty shitty overall. His post isn’t even that miserable in the first place

All good. The Red Sox haven't made me miserable since Game 7 of the ALCS in 2003, but it's ok if Ras thinks I am.

 

[pdaj]

The Rangers had Marcus Semien, Corey Seager, and Adolis Garcia to surround the rookies with. Wyatt Langford didn’t come up until last year. Evan Carter only was there the last month plus the playoffs. Jung did have a good year though. I don’t think the 2025 Sox lineup is nearly as good as that Rangers one to support multiple rookies and still be good enough to be a playoff team.

And based upon how the Red Sox have been operating the past few years, I don't expect either Campbell or Anthony to break camp with the club. While this can certainly be rationalized as best setting up each player for success (not "rushing"), I think an equal (or even primary) motivationcan can be filed under service time manipulation. It's the smart, long-term play typically executed by smaller market teams. It also helps that it makes sense to give players such as Vaughn Grissom a legit shot to earn his place on the roster.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

Shouldn't this be getting more attention here (if it's true)? Maybe something was lost in translation for Devers or he's got a bro operating his account and we shouldn't read much into it. But otherwise, this is materially different than what his agent, Breslow and Cora have been saying all winter, which was, "Devers is going to be at 3B."

If Bregman is signed and Devers moves to DH, instead of 1B, the resulting roster "problem" becomes easier to correct -- just trade and subsidize Yoshida for whatever you need to, even if it means waiting until spring training to prove he's healthy and wait for other teams to experience injuries (or maybe we'll have injuries). There would be no need to trade Casas and play Devers at a position he's never played before. That still leaves a competition at 2B and even a set outfield if Anthony or Campbell aren't ready to break camp.

The second paragraph is exactly what I've been saying all winter.

However, anything an agent says - just like anything an owner says - should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

In this situation, nobody affiliated with the Red Sox should ever say a single thing other than "Devers is a 3b, he is our 3b, and he's working hard to improve there" until they have someone in place to change that plan. Maybe he will be. Maybe he won't be. But literally nothing else should be said beforehand.

While I like human reactions and don't fault someone for it, Story probably should never have said what he did about Arenado either. Only downside to him saying that unless / until a deal is made. Players get caught up in the moment too (not just executives), and for what it's worth, since Bregman isn't coming to Boston, I happen to agree with Story - but there is only downside to him having said it.

https://nesn.com/2025/01/trevor-story-opens-up-about-possible-nolan-arenado-red-sox-trade/


To me, that is always the tough thing to reconcile as a fan as in what do you want from a vocal leader? The business side / negotiating side of it is admittedly interesting, as is the clubhouse aspect (Story, without having said it, is endorsing a drastic move of some kind) and for clubhouse optics this could be bad. As a fan, I like a baseball player coming out and talking about something that they think would make the team better and help the team reach where we all hope they end up and in some ways lending credence to what many of us are seeing as problems with the current iteration of the Red Sox.

It's interesting to me, personally, to hear the players speak their minds. Plus for them, they aren't negotiating deals and are only dealing with workplace dynamics like the rest of us - so I want to be clear - even though there is really nothing but downside to Story having said that, I'm kind of glad he did. Makes players easier to relate to - which is part of being a fan and not at all analytical. On the flip side if Kennedy or someone said it, my reaction would be different. Interesting - but possibly unfair - dynamic there.

 

[joe dokes]

Why do the RS seem so aggressive to move Casas.

What is the onfield reasons? Is it injuries. Why do I have a feeling that it’s more to do with the old school hard ass baseball guys(Cora) having no patience for the yoga/napping/painting nails/ becoming in game media superstar before he has proved it on the field, type of situation. If that’s the case it’s bad business by the RS.

Maybe they aren't. Maybe other teams are asking because he's a valuable commodity.

 

[The Gray Eagle]

Seconded ... although it's Beyond the Sixth Game

According to this @Chad Finn story, the Rice/Komminsk rumor was in a notes column:

https://www.boston.com/sports/commentary/2020/06/18/boston-sports-worst-almost-trades/

Rice for Winfield would have been an amazing trade.
Winfield had more left than Rice at that point, though Rice was really good in 1986. (But if anything about the 1986 Red Sox season had gone differently, I might have a few more years added on to my life expectancy, even if say, missing the playoffs or losing to the Angels would have sucked at the time. And there's always the chance that the theoretical 1986 Red Sox with Winfield might have actually won it all, too. I'd gladly vote for changing that timeline.)

And if Winfield was in Boston, Steinbrenner wouldn't have hired Howard Spira to get dirt on him, and Steinbrenner wouldn't have been suspended from baseball in 1990-- meaning he probably would have continued messing up the Yankees and prevented them from developing their late 90's championship teams.

I doubt there was ever a real trade discussion of Rice for Winfield, since Gammons frames it all as "dreaming of packages" in trades for Rice.

Fun to think about though.