Much like Newman, the Sox are not “Ready to deliver”– The 2025 Offseason News (& rumors?) Thread

Fishy1

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There's been a lot of smoke with Arenado and Bregman. I do wonder if there's other guys we haven't thought of that will get moved.

For thinking about what's actually realistic in terms of trades, it helps to look at guys in mid-to-late arbitration on bad or cheap teams. Those guys and salary dumps are, I feel like, the players who get traded the most. Here's the list. Kyle Tucker and Crochet were the first guys of this group to get moved, I think? There might be others, I can't remember.

A few guys who I see as most likely to get moved this offseason are Vlad Guerrero Jr (because I don't think Toronto sees itself winning a bidding war and they're really bad right now), Framber Valdez (as Houston seems to be acting like they're getting ready for a rebuild?), and Luis Arraez (because San Diego loves to make these kind of trades).. Curious if others see guys who are likely to be moved.
 

Fishy1

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Houston was reported today as specifically not looking to move Framber.
Ah, thanks. That makes sense, they want to be competitive next year so they'll need to be blown away for whatever they would get for Valdez, basically. The actual quote:

We’re not aggressively trying to move him, but we’ll listen,” Brown told reporters (link via Matt Kawahara of the Houston Chronicle). “If you ask me if (I) think we’re going to trade Valdez, I don’t think we’re trading Valdez. I think he’s (a) pillar, and it’s really tough to keep a rotation intact, and we really feel like he’s going to be an important one in our rotation.
 

moondog80

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Or if he moved to 1b and replicated his offense he'd be more like Freeman was last season (wRC+ 137 fWAR of 4), and that is with Freeman being a so so fielder.
I get the point but the goal of course is not to produce WAR. If the net impact of moving of Devers off 3B and all the ancillary moves is more actual wins, and it’s not at great expense to future flexibility, they should do it.
 

SouthernBoSox

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There are some reports the Twins are listening on Pablo Lopez

He is someone I’d be very aggressive on. Amazing contract, young (28), workhorse.

Would be immediately be the highest projected starter on the team outside of Crochet and he’s a very good compliment to a Crochet type due to his durability.

Unsure what the Twins would need in return. They have a very good outfield, however, first base seems very open…..
 

Yelling At Clouds

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There are some reports the Twins are listening on Pablo Lopez

He is someone I’d be very aggressive on. Amazing contract, young (28), workhorse.

Would be immediately be the highest projected starter on the team outside of Crochet and he’s a very good compliment to a Crochet type due to his durability.

Unsure what the Twins would need in return. They have a very good outfield, however, first base seems very open…..
Buxton, Walner, who else? (This is an actual question, not snark).

But yeah, Lopez is someone I might consider blowing up the infield for.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Buxton, Walner, who else? (This is an actual question, not snark).

But yeah, Lopez is someone I might consider blowing up the infield for.
Trevor Larnach is good enough I don’t think they’d view Abreu as a good enough upgrade to frontline a Lopez move.

Cases + Kutter as the starting pieces…. They are listening for sure.
 

BigSoxFan

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Trevor Larnach is good enough I don’t think they’d view Abreu as a good enough upgrade to frontline a Lopez move.

Cases + Kutter as the starting pieces…. They are listening for sure.
Their top 2 prospects are OF prospects as well. Jenkins isn’t even 20 yet so not a 2025 issue but he has a shot to debut in 2026. Emmanuel Rodriguez has a shot to debut in 2025 so agree they’re probably looking for other positions.

You trade Casas/Kutter/prospect for Lopez and then sign Alonso to backfill Casas and you’ve probably improved the team.
 

chawson

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There are some reports the Twins are listening on Pablo Lopez

He is someone I’d be very aggressive on. Amazing contract, young (28), workhorse.

Would be immediately be the highest projected starter on the team outside of Crochet and he’s a very good compliment to a Crochet type due to his durability.

Unsure what the Twins would need in return. They have a very good outfield, however, first base seems very open…..
Especially if taking on Vaz’s contract (1/$10M) helps smooth that deal somehow. Something like López and Vázquez for Casas and Hamilton could make sense.
 

BornToRun

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Their top 2 prospects are OF prospects as well. Jenkins isn’t even 20 yet so not a 2025 issue but he has a shot to debut in 2026. Emmanuel Rodriguez has a shot to debut in 2025 so agree they’re probably looking for other positions.

You trade Casas/Kutter/prospect for Lopez and then sign Alonso to backfill Casas and you’ve probably improved the team.
I was interested in Alonso if his market cratered and we could move Yoshida. I could live with him as a Casas replacement at 3-4 years if Casas turned into a higher end starter. Problem is if Alonso’s market will fail to find someone who will go 5-6 years.
 

Reggie's Racquet

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Their top 2 prospects are OF prospects as well. Jenkins isn’t even 20 yet so not a 2025 issue but he has a shot to debut in 2026. Emmanuel Rodriguez has a shot to debut in 2025 so agree they’re probably looking for other positions.

You trade Casas/Kutter/prospect for Lopez and then sign Alonso to backfill Casas and you’ve probably improved the team.
Or move Devers to first and sign Bregman.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Especially if taking on Vaz’s contract (1/$10M) helps smooth that deal somehow. Something like López and Vázquez for Casas and Hamilton could make sense.
Totally.

Getting Lopez, Vazquez, and a subsequent trade for Yandy Diaz for Casas and Kutter would be a pretty enormous boon to the team WAR total.(Similar to the Crochet addition). This, obviously, would cost additional prospect capital but…

Streamer
Lopez 3.6
Diaz 3.5
Vazquez 1.3

Casas 2.5
Kutter 2.3
Navarez .5

+3.1 WAR. Vazquez rolls off in ‘26. Yandy has a club option if he performs.

Leaves plenty of room for a Crochet extension, another reliever, and dare I say it a legit run at Vladdy in ‘26.
 

moondog80

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Totally.

Getting Lopez, Vazquez, and a subsequent trade for Yandy Diaz for Casas and Kutter would be a pretty enormous boon to the team WAR total.(Similar to the Crochet addition). This, obviously, would cost additional prospect capital but…

Streamer
Lopez 3.6
Diaz 3.5
Vazquez 1.3

Casas 2.5
Kutter 2.3
Navarez .5

+3.1 WAR. Vazquez rolls off in ‘26. Yandy has a club option if he performs.

Leaves plenty of room for a Crochet extension, another reliever, and dare I say it a legit run at Vladdy in ‘26.
The system has been stripped quite a bit between the Crochet deal and the trade deadline, I’m not sure how much more prospect capital they will give up.
 

LogansDad

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The system has been stripped quite a bit between the Crochet deal and the trade deadline, I’m not sure how much more prospect capital they will give up.
I don't think any of the big three will be moved. If they wouldn't move them for Crochet, there are very few players I could see them moving for.

They have some quality offensive depth at the next level of the prospect list (Bleis, Arias, Password, etc.), but they are all so far off that I don't really think any of them are moveable for a real impact player. The guys who are close are mostly pitchers who 1) aren't likely to bring a major return and 2) would be very disappointing to lose if they get a mediocre MLB player for them and they pop off. This is the guys like Guerrero and Fitts, but also the Sandlin/Yordanny types.

Due to that, I kind of agree that they are probably done moving prospects.

I still dream of Christian Walker on a 2 or 3 year deal, a catcher and some more relief/backend rotation depth, but I have a feeling the big game has already been caught.
 

TheDogMan

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Trying to figure out the Red Sox losing another draft pick language.
Which was the first draft pick they lost? Does the writer mean to say any draft pick? Is he referring to the players they traded for Crochet? Stock piling picks is nice but adding proven players, or even better, All Stars is nicer. One might strategies it is the perfect year to add multiple stars as all of the lost picks can not be first to first round picks. Teoscar, Tanner Scott and Burnes might cost the three best picks of the 2025 draft but we could be A L favorites for the next few years and we could go toe to toe with the Mets or Dodgers if we get to the World Serie. That is the goal, is it not? Compound that with the fact that next year will not have the free agent quality this year offered. Our fa pickups to date are Aroldis Chapman and no one else. Is it that players don't want to play for Boston or is it that Boston won't pay the freight to bring them here.
 

buttons

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Couldn’t agree more.
If we’re not willing to give up prospects,money or draft picks
we either are all set as we stand or have an organization that just doesn’t
want to pull the trigger
I’m not sure anyone believes the former.
Plenty of time to make some moves!
 

OCD SS

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Per Gammons
"Three officials from other teams in four days have claimed Craig Breslow has been the most active GM in trade discussions, two describing his approach as "persistence" "

Maybe that connects to the Twins rumors.

https://x.com/pgammo/status/1869804997711671381
Are there actual reported rumors connecting the Sox to the Twins, or are you basing it on the discussion here?

Persistence and (attempted at least) creativity in trades seems to be something that’s shared across several Sox GM’s. It sounds like something ownership looks for. It would make sense if they’re prioritizing getting young talent as an organizational goal.
 
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simplicio

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There hasn't been reporting on the Sox/Twins specifically, but I think it's safe to assume Breslow has "checked in on" Lopez if he's being made available.
 

Rich Garces Belly

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Are there actual reported rumors connecting the Sox to the Twins, or are you basing it on the discussion here?

Persistence and (attempted at least) creativity in trades seems to be something that’s shared across several Sox GM’s. It sounds like something ownership looks for. It would make sense if they’re prioritizing getting young talent as an organizational goal.
I completely understand why they would want young talent, but they really need to invest in some veterans who have had success in the league. Some good clubhouse guys who can take the rookies under their wings, even Cassas could benefit greatly from it. I would love for them to bring in Goldschmidt, Robertson, bring Martin back. Having those types around would really benefit the younger players this year and in the long term.
 

simplicio

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I completely understand why they would want young talent, but they really need to invest in some veterans who have had success in the league. Some good clubhouse guys who can take the rookies under their wings, even Cassas could benefit greatly from it. I would love for them to bring in Goldschmidt, Robertson, bring Martin back. Having those types around would really benefit the younger players this year and in the long term.
Reports from this year were that Refsnyder is a real clubhouse leader.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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I think getting Goldschmidt is the short term answer for next season now. DH backup 1B, and I think Romy did a good job there in his short time.
The long term answer is, like most everyone else here thinks... is to get Devers into the DH/backup corner IF role and keep Campbell in AAA working on those two spots. I'm bullish on Grissom- I liked how he looked there at the end of the season and think it's a good base going forward.
A good BP arm and I think the team is top 3 in the AL without any other team really looking dominant (like LA in the NL).

Duran
Devers
Goldschmidt
Casas
Story
Abreu
Grissom
Anthony
Wong

in '25

Duran
Devers
Campbell
Casas
Abreu
Grissom
Anthony
Mayer
C

for the next 3 years
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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A few notes from Passan that people might find interesting (behind the ESPN Paywall, so I'm linking to a Bleacher report summation - it's also why nothing is quoted).

- Doesn't think that Bregman or Burnes will sign until after Christmas.

On Bregman
- Lists Jays, Mets, Phillies Sox, Tigers Yanks as in on Bregman
- Believes he will get around $200m

On Burnes
- Lists Giants, Jays and O's (not the Red Sox) as in on Burnes
- His market will exceed the 8/$218m Fried got.

View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10147852-passan-corbin-burnes-alex-bregman-likely-wont-sign-contracts-until-after-christmas
 

Yo La Tengo

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I think getting Goldschmidt is the short term answer for next season now. DH backup 1B, and I think Romy did a good job there in his short time.
The long term answer is, like most everyone else here thinks... is to get Devers into the DH/backup corner IF role and keep Campbell in AAA working on those two spots. I'm bullish on Grissom- I liked how he looked there at the end of the season and think it's a good base going forward.
A good BP arm and I think the team is top 3 in the AL without any other team really looking dominant (like LA in the NL).
I agree with the long-term goal of moving Devers to DH, but I don't think Goldschmidt fits well into that plan. He had an OPS+ of 98 last year (so below league average), he's 37 years old, he had an OPS of .675 against right handed pitching last year and Romy Gonzalez outproduced him vs left handed pitching. And he played in 154 games so these numbers are not a SSS caused by injury. Yoshida had an OPS+ last year of 112 and at least has some chance of producing better than that with health while Goldschmidt's trends look like the result of a player who will turn 38 next season.
 

Max Power

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I think getting Goldschmidt is the short term answer for next season now. DH backup 1B, and I think Romy did a good job there in his short time.
The long term answer is, like most everyone else here thinks... is to get Devers into the DH/backup corner IF role and keep Campbell in AAA working on those two spots. I'm bullish on Grissom- I liked how he looked there at the end of the season and think it's a good base going forward.
A good BP arm and I think the team is top 3 in the AL without any other team really looking dominant (like LA in the NL).

Duran
Devers
Goldschmidt
Casas
Story
Abreu
Grissom
Anthony
Wong
Yoshida is a better hitter than Goldschmidt at this point in their careers. He's 37 and just put up 600 PA of a .302 OBP. I get the need to balance the lineup, but a poor hitting righty is not a good replacement for a good hitting lefty. Making those series of moves seem to make the lineup worse.

I also don't think the team needs to move Devers off third any time soon. Yes, he's bad there, but the Yankees seemed to do okay with a guy who was statistically the worst shortstop in history for 20 years. If you can hit and aren't Jose Offerman at shortstop bad in the field, you're not hurting the team, especially in this era of historic low number of balls in play.
 

Yo La Tengo

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I don't necessarily agree on H/A/B/S, but I can at least see the argument of thinking they will all decline (including Yoshida) so you want none of them as on the Boston Red Sox.

One thing that should be said, while I have options that I'd prefer, and I think I've outlined those enough, I can totally see the argument for playing "all" the kids. As I've mentioned, I don't think the combination of:

Current starting 5 + current line up + current IF defense = Team that likely makes the World Series.

But I totally get behind the idea of trading Yoshida to wherever will give you the most money (which I assume to be about $5m per year) and going with:

Duran - CF (L)
Story - SS (R)
Devers - DH (L)
Casas - 1b (L)
Campbell - 3b (R)
Abreu - RF (L)
Anthony - LF (L)
Wong - C (R)
Hamilton / Best platoon option from ST - 2b

Bench of: Rafaela; whichever of Grissom or Gonzalez wins the short side platoon; Refsnyder, back up C.



Then having $56m instead of $51m to go get more pitching. At least then while you may have hurt the offense a little bit (not certain, but possible) you recoup that value by pretty drastically upgrading the infield defense (yes, I think a SS could be pretty good at 3b in Campbell) at two places instead of one, you've gained a lot of flexibility, you've gotten much better on the basepaths) and helping that infield defense should help the pitching. I think that team overall would be improved from one that has Devers at 3b and Yoshida at DH.

As to the 2026/27 teams, you're getting a lot closer to finding out what you have for them as well and understanding which of Campbell, Anthony, Abreu, Rafaela, Hamilton, Grissom and Gonzalez are going to be parts of it (because it's incredibly unlikely that it's all of them).
We basically agree, but for the timing of trading Yoshida. Since I think Campbell and Anthony should not be rushed into the lineup, there is room for Yoshida on this team. Ideally those two and Grissom force the issue and Yoshida puts up an OPS+ of 120ish, making him an attractive trade candidate mid-summer.
 

RS2004foreever

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Are there actual reported rumors connecting the Sox to the Twins, or are you basing it on the discussion here?

Persistence and (attempted at least) creativity in trades seems to be something that’s shared across several Sox GM’s. It sounds like something ownership looks for. It would make sense if they’re prioritizing getting young talent as an organizational goal.
My own speculation.
Passan notes teams are seemingly reluctant to give Alonso a long term deal. I suppose you could trade Casas and sign Alonso and get the right-handed bat that would, I think, play very well in Fenway. Not a fan of dealing Casas - but just noting you could go that route.
 

finnVT

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Why is there an assumption that Devers won't be considerably worse at 1B than he is at 3B? Wong, for example, is a "great athlete," but he sucked at 1B.
Leaving specific skillsets aside, the range of outcomes at 1b is just smaller. Last year, looking at defensive WAR (per fangraphs' numbers) per 1000 innings, the standard deviation among 1bmen was 4.7 WAR, whereas among 3B was 7.7. It's just hard to cost the team (or benefit them) as much at 1b generally.
 

OCD SS

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I completely understand why they would want young talent, but they really need to invest in some veterans who have had success in the league. Some good clubhouse guys who can take the rookies under their wings, even Cassas could benefit greatly from it. I would love for them to bring in Goldschmidt, Robertson, bring Martin back. Having those types around would really benefit the younger players this year and in the long term.
I want to push back on this: why exactly do they need “veterans who have had success in the league”?

Is the idea that the team last year somehow floundered because the younger players didn’t have the benefit of magic veteran pixie dust? Does Story not count in this role?

… And definitely please explain what was lacking in Casas’s game that would be fixed by adding a veteran as a back-up caddy, but that is something that the coaching staff can’t work with him on?

I’m not against signing free agents, but getting players who will ultimately take playing time from the younger players isn’t really going to help if they’re not likely to deserve that playing time. I’m not sure a veteran who feels entitled to playing time despite declining performance is really providing the right kind of leadership.
 

Yo La Tengo

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There are some reports the Twins are listening on Pablo Lopez

He is someone I’d be very aggressive on. Amazing contract, young (28), workhorse.

Would be immediately be the highest projected starter on the team outside of Crochet and he’s a very good compliment to a Crochet type due to his durability.

Unsure what the Twins would need in return. They have a very good outfield, however, first base seems very open…..
I'm trying to figure out why the Twins would consider trading Pablo Lopez? He'll be 29 next year, is under contract for three more years at an extremely reasonable $21.75/yr contract, he has thrown 180, 194, and 185 innings the last three seasons and has a top 10 K/BB ratio the last two years. He gave up an unusually high number of home runs pre-All Star break last year but was excellent for the second half of the season.
 

bosockboy

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I'm trying to figure out why the Twins would consider trading Pablo Lopez? He'll be 29 next year, is under contract for three more years at an extremely reasonable $21.75/yr contract, he has thrown 180, 194, and 185 innings the last three seasons and has a top 10 K/BB ratio the last two years. He gave up an unusually high number of home runs pre-All Star break last year but was excellent for the second half of the season.
Correa contract might be starting to be a problem already.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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We basically agree, but for the timing of trading Yoshida. Since I think Campbell and Anthony should not be rushed into the lineup, there is room for Yoshida on this team. Ideally those two and Grissom force the issue and Yoshida puts up an OPS+ of 120ish, making him an attractive trade candidate mid-summer.
Sent you a message on our conversation, as I find it interesting.

I didn't post it because I'm trying to stop posting pleas about doing anything besides having another year of Devers at 3b, Casas at 1b and Yoshida at DH.

Mods - feel free to delete this post, I just didn't want it to seem like I was ignoring someone.
 

Fishy1

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Exactly. Feels much more opportunistic than something they have as a cornerstone of their offseason.
He's a really good pitcher, and they, like the Red Sox, should be adding to try to become more competitive, not bailing on their best starting pitcher. Their staff was kind of weak.
 

joe dokes

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Leaving specific skillsets aside, the range of outcomes at 1b is just smaller. Last year, looking at defensive WAR (per fangraphs' numbers) per 1000 innings, the standard deviation among 1bmen was 4.7 WAR, whereas among 3B was 7.7. It's just hard to cost the team (or benefit them) as much at 1b generally.
Thanks. That's an explanation that even I can understand. (Though I am still against moving Devers, which necessitates moving Casas (unless Casas nets something really huge. And I am realllly against moving him to make room for Arenado, who may be nearly toast.)).
 

Jack Rabbit Slim

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The Sandoval signing coupled with the report that they are still looking at rotation additions makes me think they are including Crawford in trade proposals.

Something like Abreu and Crawford for Yanier Diaz or Crawford and Bernadino for Pablo Lopez and Christian Vazquez.
 

Yo La Tengo

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Leaving specific skillsets aside, the range of outcomes at 1b is just smaller. Last year, looking at defensive WAR (per fangraphs' numbers) per 1000 innings, the standard deviation among 1bmen was 4.7 WAR, whereas among 3B was 7.7. It's just hard to cost the team (or benefit them) as much at 1b generally.
To echo this post, DRS ranks at the Fielding Bible show a similar pattern, with just a few first basemen over +3 each year.

Casas was -4 in 2023 and -1 last year.

And Romy was +3, with excellent offensive numbers against LHP.
 

bosox1534

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If this goes through, then Houston is for sure out on Bregman, with Paredes at 3B and Walker at 1B. Market shrinking could be good for Sox.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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If this goes through, then Houston is for sure out on Bregman, with Paredes at 3B and Walker at 1B. Market shrinking could be good for Sox.
It would need to shrink a whole hell of a lot for Bregman to the Red Sox to make sense. Like to Christian Walker size, I imagine.
 

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

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The Sandoval signing coupled with the report that they are still looking at rotation additions makes me think they are including Crawford in trade proposals.

Something like Abreu and Crawford for Yanier Diaz or Crawford and Bernadino for Pablo Lopez and Christian Vazquez.
Unless Minnesota's owner went bankrupt and I missed it, or their GM wants to get fired, there is no way they'd take Crawford and Bernardino or anything approximating that for Lopez, with our without Vazquez $10m off their books. You'd need to at minimum be adding one of Casas, Abreu or Mayer for them to not disconnect the Zoom session immediately.

Unfortunately (for me at least) I think the Sandoval signing effectively ends whatever pursuit there might have been of Alex Bregman, Nolan Arenado, Pablo Lopez or Luis Castillo.

I don't believe there is any chance they're going over LTT1 and doing the math, they were at $51m before that deal. Sandoval takes them down to $42m. A Crochet extension (which has to happen) brings them down to $20m left to spend, and Bregman, Lopez and Castillo are over that already. Arenado could technically fit, but that would put them right up against it and they have always seemed to want a buffer (going back to the FSG and not FSRedbird days, even).


They'll add a 'pen arm (or two), possibly even a good one and MAYBE something that hits RH at the end of the off-season if they can upgrade on Romy Gonzalez. But with the exception of seeing what happens with Scott, Kirby and Hoffman, I'd say thus concludes the off-season for the Boston Red Sox. Might be time for a "what do we have here" thread.
 

bosox1534

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Unless Minnesota's owner went bankrupt and I missed it, or their GM wants to get fired, there is no way they'd take Crawford and Bernardino or anything approximating that for Lopez, with our without Vazquez $10m off their books. You'd need to at minimum be adding one of Casas, Abreu or Mayer for them to not disconnect the Zoom session immediately.

Unfortunately (for me at least) I think the Sandoval signing effectively ends whatever pursuit there might have been of Alex Bregman, Nolan Arenado, Pablo Lopez or Luis Castillo.

I don't believe there is any chance they're going over LTT1 and doing the math, they were at $51m before that deal. Sandoval takes them down to $42m. A Crochet extension (which has to happen) brings them down to $20m left to spend, and Bregman, Lopez and Castillo are over that already. Arenado could technically fit, but that would put them right up against it and they have always seemed to want a buffer (going back to the FSG and not FSRedbird days, even).


They'll add a 'pen arm (or two), possibly even a good one and MAYBE something that hits RH at the end of the off-season if they can upgrade on Romy Gonzalez. But with the exception of seeing what happens with Scott, Kirby and Hoffman, I'd say thus concludes the off-season for the Boston Red Sox. Might be time for a "what do we have here" thread.
Sandoval is only making $5M this year, so they have a little bit more to spend. Not to nitpick.
 

bosox1534

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It would need to shrink a whole hell of a lot for Bregman to the Red Sox to make sense. Like to Christian Walker size, I imagine.
Okay maybe Arenado then, I should say it shrinks the corner infielder market. I’m only signing Bregman to play 2B or to move Devers to DH and trade Yoshida. Any situation involving moving Casas I am against, unless it’s like George Kirby.
 

LogansDad

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Bregman would allow us to keep Casas, which I am a big proponent of.
They wouldn't have to get rid of Casas for Walker, either. And the defense upgrade from Casas to Walker would be pretty close to the 3B upgrade from Bregman. And Walker will likely be cheaper/less years.

I am also a big Christian Walker fan, so I might be biased.
 

bosox1534

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They wouldn't have to get rid of Casas for Walker, either. And the defense upgrade from Casas to Walker would be pretty close to the 3B upgrade from Bregman. And Walker will likely be cheaper/less years.

I am also a big Christian Walker fan, so I might be biased.
He’s a solid player no doubt, I just don’t think the Sox would make Casas a full-time DH.