More Accusations of Cheating in MLB

RedOctober3829

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JCizzle

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glennhoffmania

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Let's say it's true. How would someone watching the video feed pass along the pitcher's grip to the batter in the second or two before the pitch is delivered?
 

54thMA

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The Mets should be outraged over the Royals cheating.

The Astros should be outraged over the Yankees and the Dodgers cheating; both teams cheated and still lost to the Astros.

So Quasimodo was tipped off to what pitch was coming in 2017/18; what did the Yankees do, ring a church bell once for a fastball, two for a curve and three for a slider?
 

joe dokes

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Let's say it's true. How would someone watching the video feed pass along the pitcher's grip to the batter in the second or two before the pitch is delivered?
Does the knowledge passed to the hitter help with a subsequent at bat if the pitcher is not super-hidden with his grip?
 

mauf

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If memory serves, you’re allowed to use video to decipher your opponent’s signs, just not video from a game that’s in progress. I don’t know if there are rules about where cameras can be set up, but so long as the video wasn’t watched until after the game, I’d expect any violation to be minor. Even if the video was streamed to the dugout during the game, it’s more like what the Red Sox did than what the Astros did so long as information wasn’t conveyed to the batter in real time, which hasn’t been alleged.
 

Bozo Texino

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Oh man. If this is true, as an Astros fan I will be PSYCHED to watch Dodgers fans eat shit on this one.

Bunch of whiny fucking babies.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Thankfully, if sports has taught us anything, it is that the general public is able to parse the nuances of to "where a camera is" in terms of its legality.
 

Bozo Texino

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Let's say it's true. How would someone watching the video feed pass along the pitcher's grip to the batter in the second or two before the pitch is delivered?
Spaeder has another tweet that might answer this.

View: https://twitter.com/theaceofspaeder/status/1405197406883483662


Ryan M. Spaeder
@theaceofspaeder

As insane as this sounds, I've heard this from multiple players, Adrian Beltre had a buddy with binoculars in dead center who would wave a beater (undershirt) if he was getting something off speed in 2017. Beltre 2017 home - .362/.440/.586 Beltre 2017 away - .271/.333/.489

Doesn't seem too crazy that there could've been someone in the stands sending some sort of visual signal to batters.
 

LesterFan

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Spaeder has another tweet that might answer this.

View: https://twitter.com/theaceofspaeder/status/1405197406883483662


Ryan M. Spaeder
@theaceofspaeder

As insane as this sounds, I've heard this from multiple players, Adrian Beltre had a buddy with binoculars in dead center who would wave a beater (undershirt) if he was getting something off speed in 2017. Beltre 2017 home - .362/.440/.586 Beltre 2017 away - .271/.333/.489

Doesn't seem too crazy that there could've been someone in the stands sending some sort of visual signal to batters.
View: https://twitter.com/ShehanJeyarajah/status/1405200834431012867


The Rangers literally didn't have fans in dead center. Arlington was also a very hitter friendly park. Can't take this guy serious.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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View: https://twitter.com/ShehanJeyarajah/status/1405200834431012867


The Rangers literally didn't have fans in dead center. Arlington was also a very hitter friendly park. Can't take this guy serious.
I was going to ask why is he coming out with this now and why does he seem so angry about some of it? Seems like he's either going to burn bridges that could impact his career going forward or he's been cut off for some other reason and is just going nuclear. And to what end?
 

glennhoffmania

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Spaeder has another tweet that might answer this.

View: https://twitter.com/theaceofspaeder/status/1405197406883483662


Ryan M. Spaeder
@theaceofspaeder

As insane as this sounds, I've heard this from multiple players, Adrian Beltre had a buddy with binoculars in dead center who would wave a beater (undershirt) if he was getting something off speed in 2017. Beltre 2017 home - .362/.440/.586 Beltre 2017 away - .271/.333/.489

Doesn't seem too crazy that there could've been someone in the stands sending some sort of visual signal to batters.
I'm not saying it didn't happen but I'm still very skeptical. Pitchers can change the grip in the glove a half second before starting the delivery. And if I recall TX is a yuge hitters' park so it's not surprising that Beltre hit better at home.

What am I supposed to be noticing that's so obvious is the Jeyarajah tweet?
 

Just a bit outside

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I'm not saying it didn't happen but I'm still very skeptical. Pitchers can change the grip in the glove a half second before starting the delivery. And if I recall TX is a yuge hitters' park so it's not surprising that Beltre hit better at home.

What am I supposed to be noticing that's so obvious is the Jeyarajah tweet?
That he said the guy was in dead center and there is only a grass hill.
 

sean1562

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Sounds like he is reporting just whatever he has heard from any player ever without even trying to independently verify it? Doing it for the retweets I guess?
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I mean, there's literally a fan on the railing dead center behind the grassy section in that picture.
 

joe dokes

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I mean, there's literally a fan on the railing dead center behind the grassy section in that picture.
I thought he was referring to the four rows of balconies. That's easy enough for a hitter to see. "dead center" could encompass beyond the grass on twiitter.
 

Cesar Crespo

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There are literally people hanging over the railing. Are you people looking on your cell phone or a computer?
 

cornwalls@6

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It's been the culture of the sport forever. Virtually impossible to stay head of. Particularly in the era of micro-technology/electronics. It's time to end all the shocked, won't somebody think of the children outrage, and just go free for all. Make sign-stealing, however it's accomplished, fully legal. May the best analytics/video department win. It was always the height of naiveté and fan boy homer-ism to think only a couple of teams have been doing it. As such, I will richly enjoy any mud that gets flung on the whiny Dodgers and MFY.
 
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geoduck no quahog

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Stop being so literal. There are fans above the Galaxy and Loya signs in that photo. They could also be (to a baseball player's terminology) "dead center".

What's more interesting is why this stuff is coming out now.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Those balconies are over 600 feet from home plate. Stealing signs and signalling hitters from there seems...impractical.
They are waving around a white shirt, not putting up 2 fingers.

edit: The stealing of the signs would be the problem, never mind. Signaling the hitter shouldn't be that hard.

double edit: The friend had binoculars.
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Waving a white shirt in front of a white balcony 600 feet from home plate doesn't seem ideal.

Anyway, this is all just splitting hairs. I'm more curious why this guy suddenly decided to air this potential dirty laundry today. If he was a MLB pitcher it would make sense that he was trying to go after hitters, but as he is some rando analyst I'm not sure his angle or why he is to be believed automatically.
 

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What's more interesting is why this stuff is coming out now.
Ryan is of the strong belief that pitchers shouldn’t be held responsible for the spider tack situation and that MLB needs to take accountability for its own actions that it inevitably set up and wasn’t regulated prior to the middle of the season. From my understanding of Spaeder, he sees it as an extension of the steroid effect where MLB passes the buck on to its players for something they helped create. It’s all part of at large disdain for Manfred’s actions that are inconsistent with attitudes among players past and present.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Ryan is of the strong belief that pitchers shouldn’t be held responsible for the spider tack situation and that MLB needs to take accountability for its own actions that it inevitably set up and wasn’t regulated prior to the middle of the season. From my understanding of Spaeder, he sees it as an extension of the steroid effect where MLB passes the buck on to its players for something they helped create. It’s all part of at large disdain for Manfred’s actions that are inconsistent with attitudes among players past and present.
But no one is actually trying to "hold players responsible" for past doctoring of the ball, right? No one is saying that Trevor Bauer should be suspended now for doctoring the ball last year (or last month, whatever). MLB is only saying that going forward, players will be punished. That to me is vastly different from the steroid situation when MLB to some degree, and certainly MLB reporters, were criticizing players for past actions during a time when those actions were routine.

Either way, I don't really see how that has any connection to sign-stealing. If his point is just "everyone in baseball cheats to the extent they think they can get away with it" - well, yeah, sure, that should be obvious. But (a) that doesn't mean you shouldn't be punished if you get caught cheating, and (b) doesn't that actually support MLB's efforts to crack down on at least one form of (previously tolerated) cheating?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Ryan is of the strong belief that pitchers shouldn’t be held responsible for the spider tack situation and that MLB needs to take accountability for its own actions that it inevitably set up and wasn’t regulated prior to the middle of the season. From my understanding of Spaeder, he sees it as an extension of the steroid effect where MLB passes the buck on to its players for something they helped create. It’s all part of at large disdain for Manfred’s actions that are inconsistent with attitudes among players past and present.
So his response to MLB not taking enough accountability for the rise in use of spider tack and the like is to spill tea on a whole bunch of hitters that have nothing to do with the current controversy?
 

terrynever

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So who is Ryan Spaeder? Busy guy. Worked in finance, served in the Marine Corps, 2011 Penn State grad. I truly never heard of this dipshit until reading this thread.

Twitter bio: MLB Analyst, Author, Host, Statistician, Writer | “Retired” Senior Hedge Fund Account Manager | Penn State Alum | USMC Veteran | Semper Fi Fund Supporter (lists Curt Schillng as supporter).
 
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If his point is just "everyone in baseball cheats to the extent they think they can get away with it" - well, yeah, sure, that should be obvious.
I don’t want to speak too much for him or veer this too far off the original point, but that’s what I think his statement is. That MLB points fingers at a particular target, but unnecessarily so given all these other matters untouched, unexposed. And that as obvious as that is, it’s not the existing, applied standard within Major League Baseball.


So his response to MLB not taking enough accountability for the rise in use of spider tack and the like is to spill tea on a whole bunch of hitters that have nothing to do with the current controversy?
Yep. My guess is that that it’s to help fan those flames and create discussion elsewhere. Much as the reception at large (of baseball discourse, not media itself) has been tepid at best, it seems to have distracted a bit from the pitching news today. Psychologically, it seems like to hide that controversy, here’s this even bigger one. Scorched earth always devours a small ember. You can agree with Ryan or not, but that feels like his underlying concept, of just how structurally broken MLB is.
 

YTF

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So who is Ryan Spaeder? Busy guy. Worked in finance, served in the Marine Corps, 2011 Penn State grad. I truly never heard of this dipshit until reading this thread.

Twitter bio: MLB Analyst, Author, Host, Statistician, Writer | “Retired” Senior Hedge Fund Account Manager | Penn State Alum | USMC Veteran | Semper Fi Fund Supporter (lists Curt Schillng as supporter).
I honestly would like to hear more from others because this guy can't be the only "insider" with this sort of knowledge. Until then, a guy supported by known conspiracy theorist Curt Schilling talking about a guy on a grassy knoll in Texas isn't getting a whole lot of notice from me.
 

Rovin Romine

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But no one is actually trying to "hold players responsible" for past doctoring of the ball, right? No one is saying that Trevor Bauer should be suspended now for doctoring the ball last year (or last month, whatever). MLB is only saying that going forward, players will be punished. That to me is vastly different from the steroid situation when MLB to some degree, and certainly MLB reporters, were criticizing players for past actions during a time when those actions were routine.

Either way, I don't really see how that has any connection to sign-stealing. If his point is just "everyone in baseball cheats to the extent they think they can get away with it" - well, yeah, sure, that should be obvious. But (a) that doesn't mean you shouldn't be punished if you get caught cheating, and (b) doesn't that actually support MLB's efforts to crack down on at least one form of (previously tolerated) cheating?
Anabolic Steroids were heavily regulated by Congress in 1990, and MLB added them to the banned substances list in 1991. I don't know when adding substances to the ball became a rule, but I'd guess it's close to 100 years old.

Cheating when you think it's especially safe to do so, because you not likely to get caught? Just means you've got no moral character.
 

crow216

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Look, I could care less if the some proof gets found about the Yankees or Dodgers cheating. But what the hell do home away splits tell? Judge's home/away splits continue to have a huge difference, just like a ton of Yankees players historically. Take a look at last year, there was a huge difference (1.26ops vs .726). This year, oddly, it's opposite.

And again, as has been beaten (pun intended) to death, find proof that they used cameras and some system to relay to the batters live anytime after that ipad stuff happened. The Astros are scrutinized not just becuase they won a WS but because they had such an obvious system of cheating that you could actively hear and see it on live TV and understand how it worked. And i mean...they admitted it.
 

brandonchristensen

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The Mets should be outraged over the Royals cheating.

The Astros should be outraged over the Yankees and the Dodgers cheating; both teams cheated and still lost to the Astros.

So Quasimodo was tipped off to what pitch was coming in 2017/18; what did the Yankees do, ring a church bell once for a fastball, two for a curve and three for a slider?
He actually had to ring it himself.
 

santadevil

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Ryan is of the strong belief that pitchers shouldn’t be held responsible for the spider tack situation and that MLB needs to take accountability for its own actions that it inevitably set up and wasn’t regulated prior to the middle of the season. From my understanding of Spaeder, he sees it as an extension of the steroid effect where MLB passes the buck on to its players for something they helped create. It’s all part of at large disdain for Manfred’s actions that are inconsistent with attitudes among players past and present.
I don’t want to speak too much for him or veer this too far off the original point, but that’s what I think his statement is. That MLB points fingers at a particular target, but unnecessarily so given all these other matters untouched, unexposed. And that as obvious as that is, it’s not the existing, applied standard within Major League Baseball.




Yep. My guess is that that it’s to help fan those flames and create discussion elsewhere. Much as the reception at large (of baseball discourse, not media itself) has been tepid at best, it seems to have distracted a bit from the pitching news today. Psychologically, it seems like to hide that controversy, here’s this even bigger one. Scorched earth always devours a small ember. You can agree with Ryan or not, but that feels like his underlying concept, of just how structurally broken MLB is.
Kinda seems like you know this guy in real life? Or am I reading too much into it?
 

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Kinda seems like you know this guy in real life? Or am I reading too much into it?
Pretty close, at the very least. He and I have discussed a lot about stats, comps, and the history of baseball, like stats oddities and such, over the past year or so (‘last player to do XYZ since 123!’). We have semi-frequent Twitter correspondence, as what he traditionally tweets is very similar to what I do, much like Sarah Langs, or any of the stats companies, such as a Sports Info Solutions, Elias, StatsbyStats, etc. Part of the logical territory.

Personally, he’s helped me make a bunch of external social media connections I would have never otherwise made.
 

richgedman'sghost

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I honestly would like to hear more from others because this guy can't be the only "insider" with this sort of knowledge. Until then, a guy supported by known conspiracy theorist Curt Schilling talking about a guy on a grassy knoll in Texas isn't getting a whole lot of notice from me.
I don't think Schilling supports this guy. It might be poorly written but what I think the connection between Schilling and the poster is that they support the same military charity. I don't think connection financial or otherwise between the poster and Schilling.. I'm not sure if that changes your opinion of the guy. He is not necessarily a conspiracy nut or share any of Schilling's political beliefs. Perhaps reconsider your opinion.
 

YTF

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I don't think Schilling supports this guy. It might be poorly written but what I think the connection between Schilling and the poster is that they support the same military charity. I don't think connection financial or otherwise between the poster and Schilling.. I'm not sure if that changes your opinion of the guy. He is not necessarily a conspiracy nut or share any of Schilling's political beliefs. Perhaps reconsider your opinion.
Back Schilling out of my post and my opinion stands. The guy's dropped a lot of tweets making lots of accusations. If he's an insider who's feeling compelled to drop some knowledge, then do it in a better and more comprehensive format. Write a full article, give some interviews where you are willing to partake in some Q&A.. Present more than "I've had enough" ..."This one hurts"... Give the people you're trying to reach a reason to believe you.