MLB’s sign-stealing controversy broadens: Sources say the Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018

findguapo

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Henry should fire Cora for cause today. There is no good reason to keep him employed by the organization. It will also help show MLB that the ownership group is serious about this as they contemplate punishment.
 

Awesome Fossum

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If Cora had been hired this offseason (like Beltran), I'd be totally fine with firing him. It's definitely a fireable offense. But he's been here for two seasons, so I would hope the way he's conducted himself in Boston and the way he's treated the people around him would be the biggest weight on any scale.
 

bankshot1

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With what I've read so far, Cora while involved in the cheating, and along with the Astro's players operated with the knowledge of Hinch, and tacit approval of Hinch. This is not to excuse Cora in any regard, but until we know the extent of the cheating in 2018, I think Cora had an ethical work place dilemma in that his boss was aware of it, allowed it to be developed, and benefitted from it. I'm not sure how as an underling he gets nailed harder than Hinch.
 

JimD

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If I'm the Sox, I care way more about the loss of potential draft picks than Cora. Easy to find another manager.
Given the Apple watch scandal prior to Cora's hiring, I could see the Sox losing more draft picks than the Astros.
 

Awesome Fossum

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Henry should fire Cora for cause today. There is no good reason to keep him employed by the organization. It will also help show MLB that the ownership group is serious about this as they contemplate punishment.
If they fire him first, then the only way to punish the Red Sox is through fines and draft picks. Even if you're going to move on, you should probably keep him around to absorb a bullet first.
 

drbretto

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Agree with the tone of your post but disagree with the bolded. They were SO dominant and Boston's "method" was completely different. The 2018 postseason...cheating like the Sox did was impossible with MLB people in the video room, and they completely blitzed NY, Hou, and LA. So no, I have no doubt they were the best team in baseball in 2018.
Hope you're right! It's hard to stay rational about this as it's developing im just disappointed.
 

mauidano

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Going into the 2020 season this going to be an albatross around the neck of both of the organizations. It's going to be incessantly talked about. Cora has to go.
 

NomarsFool

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The alleged Red Sox scheme seems very complicated. I wonder if it was really at all useful.

The Astros one was zen simple - watch the signs, bang on trash can for off-speed pitch. Very easy (very brazen as well).
 

In my lifetime

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Maybe this will finally lead to football like microphone communications for pitch calling for pitcher, catcher and bench. A major benefit would also be shaving 10+ minutes off each game
 

findguapo

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If Cora had been hired this offseason (like Beltran), I'd be totally fine with firing him. It's definitely a fireable offense. But he's been here for two seasons, so I would hope the way he's conducted himself in Boston and the way he's treated the people around him would be the biggest weight on any scale.
He conducted himself in Boston by continuing to do this. He should be fired immediately.
 

bosockboy

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Assuming a lot of questions will come up about the 2018 ALCS. We rolled the Astros and many will wonder if it was because knew how to combat their sign stealing.
 

TimScribble

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So, wonder if this will give the Sox the excuse to blow the whole team up and trade everything, not re-sign Mookie, etc.
 

nvalvo

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He conducted himself in Boston by continuing to do this. He should be fired immediately.
People keep saying this, but there are huge differences between what the Astros were doing and what the Red Sox have so far been accused of doing.

Assuming a lot of questions will come up about the 2018 ALCS. We rolled the Astros and many will wonder if it was because knew how to combat their sign stealing.
I remember a much tenser series than you do.

For me, I remember the Astros jumping all over a healthy Chris Sale in the 2017 ALDS.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Assuming a lot of questions will come up about the 2018 ALCS. We rolled the Astros and many will wonder if it was because knew how to combat their sign stealing.
That's not even a question. The punishment will depend on how much the Sox used this in the playoffs. For what its worth the MLB probably inadvertently helped Cora and the Sox by monitoring the replay room for the playoffs. So that might actually help in terms of the severity of the punishment for the team. Cora himself is effed.

The 2017 watch stuff was under a different managerial regime. I could see if DD was still here but it's entirely unrelated.
 

BaseballJones

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For me, I remember the Astros jumping all over a healthy Chris Sale in the 2017 ALDS.
Sale's last 11 games of the regular season in 2017: 4.09 era, 1.18 whip. Not the same dominant Sale we had seen all year long.

But still, you don't expect Sale to get lit up for 7 runs and 9 hits in just 5 innings.
 

Average Reds

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With what I've read so far, Cora while involved in the cheating, and along with the Astro's players operated with the knowledge of Hinch, and tacit approval of Hinch. This is not to excuse Cora in any regard, but until we know the extent of the cheating in 2018, I think Cora had an ethical work place dilemma in that his boss was aware of it, allowed it to be developed, and benefitted from it. I'm not sure how as an underling he gets nailed harder than Hinch.
Based on what I've read in this thread - and the first few posts after the punishment was announced are instructive - this feels like you have it precisely backwards.

Hinch seems to have strongly disapproved of the system they came up with, and went as far as actually damaging monitors to demonstrate his disapproval. (Why he could simply not order it stopped is a good question, but it's reasonable to assume that he tried and was overruled.) By contrast, Cora is painted as an enthusiastic proponent.

Given the above and the fact that (1) Hinch got a year, and (2) Cora is under investigation for developing/implementing a new system in Boston, it's seems pretty obvious to me that Cora's punishment may be greater - perhaps significantly greater - than what Hinch got.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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So, wonder if this will give the Sox the excuse to blow the whole team up and trade everything, not re-sign Mookie, etc.
Ahh bring back the Tank Sox. ML Carr is actually available. Not sure how he feels about managing a baseball team but 20 bucks is 20 bucks.
 

Average Reds

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People keep saying this, but there are huge differences between what the Astros were doing and what the Red Sox have so far been accused of doing.
If you're asking me, I agree with you. What the Sox did strikes me as being nothing like what the Astros did. (And to be clear, I'm saying that it's far less serious.)

If you're asking what I think will happen, I look to what MLB is trying to communicate with the punishments today and believe that Cora's punishment will be epic.
 

joe dokes

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So, wonder if this will give the Sox the excuse to blow the whole team up and trade everything, not re-sign Mookie, etc.
Why would it do that? Its one manager, not 5 players. It shouldnt change their thinking (whatever it is) on 2020 at all.
 

bankshot1

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Based on what I've read in this thread - and the first few posts after the punishment was announced are instructive - this feels like you have it precisely backwards.

Hinch seems to have strongly disapproved of the system they came up with, and went as far as actually damaging monitors to demonstrate his disapproval. (Why he could simply not order it stopped is a good question, but it's reasonable to assume that he tried and was overruled.) By contrast, Cora is painted as an enthusiastic proponent.

Given the above and the fact that (1) Hinch got a year, and (2) Cora is under investigation for developing/implementing a new system in Boston, it's seems pretty obvious to me that Cora's punishment may be greater - perhaps significantly greater - than what Hinch got.
I may have it entirely wrong. But, before giving Cora the death sentence, I'd like to know what he did (ie. read the MLB investigation thst has yet to be issued) .

IMO that Hinch allowed it to go on he has a lot of culpability relative to an underling.
 

BaseballJones

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So if Luhnow and Hinch are not hired by people, does their suspension even "count" for 2020? Or does it begin once they get hired again?
 

TimScribble

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Why would it do that? Its one manager, not 5 players. It shouldnt change their thinking (whatever it is) on 2020 at all.
Because of the draft picks. Also, I doubt the Sox would try to skirt the punishment by blowing through the threshold since the picks are gone anyways.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I do wonder if DD's firing was partially related to his overseeing both Farrell and Cora. It probably wasn't hard to connect the dots once the Astros story and subsequent investigation got under way that Cora was involved. Firing DD for baseball reasons was justifiable but a bit of a stretch one year after winning it all, but firing DD for baseball reasons + being the head honcho while two different managers run sign stealing schemes is a no-brainer.
 

nvalvo

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Sale's last 11 games of the regular season in 2017: 4.09 era, 1.18 whip. Not the same dominant Sale we had seen all year long.

But still, you don't expect Sale to get lit up for 7 runs and 9 hits in just 5 innings.
I agree with you on both counts. That was the 10th worst start of Sale's career by Game Score.
 

JimD

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If you're asking me, I agree with you. What the Sox did strikes me as being nothing like what the Astros did. (And to be clear, I'm saying that it's far less serious.)

If you're asking what I think will happen, I look to what MLB is trying to communicate with the punishments today and believe that Cora's punishment will be epic.
Maybe, but the Sox were already warned by MLB thanks to the ridiculous Apple watch scandal. In that way, it's arguably worse.
 

cornwalls@6

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Cora is gone. Will never manage another Sox game, IMO. FTR, I think all of this is puritanical insanity, just like spy and deflate gate. But these commissioners are weaklings, who let media and fan noise drive all their decisions.
 

8slim

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I'll admit to not following this as closely as many of you, so feel free to pile on me for asking this potentially ignorant question, but why is MLB going nuclear over this? Sign stealing has been part of baseball since, well, forever. I get that what Houston (and Boston) did may have taken the technological aspect of it to a new level, but year-long suspensions? Firings? Massive draft penalties? I'm blown away at the severity of the punishment.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Houston Ownership doesn't _____ around. Wow. Later boys.... Henry has the bar set - could be quick.
Coming around to the "just fire Cora now and be done with it" school of thought. Given the findings already, does it really matter to what extent Cora tried and/or succeeded in bringing over to the Sox?
 

Ed Hillel

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This is so stupid, a Spygate-esque overreaction but even harsher (!!!), for the violation of stealing signs which are shown on TV every pitch. Now every fan will want every violation ever to mean every player suspended and every team get kicked out of the league. Next time, the league should send out a memo telling teams to throw a 2 down low and away and fire a fastball up and in. Problem solved.
 
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Cora is gone. Will never manage another Sox game, IMO. FTR, I think all of this is puritanical insanity, just like spy and deflate gate. But these commissioners are weaklings, who let media and fan noise drive all their decisions.
Manfred continues to be a stain on this game. I'd rather Selig at this point.
 

mauidano

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I'll admit to not following this as closely as many of you, so feel free to pile on me for asking this potentially ignorant question, but why is MLB going nuclear over this? Sign stealing has been part of baseball since, well, forever. I get that what Houston (and Boston) did may have taken the technological aspect of it to a new level, but year-long suspensions? Firings? Massive draft penalties? I'm blown away at the severity of the punishment.
I think the bottom line is what happens between the white lines is acceptable as it relates to "sign stealing, pitch tipping" etc.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I'll admit to not following this as closely as many of you, so feel free to pile on me for asking this potentially ignorant question, but why is MLB going nuclear over this? Sign stealing has been part of baseball since, well, forever. I get that what Houston (and Boston) did may have taken the technological aspect of it to a new level, but year-long suspensions? Firings? Massive draft penalties? I'm blown away at the severity of the punishment.
Like many of the NFL scandals, I suspect one aspect of the overreaction here is that there was video/audio - people on Twitter and YouTube could look up specific games and literally hear the banging. There's no actual reason that should make a difference but it's why I think this scandal got more attention. The success of the Astros also has something to do with it, of course - if this were the Padres I doubt anyone would particularly care.
 

Salem's Lot

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I'll admit to not following this as closely as many of you, so feel free to pile on me for asking this potentially ignorant question, but why is MLB going nuclear over this? Sign stealing has been part of baseball since, well, forever. I get that what Houston (and Boston) did may have taken the technological aspect of it to a new level, but year-long suspensions? Firings? Massive draft penalties? I'm blown away at the severity of the punishment.
Same reasons why the NFL reacted the way they did over Spygate. The New York media flipped out over it.