MLB’s sign-stealing controversy broadens: Sources say the Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018

OurF'ingCity

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Yeesh. Assuming there is ANY validity to the Sox 2018 investigation I don't see how Cora doesn't get a year as well (or more?), given that the write-up appears to suggest he was much more involved than Hinch.
 

canderson

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DJnVa

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It would be for 2018 when he was manager of the Sox
No, I get that. My point was this was the Astros investigation, not the Sox one, so it was weird to say Cora was getting suspended.

Of course, now the news that Cora was the one developing it.
 

Mooch

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Yeesh. Assuming there is ANY validity to the Sox 2018 investigation I don't see how Cora doesn't get a year as well (or more?), given that the write-up appears to suggest he was much more involved than Hinch.
I don't buy that for a second. The scheme went on long after Cora left the Astros. That seems like face-saving bullshit to throw your second-in-command under the bus like that.
 

drbretto

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Ouch, my fandom hurts.

If Cora orchestrated the whole thing, it's time to blow it all up. I have a decent amount of tolerance for this kind of thing, but this just makes it look like 2018 was manufactured. Not cool.
 

DJnVa

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Is it too early to start a thread on who is managing the 2020 Sox?
 

Mooch

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If this was a "player-driven scheme", why were no players disciplined?
 

JimD

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Well, shit. Cora very well might be kicked out of baseball.
I wouldn't have thought so before today, but given the steep penalties handed out, Cora is getting at least a one-year suspension. If he was anything but contrite and fully cooperating when he was questioned by MLB's investigators, he will end up on the ineligible list with Taubman.

I also think that Henry and company need to get out in front of this and at minimum suspend him with pay pending the outcome of the investigation. Let Bloom decide if he wants to keep Ron Roenicke as interim manager for now or start quietly interviewing for a new permanent manager.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Well it looks like he's going to get absolutely crushed by MLB and if so, they need a new manager for 2020 and probably beyond. Ouch.
Do they have much choice at this point other than to ride with Roenicke for this year at least? Not sure he's any worse than any other options at the moment and would bring some continuity, etc. (Of course, depending on the investigation specifically into the Sox, maybe he gets suspended too?)
 

johnnywayback

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My position on this is the same as it is on all such scandals, which is that it's sports and I find cheating more amusing than offensive. Everyone does as much of it as they think they can get away with, and life would be boring if that weren't the case.

All that said, I continue to question why the Red Sox think they can contend in 2020 when they're clearly the 3rd-best team in the division, have to trade one of their three best starters to get under the luxury tax, have no game-changing talent in the high minors, have a mediocre farm system and zero payroll space to acquire it from elsewhere, and now will be operating without their manager. Seems like it might be time to start thinking about what the next championship window might look like.
 

mr_smith02

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Not for Astros players. From the report: "I will not assess discipline against individual Astros players." Doesn't get more definitive than that.
The investigation into the Red Sox is ongoing and there were apparently players willing to express their opposition to whatever the Sox were doing.
 

drbretto

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Social media is exactly what you'd think. Buncha dummies out there complaining it's only a slap on the wrist. It was a stupid move to drop the hammer if this isn't isolated. Not one person out there will be satisfied. More shit will get called out over time. The game will never be "clean", but they'll be cleaning it up for forever.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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With tears in his eyes Peter Gammons scratches two names off the Good People's List.

So Hinch had so little control over his clubhouse that all he could do is strenuously object and smash monitors? Not a great look.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Cora it seems was the architect of this. If that's the case he is going to get smoked. Hinch's suspension seems akin to the old NCAA "Lack of Institutional Control". Wouldn't be shocked to see 2 years for Cora. More than likely only one but he's not managing this season. There's zero chance.

I'm interested in how Beltran despite being a player at the time can get away with being co ring leader with Cora.
Is it more than likely or zero chance?
 

bosockboy

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Given a baseball manager isn’t as valuable a commodity as an NFL coach, whatever the suspension he’s not worth waiting for. Just shitcan him and move on.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Cora is going to have the book thrown at him but his crime isn't cheating (as others have noted, sign stealing happens at every level of the sport all the way down to LL). He just got caught.

That said, I suspect that there will be lots of moralizing here and elsewhere. But it really does happen in youth leagues and I would not be at all surprised to find out that some practitioners use technology even at that level.
 

OurF'ingCity

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My position on this is the same as it is on all such scandals, which is that it's sports and I find cheating more amusing than offensive. Everyone does as much of it as they think they can get away with, and life would be boring if that weren't the case.

All that said, I continue to question why the Red Sox think they can contend in 2020 when they're clearly the 3rd-best team in the division, have to trade one of their three best starters to get under the luxury tax, have no game-changing talent in the high minors, have a mediocre farm system and zero payroll space to acquire it from elsewhere, and now will be operating without their manager. Seems like it might be time to start thinking about what the next championship window might look like.
I don't know that Cora's suspension, ban, whatever it ends up being should be the catalyst for Bloom et al. to do anything different. Baseball is the sport where managers make the least amount of difference - who the Sox manager is should have precisely zero to do whether the Sox sign Mookie (or JBJ, or trade Price, or trade Beni, etc. etc.).
 

drbretto

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If you're going to come up with a cheating (or at least cheating adjacent) scheme, it's probably not a good idea to use it to win back to back championships with two different teams, setting all time wins records in the process. I think I'm more disappointed by how stupid someone needs to be to think that was a good idea.

Even if this wasn't the reason the Sox did so well, in the history books, that's exactly what it looks like, so that is the final truth. Man, I don't think I want Cora back now.
 

uncannymanny

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I don't buy that for a second. The scheme went on long after Cora left the Astros. That seems like face-saving bullshit to throw your second-in-command under the bus like that.
Agreed. Awfully convenient that no one that is still there was involved. Cora is definitely done for at least a year, but I think we should pump the brakes when we only have the Astros finger pointing on record.
 

nvalvo

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I don't buy that for a second. The scheme went on long after Cora left the Astros. That seems like face-saving bullshit to throw your second-in-command under the bus like that.
I don't know. This is so obviously a bench coach sort of duty that it was always obvious Cora had to be involved in working it up if it started while he was there.
 

curly2

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Cora is going to banned for life for this I think.
Even if he isn't, he may have earned his last MLB-related paycheck.

Figuring he gets a year at least, the Sox have to move on and hire a manager, and they'll need to offer a multi-year contract to get anybody good.

And if (when) the Sox fire Cora, other teams may find him too toxic to ever hire again.
 

BaseballJones

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Ouch, my fandom hurts.

If Cora orchestrated the whole thing, it's time to blow it all up. I have a decent amount of tolerance for this kind of thing, but this just makes it look like 2018 was manufactured. Not cool.
Agree with the tone of your post but disagree with the bolded. They were SO dominant and Boston's "method" was completely different. The 2018 postseason...cheating like the Sox did was impossible with MLB people in the video room, and they completely blitzed NY, Hou, and LA. So no, I have no doubt they were the best team in baseball in 2018.
 

joe dokes

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Since Hinch and Luhnow didnt get a year -- today to end of 2020 WS -- a year for Cora is more than that.
 

Salem's Lot

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The should just fire him now and be done with it. Let the new GM you just hired pick his manager. I liked Cora, but he wasn’t such a game changer in that position that it’s worth this aggravation.
 

OurF'ingCity

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If I'm the Sox, I care way more about the loss of potential draft picks than Cora. Easy to find another manager.
Agreed, so it really depends on how much of the scheme Cora brought over. I haven't seen any allegations that the "banging" system was used in Boston so assuming that is true I doubt the Sox get the steep draft penalties the Astros got, though that doesn't mean they won't get some kind of draft penalty.
 

BoSox Rule

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Since Hinch and Luhnow didnt get a year -- today to end of 2020 WS -- a year for Cora is more than that.
It’s a season long suspension, if you’re basing this off Passans unnecessary clarification I don’t even know why he tweeted that.