MLB’s sign-stealing controversy broadens: Sources say the Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018

joyofsox

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Manfred being Manfred.

On January 2, Manfred writes a letter to Luhnow: "There is more than sufficient evidence to support a conclusion that you knew — and overwhelming evidence that you should have known ..."
On January 7, Manfred releases MLB's report and "more than sufficient evidence" has been watered down to "some knowledge of those efforts, but [Luhnow] did not give it much attention".
 

EnochRoot

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Wow, thanks for the link!

Luhnow's denial is pathetic. This isn't even a he said-he said vis a vis communication between Luhnow and Koch-Weser; the scheme was referenced in multiple emails to Luhnow and is therefore documented! "I didn't read that far into the email." Oy. Regardless of his claims, he SHOULD have known about it, and, given the nature of the organization's new "capability" (it was referred to as "codebreaker" and "dark arts" fercryinoutloud!), he SHOULD have inquired to understand exactly how it was being used. But, of course, he did exactly that. Are you a liar, sir, or just a completely incompetent leader? I'm going with the former.
Exactly. And this interview was run on MLB because it was the version of the truth it wants you to digest. That interview was conducted (Verducci got played here) without that WSJ article having dropped. Somehow I don’t think Tom Verducci asks the same hardball questions where Hinch gets to come out as a guy who simply did not do the right thing.
 

Teachdad46

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This is so Bill Clintonesque: "Luhnow opened the emails, but told investigators he did not read to the bottom of them."
 

pjr

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Jon Heyman

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3h

The report on the Red Sox is expected to come from MLB by the end of the month. The allegations against them are far less egregious than the ones that resulted in MLB’s report and punishments in the Astros case.
 

OurF'ingCity

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I think it's becoming increasingly clear that MLB's Red Sox investigation revealed that a shitload of teams were doing similar things as the Red Sox and so MLB doesn't want to give anything more than a slap on the wrist to the Sox for fear that anything more might result in a Deflategate situation where the Sox start a counter-PR narrative pointing out all the evidence that other teams were doing stuff too.

But I guess we'll have to wait and see what the penalties actually are.
 

joe dokes

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I wonder if any of Luhnow's arrogance stems from the fact that he was the victim of the Cardinals' break-in and thought that MLB would never go after him after that.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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So who was Evan Drellich chummy with when he was working the beat in Boston? Were there any players that were his "go to" for interviews, quotes or comments? I'll bet that's where he went for his sources on this story.
 
Jan 31, 2020
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I think it's becoming increasingly clear that MLB's Red Sox investigation revealed that a shitload of teams were doing similar things as the Red Sox and so MLB doesn't want to give anything more than a slap on the wrist to the Sox for fear that anything more might result in a Deflategate situation where the Sox start a counter-PR narrative pointing out all the evidence that other teams were doing stuff too.

But I guess we'll have to wait and see what the penalties actually are.
I think the terms gamesmanship is going to be heard a bit over the course of the month. Basically everyone is trying to get an edge. The Yankees were already outed by a few ex-players such as Chris Young and Logan Morrison for trying to do this for years. The Astros went overboard with everything and should be ridiculed and have the book thrown at them.
 

Van Everyman

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So who was Evan Drellich chummy with when he was working the beat in Boston? Were there any players that were his "go to" for interviews, quotes or comments? I'll bet that's where he went for his sources on this story.
Drellich was the dude Price accosted in the tunnel, right?

Not Price.
 

OCD SS

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Probably worthwhile to remember that Cora wasn’t fired, he and the FO mutually agreed he should step down so as not to become a distraction.

Even if the Sox scheme in 2018 is minor (& common across baseball) and the penalty for it is light, he will likely still receive some sort of suspension/ penalty for what he did with the Astros (even if he isn’t the nefarious ring leader Lunhow & Hinch tried to paint him as). That doesn’t mean he won’t still be a distraction in the short term, though.

I am hopeful that the Sox can push back on that narrative of it is not true and that he can eventually be reinstated.
 

burstnbloom

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We know he masterminded in Houston, so a one year absence from the dugout seems appropriate
According to the wall street journal, codebreaker rolled out before Cora arrived and continued after he left. It was always a little too convenient that the bad guy in Houston wasn't part of the organization anymore.
 

Average Reds

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We know he masterminded in Houston, so a one year absence from the dugout seems appropriate
It’s impossible to read the report on Houston and conclude that he won’t face the same punishment as Hinch. Or worse.

This notion that he could serve in another capacity for a year seems like wishcastkng.
 

OCD SS

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According to the wall street journal, codebreaker rolled out before Cora arrived and continued after he left. It was always a little too convenient that the bad guy in Houston wasn't part of the organization anymore.
… or that he was essentially an assistant to someone in middle-management (Hinch).

The discrepancy in the Houston report with Cora as mastermind, and what has come out after with Codebreaker, ought to be an interesting circle for the Sox report to square.
 

Van Everyman

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My guess is that they won’t try to square it.

The official story is that Cora devised the system w Beltran in Houston. That’s not changing absent clear evidence to the contrary. Assuming it turns out people were peeking at video replay in Boston under his watch, the report will most likely simply conclude it was his responsibility to monitor that as manager and he failed, and then get on with his punishment. That way, where Houston becomes the poster child for nefarious efforts to sign steal, we become the poster child for the replay sneak peeking, both teams have received deserving punishment and the MLB tries to move on.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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It’s impossible to read the report on Houston and conclude that he won’t face the same punishment as Hinch. Or worse.

This notion that he could serve in another capacity for a year seems like wishcastkng.
Right. Manfred’s criticism of Cora was his active participation by being on the dugout phone and thus giving players the sense that cheating was management approved.

Agree or disagree, that was his concern. Or one of them. And the timing of codebreaker doesn’t change that.
 

richgedman'sghost

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It’s impossible to read the report on Houston and conclude that he won’t face the same punishment as Hinch. Or worse.

This notion that he could serve in another capacity for a year seems like wishcastkng.
How bout he take Steve Lyons place on the pre and post game shows on NESN? I know under Hinch"s suspension he cannot be in the ballpark for at least a year, but nothing would seem to prevent Alex Cora from doing studio work. He was pretty good on ESPN I thought.
 

YTF

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How bout he take Steve Lyons place on the pre and post game shows on NESN? I know under Hinch"s suspension he cannot be in the ballpark for at least a year, but nothing would seem to prevent Alex Cora from doing studio work. He was pretty good on ESPN I thought.
Under the circumstances I would think any conversations between TC and Cora as to any questions of in game decision making or organizational philosophies concerning what goes on in the field might look like this.
28532
 

lexrageorge

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The chances of Cora being involved with the team this year are zero.

I think it's reasonable to guess that Cora gets a year suspension, possibly two. The latter would be wrong, but both Cora and the team would be considered "double offenders". However, once that suspension is over, there is a very high chance that Cora gets to manage in MLB again, and a non-zero chance that team is the Red Sox.
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

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The chances of Cora being involved with the team this year are zero.

I think it's reasonable to guess that Cora gets a year suspension, possibly two. The latter would be wrong, but both Cora and the team would be considered "double offenders". However, once that suspension is over, there is a very high chance that Cora gets to manage in MLB again, and a non-zero chance that team is the Red Sox.

Cora cheated to try to win the WS and that's unconscionable. He was 41year old, knew it was wrong and did it anyway. The Dodgers haven't won since 1988 and were hammered in the press last year after losing to the Nationals. If they had won in 2017 the reaction wouldn't have been nearly as bad. Kershaw getting lit up in Houston after pitching well in game one only added to his reputation as a post season choker. The ramifications from the cheating were huge and they can't be fixed.

I understand that you guys are supportive of Cora, but the Red Sox shouldn't ever bring him back:

 

JimD

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Assuming that Cora gets whacked by MLB and Ron Roenicke doesn't bring us Morgan Magic 2.0, I'd rather that Chaim find the *next* Alex Cora. I just think that Cora himself would bring too much baggage in a Boston return - every little suspicion whispered from other teams to the Athletic or ESPN guys would result in a guilty-until-proven-innocent media sh*tshow.
 

jon abbey

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The Astros one took forever also, I don't think MLB is really set up for this kind of thing, or for multiple overlapping investigations.
 

edoug

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MLB investigators are digging deep to find something, and are interviewing Dave Roberts about how he signaled Bill Mueller from 2nd base.
It's simple. If you stand up and get the excess dirt off your uniform, it's a cutter.
 

edoug

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You might be right, but it was reported that after Roberts stole 2nd, there was an audible buzz
I think that was just the sound of a little air coming out of the Yankees balloon.
 

rajendra82

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You might be right, but it was reported that after Roberts stole 2nd, there was an audible buzz
Francona has also been caught on camera saying he gave an eye wink signal to Roberts to the effect of, "Go get 'em, big boy". Sounds like a confession of cheating to me.
 

Van Everyman

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To this day the most unprecedented thing about 2004 wasn’t that the Red Sox won – it’s that the breaks (ie, Tony Clark) and the umps (ie, The Slap) didn’t screw us.
 

InstaFace

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Yeah that's pretty standard judge-speak, with tough questions for both sides. I rather doubt the judge is going to create an implicit duty, a representation that everyone participating in the sport is always adhering to the rules the sport has set for itself, out of thin air. And if he did, the implications for MLB and every other sport would be immediate and bizarre and the amicus briefs in the appeal would fill an SUV.
 

DJnVa

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Got a push notification to my phone that said if the MLB season is cancelled it's possible that Luhnow and Hinch could be back in their roles in 2021, as the suspensions were written in a way that bans them for a calendar year and not an actual baseball season.

One wonders, if they ever announce a Sox penalty and it hits Cora, if they will write it the same way.