I would be shocked if he was effectively prosecuted based on what we know. I don’t expect his career to be over either with his team pressing the “all he did was what she asked” narrative to MLB.
MLB suspends Trevor Bauer for 2 years with no pay
- Thread starter ThePrideofShiner
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You can’t consent if your unconscious and you can’t consent in advance to sexual activity while you’re unconscious at a future time. As soon as you lose consciousness, consent is withdrawn. Now, the defense is having a reasonable mistake of fact that the person was still conscious. The blurry line is when alcohol is involved and the victim does not remember events so assumes they were unconscious, asleep, or otherwise unaware of the sexual contact/act but in reality the person is just blacked out from alcohol and still conscious and functioning (and thus able to make decisions and manifest consent or lack of consent).
What is the law to consenting to be choked unconscious? I’m not being obtuse I’m interested in knowing as this is crucial information based on the texts.
You can’t consent to acts that constitute a means likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm. So, there’s certainly a choking element that can be part of what I would consider “rough sex.” Choking (and technically, we’re really talking strangulation) comes in a variety of fashions from light pressure to something that can cause death. You can’t consent to being killed or seriously injured. Like, I can’t tell you I want you to stab me multiple times in the torso because I think it would be sexually gratifying. It’s too dangerous and something that could cause me death or serious permanent injuries. I mean, I can tell you that I want you to do it but it doesn’t give you a legal justification to do so. Contrast that with an individual requesting to be scratched during sex.
I would argue that being strangled to the point of unconsciousness is a means likely to cause death or grevious bodily harm and thus consent (or mistake of fact as to you consent) is not a valid defense. Sometimes, the strangling occurs which causes the victim to withdraw consent (in situations where this isn’t discussed in advance or where the victim experiences too much pressure/pain) and that can get added to the chargesheet as a separate assault in addition to the sexual assault (assuming the sexual act continues after the withdrawn consent).
Thank you. Is there a precedent ruling for sexual asphyxia gone wrong? If what you’re saying is correct, I’m not doubting only probing to learn, wouldn’t that mean that any form of this act is not legally considered consent?
To some extent, you’re splitting hairs when it comes to simple negligence, gross negligence, wanton disregard, or willful misconduct. And I’m not sure how California comes down on the differences here. But if you agree to strangulation based on your partner’s proclivity, you’re taking some risk on yourself that you don’t go too far. You could face prosecution, you may successfully defend yourself, but it’s still a risk and a lot of it comes down to what the reasonably prudent person would have done in your situation given the facts and circumstances surrounding the event. I think a lot of people in these situations, even if the act goes past what is consented, do not report. So, legally consenting to something and consenting to something where you won’t report it is the real difference here.
Like, we could agree to do some MMA style sparing, but if you keep choking me or punching me after I passed out and I’m obviously passed out, you could be prosecuted, especially if I died. Now, presumably, your defense is, you didn’t know I was unconscious so the beating continued. But if you ignored my obvious signs of unconsciousness and continued the fight, you could be prosecuted if I decided I wanted to report you for beating excessively after I was unconscious. Of course, maybe I’m embarrassed you beat me so badly and I say nothing and go to the hospital and receive treatment for my injuries and just say, yeah, I was doing some MMA training and I’m not very good.
Bauer's done for the year (to no one's surprise). The MLBPA signing off on this is interesting.
View: https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1436385278952939526
View: https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/1436385278952939526
I was thinking about this today, and I wonder 2 things: How much jail time will he get, and/or is his career over? It sounds like the vast majority of the dodgers players do not want him back under any circumstance.
Bauer will not face any criminal charges in the LA court system. MLB investigation remains active.
View: https://twitter.com/britt_ghiroli/status/1491153373458210816?s=21
View: https://twitter.com/britt_ghiroli/status/1491153373458210816?s=21
Sounds like Bauer won’t be active to begin the season.
View: https://twitter.com/jonheyman/status/1504568939141115909?s=21
And a better source, albeit paywalled
https://theathletic.com/news/trevor-bauers-administrative-leave-extended-through-april-16-source/7lQPrsxxn2xz/
View: https://twitter.com/jonheyman/status/1504568939141115909?s=21
And a better source, albeit paywalled
https://theathletic.com/news/trevor-bauers-administrative-leave-extended-through-april-16-source/7lQPrsxxn2xz/
I didn’t realize he is still being paid and only wouldn’t had he been suspended.
Take your $100m and get lost kid.
Take your $100m and get lost kid.
Twitter breakdown of his lawsuit. I'm not a lawyer, but this one rips Bauer's lawsuit to shreds.
View: https://twitter.com/AkivaMCohen/status/1509493633657020418
Question for the lawyers here, is this an accurate take, or is this guy off base? I really have no idea.
Wow. And it doesn't count "time served" already. Probably is the effective end of his career. Certainly the end of his time in Los Angeles since the suspension is longer than his remaining contract.
Chapman got 30 games for firing a shotgun next to his wife's head, as I recall. I don't want to defend Bauer, but this seems excessive. It's like the MLB is stepping in and saying the justice system got it wrong so they'll make up for it.
I'll say one thing, this sure puts pressure on Goodell regarding Watson...
I'll say one thing, this sure puts pressure on Goodell regarding Watson...
The union will be taking this to an arbitrator for sure. He’s not getting two years when the criminal charges were already dropped. This is massive overstep by MLB.
Per PeteAbe, this is the first suspension under the policy that wasn't negotiated by both sides. I wonder if that plays a role in the discrepancy with past suspension lengths.
Gotta wonder what their investigation turned up for them to go this harsh.
I’m sure the owners don’t mind the union going to bat for the unlikeable asshole who broke a woman’s skull during sex.
Your recollection is off when it comes to the shotgun and shooting it next to his wife's head (not that the rest of it is any good):
"Chapman's girlfriend alleged that he choked her after an argument over some text messages on his phone. Chapman then went out to a detached garage on his property and fired eight shots from a handgun, one of which flew through a window and into an open field, according to police reports."
Right. And just because they got past suspensions wrong doesn't mean they shouldn't drop the hammer here.
This is the first time I can remember a pro sports league suspending a player for conduct and me thinking they got it right
There's also the other incident in Ohio (where another woman sought a protective order), which also makes it distinct from Chapman
I mean from his Wikipedia page alone you get some wonderful nuggets like
But yeah, I think this is a big part of it too - not only his he not apologetic, he's literally suiting the women who accused him. If MLB thinks those allegations are true, that's a huge difference
I mean from his Wikipedia page alone you get some wonderful nuggets like
MLB may just want him gone.
If the arbitrator thinks it's too much. Seems pretty obvious that the Dodgers don't want him back (for reasons unrelated to the case, I don't think he's very popular with teammates) and want the suspension to last the remainder of his contract. And don't want to cut him either since they'd be on the hook.
I was under the impression that he is unpopular with his teammates (and players in general) because of this situation. Is that not the case?
What if no one in the league wants to play with him? He's toxic. Having him associated to your brand in 2022 is bad for business. I doubt any player on any team would want to be associated with Trevor Bauer. No good can come out of it and it would be a huge distraction.
I know plenty of people who don't follow sports at all and cringe at the name of Trevor Bauer. And a lot of it is because he's unapologietc and brash.
Yeah, my first thought is this rather conveniently lines up with the remainder of his Dodgers contract.
It also lines up conveniently with the fact that he’s a misogynistic sociopath.
I wonder if it was someone other than Bauer who regularly rips Manfred, how long he would have gotten.
Him being a douchebag isn't grounds for letting the Dodgers essentially void his contract though.
It seems a very strange thought process to prefer the Dodgers not get a financial break than see MLB do the right thing and come down hard on horrific behavior.
Those "in the know" are saying MLB is going to do everything possible to make sure this sticks. Methinks there is at least a small percentage of CYA going on here, too, like the investigation found stuff that had been covered up or hidden from them about his past that make Bauer just radioactive and will further tarnish MLB if it gets out. If not, the league is basically giving him the death penalty for off-the-field stuff, which is a little odd in light of no criminal charges being filed.
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The timing of this announcement coming on the same day a third woman has come forward can’t be a coincidence.
Based on current public knowledge, it seems like a bit of an overreach. I guess it's better than MLB's past approach, though… as far as I can tell, Josh Lueke missed some playing time in the minors in 2009 while he was incarcerated and pleading down to avoid a rape conviction, but never received any suspension (he lied through the whole process, never seemed to show any public remorse and bitched about fans constantly chanting "rapist" at him). Then Matt Bush lost four seasons while he was serving a 39 month sentence for DUI with great bodily injury. However, MLB seemed to use his prison time as the only form of suspension... his only suspension I could turn up was at the beginning of his pro career for a bar fight.
MLB and the MLBPA announced a domestic violence policy in August 2015, so that puts Lueke outside the scope of that, and may actually been one of probably many events that pushed them towards coming up with a policy.
Not that MLB has ever covered itself in glory when dealing with such things.
Not that MLB has ever covered itself in glory when dealing with such things.
It would be great if the Dodgers donated his salaries to a charity but I'd rather the Dodgers get a break than Bauer be paid.
I don't see why it matters if there were no criminal charges or what he did was legal or illegal if they are trying to protect the brand image. Bauer already is radioactive. The off field stuff is really bad.
I could see the Dodgers forced to pay him but I doubt Bauer ever pitches for the MLB again.
Jesus. I haven't been following this very closely and didn't realize there was a second accuser, let alone a third.
Bauer suspension cut to 194 games ... 144 served last season
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35306975/dodgers-trevor-bauer-suspension-cut-reinstated-immediately
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/35306975/dodgers-trevor-bauer-suspension-cut-reinstated-immediately
Bauer has been reinstated after a neutral arbitrator reduced his suspension to 194 games, down from 324 games. He'll miss the first 50 games next season and is then eligible to return:
https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2022-12-22/trevor-bauer-suspension-reduced-dodgers-rob-manfred
https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2022-12-22/trevor-bauer-suspension-reduced-dodgers-rob-manfred
I have to think the Dodgers will release him. Wouldn't surprise me if he ends up out here if no MLB teams will touch him, a la Roberto Osuna.