MLB Network show: The Impossible Dream - Red Sox Nation Begins

Lose Remerswaal

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Taped this last night and watching now. Tons of footage I've never seen before. Great retelling of the 1967 season story with lots of interviews with the players of the time (Yaz, Rico, Reggie Smith, etc) and media (including CHB). I had forgotten about the fight at Yankee Stadium and a few other bits.

Well worth watching. MLB is reshowing this many times over the next few days.
 

Al Zarilla

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Fantastic production. Only problem was I kept having to brush these pesky water drops from my eyes.

Dick Williams' one prediction was that the '67 team would win more games than they'd lose. I remember going to the beach (Hampton Beach) on Memorial Day and the Sox swept the doubleheader from the Angels to go over .500 and never go back under. I was thinking of Williams' prediction. Transistor radio was on all day of course.
 

Joe Shlabotnick

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This was the year I became a true Red Sox fan. I followed them a bit in 1966, but went all in in 1967. I went through so many batteries that summer, what with the transistor radio constantly tuned to WTIC. I remember taking my radio and earphone into 7th grade shop class to listen to Game 7 of the World Series. I ran the cord under my shirt so my teacher wouldn't see it. Of course he saw it, but he let it slide. Even though Lonnie lost that game on short rest, it didn't matter. I was hooked.
 

RoDaddy

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Lots of great footage and interviews. It was an amazing time and year for Boston/NE sports because interestingly, a similar thing was also happening with the Orr-led Bruins. I remember one night going bowling with some buds and ending up, along with everyone else in the place, glued to the TV watching the B's with hardly anyone left bowling!. So I'm not sure if '67 was a Red Sox renaissance as much as it was a NE sports renaissance - at least for those 2 teams
 
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TomBrunansky23

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Question for the old timers on here - did people really say pre-1967 that they wished the Sox had moved instead of the Braves? I'd never heard that one before. Weren't the Braves essentially bottom-feeders (save for the 1948 pennant) and always in financial trouble?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Question for the old timers on here - did people really say pre-1967 that they wished the Sox had moved instead of the Braves? I'd never heard that one before. Weren't the Braves essentially bottom-feeders (save for the 1948 pennant) and always in financial trouble?
Not an old-timer, but the Milwaukee Braves featured Hank Aaron and Eddie Mathews and Warren Spahn in a time where the Sox lone star was an aged Ted Williams (sure Yaz was there in the 60s but wasn't YAZ until '67). The Braves won a World Series,lost another, and never finished below .500 while they were in Milwaukee while the Red Sox never finished better than 3rd in that time and spiraled downward after '57. I can definitely see where the Braves appeared to be the "one that got away" even if they never really amounted to much when they were in Boston.
 

Humphrey

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What's amazing is that in the years between when the Braves moved from Boston and the Sox won the 67 pennant the Braves were (a) successful on the field (b) popular at the box office (in 1950s and 60s terms) and (c) moved again.
 

Al Zarilla

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Question for the old timers on here - did people really say pre-1967 that they wished the Sox had moved instead of the Braves? I'd never heard that one before. Weren't the Braves essentially bottom-feeders (save for the 1948 pennant) and always in financial trouble?
I don't remember any of that. The Braves attendance was pitiful in 1951 and 1952 (mid 6 thousands per game in 51 and mid 3 thousands in 52, but, at least by 1952, it was "out" that they were leaving. Fans deserted them. Sox averaged over 10K per game in 1966, not as bad as the show made it out to be. Sox outdrew the Braves through the war years and even in 1948 when the Braves went to the World Series. Once they blossomed in Milwaukee, saying the wrong team left was like saying you should have stayed with your ugly duckling GF who transformed into Miss America after you dumped her. Politically incorrect there. Maybe.

My father in law liked the Braves as much as, maybe more than the Sox when he was growing up because he grew up in Brighton and could get to Braves games more easily. Overall though, the Red Sox were the preferred team when there were two teams in Boston, like forever.
 

geoflin

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TomBrunansky23 said:
Question for the old timers on here - did people really say pre-1967 that they wished the Sox had moved instead of the Braves? I'd never heard that one before. Weren't the Braves essentially bottom-feeders (save for the 1948 pennant) and always in financial trouble?
I don't remember that either. There was always love for the Red Sox, it's just that they had been so bad for so long that people kind of gave up on them, thinking they had no chance to win. But all it took was a couple of good months, as noted in the show, and attendance quickly rose. The turning point was the 10 game winning streak, the last 6 on the road. I went to about 40 games that year, most of them in the bleachers which were $1 at the time. At first there were very few people there but the numbers increased as the year went on so by August I had to start getting there earlier to get a good seat (everything was unreserved then). The bleachers were just benches and there was a tall chain link fence between them and the seats in right field so there was no access to the rest of Fenway Park from the bleachers.
 

Didot Fromager

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Apr 23, 2010
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Question for the old timers on here - did people really say pre-1967 that they wished the Sox had moved instead of the Braves? I'd never heard that one before. Weren't the Braves essentially bottom-feeders (save for the 1948 pennant) and always in financial trouble?
I never heard that but I used to hear a lot of chatter that the Red Sox would move just like the Braves. It wasn't that the wrong team moved, it was that both would go. This whispering became even louder when the Braves moved from Milwaukee to Atlanta. The franchise shifts in the 1950s and 1960s (Washington & Milwaukee) had a lot of people convinced that owners (even the saintly at that time Tom Yawkey) cared more about money than Boston.

It wasn't all that far-fetched either. I think things hit rock bottom in 1965 (62-100, 9th place). Attendance was only 8,000 per game (which remarkably was better than the Angels, A's, and Senators) and was the worst attendance for the Red Sox since WWII. It wasn't at all unrealistic that a lousy team with bad attendance at an ancient crumbling ballpark would want to go somewhere else.
 

TomBrunansky23

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Thanks guys, I don't recall if it was CHB or Ryan who made that statement during the film but it struck me as odd.

On another note, being too young to have experienced it, I am sorry I never got to live through a true pennant race in the pre-divisional era. I can't imagine how intense it had to have been during that last weekend with the Twins in '67.
 

fenwaypaul

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I thoroughly enjoyed the program, especially the reminiscences by Rico, Yaz, Lonborg, and Mike Andrews. I never get tired of reliving that incredible season. I would have enjoyed it even more if Bob Ryan had taken the trouble to clip his nosehairs before getting in front of the camera, and if Mike Barnicle had never gotten in front of the camera at all.
 

ledsox

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Really loved the show and the rarely seen footage. Never knew how high that Tartabull throw was. Great job by the catcher (Gibson?) clipping Berry's leg as he slid into the plate. It was neat hearing Coleman's call of the play, but I like Ned's better (from the LP).
Fantastic seeing Yaz and the rest with the detailed memories. I'll probably watch again this week as well as the dvd of game 161 vs Minn.
 

Al Zarilla

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Really loved the show and the rarely seen footage. Never knew how high that Tartabull throw was. Great job by the catcher (Gibson?) clipping Berry's leg as he slid into the plate. It was neat hearing Coleman's call of the play, but I like Ned's better (from the LP).
Fantastic seeing Yaz and the rest with the detailed memories. I'll probably watch again this week as well as the dvd of game 161 vs Minn.
DVD of game 161? Who has that?
 

geoflin

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Really loved the show and the rarely seen footage. Never knew how high that Tartabull throw was. Great job by the catcher (Gibson?) clipping Berry's leg as he slid into the plate.
The catcher was Elston Howard
 

MuzzyField

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Just watched it. It was great! I had yet to celebrate a birthday, so there was plenty to discover.

At the 46 minute mark, why did the last game against the Twins go to the bottom of the 9th at Fenway with the Sox leading? Was that a script mistake or something else?
 

Al Zarilla

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Just watched it. It was great! I had yet to celebrate a birthday, so there was plenty to discover.

At the 46 minute mark, why did the last game against the Twins go to the bottom of the 9th at Fenway with the Sox leading? Was that a script mistake or something else?
The narrator made a mistake saying the Red Sox took a 5-3 lead into the bottom of the ninth. They then showed the last out in the top of the ninth, the popup to Petrocelli. Good catch (yours, Rico's was easy). Down 2-0 going into the bottom of the sixth was scary. They said Dean Chance hurt his arm but he gave up four hits (the first a bunt single by Lonborg) and a fielder's choice before he came out. Anyway, Sox won. And, won the pennant.
 

h8mfy

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I just watched the end of the 11 am PT Thursday showing on MLB net and it sounded like they edited out that mistake about the top/bottom of 9th. They also interrupted the showing with "breaking news" and analysis about Quintana to Cubs so I'll have to re-record to get the full show.
 

bankshot1

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Oh, there was a gate from the bleachers. But at $1 for bleachers we preferred $.75 for General Admission (RF corner), cuz it was such easier to get past the ushers from there to the rest of the park.
Ditto on the value of the $0.75 RF grandstand, the seats sucked but by the 6th inning my friends and I were generally in box seats
 

LoweTek

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When I tuned in to the middle of this the other day it was during the part where Rico Petrocelli and Mike Andrews were talking about the final games against the Twins. It was quite funny to hear Rico talk about how tough Dean Chance was on the last day. I'll tell you why.

About 25 years ago, I went to an event in Winter Haven prior to Spring Training where one of the features was a Red Sox trivia contest MC'd by Ken Coleman. Teams would be formed consisting of three non-players and a Red Sox alumni. I was on a four man team with Rico Petrocelli.

There were two questions from the '67 season I remember well. One, alluded to earlier in the thread, was regarding the Rohr game, "Elston Howard broke it up but who made the last out?"

The other one was, "Who was the Twins starter for the last game?"

I can remember thinking we were a lock because we had Rico. Not so fast.

He was sure Kaat had started Sunday and had no idea who made the last out in the Rohr game!

Remarkably, one of the other guys on the team knew the Rohr game answer: Charlie Smith. I was amazed.

I convinced Rico and the others to go with Chance for the Sunday game, saying I was sure of it.

We were the winning team, mostly because of the Charlie Smith answer nobody else got. The other teams were pretty well split between Kaat and Chance.

With regard to the attendance, as the season wore on and the team continued to have success, attendance went from dismal, especially weeknights, to near capacity late July on. Even the Tuesday game prior to the Twins two-gamer at the end only drew 16k. Opening day against CHW, a pretty good team that year, drew just 8k! Imagine that in this era?

For those curious: http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1967-schedule-scores.shtml
 

Norm Siebern

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Great program. Enjoyed going down memory lane. I marveled at the retelling of how Lonborg became a brush back pitcher, as he put it "protecting his teammates."

The pitching coach that year was Sal Maglie, who didn't exactly earn the nickname "the Barber" in his playing days because he had a fondness for "Sweeny Todd." In spring training Maglie told Lonborg that "Gentlman Jim" was too nice, and if he wanted to truly commit himself to winning, he would have to take the inner half of the plate. Lonborg did, going as far as marking notches on his glove for every opposing batter he hit, the way an airforce ace would mark enemy shoot downs on the fuselage of his own plane. I think the number Lonborg marked approached the high teens eventually.

It's amazing now to look at that Yankees game with the brawl that is highlighted in the program. After Joe Foy got beaned by Thad Tillotson (in retaliation for a grand slam the night before), Lonborg then beaned Tillotson. Who then hit Lonborg when Lonnie came to bat. Then Lonborg hit, I think, Pepitone and brushed back another Yankee. So four hit batters, a few more brush backs, a brawl, and...no one got thrown out. No fines. After Pepitone got hit, the umps called out both managers and said it was time to stop, but that was it. Quite a different game than today.

Is it better now? All you have to do is watch ten more minutes of the episode. Anyone who knows what happened to Tony C. would in my opinion have a hard time saying its a bad thing beanball wars have pretty much stopped.

One things for sure, it is a different game.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Loved it. I was 6 years old in 1967, and that Red Sox season comprises a lot of the earliest memories I have.

One thing I thought was awesome was the shot of Ted Kennedy and Hubert Humphrey taking their seats together in the Fenway boxes to watch the Twins play the Sox in Game 162.

The film also backed up a story I remember reading (I think in Yaz's first autobiography, the one written by Al Hirshberg) about the brawl in Yankee Stadium. The benches emptied, but nobody was going to really do anything...until Petrocelli grabbed a handful of dirt and playfully threw it at Peptone. They were high school pals from Brooklyn, and a friend of mine who is still close with them says they still can't stop arguing about who won the fight.
 

cheekydave

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I was 8 years old, the first season I remember watching the Sox. Watching this literally has me tingling, it is SO long ago, it is one moment ago. I am going to show this to my 6 year old daughter, she watches all the games with me. The day the Sox won the pennant, my mum died. That season due to both the Sox coming to life, and my Mom dying, resulted in the Sox becoming pretty much my whole life. Man, this is incredible to watch now, as an adult, and be 8 years old again.
 

section15

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Actually to transfer from the bleachers to the grandstand was only fifty cents - general admission (when available) was $1.50. When the Sox were "sparsely supported" my wife and I would spend $3 and just quietly migrate to empty grandstand seats around the basepaths - behind home plate, that was often empty.

But anyway a coupla thoughts --

- Dick Williams made the observation that "we'll win more than we lose." In 1966, from late July forward, the Sox were over .500. With some up and coming players, Lonborg - Santiago - Petrocelli - and Tony C coming to maturity around Yaz, the 1967 looked bright, even in Winter Haven.

- I did not get a chance to see the MLB network show. I have seen , and I own, the "Impossible to Believe" two-DVD set. The "main feature" is a string of interviews with fans and reporters. BUT - the only reporter interviewed - who was THERE - was the late, great Bud Collins. Others (Ryan, MacMillan) **WEREN'T** there. I think Bob Ryan was in college - but Jackie MacMullan was in 1st grade.

Hells bells, I WAS there.

- Game 161 (for Boston, game 163 for Minnesota, yes, 163 - The Twins were involved in two official "tie games" that year. Cesar Tovar played in all 164) was played on the last Saturday of the 1967 season. That game - in nearly its entirety - is on the "bonus DVD". Video quality = excellent. So is the WHDH-TV "Impossible Dream" season recap. Somewhat different from the radio and vinyl record version. Video quality = watchable.

That second DVD is worth the price of the package. The feature DVD, not so much.

As far as the feature DVD, in 1967, Bob Ryan was in college, but, Jackie MacMullan was in the first grade. As I said, I was there - so it was just a historical rehash of what I actually saw.

No complete video of the last game (reportedly) is known to exist. This is not unusual for 1960s sporting events, as there's also only one known video copy of Super Bowl I, and the owner of the tape and the networks couldn't agree on a price for that copy. Likewise, the 1967 "Cold Bowl" (Green Bay vs. Dallas) - no known video tapes.

Compared to digital media, videotapes were designed to be re-used, and there was a cost to retain them, and a lot of what happened then is now - gone.
 
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