MLB kicking dirt in Charlie Hustle's face one bet at a time.

[YTF]

Because it doesn't help the player at all and the player is paid based on his production, so I'm not sure why a player would make a decision they don't consider the right one because of some random prop bet on a broadcast that they aren't watching

Once again I'll refer you to the first two paragraphs of post #35. If you see this as an impossibility then that's you prerogative.

I don't have a direct answer to your question, but just thinking about it leads me to a slippery slope. As network-sponsored prop bets generate revenue and become an integral part of the "MLB experience," how long will it be before players take note and try just a little harder to reach individual milestones, even if it's subconscious? If Eduardo Rodriguez knows that the over-under on strikeouts is 5.5, is it possible that he intentionally pitches away from contact when he's sitting on 5 strikeouts to see if he can hit the over, even if he doesn't have a direct financial interest?

When I see Big Papi flashing a suitcase full of cash and making predictions on the pre-game show, it's not hard to imagine a post-game interview where he says good-naturedly, "Come on, man, you made me look bad." I understand that these theoretical micro-influences already exist with sportsbooks, but I'd prefer a clear wall of separation between those sportsbooks and MLB partners with direct access to the managers and players.

Also, all of the finger-wagging about how Rose never tried to change his gambling ways rings hollow now. Granted, betting on baseball as an active participant is a cardinal sin, and Rose deserves his exile. But Giamatti, Selig, and Manfred went a step further with the proselytizing and suggested that Rose should re-examine his entire way of life. As Manfred put it, "Mr. Rose has not presented credible evidence of a reconfigured life either by an honest acceptance by him of his wrongdoing … or by a rigorous, self-aware and sustained program of avoidance by him of all the circumstances that led to his permanent ineligibility in 1989." Manfred also said that Rose's spiritual transformation "must begin with a complete rejection of the practices and habits that comprised his violations of Rule 21."

Manfred's implication is that someone so addicted to gambling that it infected his baseball life could only recover by avoiding the sinful activity entirely, even if it no longer implicates Rule 21. I'm offended that MLB is preaching total abstinence for Rose, while doing its best to usher in the next wave of gambling addicts.

 

[scottyno]

Once again I'll refer you to the first two paragraphs of post #35. If you see this as an impossibility then that's you prerogative.

Yes late in a start I'm sure Erod is totally going to think "Oh I can probably just get this guy out on some soft contact, but instead I'm going to throw worse pitches so the over on my prop bet that like 100 people in the world bet on can hit"

 

[YTF]

Yes late in a start I'm sure Erod is totally going to think "Oh I can probably just get this guy out on some soft contact, but instead I'm going to throw worse pitches so the over on my prop bet that like 100 people in the world bet on can hit"

We're done you win.

 

[Rovin Romine]

I don't have a direct answer to your question, but just thinking about it leads me to a slippery slope. As network-sponsored prop bets generate revenue and become an integral part of the "MLB experience," how long will it be before players take note and try just a little harder to reach individual milestones, even if it's subconscious? If Eduardo Rodriguez knows that the over-under on strikeouts is 5.5, is it possible that he intentionally pitches away from contact when he's sitting on 5 strikeouts to see if he can hit the over, even if he doesn't have a direct financial interest?

When I see Big Papi flashing a suitcase full of cash and making predictions on the pre-game show, it's not hard to imagine a post-game interview where he says good-naturedly, "Come on, man, you made me look bad." I understand that these theoretical micro-influences already exist with sportsbooks, but I'd prefer a clear wall of separation between those sportsbooks and MLB partners with direct access to the managers and players.

Also, all of the finger-wagging about how Rose never tried to change his gambling ways rings hollow now. Granted, betting on baseball as an active participant is a cardinal sin, and Rose deserves his exile. But Giamatti, Selig, and Manfred went a step further with the proselytizing and suggested that Rose should re-examine his entire way of life. As Manfred put it, "Mr. Rose has not presented credible evidence of a reconfigured life either by an honest acceptance by him of his wrongdoing … or by a rigorous, self-aware and sustained program of avoidance by him of all the circumstances that led to his permanent ineligibility in 1989." Manfred also said that Rose's spiritual transformation "must begin with a complete rejection of the practices and habits that comprised his violations of Rule 21."

Manfred's implication is that someone so addicted to gambling that it infected his baseball life could only recover by avoiding the sinful activity entirely, even if it no longer implicates Rule 21. I'm offended that MLB is preaching total abstinence for Rose, while doing its best to usher in the next wave of gambling addicts.

I don't disagree about the effects of gambling; there's no societal good here, only harm. It's essentially the same as the chewing tobacco issue. (Yes, some may not be harmed, but many will be grossly harmed - on the macro level it's expressly designed to transfer money to the already-rich at the cost of people most vulnerable to doing so. Further, it's designed to develop an addiction for those most vulnerable people.)

I also don't disagree that the overt presence of gambling running "parallel" to the sport will influence the sport.

If there's anything that will drive me away from Baseball it will be the active promotion of gambling and a gambling culture. There are some things you just can't support; I've walked away from specific sports before, and it's not the end of the world. Based on what I've seen, I think that's coming for me here.

That said, Giamatti, Selig, and Manfred are not the same person. When Rose applied for his lifetime ban to be overturned around 2015, Manfred said because Rose was still a gambling addict, there was an excellent chance he'd violate Rule 21. But Manfred went on to say the HoF wasn't MLB's purview. IMO, there's no real arguing with Manfred's position.

 

[Average Reds]

Yes late in a start I'm sure Erod is totally going to think "Oh I can probably just get this guy out on some soft contact, but instead I'm going to throw worse pitches so the over on my prop bet that like 100 people in the world bet on can hit"

It may seem silly, but what you’ve just described is pretty much the mindset of every player in every point shaving scandal.

I’m not saying that the promotion of prop bets will inevitably lead to this sort of corruption, but normalizing gambling culture within MLB is playing with fire, IMO.

 

[mikeford]

Fuck Pete Rose but I also think he should be in the Hall of Fame.

Put him in after he dies, IMO.

In life, he doesn't deserve the honor.

 

[cornwalls@6]

I know that some of us who object to the constant betting ads seem prudish, but my objection is to the overwhelming growth of these ads, projected right into the game. Last night, the odds on everything were intruded right into the game: the odds on this guy getting a hit, this pitcher vs. that pitcher going how many innings, everything. It was difficult just to see/hear the pure game with all the intrusions. It actually made me feel a little sorry I ever developed this mania for the Sox, as I feel a captive to big business in a big way. I can mute the commercials, I can mute the Fox booth, but after a while, the whole game seems distressingly carved up by all these commercial interruptions.

Agree. The national broadcasts of all big games/series are now just intolerably riddled with commercials, cut-ins, digital sponsorships over-laid on the field, etc. The length of the commercial breaks during these playoffs has been maddening. I don't really have a big objection to gambling ads. I don't see them as being any worse than pushing alcohol. It's the sheer volume of corporate commercialism, that like you, really turns me off. Fortunately, at least in the case of baseball, the vast majority of games we consume are on the local/regional networks. Which don't seem quite as polluted with this stuff to me.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Agree. The national broadcasts of all big games/series are now just intolerably riddled with commercials, cut-ins, digital sponsorships over-laid on the field, etc. The length of the commercial breaks during these playoffs has been maddening. I don't really have a big objection to gambling ads. I don't see them as being any worse than pushing alcohol. It's the sheer volume of corporate commercialism, that like you, really turns me off. Fortunately, at least in the case of baseball, the vast majority of games we consume are on the local/regional networks. Which don't seem quite as polluted with this stuff to me.

Yet. The word you're missing is "yet". It's only a matter of time before local broadcasts adopt more of the national tricks. It's been the way it's always worked.

 

[YTF]

Yet. The word you're missing is "yet". It's only a matter of time before local broadcasts adopt more of the national tricks. It's been the way it's always worked.

Yeah, they're inching there with some of the projected graphics onto the pitcher's mound and on the backstop walls. I don't know if we ever see that same level locally, at least I hope that we don't.

 

[soxhop411]

I posted this in the ALCS thread but it also fits here


Perhaps now that baseball is embracing gambling they will take the human element out of the game. The last think they want is to piss off their gambling partners on a call that we have had technology for years to fix. Since a blown call can can have humongous implications for our “friends in the desert” as Brent Musburger used to say.

Also the fact that we still have the human element makes it even more shocking we have not had another Tim Donaghy type scandal (which is all the more reason for automated strike zones and being able to review everything

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I posted this in the ALCS thread but it also fits here


Perhaps now that baseball is embracing gambling they will take the human element out of the game. The last think they want is to piss off their gambling partners on a call that we have had technology for years to fix. Since a blown call can can have humongous implications for our “friends in the desert” as Brent Musburger used to say.

Also the fact that we still have the human element makes it even more shocking we have not had another Tim Donaghy type scandal (which is all the more reason for automated strike zones and being able to review everything

At least a scandal that hasn't been unearthed yet.

 

[leftfieldlegacy]

Well, he is. draft kings and fan duel pay MLB licensing fees which are revenue that is shared by players, no?

I don't think they do. Teams share revenue among themselves but I don't believe players participate in that. It was offered last year, but I don't think it was accepted by the union. But since no one (players or the union) is raising the issue it might well fall into a category different than an individual player using his name to hawk tires or coffee for local businesses.

 

[reggiecleveland]

It seems every second ad during sports is for online gambling, most feature respected athletes. MLB fences have gambling ads on them.

The last straw for me is Fox having its own Gambling games they push during world series brosdcasts.

I have long been against Rose coming back, having willingly broken, and lied about the most sacred rule. But, the hypocrisy of the current situation is too much.

Free Pete.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

You are @Adirondack jack and I claim my 5 pounds.

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/mlb-kicking-dirt-in-charlie-hustles-face-one-bet-at-a-time.34899/

 

[Average Reds]

Fuck Pete Rose.

 

[Seels]

Pete Rose is a legitimately terrible person who signed his own ban. The hardest of no's to this. He's a joke and baseball is better without him.

 

[Van Everyman]

Fuck Pete Rose.

Jail Pete Rose

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Where’s the hypocrisy? The ads are targeted to viewers, not players or coaches.

 

[lexrageorge]

Pete Rose deliberately betted on his team to lose games. He knew the penalties for doing so, but still made an active decision to do it anyway. Players are still barred from betting on baseball, as they should be. So, yes, Fuck Pete Rose!

Is the sponsorship and open promoting of gambling in the World Series wrong? Absolutely. Viewers know there is a World Series going on, and can go online or fly to Vegas on their own. But that act does not somehow forgive Pete Rose of what he did, and there is no way to connect his actions to those that FoxSports/MLB are promoting.

 

[jon abbey]

Merged the two identically ridiculous threads.

 

[Heating up in the bullpen]

He is in the Hall of Fame! He’s just not honored by it.

I'm with this. I've been to the HOF once, around 2007. Pete Rose's name is all over the place. He just doesn't have a plaque. If I had a vote, I'd keep it that way.

 

[Sad Sam Jones]

You also can't visit the shops in Cooperstown without being annoyed by all the crap Rose has signed and hocked. He's the most overrepresented player in the town and I always wonder just how many people on the "Rose for the HoF" crusade have actually been there.

 

[SumnerH]

Pete Rose is a legitimately terrible person who signed his own ban. The hardest of no's to this. He's a joke and baseball is better without him.

Where’s the hypocrisy? The ads are targeted to viewers, not players or coaches.

Pete Rose deliberately betted on his team to lose games. He knew the penalties for doing so, but still made an active decision to do it anyway. Players are still barred from betting on baseball, as they should be. So, yes, Fuck Pete Rose!

All of this, and even without the betting Rose’s abusive manipulation of the lineup as a manager should be enough to bar him as a credible ambassador for the game. He totally fucked with the rules to play himself when he was washed up to falsely inflate his own stats.

I expected this thread to be a pile-on when I opened it: baseball absolutely should be kicking more and more dirt in his face at every opportunity.

It's batshit insane that anyone is at all sympathetic to him. Especially when the one record he might deserve is one that's wildly overrated in retrospect. He's a jerk and a cheat and an asshole riding the coattails of a time when slap hitting was viewed with far too much awe.