MLB kicking dirt in Charlie Hustle's face one bet at a time.

Adirondack jack

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We all love baseball.

Whether we agree or disagree on whether MLB should promote gambling throughout their broadcast, with a stiletto hammer to our nose, it seems beyond question, now, they should allow Pete back into the game and into the hall and stadiums, for that matter, if this is their newest marketing pivot.

Holy hypocrisy batman. And you all thought I was tone deaf. Pretty embarrassing if you ask me.
 

scottyno

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They aren't promoting it to the players or the coaches. Pete Rose was both a player and a coach.
 

Adirondack jack

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Perhaps they aren't promoting this to coaches and players to bet against their own team(typically not the peoples to bet against theirselves). But they are promoting it to me 4 hours after my bedtime.

Not a touch of irony to you? The league should do better.
 

scottyno

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Perhaps they aren't promoting this to coaches and players to bet against their own team(typically not the peoples to bet against theirselves). But they are promoting it to me 4 hours after my bedtime.

Not a touch of irony to you? The league should do better.
Not really no, it's a massive crossover group between people who enjoy gambling and people who enjoy sports, there's no reason they shouldn't be promoting it.

They advertise for all kinds of different things that are potentially bad for you and are bad for players.
 

Pilgrim

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I think MLB is incredibly stupid for doing anything that might blur the line, but the line is still clear: people that have any sort of input on the outcome of games cant bet on games.
 

Euclis20

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Pete Rose bet on games that he managed. Unless the league starts promoting players and managers betting on games they are actively participating, Pete Rose can buy a ticket to get into the hall like everyone else who doesn't have a plaque. It's with good reason that players and management gambling is the cardinal sin of baseball, and how they market the sport to fans doesn't change that one inch.
 

RG33

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Yeah, there is absolutely no way that Pete Rose should ever be allowed in the Hall of Fame. He bet on baseball games he played in. He bet on baseball games he managed. He lied about it all for two decades. He figuratively spit in the face of Giamatti and Fay Vincent. He spat in the face of all his teammates. He spat in the face of all of his fans. He made as much money off 10-year old kids at autograph shows as he could. He only showed remorse, and then barely, after he thought he had a chance to get in later in life — and likely, only because he thought he would better be able to monetize things. He is a piece of shit human being who deserves no empathy.

It kills me that people want to “forgive” the guy because, you know, he used to hustle a lot and “played the game the right way”, when he did the complete opposite. Fuck him.
 

Rovin Romine

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Whether we agree or disagree on whether MLB should promote gambling throughout their broadcast, with a stiletto hammer to our nose, it seems beyond question, now, they should allow Pete back into the game and into the hall and stadiums, for that matter, if this is their newest marketing pivot.

Holy hypocrisy batman. And you all thought I was tone deaf. Pretty embarrassing if you ask me.
No on promoting on-line gambling.

No on Rose.

Also, who thinks about that guy anymore?
 

Average Reds

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MLB's promotion of gambling is almost unfathomably hypocritical.

That doesn't mean that Pete Rose should be reinstated*. It simply means that MLB is run by a bunch of scum-sucking weasels who never turn down cash.

*It's also worth remembering that as bad as it is to gamble on games where you are a player or manager, Rose has an entire litany of transgressions that should keep him banned forever, including tax fraud, money laundering, amphetamine trafficking and trafficking of underage girls for sex..
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Yeah, there is absolutely no way that Pete Rose should ever be allowed in the Hall of Fame. He bet on baseball games he played in. He bet on baseball games he managed. He lied about it all for two decades. He figuratively spit in the face of Giamatti and Fay Vincent. He spat in the face of all his teammates. He spat in the face of all of his fans. He made as much money off 10-year old kids at autograph shows as he could. He only showed remorse, and then barely, after he thought he had a chance to get in later in life — and likely, only because he thought he would better be able to monetize things. He is a piece of shit human being who deserves no empathy.

It kills me that people want to “forgive” the guy because, you know, he used to hustle a lot and “played the game the right way”, when he did the complete opposite. Fuck him.
I wish it was only 10 year old kids. At least they'd have the excuse of ignorance and naivety. Are those really the people lining up at his signing events in Las Vegas?
 

YTF

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I get the sentiment of the OP, but I don't agree with AJ's stance on Rose for the same reasons that most here have already express. I am put off by the volume of advertising that is being driven by this as well as the regular segments that local and national sports shows are dedicating to it. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my daily scratch ticket, weekly football pools and fantasy leagues, but I don't bet on games. I take no issue with those that do, but I think that the level of involvement and promotion by the leagues, their networks and the networks they are contracted with is too "in your face".
 

Hank Scorpio

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Rose has an entire litany of transgressions that should keep him banned forever, including tax fraud, money laundering, amphetamine trafficking and trafficking of underage girls for sex..
Off topic, but it's interesting to me Rose was involved in tax fraud, money laundering, and amphetamine trafficking - considering Saul Goodman/Jimmy McGill was once affectionately referred to as "Charlie Hustle" by a former employer. The moniker was bestowed upon him for his "get up and go" work ethic, but Saul would later turn criminal, committing tax fraud and money laundering, all in the name of Walter White's methamphetamine empire. I wonder how intentional that was, or if it's coincidence?

Bravo, Vince.
 

jon abbey

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Off topic, but it's interesting to me Rose was involved in tax fraud, money laundering, and amphetamine trafficking - considering Saul Goodman/Jimmy McGill was once affectionately referred to as "Charlie Hustle" by a former employer. The moniker was bestowed upon him for his "get up and go" work ethic, but Saul would later turn criminal, committing tax fraud and money laundering, all in the name of Walter White's methamphetamine empire. I wonder how intentional that was, or if it's coincidence?

Bravo, Vince.
Of course the character was a con man in Chicago before he ever became a lawyer, already a criminal when nicknamed on the show.
 

biollante

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Everyone wants your money. MLB is no different.
The Hall of Fame is full of so many players.
Pretty soon the MLB will be selling pot.
The games start after 8pm so kids can't watch a whole game.
Not that I ever met Ty Cobb, but I bet Cobb and Rose were similar.
 

Joe D Reid

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Come see a game in Oakland. Pot's not my thing, but there are dispensaries near the park and the general gestalt inside is very live-and-let-live.
 

Fred not Lynn

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That might actually get me to a game for the first time in years, let's not pretend pot is any stronger or worse than beer.
And 100% legal in at least one MLB park…

That said, the smoked version isn’t really conducive to a non-smoking venue like a stadium I don’t think the delayed onset and lengthy intoxication time of edibles really mesh with the timeframe of a ballgame.

Not that both forms aren’t being consumed at games, but I don’t see in-stadium dispensaries popping up anytime soon, except maybe as a novelty.
 

Ford Frick's Asterisk

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Will MLB be selling tickets to kick dirt in Pete Rose's face? Never mind, I'm sure Pete will sell those tickets himself. Last I heard, for a little extra, he'll sign your autograph, "Sorry I bet on baseball".
 

InsideTheParker

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I know that some of us who object to the constant betting ads seem prudish, but my objection is to the overwhelming growth of these ads, projected right into the game. Last night, the odds on everything were intruded right into the game: the odds on this guy getting a hit, this pitcher vs. that pitcher going how many innings, everything. It was difficult just to see/hear the pure game with all the intrusions. It actually made me feel a little sorry I ever developed this mania for the Sox, as I feel a captive to big business in a big way. I can mute the commercials, I can mute the Fox booth, but after a while, the whole game seems distressingly carved up by all these commercial interruptions.
 

deanx0

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While I am not a fan of gambling on baseball, this has nothing to do with Pete Rose.

He bet on baseball when expressly told not to do so.
He bet on his team when told that warranted a lifetime ban.

Even if he never bet on his team to lose, isn't he effectively betting on them to lose if he bets on the team to win games 1 and 2, but doesn't bet on them to win Game 3?
And he was the fucking manager--and could make decisions to try and win a game he bet on at the expense of the long-term health of the club.

So this has nothing to do with Pete Rose, and more importantly, fuck Pete Rose.
 

YTF

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I know that some of us who object to the constant betting ads seem prudish, but my objection is to the overwhelming growth of these ads, projected right into the game. Last night, the odds on everything were intruded right into the game: the odds on this guy getting a hit, this pitcher vs. that pitcher going how many innings, everything. It was difficult just to see/hear the pure game with all the intrusions. It actually made me feel a little sorry I ever developed this mania for the Sox, as I feel a captive to big business in a big way. I can mute the commercials, I can mute the Fox booth, but after a while, the whole game seems distressingly carved up by all these commercial interruptions.
I agree with your use of the word intrusion and feel put off by the prop bets on the performances of individual players.
 

Kliq

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Fuck Pete Rose but I also think he should be in the Hall of Fame.
 

lexrageorge

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Rose knowingly bet on games in which he was involved and never once showed an ounce of regret. There are some lines that should never be crossed, and Rose actively crossed that line.

I do hate the promos for gambling sites but those ads do not wipe away Rose’s actions.
 

nolasoxfan

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That might actually get me to a game for the first time in years, let's not pretend pot is any stronger or worse than beer.
Agreed, but I don’t spit my beer up the nostrils or down the lungs of those around me. There’s a big public health difference between pot and beer consumption: second hand smoke. I have no problem standing next to somebody drinking a beer. Smoking? F*** that. Maybe this topic belongs in V&N?
 

RSN Diaspora

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Rose knowingly bet on games in which he was involved and never once showed an ounce of regret. There are some lines that should never be crossed, and Rose actively crossed that line.

I do hate the promos for gambling sites but those ads do not wipe away Rose’s actions.
This is it in a nutshell. I *do* bet on sports (rarely baseball) and as a rule never bet on any Boston teams, but I too am sick of the gambling intrusion on live sports.

But there's a difference between marketing sports betting to viewers like me, and tolerating it from people who directly impact the games and willfully flout the rules against it and lie about doing so. Fuck Pete Rose. Sideways.
 

jon abbey

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Agreed, but I don’t spit my beer up the nostrils or down the lungs of those around me. There’s a big public health difference between pot and beer consumption: second hand smoke. I have no problem standing next to somebody drinking a beer. Smoking? F*** that. Maybe this topic belongs in V&N?
Yep, this is true, I never smoke around other people (except occasionally a friend or two) even publicly, so this never occurs to me.

Also I would never actually get stoned for a baseball game in person, they are way too long in reality and would seem even longer if stoned. No thanks.
 

Ramon AC

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Fuck Pete Rose but I also think he should be in the Hall of Fame.
He is in the Hall of Fame! He’s just not honored by it.

Fuck Pete Rose. He broke my dad’s heart, he broke my heart, and the stress of his betrayal killed Giamatti.
 

CPT Neuron

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He is in the Hall of Fame! He’s just not honored by it.

Fuck Pete Rose. He broke my dad’s heart, he broke my heart, and the stress of his betrayal killed Giamatti.
Voodoo Death - Marty Samuels, a very talented Neurologist from MGH is famous for his lecture on Voodoo Death, even referencing Pete Rose during it.....I'm sure it can be found on YouTube somewhere.

Go to 57:30 to start the listening on this
 
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leftfieldlegacy

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I agree with your use of the word intrusion and feel put off by the prop bets on the performances of individual players.
I agree with this and I'm curious about one thing. When Joe Buck asks excitedly "what are the odds of Chris Sale striking out 6 or more batters", shouldn't Sale be compensated by the networks for using his name as part of an advertisement?
 

scottyno

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I know that some of us who object to the constant betting ads seem prudish, but my objection is to the overwhelming growth of these ads, projected right into the game. Last night, the odds on everything were intruded right into the game: the odds on this guy getting a hit, this pitcher vs. that pitcher going how many innings, everything. It was difficult just to see/hear the pure game with all the intrusions. It actually made me feel a little sorry I ever developed this mania for the Sox, as I feel a captive to big business in a big way. I can mute the commercials, I can mute the Fox booth, but after a while, the whole game seems distressingly carved up by all these commercial interruptions.
Are you equally off-put by every other in game ad that has been going on forever? At least these are in game ads that are relevant to what we're actually watching, like in game 2 when they showed Eovaldi's strikeout odds and that led into a discussion of how it was unlikely to hit because they were already up by a lot so Eovaldi was going to pitch to contact.
 

phrenile

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Even if he never bet on his team to lose, isn't he effectively betting on them to lose if he bets on the team to win games 1 and 2, but doesn't bet on them to win Game 3?
And he was the fucking manager--and could make decisions to try and win a game he bet on at the expense of the long-term health of the club.
And "even if" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.
 

Tim Salmon

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I agree with this and I'm curious about one thing. When Joe Buck asks excitedly "what are the odds of Chris Sale striking out 6 or more batters", shouldn't Sale be compensated by the networks for using his name as part of an advertisement?
I don't have a direct answer to your question, but just thinking about it leads me to a slippery slope. As network-sponsored prop bets generate revenue and become an integral part of the "MLB experience," how long will it be before players take note and try just a little harder to reach individual milestones, even if it's subconscious? If Eduardo Rodriguez knows that the over-under on strikeouts is 5.5, is it possible that he intentionally pitches away from contact when he's sitting on 5 strikeouts to see if he can hit the over, even if he doesn't have a direct financial interest?

When I see Big Papi flashing a suitcase full of cash and making predictions on the pre-game show, it's not hard to imagine a post-game interview where he says good-naturedly, "Come on, man, you made me look bad." I understand that these theoretical micro-influences already exist with sportsbooks, but I'd prefer a clear wall of separation between those sportsbooks and MLB partners with direct access to the managers and players.

Also, all of the finger-wagging about how Rose never tried to change his gambling ways rings hollow now. Granted, betting on baseball as an active participant is a cardinal sin, and Rose deserves his exile. But Giamatti, Selig, and Manfred went a step further with the proselytizing and suggested that Rose should re-examine his entire way of life. As Manfred put it, "Mr. Rose has not presented credible evidence of a reconfigured life either by an honest acceptance by him of his wrongdoing … or by a rigorous, self-aware and sustained program of avoidance by him of all the circumstances that led to his permanent ineligibility in 1989." Manfred also said that Rose's spiritual transformation "must begin with a complete rejection of the practices and habits that comprised his violations of Rule 21."

Manfred's implication is that someone so addicted to gambling that it infected his baseball life could only recover by avoiding the sinful activity entirely, even if it no longer implicates Rule 21. I'm offended that MLB is preaching total abstinence for Rose, while doing its best to usher in the next wave of gambling addicts.
 

YTF

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I don't have a direct answer to your question, but just thinking about it leads me to a slippery slope. As network-sponsored prop bets generate revenue and become an integral part of the "MLB experience," how long will it be before players take note and try just a little harder to reach individual milestones, even if it's subconscious? If Eduardo Rodriguez knows that the over-under on strikeouts is 5.5, is it possible that he intentionally pitches away from contact when he's sitting on 5 strikeouts to see if he can hit the over, even if he doesn't have a direct financial interest?

When I see Big Papi flashing a suitcase full of cash and making predictions on the pre-game show, it's not hard to imagine a post-game interview where he says good-naturedly, "Come on, man, you made me look bad." I understand that these theoretical micro-influences already exist with sportsbooks, but I'd prefer a clear wall of separation between those sportsbooks and MLB partners with direct access to the managers and players.


Also, all of the finger-wagging about how Rose never tried to change his gambling ways rings hollow now. Granted, betting on baseball as an active participant is a cardinal sin, and Rose deserves his exile. But Giamatti, Selig, and Manfred went a step further with the proselytizing and suggested that Rose should re-examine his entire way of life. As Manfred put it, "Mr. Rose has not presented credible evidence of a reconfigured life either by an honest acceptance by him of his wrongdoing … or by a rigorous, self-aware and sustained program of avoidance by him of all the circumstances that led to his permanent ineligibility in 1989." Manfred also said that Rose's spiritual transformation "must begin with a complete rejection of the practices and habits that comprised his violations of Rule 21."

Manfred's implication is that someone so addicted to gambling that it infected his baseball life could only recover by avoiding the sinful activity entirely, even if it no longer implicates Rule 21. I'm offended that MLB is preaching total abstinence for Rose, while doing its best to usher in the next wave of gambling addicts.
This is well stated and along the lines of what I was thinking
Are you equally off-put by every other in game ad that has been going on forever? At least these are in game ads that are relevant to what we're actually watching, like in game 2 when they showed Eovaldi's strikeout odds and that led into a discussion of how it was unlikely to hit because they were already up by a lot so Eovaldi was going to pitch to contact.
Tim Salmon addresses this much better than I can in what I highlighted from his quoted post above. IMO this is an apples to oranges comp. These players are competitors and some of these prop bets might be "fun" for them to actively participate in. A matter of pride of sorts, betting on themselves if you will figuratively and/or literally. We know from recent experience that players/organizations will skirt or flat out break the rules to win games. Insert player here____________________ might not give fuck all about the Lexus ad being run, but Draft Kings might get his attention.
 

scottyno

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This is well stated and along the lines of what I was thinking


Tim Salmon addresses this much better than I can in what I highlighted from his quoted post above. IMO this is an apples to oranges comp. These players are competitors and some of these prop bets might be "fun" for them to actively participate in. A matter of pride of sorts, betting on themselves if you will figuratively and/or literally. We know from recent experience that players/organizations will skirt or flat out break the rules to win games. Insert player here____________________ might not give fuck all about the Lexus ad being run, but Draft Kings might get his attention.
Pretty sure pitchers are going to try to strike guys out rather than give up contact and players are going to try to hit home runs regardless of whether they happen to know what the odds are on them to do so.
 

Adirondack jack

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No on promoting on-line gambling.

No on Rose.

Also, who thinks about that guy anymore?

I appreciate and value everyone's input. Woulda figured there to be more support for Rose in all honesty.

For the record I do not think about Pete Rose all that much in my day-to-day life. I am not personally a gambler and find this new in-broadcast promotion of gambling off-putting. The fact that I am staying up nearly 4 hours past my normal bed time isn't helping matters. Kids can't watch baseball because it's on a midnight? I work construction and am up at 5am. I can't watch this "prime-time" time slot as an adult. In sum, I think the league can do better with this.

To be honest, I was unaware of Rose's outside of the game transgressions that (alone) might be be enough to exclude him (and others like, maybe, Cobb) given the character clause. Looking through the tunnel of on the field skills and accomplishments Pete Rose and say Barry Bonds should be in, obviously. Major League Baseball has enough of their own shortcomings that their blackballing of a select few rings hollow and is hypocritical.

Telling me a 32 dollar bet pays $82 for a homer in such and such at-bat, makes my blood boil is all.
 

VTSox

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Rose isn't banned from baseball & the HOF for gambling. He's banned because that's what he requested/negotiated in exchange for having the investigation into his gambling dropped.
 

YTF

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Pretty sure pitchers are going to try to strike guys out rather than give up contact and players are going to try to hit home runs regardless of whether they happen to know what the odds are on them to do so.
You may be right, but I don't think it's a lock that a player doesn't see some thrill in chasing a pitch that he might other wise take in a situation where he should be taking. Do they offer prop bets for stolen bases for certain speedsters (not that there are many these days) or other props that cause players to entertain the idea of things that they might not normally do in certain circumstances? I'm not suggesting that the league would be rampant with these sorts things of but I can see the potential for some issues. But back to my main issue, It's just too much bombardment with the gambling promo's for my taste.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I agree with this and I'm curious about one thing. When Joe Buck asks excitedly "what are the odds of Chris Sale striking out 6 or more batters", shouldn't Sale be compensated by the networks for using his name as part of an advertisement?
Well, he is. draft kings and fan duel pay MLB licensing fees which are revenue that is shared by players, no?
 

scottyno

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You may be right, but I don't think it's a lock that a player doesn't see some thrill in chasing a pitch that he might other wise take in a situation where he should be taking. Do they offer prop bets for stolen bases for certain speedsters (not that there are many these days) or other props that cause players to entertain the idea of things that they might not normally do in certain circumstances? I'm not suggesting that the league would be rampant with these sorts things of but I can see the potential for some issues. But back to my main issue, It's just too much bombardment with the gambling promo's for my taste.
There are prop bets for everything and have been for years and years. I can't think of an example of any player ever doing something because of a sportsbook prop bet.

I would be absolutely stunned if a player swung at a bad pitch on purpose because he saw his odds on some prop bet.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Agreed, but I don’t spit my beer up the nostrils or down the lungs of those around me. There’s a big public health difference between pot and beer consumption: second hand smoke. I have no problem standing next to somebody drinking a beer. Smoking? F*** that. Maybe this topic belongs in V&N?
What's your problem with me eating a brownie and having a lemonade?

Baseball games are long. I'd argue they are an edible friendly venue.
 

AlNipper49

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I think Pete Rose is a shitbag and that does not impact my opinion on these commercials. I think anyone should buy any ad that they want but the broadcast encouraging betting seems a bit lowest common denominator to me. Gambling can be a really bad thing and encouraging it in a show the should be, atleast ostensibly, aimed at kids is kinda lame.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think Pete Rose is a shitbag and that does not impact my opinion on these commercials. I think anyone should buy any ad that they want but the broadcast encouraging betting seems a bit lowest common denominator to me. Gambling can be a really bad thing and encouraging it in a show the should be, atleast ostensibly, aimed at kids is kinda lame.
Has that loot box feel.
 

YTF

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There are prop bets for everything and have been for years and years. I can't think of an example of any player ever doing something because of a sportsbook prop bet.

I would be absolutely stunned if a player swung at a bad pitch on purpose because he saw his odds on some prop bet.
The fact that you can't think of an example of something doesn't mean that it has not or can not happen. Just curious why you "would be absolutely stunned" by any temptation a player or manager for that matter might have to act in ANY questionable manner relevant to the discussion in this thread?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I think Pete Rose is a shitbag and that does not impact my opinion on these commercials. I think anyone should buy any ad that they want but the broadcast encouraging betting seems a bit lowest common denominator to me. Gambling can be a really bad thing and encouraging it in a show the should be, atleast ostensibly, aimed at kids is kinda lame.
i don’t necessarily disagree but the umpires wearing crypto ads on their uniforms seems even more offensive to me.
 

scottyno

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The fact that you can't think of an example of something doesn't mean that it has not or can not happen. Just curious why you "would be absolutely stunned" by any temptation a player or manager for that matter might have to act in ANY questionable manner relevant to the discussion in this thread?
Because it doesn't help the player at all and the player is paid based on his production, so I'm not sure why a player would make a decision they don't consider the right one because of some random prop bet on a broadcast that they aren't watching