MLB and MLBPA have a deal

jon abbey

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To me he is absolutely awful every single time I have ever heard him talk about baseball, spewing incorrect facts faster than people can google to doublecheck how wrong he is. The single exception was one game in the Yankee booth where he was alongside all of Kay, Cone and O'Neill. With two former very good players there next to him, he dropped his persona and became as much of a 'normal person' as is possible for the Michael Jackson of baseball (not a compliment to either). Maybe ESPN needs to put up big pix of Cone and O'Neill in that two man booth?

TL/DR: I fucking hate A-Rod.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Probably not legal. But neither is high fiving the base runner after a home run.

Maybe we’ve moved past the pine tar incident! No actual harm, no foul. (And yes, I realize this preceded Brett’s HR. But Billy Martin wasn’t involved!)
 
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Rice4HOF

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Probably not legal. But neither is high fiving the base runner after a home run.

Maybe we’ve moved past the pine tar incident! No actual harm, no foul. (And yes, I realize this preceded Brett’s HR. But Billy Martin wasn’t involved!)
It is legal. And so is high-fiving a batter after a home run.

A COACH cannot assist a base runner, and the runner is out if he does (think physically stopping him as he rounds 3rd, if he misses a stop sign, or helping him get up if he trips). But it is otherwise 100% legal to touch a baserunner during live play.
 

jon abbey

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Gerrit Cole:

As part of the executive subcommittee, you voted no on this proposal. What led to that decision?

The sub wanted to stick together, and that was how our vote was reflected. I’m not really looking to talk about negative things right now while everyone is excited about the deal. We had our reasons, but those can be discussed at another time.

https://theathletic.com/3176217/2022/03/10/exclusive-qa-with-yankees-gerrit-cole-on-the-end-of-the-lockout-negotiation-process-and-more/?source=user_shared_article
 

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No the problem was that his physical showed an elbow issue. https://www.mlb.com/news/kumar-rocker-mets-deal-affected-by-physical
If I’m reading this right, this should not be the Rocker Rule, it may as well be tied back to Brady Aitken. This is trying to get pitchers to submit to a physical, which Rocker didn’t do, and most pitchers going into the draft don’t do.

The only physical Rocker failed was the Mets physical after he was drafted. This rule (again, if I’m reading it right) covers him only if he submits to a pre-draft physical as part of the combine. MLB Is trying to out out a bit of carrot to encourage physicals, but it’s not likely to be enough to switch the players over to ignoring their own interests and aligning with the owners.
 

Van Everyman

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Gerrit Cole:

As part of the executive subcommittee, you voted no on this proposal. What led to that decision?

The sub wanted to stick together, and that was how our vote was reflected. I’m not really looking to talk about negative things right now while everyone is excited about the deal. We had our reasons, but those can be discussed at another time.

https://theathletic.com/3176217/2022/03/10/exclusive-qa-with-yankees-gerrit-cole-on-the-end-of-the-lockout-negotiation-process-and-more/?source=user_shared_article
I kind of respect this. You see this in politics from time to time – leadership or a group votes no, but allows the vote to go forward. In this case, Cole is also doing the right thing by choosing to voice their grievances at another time.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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If I’m reading this right, this should not be the Rocker Rule, it may as well be tied back to Brady Aitken. This is trying to get pitchers to submit to a physical, which Rocker didn’t do, and most pitchers going into the draft don’t do.

The only physical Rocker failed was the Mets physical after he was drafted. This rule (again, if I’m reading it right) covers him only if he submits to a pre-draft physical as part of the combine. MLB Is trying to out out a bit of carrot to encourage physicals, but it’s not likely to be enough to switch the players over to ignoring their own interests and aligning with the owners.
I think both Rocker and Aiken were the same situation: neither got a physical pre-draft; both were drafted; both failed their physical pre-signing; both teams wanted a discount; and both players declined.

What I am just learning because I was Binging around is that there already was a Aiken rule as in the last CBA in 2016, MLB inserted a provision allowing the top-50 pitching prospects to take a pre-draft MRI: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/theres-good-and-bad-with-the-mlbs-new-voluntary-mri-program-for-draft-prospects/. As is obvious to us (and not sure why it wasn't obvious to MLB), without any sweeteners, prospects had no incentive to take the pre-draft MRI, which Rocker did not do.

Looking at the proposal, I'm skeptical that the new agreement addresses this issue. Yes, a guarantee of 75% of slot sounds like a lot but I'm sure agents have already figured out that the guarantee means little if their client sliding down the board due to what popped up on the pre-draft physical and means essentially $0 if their client is not taken in the 1st 10 rounds.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Yeah the Mets were only able to offer him a deal less than a certain % of slot because he hadn’t participated in the pre draft MRI program. I’m not sure what reason there is to think that he would have taken a pre draft physical, so not really sure what this solves.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I read the first few pages and didn't see it discussed.

Do any of these rule changes impact Ohtani? When he is taken out of a game, do the Angels get to replace him with a DH now?
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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So now you just have to tank into the top 3 worst teams.
Approximately doubling your odds by dropping 2 spots, from places 7 to 11 into 5 to 9 respectively, seems more meaningful than dropping from 5 into the top 3 where #5 already has a 10% chance. So being in the "mediocre" tier may encourage me to put together a losing streak in the final few weeks of the season, more so than just outside the top 3. But I may be misinterpreting...
 

jon abbey

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trekfan55

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I read the first few pages and didn't see it discussed.

Do any of these rule changes impact Ohtani? When he is taken out of a game, do the Angels get to replace him with a DH now?
As I understand the rules, if the pitcher bats the team loses the DH for the remainder of the game.

The NL now has the DH but did they change that part of the rule?

As for substitutions, as Jon Abbey said, those rules have no exceptions, nor should they.
 
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Petagine in a Bottle

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Actually, there’s really no change for him, right? He can bat when he pitches but of course they lose his bat when he is removed from the game. Eventually, it seems like the risk of injury and losing his bat at the end of those games may lead to him giving up pitching.
 
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joe dokes

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As I understand the rules, if the pitcher bats the team loses the DH for the remainder of the game.
The NL now has the DH but did they change that part of the rule?
As for substitutions, as Jon Abbey said, those rules have no exceptions, nor should they.
Feels like this will inevitably lead to Ohtani giving up pitching.
(Actually, there’s really no change for him, right?).
Isn't one answer here that they move him to another position when a reliever comes in to keep his bat in the lineup, especialy if he's due up in the next inning of a close game.
 

Cumberland Blues

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I'm curious about how the pre-arb bonus pool counts toward the tax threshold. If a team is bumping up against the tax, can they get pushed over by a few young guys having big years?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I'm curious about how the pre-arb bonus pool counts toward the tax threshold. If a team is bumping up against the tax, can they get pushed over by a few young guys having big years?
I suspect the bonus won't count against the payroll because the money's coming from a league wide pool rather than a team's individual coffers. Seems unfair to credit teams for money they're not paying.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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So now you just have to tank into the top 3 worst teams.
Yeah, draft lotteries don't address the real problem. The real problem is not that there is an incentive to lose, the problem is that there is no real incentive to win if a team isn't a playoff team.

Until a pro sports league stops tying drafting to record, there will always be an incentive to lose. To combat tanking, there has to be some incentive to win that is at least approximately equal to the incentive to lose. Until that happens, there will continue to be tanking. Like the NBA.
 

Sad Sam Jones

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Isn't one answer here that they move him to another position when a reliever comes in to keep his bat in the lineup, especialy if he's due up in the next inning of a close game.
Right... the way around it is to just use the old NL approach when Ohtani is pitching, because there has never been a rule that using a designated hitter is required. Ohtani can still bat for himself when he pitches. When they make a pitching change, they have the option of a double-switch, put Ohtani in right field and they can pinch-hit when the pitcher's spot comes up (in the original right fielder's spot) in the batting order.
 

DeadlySplitter

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I suspect the bonus won't count against the payroll because the money's coming from a league wide pool rather than a team's individual coffers. Seems unfair to credit teams for money they're not paying.
There was talk of the pool applying to the CBT for every team equally (e.g. at 50M, 1.67M per team) but I didn't see any reports if that detail made the final cut.
 

shaggydog2000

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Approximately doubling your odds by dropping 2 spots, from places 7 to 11 into 5 to 9 respectively, seems more meaningful than dropping from 5 into the top 3 where #5 already has a 10% chance. So being in the "mediocre" tier may encourage me to put together a losing streak in the final few weeks of the season, more so than just outside the top 3. But I may be misinterpreting...
Lotteries reduce the incentive for teams to intentionally not try their best to win games late in a season when they know how bad their team is. Teams will still play younger guys and rest their good players, but the incentive to lose is reduced at that point to a more general one rather than an urge to lose a specific game. Lotteries don't do anything to encourage mediocre teams to add players in the offseason in order to be slightly less mediocre.
 

Ale Xander

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Do we have any reports of players arriving to spring training already?

What about equipment trucks too?

Does March 18 still look realistic for games?
 

geoflin

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There was talk of the pool applying to the CBT for every team equally (e.g. at 50M, 1.67M per team) but I didn't see any reports if that detail made the final cut.
I did see that it made the cut. So the CBT number for teams to spend is actually 1.67M lower each year than the published numbers of 230M etc. (e.g. 228.33M this year) due to that amount being counted against it. I haven't seen anything addressing the original question - so long as a team's young players earn 1.67M or less in bonuses it would seem to be double counting to charge that against the CBT cap, but I don't know what happens if a team's young players make more than 1.67M in bonuses. But again, it would seem to be double counting if the young players from one team make 2.5M in bonuses and the extra .83M is charged to the team's CBT cap while another team whose players make only 1M in bonuses still gets charged 1.67M. Of course for the majority of teams this is a moot point but it might not be for the Sox.
 

Rasputin

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Yeah, draft lotteries don't address the real problem. The real problem is not that there is an incentive to lose, the problem is that there is no real incentive to win if a team isn't a playoff team.

Until a pro sports league stops tying drafting to record, there will always be an incentive to lose. To combat tanking, there has to be some incentive to win that is at least approximately equal to the incentive to lose. Until that happens, there will continue to be tanking. Like the NBA.
Instead of giving the top picks to the teams with the worst record, they could give the top draft picks to the teams closest to .500. It eliminates the incentive to be bad and replaces it with an incentive to be mediocre, and mediocre teams aren't that far from the playoffs. It decreases the incentive to trade your good players in a bad year. You'd have to do something about owners that are okay finishing last every year just to collect the revenue sharing money, of course, but I'll bet it would make for a better product on the field in most cities.
 

Marceline

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As I understand the rules, if the pitcher bats the team loses the DH for the remainder of the game.

The NL now has the DH but did they change that part of the rule?

As for substitutions, as Jon Abbey said, those rules have no exceptions, nor should they.
What they should do is update the rule to say that if a team has not yet used a DH in a game, they can do so at any point to replace the pitcher spot in the lineup and then the normal DH rules apply after that point.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Instead of giving the top picks to the teams with the worst record, they could give the top draft picks to the teams closest to .500. It eliminates the incentive to be bad and replaces it with an incentive to be mediocre, and mediocre teams aren't that far from the playoffs. It decreases the incentive to trade your good players in a bad year. You'd have to do something about owners that are okay finishing last every year just to collect the revenue sharing money, of course, but I'll bet it would make for a better product on the field in most cities.
We've talked about this in the other thread but given the expanded playoffs and the revenue sharing, the idea is growing on me. It would make the last part of the season more exciting for at least some of the non-playoff teams.

Maybe just give the non playoff team with the best record the 1st pick and then go back to the traditional order for the rest of the rounds?

Would be interesting to see if it would be any better if you gave the 1st pick to the team with the best record against non-playoff teams, that might keep more teams in play at the end of the season.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Isn’t the primary problem that teams who tank aren’t doing so to claim the top pick. They’re trading their best players to save money and get prospects in return. I’m not convinced the draft order is a huge incentive.
 

mikcou

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Isn’t the primary problem that teams who tank aren’t doing so to claim the top pick. They’re trading their best players to save money and get prospects in return. I’m not convinced the draft order is a huge incentive.
This is the real issue - there isnt much incentive to put a product on the field that is all that great if you arent a legitimate contender. Owners get ~200M guaranteed through revenue sharing no matter what and only get ~50% of local revenues. If they dont own their own station, even the local TV deals are already locked in so what you end up with is no reason to spend any money whatsoever - both in the offseason and then an incentive to strip costs off the team later.

I'm not at all convinced that the difference in draft position means much of anything compared to the massive economic incentive to drop payroll - its not the NBA/NFL where a top 5 pick can be a significant contributor immediately and/or be franchise altering.
 

YTF

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How far in advance? And what for exactly? Is this a solution in search of a problem?
Probably to avoid the deadline falling on the weekend.
https://dodgerblue.com/why-is-non-waiver-2021-mlb-trade-deadline-on-july-30/2021/07/15/#:~:text=More videos on YouTube&text=This year's trade deadline will,of afternoon games are played.

From last season...
This year’s trade deadline will be Friday, July 30, instead of Saturday, July 31, because the league preferred to avoid the deadline falling on a weekend, when a greater number of afternoon games are played.
The change is intended to be player-friendly; the league wanted to avoid players taking the field while rumors swirled, or being pulled off the field if they get traded in the middle of the game.
 

nighthob

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Isn’t the primary problem that teams who tank aren’t doing so to claim the top pick. They’re trading their best players to save money and get prospects in return. I’m not convinced the draft order is a huge incentive.
Given how many small market teams use top 10 picks on players based on signability they’d probably accomplish more by making the picks fully tradeable.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Stark has an article up on scheduling makeups / changes. It's Athletic paywall, but I'll quote one thing - his claim for the more balanced schedule starting next year. He presents it like it's a done deal:

DIVISION GAMES (56): Clubs play all four teams in their division 14 times. (Current total: 19). So that means one three-game series and one four-game series each, both home and road.
OTHER 10 LEAGUE OPPONENTS (60): Those non-division teams within your league? You’ll play them six times apiece — three at home, three on the road. (Current total: six or seven apiece.)
INTERLEAGUE SCHEDULE (46): Here’s how this works: Every team plays its interleague “rival” (Mets-Yankees, Cubs-White Sox, you know the deal) four times — two at home, two on the road. (Current total: four or six games, depending on the season.)
As for the other 14 teams in the opposite league, you’ll play three games against every one of them. Half are at home. Half are on the road.
https://theathletic.com/3178572/2022/03/11/stark-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-many-mlb-schedule-changes-in-2022-and-2023/
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, it's almost surprising when a sport makes a change for the better these days but there are a bunch of good things in this eventual CBA. The older players really did fight for the younger players, they figured out that it was hurting most of them too if those guys were too cheap by comparison.
 

Bosoxian

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Yeah, it's almost surprising when a sport makes a change for the better these days but there are a bunch of good things in this eventual CBA. The older players really did fight for the younger players, they figured out that it was hurting most of them too if those guys were too cheap by comparison.
i agrée 100% on this. It took them a while to figure out that cheap young guys were impacting the low/mid-tier free agents.