MLB 2020: We're Playing, but We Can't Agree on Anything

Ale Xander

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Other than Chase, is anything domed?

Phoenix in August is a lot different than Phoenix in February/March
 

Manramsclan

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The idea that any player would agree to play in a 50% capacity stadium is ludicrous in my opinion. Especially in light of these increased case numbers in states that eased restriction early.

Also, may I request the thread title be changed? This thread is much more about the status and details of a possible return than the ST being suspended.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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There is no proof that incidence of the virus decreases with warmer temperatures. Some studies go so far as to say that up to 52 degrees F there is a significant change but above that incidence no longer decreases.
I don't think the reference to the weather is about the virus, it's about playing baseball (or watching baseball) outside in August in Phoenix (or surrounding areas).
 

Average Reds

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I don't think the reference to the weather is about the virus, it's about playing baseball (or watching baseball) outside in August in Phoenix (or surrounding areas).
Except that in August, there will not be baseball being played outside. Because it's so hot that the dome will be closed. As it will in Houston.

Which may have been the point, but didn't seem to be emphasized in the subsequent posts.
 

Harry Hooper

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Except that in August, there will not be baseball being played outside. Because it's so hot that the dome will be closed. As it will in Houston.

Which may have been the point, but didn't seem to be emphasized in the subsequent posts.
The proto-MLB plan was to play games in the Cactus League spring training facilities, none of which have domes.

I am awaiting the announcement that the Red Sox will play games on a field laid out in the courtyard of George's Island. Teams will take water taxis to/from Logan Airport and stay on docked cruise ships.

 

Gdiguy

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The idea that any player would agree to play in a 50% capacity stadium is ludicrous in my opinion. Especially in light of these increased case numbers in states that eased restriction early.

Also, may I request the thread title be changed? This thread is much more about the status and details of a possible return than the ST being suspended.
Why would the players care? I don’t think there’s a model where fans are close enough to be contagious

What’s absolutely stupid is for a state like AZ or TX to have a 50% full stadium when their cases are already increasing, but that’s a fan danger issue not really a player one
 

jon abbey

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The current plan has teams all playing in their normal home stadiums, three ten team divisions (East/East, Central/Central, West/West) and you only play the other nine teams in the regular season, and a universal DH. I believe both sides are largely agreed on those aspects.
 
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The proto-MLB plan was to play games in the Cactus League spring training facilities, none of which have domes.

I am awaiting the announcement that the Red Sox will play games on a field laid out in the courtyard of George's Island. Teams will take water taxis to/from Logan Airport and stay on docked cruise ships.

I checked it out on Google Earth and it's exactly 305' down the RF line. CF is more like the Polo Grounds.
 

scottyno

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It won't work if they're actually having fans, but one idea I heard that I actually really liked, if they were going to all play in Arizona, play the games overnight, at like 10pm 2am 6am, and show them tape delayed later in the day as if they were live. If they play in an empty stadium with no media, or with a quarantine on reporting the game, results likely wouldn't get out and you wouldn't be playing in 100 degrees.
 

Oppo

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It won't work if they're actually having fans, but one idea I heard that I actually really liked, if they were going to all play in Arizona, play the games overnight, at like 10pm 2am 6am, and show them tape delayed later in the day as if they were live. If they play in an empty stadium with no media, or with a quarantine on reporting the game, results likely wouldn't get out and you wouldn't be playing in 100 degrees.
There are a lot of potential negative health effects, both physical and mental, to working overnight and affecting circadian rhythms including decreased performance. Not just players, consider the effects on older managers, staff, umpires, etc.
 

Ford Frick's Asterisk

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As someone who hasn't worked a regular 9-5 schedule in 20 years, I can attest that asking players to perform at a high level at even one of those start times, let alone bouncing back and forth between 10pm/2am/6am would be a complete disaster (even in a normal season, starting game times rarely swing more than 6 hours). I've always been a late-night person, so when we started a graveyard shift, I adapted quicker than some of my coworkers, but it still took at least a month for it to become physically normal... and my job is just sitting in front of a computer. Now consider how important routine is to most professional athletes. You'd never get a single game played to the quality level of Major League Baseball and it would probably result in a sharp increase of injuries.
 

MFYankees

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What about 72 games (one 4-game homestand versus each of the other 9 teams in the grouping), pro-rated pay for the players, and owners getting a larger cut of the extra (but only the extra) playoff games' revenues? Plan provides money and face-saving for both sides, plus reduced travel. Of course this implies that the safety issues have been addressed, but neither side seems too upset about that any more.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Anyone know how service time works here?
If they play a partial season, you mean? I would think that they'd pro-rate service time accrual. Normally a full season is 180 service days. If the season ends up being 60 days, I would think each day would equate to three service days.

I believe the plan if they don't play at all is to credit all players with the same service time they received in 2019.
 

scottyno

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As someone who hasn't worked a regular 9-5 schedule in 20 years, I can attest that asking players to perform at a high level at even one of those start times, let alone bouncing back and forth between 10pm/2am/6am would be a complete disaster (even in a normal season, starting game times rarely swing more than 6 hours). I've always been a late-night person, so when we started a graveyard shift, I adapted quicker than some of my coworkers, but it still took at least a month for it to become physically normal... and my job is just sitting in front of a computer. Now consider how important routine is to most professional athletes. You'd never get a single game played to the quality level of Major League Baseball and it would probably result in a sharp increase of injuries.
Is it the fact that it's actually night, or that it's a change of routine? Because there are plenty of sports where athletes travel across the world and then compete on short notice at a time that isn't anywhere near routine for them and are fine.
 

grimshaw

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As someone who hasn't worked a regular 9-5 schedule in 20 years, I can attest that asking players to perform at a high level at even one of those start times, let alone bouncing back and forth between 10pm/2am/6am would be a complete disaster (even in a normal season, starting game times rarely swing more than 6 hours). I've always been a late-night person, so when we started a graveyard shift, I adapted quicker than some of my coworkers, but it still took at least a month for it to become physically normal... and my job is just sitting in front of a computer. Now consider how important routine is to most professional athletes. You'd never get a single game played to the quality level of Major League Baseball and it would probably result in a sharp increase of injuries.
I get your overall point, but if you're a Rockies or Diamondbacks player, you are constantly traveling between three different time zones year after year anyhow before factoring in day and night games and early or late flights. There isn't one league wide routine.

With expanded rosters players should be better rested. No matter what form it's in, baseball is going to be truly strange this year.
 

scottyno

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Wait, you're saying that having the players play overnight isn't an issue, but are you suggesting that somehow it's a strain for the fans?
If this is in response to me, in the suggested scenario there wouldn't be any strain on fans because the games would air at normal times for them. I question if the routine part would mean anything at all for athletes because we see thousands of athletes every year who have to totally change their time routine on a weekly basis and don't have an issue competing at a high level.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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If this is in response to me, in the suggested scenario there wouldn't be any strain on fans because the games would air at normal times for them. I question if the routine part would mean anything at all for athletes because we see thousands of athletes every year who have to totally change their time routine on a weekly basis and don't have an issue competing at a high level.
It was but full admission I misread your original post, so mea culpa on the fans part.

As to the players, yeah, that's pretty ridiculous to expect them to be able to do that or be able to. It's one thing to fly from coast to coast and adjust a couple hours, it's quite another to ask them to become nocturnal.
 

scottyno

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It was but full admission I misread your original post, so mea culpa on the fans part.

As to the players, yeah, that's pretty ridiculous to expect them to be able to do that or be able to. It's one thing to fly from coast to coast and adjust a couple hours, it's quite another to ask them to become nocturnal.
Olympians, and world cup players do it every few years. I watch a lot of rugby 7s and most months in season most teams will be flying halfway around the world to play a tournament a couple days later. Maybe there's a difference in actually playing at 2am, vs playing halfway around the world at what you're used to being 2am, but I don't buy that they couldn't adjust to the time change pretty quickly.
 

Ford Frick's Asterisk

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If you've never done it, I'd expect around a month -- longer than they'll spend in spring training -- just to get used to a nocturnal routine, forget about playing professional sports at the same level. Then to expect them to switch between 6am and 10pm within a couple of days? No current sports schedule demands that. I used to work 7pm-5am at a completely non-physical job... 10pm would be my peak and by the time I'd get home at 6am I'd be exhausted. I still work 10-11 hours some days but I start at 10am now and it's much easier, no comparison... so there's also a "humans just aren't meant to be nocturnal" factor, even though I mostly was for more than a decade.

Regardless, it sounds like the scenarios they're considering are to play in their home cities and facing their cross league division, so fans won't even need to stay up for 10pm games this summer.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Olympians, and world cup players do it every few years. I watch a lot of rugby 7s and most months in season most teams will be flying halfway around the world to play a tournament a couple days later. Maybe there's a difference in actually playing at 2am, vs playing halfway around the world at what you're used to being 2am, but I don't buy that they couldn't adjust to the time change pretty quickly.
I Think it’s prob longer than you think. I really can’t speak to rugby 7s, but Olympians spend weeks in the village to acclimate and games are played at all hours, not just what is locally ‘normal’. World Cup isn’t much different. Regardless, those guys have days to recover in between games or events; you’re talking about every day, while flipping your whole life upside down. Most studies show roughly 3 weeks on average to adjust to new hours, some people longer (think years there) some never do. Above and beyond that you’re now mixing and matching over what a twelve hour span. I’m not trying to be a dink but I don’t see it being at all even close to feasible or agreed upon by the players and if they did it’s be a farce.
 

grimshaw

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There have been so many iterations on what players and owners were hypothetically throwing out there in early May when both sides seemed to want to cram as many games in as possible. Maybe the players thought they'd get more of their salaries back if they agreed to work in extreme conditions. I remember those days fondly. Now that owners don't seem to give a shit how many games are played, they'll at least want them during normal hours to maximize ratings.

This is really going to be a weird product if they scrape something together. If there are 48 games and you start 10-15, do you try and lose to get a good draft position or go for it to be one and done? Are teams even going to bother trading for prospects knowing they have lost a year of development and face potential work stoppages or a worse second wave?

This whole time could have been spent laying the groundwork for something long term first and then working towards patching this season.
 

rajendra82

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There is no proof that incidence of the virus decreases with warmer temperatures. Some studies go so far as to say that up to 52 degrees F there is a significant change but above that incidence no longer decreases.
There is considerable anecdotal evidence against hotter temperatures stopping the spread of of SARS-Cov-2. Two of the places the virus transmission is growing fastest at the moment are Brazil and India, where temperatures are quite hot.
 
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I Think it’s prob longer than you think. I really can’t speak to rugby 7s, but Olympians spend weeks in the village to acclimate and games are played at all hours, not just what is locally ‘normal’. World Cup isn’t much different. Regardless, those guys have days to recover in between games or events; you’re talking about every day, while flipping your whole life upside down. Most studies show roughly 3 weeks on average to adjust to new hours, some people longer (think years there) some never do. Above and beyond that you’re now mixing and matching over what a twelve hour span. I’m not trying to be a dink but I don’t see it being at all even close to feasible or agreed upon by the players and if they did it’s be a farce.
I've never heard that before about the Olympics. Wherever they're held, the T&F events are usually held during the daylight hours. I attended the 84 Olympics and there was a morning session that started around 10:00 am and an evening session that ended around 10:00 pm.

Olympians show up weeks before the games and hang out in the Olympic village? The wealthier, more successful athletes will fly in 2-3 days before their competions and not even stay in the village.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, I mean it's not going to happen anyway, but tennis players also fly all over the world and play a day or two later.
 

soxhop411

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Papelbon's Poutine

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I've never heard that before about the Olympics. Wherever they're held, the T&F events are usually held during the daylight hours. I attended the 84 Olympics and there was a morning session that started around 10:00 am and an evening session that ended around 10:00 pm.

Olympians show up weeks before the games and hang out in the Olympic village? The wealthier, more successful athletes will fly in 2-3 days before their competions and not even stay in the village.
Lol what % of Olympic athletes are wealthy? There’s a reason condoms are passed out in the welcome packages, it ain’t cause they’re dropping in for a quickie.
 

nattysez

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Heyman's been on social media quite a bit the past day or two. He seems to feel that the two sides are so dug in that the most likely resolution is a 50-game season. Which I guess means they play a normal-ish schedule in August and September and then have the usual playoffs.
 

nattysez

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Never forget Heyman just posts whatever Boras tells him to.
I think that's a little strong. He is clearly a Boras mouthpiece, but I do think he has independent thoughts as well. In any event, I don't see how his most recent reports/thoughts help Boras. Everyone loses if there is a 50-game season.
 

nattysez

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Lol what % of Olympic athletes are wealthy? There’s a reason condoms are passed out in the welcome packages, it ain’t cause they’re dropping in for a quickie.
Many of them have sponsors and do not want to risk getting whatever virus (not COVID-19) that is making the rounds in the Olympic Village. The main points the poster was making, that it takes 3 weeks to acclimate and events are held in the middle of the night, are not accurate.
 

geoflin

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Joel Sherman reports owners offered 75% prorated salaries for a 76-game season AND no draft pick compensation for losing free agents next yea
The proposal includes no loss of a draft pick for SIGNING players, it includes draft pick compensation in a supplemental round for LOSING players.
 

nattysez

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The proposal includes no loss of a draft pick for SIGNING players, it includes draft pick compensation in a supplemental round for LOSING players.
Ah - thanks for the clarification. I'll edit.

In any event, there is a lot of gloom and doom amongst the writers on Twitter today -- MLBPA apparently considers the latest offer from MLB a step backwards. They want prorated salaries no matter what.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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General rule of thumb is one day per time zone or hour to adjust. Some people are quicker, some are longer but you’re also adding in widely varying times overnight for games - even during day light first pitch times don’t spread or vary that widely - and ignoring any kind of mental or physical ramifications from going nocturnal for how long it would take to adjust and then play two months or more of games. It’s one thing to fly in and play a game off schedule or even a week for an Olympic event when you can hit pause on everything; it’s entirely another To expect it to be easy to transition for months. And while I have nothing more than anecdotal references, I disagree with your summation of Olympic village and who stays; I’ve read many a story otherwise. Regardless, is that where we’re at?
 

jon abbey

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Regardless, is that where we’re at?
No, I don't know of anyone outside of this thread who has suggested this, even the neutral sites in FL/ARI ideas were abandoned long ago, I believe. If/when games are played, they will be at team's normal stadiums at the regular times for that time zone.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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In case anyone is interested in ticket refund status, we were supposed to go to Wrigley to see the Sox later this month. I got this from the Cubs today
Thank you for contacting the Chicago Cubs and hope all is well during these unusual times!


Currently, our team is working diligently to construct the next procedures for games that have been affected along with those that will be affected in the future. Given the uncertain circumstances, our team is sending updated information on a month to month basis. Similar to March-May games, we anticipate directly notifying our ticket buyers as soon as we receive finalized information, along with the next steps for your order.