Missing Ohio State Player Found Dead

[HurstSoGood]

From cnn.com.
 
 
Ohio State University player Kosta Karageorge found dead from what appears to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound, authorities say.  

 

[The Napkin]

Matt Barnes ‏@Matt_NBC4 21m21 minutes ago
Kosta sent this text to his mother around 2am 11/26: SORRY IF I AM AN EMBARRASSMENT, BUT THESE CONCUSSIONS HAVE MY HEAD ALL (EXPLETIVE) UP."
 
 
So... yeah. I'm finding it harder and harder to enjoy watching football.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

Matt Barnes ‏@Matt_NBC4 21m21 minutes ago
Kosta sent this text to his mother around 2am 11/26: SORRY IF I AM AN EMBARRASSMENT, BUT THESE CONCUSSIONS HAVE MY HEAD ALL (EXPLETIVE) UP."
 
 
So... yeah. I'm finding it harder and harder to enjoy watching football.

 
 
If football caused his concussion issues, it happened in less than three months.  It is much more likely that his wrestling background led to an BI issues he had. He was a wrestler for his first four years, winning 35 matches, at OSU and then walked on this year and started practicing in pads in August. 
 
Sad story all around. 
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/ohio-state-football-player-concussion-history-missing-article-1.2026524

 

[HurstSoGood]

I'm not even sure what to think about this anymore. The research and growing evidence linking repeated head injuries sustained in football (and soccer for that matter) to longer term brain trauma and/or impairment (not sure if this is the proper medical phraseology) is scary as hell. 
 
 
More from CNN: 
"Sgt. Richard Weiner, with Columbus police, said that Karageorge died from what appears to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His body was found inside a Dumpster and identified at the scene through tattoos, Weiner said. A handgun was also recovered at the scene."
 
The guy was so despondent that he offed himself in a freakin dumpster. What a horrible, horrible thing for both him and his loved ones.

 

[soxfan121]

I'm not even sure what to think about this anymore. The research and growing evidence linking repeated head injuries sustained in football (and soccer for that matter) to longer term brain trauma and/or impairment (not sure if this is the proper medical phraseology) is scary as hell. 

 

 
 
If football caused his concussion issues, it happened in less than three months.  It is much more likely that his wrestling background led to an BI issues he had. He was a wrestler for his first four years, winning 35 matches, at OSU and then walked on this year and started practicing in pads in August. 
 
Sad story all around. 
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/ohio-state-football-player-concussion-history-missing-article-1.2026524

 
I understand the consternation about brain injuries and sports...but as GF09 points out, this isn't about football. It's about brain injury and sport. 
 
For the record (top left corner, under the banner) if it were "football", I'd be happy to add it to the ledger. But this is a problem in any sport with contact - from baseball to football and everything in between. Brain injuries are not good. But short of banning all organized sports, I don't see a solution.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

I'm not even sure what to think about this anymore. The research and growing evidence linking repeated head injuries sustained in football (and soccer for that matter) to longer term brain trauma and/or impairment (not sure if this is the proper medical phraseology) is scary as hell. 
 
 
More from CNN: 
"Sgt. Richard Weiner, with Columbus police, said that Karageorge died from what appears to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His body was found inside a Dumpster and identified at the scene through tattoos, Weiner said. A handgun was also recovered at the scene."
 
The guy was so despondent that he offed himself in a freakin dumpster. What a horrible, horrible thing for both him and his loved ones.

 
 
To clarify my point above, we should probably add all contact sports, including wrestling, which is the much more likely culprit in this case, to that list. 

 

[HurstSoGood]

Agreed. I am definitely not familiar with the head injury risks of HS/collegiate wrestling. WWE on the other hand…
 
But yeah, most any contact sport would apply here.

 

[IdiotKicker]

This is just awful. Banning sports isn't the answer, as I think sports in general contribute much more positively than negatively. But I think we need to have a really hard look at continuing to not only treat head injuries more seriously, but also incorporating counseling into situations with repeated head injuries to make sure at-risk participants have someone to talk to if they don't know where else to look.

 

[soxfan121]

Agreed. I am definitely not familiar with the head injury risks of HS/collegiate wrestling. WWE on the other hand…
 
But yeah, most any contact sport would apply here.

 
Justin Morneau says what? Any sport has a risk of brain injury. Short of ping pong and golf, any athletic activity carries a risk.  

 

[Jnai]

Damn. Really sad.
 
All of this makes football feel more and more, every week, like "Christians to the Lions". It's still fun as hell to watch, but it's exacting an awful toll on the participants.

 

[HurstSoGood]

 
Justin Morneau says what? Any sport has a risk of brain injury. Short of ping pong and golf, any athletic activity carries a risk.  

I have to take issue with your golf exclusion.  When I play 18, anyone within about 250 yards of me (in any direction) is at risk.
 
You did get me thinking about Ryan Freel, who claimed to have about 15 concussions over the course of his playing career. At first I thought he may have been one of those stereotypical smaller, overachieving kids who went full bore in his high school sports, eventually settling on baseball. I wondered if Freel and Morneau played football or hockey and suffered concussions earlier in life, which might have set the stage for future problems. I couldn't find anything on those questions, but I did read that Freel once ran through a wall playing Winter Ball in Venezuela. He was also concussed when taking a pick-off throw to 1B off his head. Turns out, MLB has had 15-20 concussion diagnoses seasonally over the last few years.
 
I'm glad MLB changed the rules for catchers/home plate collisions. (The same day MLB approved the rule, Freel's family received the news that Ryan had been diagnosed with Stage 2 CTE.) Now I only cringe at collisions (and near-misses) between infielders and outfielders.

 

[Jnai]

The real issue with athletes isn't the concussions. "Tip of the iceberg" is really an exceptionally good metaphor for concussions.
 
The sub-concussive, and yet still damaging impacts are the problem. Athletes sustain hundreds of those a season. Bob Stern, who runs the concussion research at BU, presented at this year's Saberseminar: he was showing research that showed high school offensive linemen sustain hundreds of head insults over the course of a career - without ever suffering a concussion - with the same impact force as driving a car 35mph into a brick wall.
 
I realize it's a sort of pedantic point - it's not concussions, but it's subconcussions! But, it's an important point. All those times when a guy gets hit so hard he's dizzy and collapses, those are just a tiny fraction of the problem. The real problem is when the guy gets hit really hard, is dizzy, but stays in the game to get hit again 30 seconds later. And again. And again. And again. That's the killer here.

 

[soxfan121]

The real issue with athletes isn't the concussions. "Tip of the iceberg" is really an exceptionally good metaphor for concussions.
 
The sub-concussive, and yet still damaging impacts are the problem. Athletes sustain hundreds of those a season. Bob Stern, who runs the concussion research at BU, presented at this year's Saberseminar: he was showing research that showed high school offensive linemen sustain hundreds of head insults over the course of a career - without ever suffering a concussion - with the same impact force as driving a car 35mph into a brick wall.
 
I realize it's a sort of pedantic point - it's not concussions, but it's subconcussions! But, it's an important point. All those times when a guy gets hit so hard he's dizzy and collapses, those are just a tiny fraction of the problem. The real problem is when the guy gets hit really hard, is dizzy, but stays in the game to get hit again 30 seconds later. And again. And again. And again. That's the killer here.

 
Well, sort of. It absolutely is a problem for some. For others, it doesn't seem to be as big an issue. You can find lots of old football players lamenting their wrecked knees but fewer lamenting their damaged brains. Part of that is awareness but part is that some human heads take more punishment (and keep on ticking) than others. 
 
There should be some very interesting scholarship over the next few decades on these issues. 

 

[oumbi]

Not to derail the discussion (Well, okay, yeah. This is a derailment.) Here are the list of head injuries by sport in the US. Cycling was far and away number one. But other articles say "of course it is number one" since more people engage in it than many other sports AND people tend to me more cavalier about safety measures. Football mandates helmets, pads, etc. and is not played by nearly as many people who bike. Further, many people simply get on a bike and go for a ride, helmet be damned.
 
But among team sports, football is clearly the source of most head injuries. And the best numbers I could find were 2009.
_______________
 
The following 20 sports/recreational activities represent the categories contributing to the highest number of estimated head injuries treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms in 2009.
Cycling: 85,389
Football: 46,948
Baseball and Softball: 38,394
Basketball: 34,692
Water Sports (Diving, Scuba Diving, Surfing, Swimming, Water Polo, Water Skiing, Water Tubing): 28,716
Powered Recreational Vehicles (ATVs, Dune Buggies, Go-Carts, Mini bikes, Off-road): 26,606
Soccer: 24,184
Skateboards/Scooters: 23,114
Fitness/Exercise/Health Club: 18,012
Winter Sports (Skiing, Sledding, Snowboarding, Snowmobiling): 16,948
Horseback Riding: 14,466
Gymnastics/Dance/Cheerleading: 10,223
Golf: 10,035
Hockey: 8,145
Other Ball Sports and Balls, Unspecified: 6,883
Trampolines: 5,919
Rugby/Lacrosse: 5,794
Roller and Inline Skating: 3,320
Ice Skating: 4,608
 
http://www.aans.org/patient%20information/conditions%20and%20treatments/sports-related%20head%20injury.aspx

 

[HurstSoGood]

I'm not a doctor, Jnai, but that sounds legit. I remember feeling sorry for all the linemen on my HS football team, because they were beating the hell out of each other on every play- in practices and in games: Repetitive head-knocking. As a CB, I usually found myself working through a half-hearted block from a prima donna WR.
 
Baseball never gave me a problem. In basketball, I was concussed once while trying to take a charge and was run over by an opposing power forward who drove my head into the court. Nothing I ever experienced compares to what these college and pro football players go through every day. They are in a whole different risk category.   
 
Karageorge was clearly in a bad place mentally. It will be interesting to see how much can be found out about the physical aspect. IIRC, Seau shot himself in the chest to, presumably, preserve his brain for autopsy? I haven't heard anything more on the Kosta case. Anyone know if a headshot would prevent docs from determining if CTE was in play?

 

[soxfan121]

Anyone know if a headshot would prevent docs from determining if CTE was in play?

 
If there's tissue, the experts at BU or other research sites can examine it. Jovan Belcher also shot himself in the head. 
 
And, in case you weren't aware, I just wrote about this up and to left. 

 

[StuckOnYouk]

 
If there's tissue, the experts at BU or other research sites can examine it. Jovan Belcher also shot himself in the head. 
 
And, in case you weren't aware, I just wrote about this up and to left. 

 
Jesus, the pic of the advanced CTE brain is scary. Nice write up.
 
My boys are more baseball than football so far. Thank god.

 

[HurstSoGood]

 
If there's tissue, the experts at BU or other research sites can examine it. Jovan Belcher also shot himself in the head. 
 
And, in case you weren't aware, I just wrote about this up and to left. 

 
Wow. And thanks. And WOW. Great article. You guys are doing a fantastic job with the site.

 

[Jnai]

The following 20 sports/recreational activities represent the categories contributing to the highest number of estimated head injuries treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms in 2009.
 
 

 
The vast majority of football head injuries are probably not of the "go to the emergency room" variety. Apart from the fact that many, many more people ride their bike, the vast majority of cycling head injuries are.

 

[soxfan121]

 
The vast majority of football head injuries are probably not of the "go to the emergency room" variety. Apart from the fact that many, many more people ride their bike, the vast majority of cycling head injuries are.

 
Well, the vast majority of football (and all sports players) are 18-and-younger, with moms and Obamacare and stuff. I think the assumption that the vast majority of "football head injuries" at the college and especially professional levels are not "emergency room" qualified but I'm gonna guess (no numbers to back it up) that MOM takes more than few kids to the ER with potential head injuries - in about the same ratio as kids who fall off bikes without a helmet.

 

[Gunfighter 09]

One of the difficult things about this is that human beings don't get concussions in a uniform manner. Some people are more prone to them and some people, for some reason are less prone to them and we do not know what makes this so. 
 
Obviously treating the symptoms of CTE / TBI and care for those affected is where the majority of effort and resources should go, but the two things that I think would be most helpful are: A.  determining what are the indicators, both physiological and behavioral (the activities) that make one more or less prone to concussions, and B. developing a better quick diagnosis tool for concussions. The linked article below talks about efforts DoD has made towards a finger prick blood test, and I think this would be especially helpful in contact sports like football or boxing / fighting / wrestling. The current diagnosis techniques seem really arbitrary and easily influenced to this layman. Towards the first point,  I think parents and kids would be really well served if we could determine in advanced whether or not your kid is going to be one of those people who is more likely to suffer concussions and potential brain trauma from contact sports. 
 
http://archive.navytimes.com/article/20140831/NEWS/308310022/DoD-makes-advances-toward-blood-test-diagnose-concussions

 

[Fred in Lynn]

 
 
If football caused his concussion issues, it happened in less than three months.  It is much more likely that his wrestling background led to an BI issues he had. He was a wrestler for his first four years, winning 35 matches, at OSU and then walked on this year and started practicing in pads in August. 
 
Sad story all around. 
 
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/ohio-state-football-player-concussion-history-missing-article-1.2026524

I think you're wrestling the wrong way. In one isolated case study, I had one concussion in my glorious 7-year competitive wrestling career, and that was from standing up and crushing my head in an open locker door. What you wrote is certainly a possibility, but I'm not sure it's "likely." We'd need more data about his brain, and even then uncertainty due to other factors will exist.

 

[soxfan121]

http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/12/05/kosta-karageorge-ohio-state-death
 

“If there was something going on, he had a hell of way of masking it or hiding it,” Oghobaase said. “There was nothing. There were no signs at all. He was a tough guy, man. I couldn’t tell you why or what or how. It doesn’t make sense to me.”
 

 
Ten or more friends and teammates...every one of them like the above.