Misremembered Greatness on the Red Sox
- Thread starter Hank Scorpio
- Start date
Every time this thread gets bumped I see the title and think it says “Dismembered Greatness of the Red Sox” and I’m horrified for a moment.
I remember Ellis Burks being more of a power hitter during his time with Boston. He was very good offensively but he ended up putting up much bigger numbers after leaving Boston. Colorado (40 and 32 home runs), and San Francisco (31 and 24), and Cleveland (28 and 32), which must have caused me to forget he never hit more than 21 in any season with the Sox. I wish he had stayed and developed into that player at Fenway.
Sele threw wayyyyyy too many straight 90 mph fastballs and not nearly enough huge drop 12-6 curveballs.
Remy was good down the stretch in 1978, and provided some speed on the base paths (30 stolen bases), which was a rare commodity for those Red Sox teams. But he was never the same after injuring his knee halfway through the 1979 season (iconic scene of being carried to the clubhouse by Jim Rice), which was likely exacerbated when he tried to come back too soon.
EDIT: From the same era, I had thought Jack Brohamer was a decent utility infielder that could hit the ball. Turns out his numbers with the Sox were even worse than Remy's: 0.256/0.313/0.329/0.642, and OPS+ of 72.
Last edited:
Geez, that's a bummer. I wonder what ended up happening to JHJ after he was done with baseball?
One Pena I didn't see mentioned was Tony Pena. I recall him signing here to a ton of hype after coming off an All Star season (his 5th) with the Cardinals. To be fair, the Sox catching had been horrific the prior couple of seasons, with an injured and declining Rich Gedman, the awful Rick Cerone, Marc "Thanks Dad!!" Sullivan, and failed phenom John Marzano all failing to make an impact.
Seemed like a great signing, and the Sox made the playoffs Pena's first season here in 1990. I had remembered him as a decent hitting catcher. I clearly misremembered as his OPS+ in his 3.5 seasons here: 85, 66, 62, and a whopping 32.
Seemed like a great signing, and the Sox made the playoffs Pena's first season here in 1990. I had remembered him as a decent hitting catcher. I clearly misremembered as his OPS+ in his 3.5 seasons here: 85, 66, 62, and a whopping 32.
He had no power, but his OBP was just about exactly league average. If he's the worst player in your starting lineup, you're doing pretty well.
I was gonna come in here in say Matt Stairs as well. I suspect that's what a great career after he leaves and being a cult favorite type of player wherever he went will get you.
His bat on those '98 and '99 Sox would've really helped round out that lineup.
His bat on those '98 and '99 Sox would've really helped round out that lineup.
I have a vague memory of Bob Zupcic.
First, in the early 1990s, I’m not sure what year, the Boston Herald did one of those mid-season report cards where all the players get a letter grade. They gave Zupcic an A+.
Not sure if this was done mockingly, or if he was really good for a short time. I will say I briefly remember my older cousin being excited about him at one point.
Another one of my cousin’s brief favorites was Phil Plantier. I remember having 1991 Upper Deck rookie cards for both Plantier and Michael Jordan - and my cousin, who would have been 15 or 16, kept trying to convince 9-10 year old me to trade them to him. I knew that the Plantier card was worth about $4 and the Jordan was $18 - and they were the Crown Jewels of my collection. He made multiple offers, which I refused. Finally, he offered me a big box of random cards he had for just the Plantier card, and I accepted. Turned out the cards he gave me were a bunch from the 70s and 80s… had some pretty good ones in there.
How dare you speak ill of the Remdawg! LOL As mentioned below, Remy did provide "speed" on those one base at a time Red Sox teams of the late 70s. His career was never the same after his knee injury. I'm with you though. I thought Jerry's career was better than it was although to call it "bad" might be a slight exaggeration.
My contribution to this thread is Scott Fletcher a second baseman who played mainly with the White Sox and Red Sox. Through a family friend I actually met Scott once when he was with Texas. When he came to the Red Sox, I was sure he was the final piece to the Red Sox winning the pennant. Looking back now, 12 year old me was wrong.
The internet says that was the same series -- 2 days after - Tony C. got beaned.
California Angels vs Boston Red Sox Box Score: August 20, 1967 | Baseball-Reference.com
Painful looking at the box score for the August 18th game in which Tony C was beaned.
I think Zupcic hype was definitely a thing. I vaguely remember being a kid at a card show in like 91 or 92 and using a gift certificate to buy an autographed Zupcic ball (over Mo Vaughn!).
Gammons promised me that Rey Quinones hit like Frank Robinson and fielded like Luis Aparicio.
Gammons was right insofar as Rey hit righthanded (like Robby) and fielded righthanded (Like Luis), but that was about it.
Gammons was right insofar as Rey hit righthanded (like Robby) and fielded righthanded (Like Luis), but that was about it.
Zupcic made one of the best catches i ever saw in person in CF, running into and leaping above the angled bullpen wall in the triangle.
I was convinced Phil Plantier was going to be a power hitting force for a decade. He hit 11 HR in 1991 in 53 games with an OPS+ of 178. He followed it up with just 7 HR in 108 games in 1992 good for an OPS+ of 90. He was traded to SD for Jose Melendez and proceeded to hit 34 HR and I said ‘I told you so!’ to anyone who would listen. He started to fade quickly after that. I loved his crouched down batting stance
I thought Rico Brogna was going to come to Boston and be a reliable slugger, hitting 20+ HRs per year and locking up the 1st base position for years to come. 56 at-bats later with a 35 OPS+, he was done.
A year later in 2001 I thought Chris Stynes was going to basically be what Bill Mueller ended up being. I was way off on that one too. He wasn't terrible, but he was nothing to write home about.
A year later in 2001 I thought Chris Stynes was going to basically be what Bill Mueller ended up being. I was way off on that one too. He wasn't terrible, but he was nothing to write home about.
Okay. outside of tom bolton... I was a kevin romine kid. I remembered him being fast, at least an average bat, and young. Nope. Nope. And nope.
Those late 80s early 90s teams were terrible.
Those late 80s early 90s teams were terrible.
I remember when Romine walked the Sox off against the Royals one July Saturday during the 88 Morgan Magic run. I remember thinking, “we have Greenwell, Burks and Benzinger. Where is Romine going to play?”
Wait... would it be inappropriate to say Sam Horn?
My first real memories of the Sox began with a trip in 1975 to see the double 4-0 shutouts in late September. For some reason I thought Deron Johnson was interesting. He got kind of hot that weekend I guess? Or maybe it was cool that he almost had the same name as the manager. Or that I had his card. Anyway, whatever greatness I might have attributed to him is 1000% misremembered.
My first real memories of the Sox began with a trip in 1975 to see the double 4-0 shutouts in late September. For some reason I thought Deron Johnson was interesting. He got kind of hot that weekend I guess? Or maybe it was cool that he almost had the same name as the manager. Or that I had his card. Anyway, whatever greatness I might have attributed to him is 1000% misremembered.
Nah, Ugueth Urbina was who we thought he was.
This thread made me think of the previously mentioned Wes Chamberlain. I had convinced myself over the years that his first season with the Red Sox was stellar and that he failed afterward. Not the case. Then I wondered whether he had a special Spring Training that got people worked up, but I doubt it.
At this point, he might best be remembered for his snot rockets
Same. I was sure he was gonna be the 5-Tool Star we had been waiting for. Every time I so the Jetpunk “Top 100 Career HR List”, I am always amazed that he is in there.
Lee Smith. Loved the idea of having a stud closer on the Red Sox, couldn't believe we got him for two of the goats of the '86 WS. Big Lee had some good counting stats, including a very nice K/9 number at a time when relievers weren't blowing people away at the same rates they are now. But with Boston he made games more stressful than they needed to be by allowing way too many baserunners, and he wasn't very good in his limited playoff time. I remember him blowing at least a few wins for Clemens, and in the last year or so in Boston his splits at Fenway were not good. I was annoyed when Boston signed who I thought was an over the hill Reardon to eventually replace Smith. Despite the beard, Reardon just wasn't as imposing as Big Lee. So Smith wasn't bad by any means, and of course he ended up being a HOFer, but in retrospect just not as great as I thought at the time when he was with Boston.
Last edited:
I started watching baseball as a kid in '95 and for some reason I remember being a fan of Luis Alicea but looking at his stats the man was not a very good player.
Tim Naehring is another guy from that team who might fit the bill. I remember his career being derailed by an injury and I thought he was putting up all-star numbers when he was healthy. His stats weren't bad, but they're not quite as good as I remembered, either.
Tim Naehring is another guy from that team who might fit the bill. I remember his career being derailed by an injury and I thought he was putting up all-star numbers when he was healthy. His stats weren't bad, but they're not quite as good as I remembered, either.
That Herald report card must have been from July 1992. In mid-July of that year, Zupcic was hitting .343/.388/.480 in his first 163 PAs, playing a lot of CF, was only 25 and had been a first round draft pick, so the future looked great and so
an A+ would have made sense at that point.
But it turned out that his .379 BABIP was not sustainable and the league basically figured him out. The rest of the season he hit .236/.283/.276. in 269 PA and basically never hit well again.
That 1992 team was quite bad. They couldn't hit at all, despite having Mo Vaughn, Wade Boggs, Jack Clark, Tom Brunansky, Tony Pena, Ellis Burks, Mike Greenwell, John Valentin, Jody Reed, Tim Naehring, Phil Plantier, and 2-time All-Star Scott Cooper on the roster at various times. If each of them had put up their career average numbers, that team would have been loaded, but instead they virtually all were bad.
The pitching was top-heavy with Clemens and Viola throwing a combined 484 really good innings, but the rest of the rotation was Joe Hesketh, John Dopson, Mike Gardiner, Danny Darwin and the immortal Matt Young.
When I was like 8, I remember seeing a baseball encyclopedia in the library with the subtitle "From Aaron to Zupcic"
I got married the day of his first start. At this point, the marriage has lasted about 150 times longer than his time with the Red Sox.
Maybe even worse in '78 was Burleson leading off (Remy batted second most of the time). OBP of .296, of his seasons in Boston as a regular, happened to be his worst offensively.
Let's just say that there were better options for the top of the lineup from an on-base perspective on that team. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1978.shtml
I really thought Mike "At least my name's not Wes" Gardiner would be a really solid number 3 starter for many years.
Yeah, that 1992 team was my least favorite season by far. I was a big Wade Boggs fan, so him having such a bad season and then leaving to go to the Yankees was a dagger. Same with them losing Burks and a much lesser degree Jody Reed as well (but at least losing Jody Reed started a winding path that led to the Pedro trade). I guess there were some rays of hope with Valentin and Vaughn showing some promise.
And as mentioned Plantier got figured out after his callup in 1991, but he did hit a game tying homer in the 9th against the Yankees in a game in 1992 that they ended up winning in extra innings, in my second game ever at Fenway, so that was nice.
And I would have camped out on the lush green grass of Cooperstown for a week just to see it.
I think the catch you’re referring to is when he dove into the right field stands to rob David Ortiz (a very young and slimmer David Ortiz) of a HR.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yME1wF582rE&pp=ygULT3J0aXogYnJhZ2c%3D
Don't look at Rick Burleson, who often joined Remy at the top of batting order in the days when the thinking was that teams needed scrappy, speedy "table-setters" at the top of the order before the middle of the lineup thumpers. The Rooster had two seasons with an OPS+ over 100 in his career, only one of which was with Boston (1976).
But those were simpler days, when we didn't realize that among the reasons our team kept coming up short might have been giving the most at-bats to two of our weaker hitters.
Great catch! But this was definitely a catch Bragg made against the Red Sox, as a member of the Mariners.
Moldy oldies:
World Series champs (with other teams) Dick McAuliffe and Tim McCarver! Ted Sizemore! (Should we mention Grady Sizemore?)
HOFers Luis Aparicio and Juan Marichal! (both toast when they arrived).
I thought Cha Cha Cepeda would be toast, but he was actually pretty good for the season he served as the teams’s first DH.
Similarly, I thought Doggie Perez was done when he arrived, but he had one productive season for the Sox at age 38 before falling off a cliff…
World Series champs (with other teams) Dick McAuliffe and Tim McCarver! Ted Sizemore! (Should we mention Grady Sizemore?)
HOFers Luis Aparicio and Juan Marichal! (both toast when they arrived).
I thought Cha Cha Cepeda would be toast, but he was actually pretty good for the season he served as the teams’s first DH.
Similarly, I thought Doggie Perez was done when he arrived, but he had one productive season for the Sox at age 38 before falling off a cliff…