Misremembered Greatness on the Red Sox

[Hank Scorpio]

Over the years, we’ve all had our “binky” players. The less than elite players who we just enjoyed having around. But this is a bit different.

I typically have a pretty good memory of players who performed well on the Red Sox, and players who did not perform well. And for the most part, I think I could get reasonably close to guessing the stats for most Red Sox players anytime from 1995 on.

But I recently learned I have one glaring blind spot.

Matt Stairs.

I thought he was a fantastic player in Boston. A bench guy. A fourth outfielder. A pinch hitter. But a damn good one. I am completely convinced he joined the team mid-season in 1995, and hit several key home runs down the stretch, and had at least five walk-off hits.

Similar players to the 1995 Matt Stairs that lives in my memory? 2013 Mike Carp and 2018 Steve Pearce.

If you asked me to guess Matt Stairs’ stats from 1995, I’d say he hit .296 with 7 home runs, drove in 35-40 guys in 55ish games, with an OBP around .370 and a SLG around .550

And I would be wrong. Not even close.

Matt Stairs was terrible in 1995. OPS+ was in the 70s. He had one home run. Sub-.300 OBP. He had one good week in early July, and it looks like a big hit in August. But that’s about it.

Anyone else have a player who they remember as being great, but actually were anything but?

 

[jose melendez]

Over the years, we’ve all had our “binky” players. The less than elite players who we just enjoyed having around. But this is a bit different.

I typically have a pretty good memory of players who performed well on the Red Sox, and players who did not perform well. And for the most part, I think I could get reasonably close to guessing the stats for most Red Sox players anytime from 1995 on.

But I recently learned I have one glaring blind spot.

Matt Stairs.

I thought he was a fantastic player in Boston. A bench guy. A fourth outfielder. A pinch hitter. But a damn good one. I am completely convinced he joined the team mid-season in 1995, and hit several key home runs down the stretch, and had at least five walk-off hits.

Similar players to the 1995 Matt Stairs that lives in my memory? 2013 Mike Carp and 2018 Steve Pearce.

If you asked me to guess Matt Stairs’ stats from 1995, I’d say he hit .296 with 7 home runs, drove in 35-40 guys in 55ish games, with an OBP around .370 and a SLG around .550

And I would be wrong. Not even close.

Matt Stairs was terrible in 1995. OPS+ was in the 70s. He had one home run. Sub-.300 OBP. He had one good week in early July, and it looks like a big hit in August. But that’s about it.

Anyone else have a player who they remember as being great, but actually were anything but?

I had the exact same relationship with Matt Stairs. I was stunned to find out how bad he was that year.

I remembered Wilton Veras having a good first year before proving dissapointing, but he appears to have always been bad.

It's not really the same, but the Juan Pena what could have been has haunted me. Even without the injuries, he probably wouldn't have been much based on his minor league work.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

I always thought Lee Tinsley had at least ONE good season. But he sucked. BUT, we traded him for Heathcliff Slocumb who we flipped the next year for Lowe and Tek. So thanks, Lee!

 

[tims4wins]

I always thought Lee Tinsley had at least ONE good season. But he sucked. BUT, we traded him for Heathcliff Slocumb who we flipped the next year for Lowe and Tek. So thanks, Lee!

He had a good first series in 1995, I'll always remember that. I think he led the league in RBI through 3 games with 7.

 

[mwonow]

I thought my answer to this would be Rick Miller, but nope, he actually *was* pretty good!

So, I'll go with Mark Clear. I remember him as a guy with a huge curveball who imploded big-time in a key spot against the MFY, but was a quality closer beyond that. Turns out that he set a (Sox) career high for saves with 14 in 1982 - and coincidentally, had the same number of wins. He also had matching win and save totals in 1983 and 1984. Unfortunately, those numbers were 4 and 8, followed by a 3 save, 1 win season in 1985. Turns out 1982 was his only double-digit save year with the Sox.

 

[Fishy1]

I always felt like we missed out on Carlos Pena in 2006, and remember thinking "man, this guy is mashing, don't let him go!"

He had an OPS+ of 96 in 37 plate appearances. He mashed for three our four years after that, it's true, but yeah, he didn't do anything in Boston.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Carlos Pena is one of those guys that it seems like was on the Sox radar for so many years, that
It often becomes difficult to remember if he was ever actually on the team. Other guys in that group, for me, include Rocco Baldelli, Rico Brogna, Adam LaRoche, and Travis Lee, the latter never played for the team but I could have sworn he did!

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Over the years, we’ve all had our “binky” players. The less than elite players who we just enjoyed having around. But this is a bit different.

I typically have a pretty good memory of players who performed well on the Red Sox, and players who did not perform well. And for the most part, I think I could get reasonably close to guessing the stats for most Red Sox players anytime from 1995 on.

But I recently learned I have one glaring blind spot.

Matt Stairs.

I thought he was a fantastic player in Boston. A bench guy. A fourth outfielder. A pinch hitter. But a damn good one. I am completely convinced he joined the team mid-season in 1995, and hit several key home runs down the stretch, and had at least five walk-off hits.

Similar players to the 1995 Matt Stairs that lives in my memory? 2013 Mike Carp and 2018 Steve Pearce.

If you asked me to guess Matt Stairs’ stats from 1995, I’d say he hit .296 with 7 home runs, drove in 35-40 guys in 55ish games, with an OBP around .370 and a SLG around .550

And I would be wrong. Not even close.

Matt Stairs was terrible in 1995. OPS+ was in the 70s. He had one home run. Sub-.300 OBP. He had one good week in early July, and it looks like a big hit in August. But that’s about it.

Anyone else have a player who they remember as being great, but actually were anything but?

Stairs is one of those guys who had a decent career post-Red Sox so we think he had to have been that guy with the Sox. But he wasn't and they were entirely justified in moving on.

For me, it was Todd Benzinger. In 1988, he seemed so promising to 9 year old me. They had moved Dewey to 1B to make room for Rice and Greenwell in the same OF. That ended early as Rice became the full time DH and Greeny moved to LF permanently, but instead of putting Dewey back in RF, Benzinger became the starter there. Later in the year when Joe Morgan took over, he flipped Benzinger and Dewey because clearly they both needed to be in the lineup but Dewey was not a 1B. Benzinger was going to be one of the cornerstones of a great young lineup (Greenwell, Burks, Reed, Marzano, Horn, etc). Then they traded him for Nick Esasky that winter and it all ended.

Benzinger's line in that season that had him changing position just to keep his potent bat in the lineup: .254/.293/.425/.718, 96 OPS+, 13 HR, 70 RBI. Decidedly not an all star in the making (and he never was). But I would swear he was that year.

 

[wiffleballhero]

The Peter Gammons pump-up effect was real. I'm still convinced that Frankie Rodriguez is gonna be a star.

 

[simplicio]

I don't remember anything about Aaron Cook except his 81 pitch cgso in Seattle, but the stats tell me he didn't actually do that every start.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

It's not really the same, but the Juan Pena what could have been has haunted me. Even without the injuries, he probably wouldn't have been much based on his minor league work.

We saw one of Peña’s two starts in a sports bar in Providenciales, and were SO high on his potential. And then he disappeared.

 

[bankshot1]

In the still present after glow of the fun of 1967, fond memories of Jerry Adair, a journey man utility infielder still remains. Traded for mid-season for depth, Adair seemed to play over his head and came up big, in what was the best pennant race I ever experienced. He was a light hitting guy, but I remember a game late summer against the Angels, who at that time were in the race, Sox were down 8-0 and mounted a great comeback, capped by Adair hitting a game winning dinger for a 9-8 win. I was listening on the car radio, as Ken Coleman described the Fenway frenzy. Something was happening there what it was ain't exactly clear, but it was the start of that last crazy month of the '67 season. Adair, not a black ink guy, got a decent amounts of MVP votes that year for his clutch play.

Always had a special place for Jerry Adair.

 

[Fishy1]

We saw one of Peña’s two starts in a sports bar in Providenciales, and were SO high on his potential. And then he disappeared.

Well, he didn't disappear, he hit 46 home runs for the TBDR the next year! And he had been quite good in Detroit before that, although they kept sending him down to AAA for reasons that elude me. I guess we were still in an era where if a guy struck out too much, it didn't matter if he was mashing, he was "wasting opportunities." it's pretty bizarre that a guy who had a OPS+ of 113 and 114 in consecutive seasons (including 18 home runs in just 79 games!) couldn't get a shot at the majors in 2006.

The Sox had Youkilis at first base and Ortiz at DH, so there really wasn't room for Carlos. But it's a fun what-if.

If I remember correctly, the one home runs he hit in a Red Sox uniform was somewhere around the triangle.

And now I've looked it up... turns out it was a walk-off! And not to the triangle at all.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Think he’s talking about Juan Pena!

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

We saw one of Peña’s two starts in a sports bar in Providenciales, and were SO high on his potential. And then he disappeared.

I believe one was a nationally televised FOX Saturday game against the Angels.

 

[Fishy1]

Think he’s talking about Juan Pena!

Ah, I see that now!

 

[Andy Merchant]

I remember John Henry Johnson starting a few games in 1984 and just blowing people away with a bunch of strikeouts. I was disappointed when he disappeared the following season, but looking at his stats he just gave up too many hits, walks, and home runs to be a reliable contributor.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Daniel Nava, but how could he not go down hill after that first at bat?! He did have one very good year in 2013. 204 total bases!

 

[bob burda]

Fred Lynn

He was a very good all-star level. player, with his ROY season off the charts as if establishing him as a HOF level talent, but he was not nearly as good as I thought he was when I was in my early adolescent yrs.

In Boston he had huge home/road and platoon splits. These eased off some when he went to the Angels, but the illusions from his great home field performance in BOS made me think he was a HOF level player before he left, and he really wasn’t.

 

[slamminsammya]

I first started watching baseball in 1998. I remember distinctly seeing Mike Benjamin live hitting some important triple and scoring some big runs in a few games and thinking this guy is great. i also had his baseball card and why would they make a card for him if he wasn’t a great player.

i believe his ops+ in 1998 was around 50.

 

[Al Zarilla]

In the still present after glow of the fun of 1967, fond memories of Jerry Adair, a journey man utility infielder still remains. Traded for mid-season for depth, Adair seemed to play over his head and came up big, in what was the best pennant race I ever experienced. He was a light hitting guy, but I remember a game late summer against the Angels, who at that time were in the race, Sox were down 8-0 and mounted a great comeback, capped by Adair hitting a game winning dinger for a 9-8 win. I was listening on the car radio, as Ken Coleman described the Fenway frenzy. Something was happening there what it was ain't exactly clear, but it was the start of that last crazy month of the '67 season. Adair, not a black ink guy, got a decent amounts of MVP votes that year for his clutch play.

Always had a special place for Jerry Adair.

The Adair game! I listened to that game at my parents house, and it was, about the Sox, whoa, are we really doing something here? Except for one Bob Gibson, we did everything. Brought the Red Sox back to prominence, etc., etc.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I believe one was a nationally televised FOX Saturday game against the Angels.

That must have been the one.

 

[pjheff]

Fred Lynn

He was a very good all-star level. player, with his ROY season off the charts as if establishing him as a HOF level talent, but he was not nearly as good as I thought he was when I was in my early adolescent yrs.

In Boston he had huge home/road and platoon splits. These eased off some when he went to the Angels, but the illusions from his great home field performance in BOS made me think he was a HOF level player before he left, and he really wasn’t.

Fred Lynn is my favorite baseball player of all time, and his name belongs nowhere near this thread.

 

[curly2]

Fred Lynn

He was a very good all-star level. player, with his ROY season off the charts as if establishing him as a HOF level talent, but he was not nearly as good as I thought he was when I was in my early adolescent yrs.

In Boston he had huge home/road and platoon splits. These eased off some when he went to the Angels, but the illusions from his great home field performance in BOS made me think he was a HOF level player before he left, and he really wasn’t.

Fred Lynn had 32 WAR in six years (plus one month in 1974) with the Sox. That was a Hall of Fame pace if he had come close to keeping it up, no matter how much of it came at Fenway.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

In 1988 the Texas Rangers released DH Larry Parrish and the Sox signed him around the time of Morgan Magic. When I think of Parrish I recall him going on a year and mashing dingers every other night.

This was not true. I think he may have had a good first week or ten days but he was pretty cooked after that.

But man, I had Larry Parrish mania in the summer of 88. I think I bought his rookie card thinking that it would be a wise investment*.

* I did not really understand baseball card economics very much when I was a kid.

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

I might get crap for this, but Marty Barrett wasn't nearly as good as I thought as a kid. Sure, he kicked ass in the '86 playoffs, and in my eyes he was the "quintessential number two hitter". But he only had two seasons at the plate that could even be considered mediocre, and his numbers should have been better with Boggs on base ahead of him so often. His defense numbers were meh. He did lead baseball in sacrifices for three straight years, so that's......something??

 

[biollante]

Fred Lynn ? He played well with the Red Sox and was a fave of my house growing up along with Jim Rice and Dewey.

Maybe Jack Clark.

 

[iddoc]

Rick Burleson, at least offensively

 

[Farty Barrett]

I always thought Lee Tinsley had at least ONE good season. But he sucked. BUT, we traded him for Heathcliff Slocumb who we flipped the next year for Lowe and Tek. So thanks, Lee!

Then replaced with Darren Bragg, who I thought was going to be a star!

Those Keven Kennedy years were stacked.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

The Peter Gammons pump-up effect was real. I'm still convinced that Frankie Rodriguez is gonna be a star.

At which position?

 

[TrotNixonRing]

Tom “don’t call me Michael” Bolton — great for a good 1990 team. Three CGs!!!

Jeff Gray. Career ruined by stroke.

And while on the top of early 90’s pitchers, Greg Harris was a workhorse.

 

[Homar]

I've always believed, and probably will until I die, that had Fred Lynn remained with the Sox, he would be in the Hall of Fame, unless injuries derailed him entirely. He was a monster at Fenway and very good on the road. He went to Anaheim, a cookie cutter, pedestrian ballpark and he was just very good everywhere. His swing was tailor made for Fenway. He would have had a career, like Todd Helton's in Colorado, that was improved by home cooking, but with numbers that would have been undeniable.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Then replaced with Darren Bragg, who I thought was going to be a star!

Those Keven Kennedy years were stacked.

I remember being stoked when we acquired Darren Bragg. I think it was entirely based on a phenomenal catch he had made against us either early in the year, or the year prior. Just seemed like he would be an amazing dynamic player for us.

I also remember being disappointed when we signed Jamie Moyer, because he was an “ancient” 34 at the time.

 

[natpastime162]

I had the exact same relationship with Matt Stairs. I was stunned to find out how bad he was that year.

I remembered Wilton Veras having a good first year before proving dissapointing, but he appears to have always been bad.

It's not really the same, but the Juan Pena what could have been has haunted me. Even without the injuries, he probably wouldn't have been much based on his minor league work.

Juan Pena appear in an SI baseball preview as the Sox prospect to make an impact with team (think they selected one for each). This felt like the infancy of managing workload, especially for young pitchers. I knew a little about it, but not a ton. He proceeded to get injured at some point that year (maybe even in ST). Around that same time I purchased a bunch of baseball books and one of them pointed out Pena average 7 1/3rd innings per start as a 19 year-old in A ball (187.2 innings in 26 starts). That always stuck with me.

 

[Margo McCready]

I’m still fully expecting 1990 Danny Heep to hit .300 again.

 

[RG33]

College-Me was convinced that Boy Wonder GM Dan Duquette made the trade-of-all-trades by bringing future multiple Batting Champion Wil Cordero to the Red Sox. I still feel like he was slashing the ball all over Fenway at some point, made an all-star team or two, and was in the thick of a batting title race. Alas. . . . .

 

[Ale Xander]

Billy Hatcher

 

[Harry Hooper]

I've always believed, and probably will until I die, that had Fred Lynn remained with the Sox, he would be in the Hall of Fame, unless injuries derailed him entirely. He was a monster at Fenway and very good on the road. He went to Anaheim, a cookie cutter, pedestrian ballpark and he was just very good everywhere. His swing was tailor made for Fenway. He would have had a career, like Todd Helton's in Colorado, that was improved by home cooking, but with numbers that would have been undeniable.

Lynn said that running on the hard, sun-baked outfield surface in Anaheim messed up his back. Note: that all happened before Disney helped the Angels significantly upgrade the Big A.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Billy Hatcher

Billy Hatcher was treated like a World Series hero after he stole home in an August game.

 

[Max Power]

The exact opposite of this was Jose Canseco. I remembered him as being useless with the Red Sox, but he was still a great hitter when he was on the field. He had OPS+ marks of 137 and 146 in 1995 and 1996.

 

[8slim]

I remember John Henry Johnson starting a few games in 1984 and just blowing people away with a bunch of strikeouts. I was disappointed when he disappeared the following season, but looking at his stats he just gave up too many hits, walks, and home runs to be a reliable contributor.

Fun fact: My father bought JHJ's house in Attleboro in the early 90s.
Less fun fact: JHJ apparently fell on hard financial times because the house was in pretty rough shape and it was merely a very typical colonial to begin with,

I might get crap for this, but Marty Barrett wasn't nearly as good as I thought as a kid. Sure, he kicked ass in the '86 playoffs, and in my eyes he was the "quintessential number two hitter". But he only had two seasons at the plate that could even be considered mediocre, and his numbers should have been better with Boggs on base ahead of him so often. His defense numbers were meh. He did lead baseball in sacrifices for three straight years, so that's......something??

Great pull. Barrett was my favorite player as a kid, and while I knew he wasn't great, I believed he was very good.

He was not. Average at best.

 

[changer591]

I remember Bob Zupcic being way better than he really was. Those early 90s Red Sox teams were...kind of sad.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

The exact opposite of this was Jose Canseco. I remembered him as being useless with the Red Sox, but he was still a great hitter when he was on the field. He had OPS+ marks of 137 and 146 in 1995 and 1996.

You are probably just remembering the 95 playoffs vs the Indians.

 

[ookami7m]

I remember being very excited about Steve Avery coming over to shore up the rotation.
I look now and wonder what I was thinking.

 

[Coachster]

Carlos Quintana. Dude was our starting 1st baseman for two years, right about at replacement level the whole time. Somebody saw something in him, right?

Andre Dawson. The guy was a stud, right? I thought he had a couple more years left. Nope.

And my 1994 binkie, Wes Chamberlain. I thought the guy was good.

 

[fiskful of dollars]

I remember being very excited about Steve Avery coming over to shore up the rotation.
I look now and wonder what I was thinking.

Yeah, he was cooked. Still a useful pinch runner though. That's my clearest memory of Avery in a Sox uni.

Mine are Aaron Sele -thought his curveball was just gonna wreck hitters for a decade and...Casey Fossum. He was gonna be Mark Fidrych w/ a better healthier career. As usual I was wrong.

 

[fiskful of dollars]

NM

 

[Animale]

I loved watching Frank Castillo's (RIP) curveball in my early Sox fandom days and always figured he must be awesome since he just made batters look silly. Of course, everything else wasn't quite as awesome but I didn't realize it at the time. Had a 107 ERA+ in 2001 and 90 ERA+ in 2002, so just like his overall career just a tad below average starter (95 ERA+). Not the superstar I thought at the time - although he at least got a ring in 2004 for his 1 IP!

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

I focus on the legitimately promising 2003 and never remember that Casey Fossum was awful the next year and ended up with negative career WAR.

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

The late Vaughn Eshelman also got me because I was not statistically advanced as a tween and the man was 15 - 9, but absolutely everything other than that Win loss record is pretty epically terrible.