Messi to PSG
- Thread starter dirtynine
- Start date
This is worth its own thread.
(I copied the post rather than moving it, as I assume Barca fans will want to discuss the implications for the club.)
(I copied the post rather than moving it, as I assume Barca fans will want to discuss the implications for the club.)
The reaction is predictably reasonable and measured on El Chiringuito.
View: https://twitter.com/ElChiringuitoEN/status/1423425543211524102
View: https://twitter.com/theMadridZone/status/1423437692847730694
Meanwhile, over at Camp Nou....
View: https://twitter.com/DavidValdearen1/status/1298713372930617346
View: https://twitter.com/ElChiringuitoEN/status/1423425543211524102
View: https://twitter.com/theMadridZone/status/1423437692847730694
Meanwhile, over at Camp Nou....
View: https://twitter.com/DavidValdearen1/status/1298713372930617346
Especially since the team needs more than one player to be fully competitive again.
Apparently, Messi has reached out to Poch. They report Al-Khaleifi is leading the negotiations and unsurprisingly he’s going to tell Ligue 1 that they should let PSG run roughshod over FFP because it will help the entire league.
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Ray Hudson leaves BeIN on Monday, Messi leaves Barca on Friday. I’m suspicious. I expect a Messi-Zlatan team-up in Miami (managed by Hudson) to be announced any minute.
Seriously though, at $85m/yr how many clubs can even entertain the idea? PSG, Man City possibly… maybe a couple Saudi clubs?
Seriously though, at $85m/yr how many clubs can even entertain the idea? PSG, Man City possibly… maybe a couple Saudi clubs?
Where's this $85M number coming from? Last year's salary??
Messi arrived in Barcelona ready to sign a 5-year contract with 30% of his previous salary. The club informed Messi that he can't get registered, and the reason why is the La Liga PE deal. That offer is horrendous on its own terms and even if they accepted, I think the required allocation of revenues mostly towards capital improvements (not wages or debt) is a real problem too (like even if Messi was able to get registered, would Barca be able to register Memphis, Aguero, Emerson, etc.). Messi and the entire global audience was blindsided obviously.
My guess is Barca's been trying to fight La Liga/Tebas on this deal for awhile now and thought they'd eventually cave (why Laporta kept telling the press 'keep waiting' every day), but the league hasn't budged and Barca is showing their cards in one last effort to convince their fellow clubs and the league that the deal sucks, and the league should loosen their imposed restrictions (something apparently other major leagues have done). The League also miscalculated and assumed that Barca would cave and accept the deal--thus allowing Messi to get registered. IOW, this is a game of chicken between Barca and La Liga with Messi as the proxy.
It seems like Real Madrid is with Barca on this because the term of the CVC deal is for 11% of league revenues for 50 YEARS(!!). Unless you're going to make up a new astronomical number, giving out revenue that far out is asinine. Although I did read something that made it seem like Flo is against the CVC but in favor of keeping the league restrictions in place because they've behaved well relative to Barca and haven't done fuck all in transfer biz this summer other than nabbing Alaba on a free.
No idea what the dynamic is with the other clubs.
None of his teammates have posted any goodbyes. No one else knew about this before today. Laporta has a press conference scheduled tomorrow--he'll lay down an ultimatum, maybe show a crack in the door leaving the opportunity for the league to reverse course.
I mean, look at this Tweet:
Messi arrived in Barcelona ready to sign a 5-year contract with 30% of his previous salary. The club informed Messi that he can't get registered, and the reason why is the La Liga PE deal. That offer is horrendous on its own terms and even if they accepted, I think the required allocation of revenues mostly towards capital improvements (not wages or debt) is a real problem too (like even if Messi was able to get registered, would Barca be able to register Memphis, Aguero, Emerson, etc.). Messi and the entire global audience was blindsided obviously.
My guess is Barca's been trying to fight La Liga/Tebas on this deal for awhile now and thought they'd eventually cave (why Laporta kept telling the press 'keep waiting' every day), but the league hasn't budged and Barca is showing their cards in one last effort to convince their fellow clubs and the league that the deal sucks, and the league should loosen their imposed restrictions (something apparently other major leagues have done). The League also miscalculated and assumed that Barca would cave and accept the deal--thus allowing Messi to get registered. IOW, this is a game of chicken between Barca and La Liga with Messi as the proxy.
It seems like Real Madrid is with Barca on this because the term of the CVC deal is for 11% of league revenues for 50 YEARS(!!). Unless you're going to make up a new astronomical number, giving out revenue that far out is asinine. Although I did read something that made it seem like Flo is against the CVC but in favor of keeping the league restrictions in place because they've behaved well relative to Barca and haven't done fuck all in transfer biz this summer other than nabbing Alaba on a free.
No idea what the dynamic is with the other clubs.
None of his teammates have posted any goodbyes. No one else knew about this before today. Laporta has a press conference scheduled tomorrow--he'll lay down an ultimatum, maybe show a crack in the door leaving the opportunity for the league to reverse course.
I mean, look at this Tweet:
View: https://twitter.com/ActualiteBarca/status/1423403151701463045
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Thanks for the insight Zoso. It does feel like a dance. I'm no Barca fan but it would be sad to see declining Messi play in another shirt. That said, I hate the idea of propping up the hegemony at the expense of the so-called lesser clubs.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/soccer.nbcsports.com/2021/07/17/report-messi-barcelona-agree-to-new-5-year-deal-with-massive-pay-cut/amp/
I pulled the $85m from here. It claims last year’s salary was $168.5m/yr.
I pulled the $85m from here. It claims last year’s salary was $168.5m/yr.
50 YEARS!!!!!!
When Chicago leased its parking meters to an Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund for 75 years just to grab $1.15b upfront, everyone knew it was a shit deal. This is a close second without even knowing the details other than a 10% stake in a new La Liga media company. Wow.
Some quotes from the Laporta presser:
️ Joan Laporta: “if we make this operation with la Liga, we'll receive cash and we'd have 50% more salary mass.”
️ Joan Laporta: “however, that doesn't make the situation better, it doesn't fix it. Then we'd have to address a series of contract that we can't break unilaterally because it's risky. Given the club's situation, with great sadness, we have to make this decision.”
️ Joan Laporta: “we can't just keep prolonging the agony, we have the Gamper match this Sunday and we're playing Real Sociedad on the 15th and for Leo, we didn't have a margin, a limit date was talked about but we thought it'd all be resolved by the end of July.”
️ Joan Laporta: “I think it's best to make this decision now, which is advanced by 2 years...”
Q: When did you know that this was going to happen? When did you tell Messi's father?
️ Joan Laporta: “2 days ago. I reached the conclusion that we had to say enough and that we can do it and yesterday we had our last conversations with Leo's father. The negotiations were intense”
️ Joan Laporta: “we can't say that we didn't know about fair play, we didn't know about salary limit, we thought we'd get more flexibility but it was extremely difficult because of the inheritance...”
Q: If the Messi contract would've set the salary mass at 110%, what is the situation now without Messi?
️ Joan Laporta: “everyone is working, now we have a little bit more margin to see if a solution can be found. We're at the limit even without Leo, we don't have margin ...” [ruh roh]
️ Joan Laporta: “as I said, the ratio is 4:1, that every €25m that we bring in, we have to release €100m, that's without Leo, that's why the agreement with Leo was so difficult to fit in...”
️ Joan Laporta: “we found a solution that was thanks to meetings and phone calls everyday, we've been talking to La Liga and we thought that they were gonna accept our proposal for this contract, but if you analysed it, it couldn't happen...” [ball's in your court Tebas]
️ Joan Laporta: “For it to be a reality, we had to accept the agreement that La Liga had reached with the sale of 10% of the TV rights... So anyway, our decision is that we can't put the club at risk.”
Q: I'd like to know what the % of salary mass without Messi is now..? What did La Liga ask that made the deal impossible?
️ Joan Laporta: “i can't say the % right now, we have to recalculate it... the salary mass is at 110% but we're over it even without the contract of Messi.”
️ Joan Laporta: “La Liga asks us to abide by the rules, of course they want Leo Messi to stay in the league's but it's also true that there are clubs that want the rules to be abided by. They can't make an exception even if it means Leo is out of La Liga.” [Read: I'm just saying this so I don't get fined.]
️ Joan Laporta: “we were over the allowed salary limit, that's as simple as it it. We need to move on.”
Source - @infosfcb twitter thread
13:13 CET - CVC rules out entering La Liga without the support of the big clubs, according to the Spanish business press. @ActualiteBarca
[I imagine this changes things significantly. Without the influx of cash, a lot of clubs are going to be in trouble. Have to think this announcement helps Barca's negotiation position.]
[/QUOTE]
Edit: Sorry for the formatting nightmare. Can't figure out how to fix it.
Q: The transfer window ends on 31st, can the situation with players like coutinho, Umtiti, Griezmann, Dembélé be addressed? Are we trying to put pressure on La Liga?
️ Joan Laporta: “if we make this operation with la Liga, we'll receive cash and we'd have 50% more salary mass.”
️ Joan Laporta: “however, that doesn't make the situation better, it doesn't fix it. Then we'd have to address a series of contract that we can't break unilaterally because it's risky. Given the club's situation, with great sadness, we have to make this decision.”
️ Joan Laporta: “we can't just keep prolonging the agony, we have the Gamper match this Sunday and we're playing Real Sociedad on the 15th and for Leo, we didn't have a margin, a limit date was talked about but we thought it'd all be resolved by the end of July.”
️ Joan Laporta: “I think it's best to make this decision now, which is advanced by 2 years...”
Q: When did you know that this was going to happen? When did you tell Messi's father?
️ Joan Laporta: “2 days ago. I reached the conclusion that we had to say enough and that we can do it and yesterday we had our last conversations with Leo's father. The negotiations were intense”
️ Joan Laporta: “we can't say that we didn't know about fair play, we didn't know about salary limit, we thought we'd get more flexibility but it was extremely difficult because of the inheritance...”
Q: If the Messi contract would've set the salary mass at 110%, what is the situation now without Messi?
️ Joan Laporta: “everyone is working, now we have a little bit more margin to see if a solution can be found. We're at the limit even without Leo, we don't have margin ...” [ruh roh]
️ Joan Laporta: “as I said, the ratio is 4:1, that every €25m that we bring in, we have to release €100m, that's without Leo, that's why the agreement with Leo was so difficult to fit in...”
️ Joan Laporta: “we found a solution that was thanks to meetings and phone calls everyday, we've been talking to La Liga and we thought that they were gonna accept our proposal for this contract, but if you analysed it, it couldn't happen...” [ball's in your court Tebas]
️ Joan Laporta: “For it to be a reality, we had to accept the agreement that La Liga had reached with the sale of 10% of the TV rights... So anyway, our decision is that we can't put the club at risk.”
Q: I'd like to know what the % of salary mass without Messi is now..? What did La Liga ask that made the deal impossible?
️ Joan Laporta: “i can't say the % right now, we have to recalculate it... the salary mass is at 110% but we're over it even without the contract of Messi.”
️ Joan Laporta: “La Liga asks us to abide by the rules, of course they want Leo Messi to stay in the league's but it's also true that there are clubs that want the rules to be abided by. They can't make an exception even if it means Leo is out of La Liga.” [Read: I'm just saying this so I don't get fined.]
️ Joan Laporta: “we were over the allowed salary limit, that's as simple as it it. We need to move on.”
Source - @infosfcb twitter thread
13:13 CET - CVC rules out entering La Liga without the support of the big clubs, according to the Spanish business press. @ActualiteBarca
[I imagine this changes things significantly. Without the influx of cash, a lot of clubs are going to be in trouble. Have to think this announcement helps Barca's negotiation position.]
[/QUOTE]
Edit: Sorry for the formatting nightmare. Can't figure out how to fix it.
There is a ton of confusing stuff going on so maybe I'm off base on some of this, but my understanding is the following:
La Liga's rules about salary make resigning Messi virtually impossible, at least without a series of other transactions that are either very difficult to pull off (selling lots of high salaried players nobody wants) or just extremely undesirable for the club (selling the prize jewel young players for huge fees).
Barcelona didn't take either of those paths above (for understandable reasons in the end) but gambled that a series of Deus Ex Machinae might save them, first the ESL, then Tebas relaxing the rules, and possibly a CVC deal on favorable terms. To some degree, this might have also been a PR move: They knew that this might not work but even if it failed it would allow them to move on from Messi while claiming to have done everything possible and to place the blame on La Liga for it happening.
Tebas refused to relax the rules and then negotiated the deal with CVC in a way that could potentially allow Messi to be registered if Barca agreed, but which was clearly undesirable for Barca and Real in the bigger picture. So no Deus Ex Machina has appeared and now the only way forward is to let Messi walk and then probably adopt a few additional cost cutting measures on top of that in order to get under the salary limit.
Beyond Barcelona, it is astounding that the GOAT is a free agent, he is still the best player in the world, and yet it seems like a Parisian sportwashing enterprise owned by a brutal dictatorship is the only club that will be in for him. They'll probably give him some kind of stupid contract like Neymar got that makes him a global ambassador for Qatar 2022. The financial model of football is completely broken.
La Liga's rules about salary make resigning Messi virtually impossible, at least without a series of other transactions that are either very difficult to pull off (selling lots of high salaried players nobody wants) or just extremely undesirable for the club (selling the prize jewel young players for huge fees).
Barcelona didn't take either of those paths above (for understandable reasons in the end) but gambled that a series of Deus Ex Machinae might save them, first the ESL, then Tebas relaxing the rules, and possibly a CVC deal on favorable terms. To some degree, this might have also been a PR move: They knew that this might not work but even if it failed it would allow them to move on from Messi while claiming to have done everything possible and to place the blame on La Liga for it happening.
Tebas refused to relax the rules and then negotiated the deal with CVC in a way that could potentially allow Messi to be registered if Barca agreed, but which was clearly undesirable for Barca and Real in the bigger picture. So no Deus Ex Machina has appeared and now the only way forward is to let Messi walk and then probably adopt a few additional cost cutting measures on top of that in order to get under the salary limit.
Beyond Barcelona, it is astounding that the GOAT is a free agent, he is still the best player in the world, and yet it seems like a Parisian sportwashing enterprise owned by a brutal dictatorship is the only club that will be in for him. They'll probably give him some kind of stupid contract like Neymar got that makes him a global ambassador for Qatar 2022. The financial model of football is completely broken.
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Thanks. Regarding the bolded though, it seems like the CVC deal La Liga negotiated is just plain bad (again, 50 EFFING YEARS!). So, the requirement to use funds for infrastructure may be intended to hit Barca/Real harder than the rest, but it's a shit deal for the league on its own terms.
I think your first paragraph is what has me keeping out a small sliver of hope. If La Liga reverses course and basically allows for some funny accounting (e.g. paying Messi's salary for 2 seasons over 5 years and spreading out the hit), then there's a small chance he can re-sign.
This is a good recap. Seems like Barca played chicken assuming someone would blink.
You can see why Real would be pretty opposed to the CVC deal. In the last few years, they’ve made the hard choices and let Ronaldo, Ramos, and Varane go and have sold off multiple young guys like Hakimi, Brahim Diaz, and Reguilon to balance their financials.
I’m sure they have no desire to give up future revenue at the expense of bailing Barcelona out of the hole they’ve dug for themselves.
I agree with Zoso that the CVC deal just seems really bad in general. Giving up a big chunk of revenue for 50 years because you're in a tough short term position due to the pandemic seems pretty insane. I don't quite understand why, but I've seen many people also claim that agreeing to this deal would close the door on Barca and Real eventually forming/joining an ESL, and if true that's another very problematic part of it from both their perspectives.
Real is definitely in a much better position than Barca financially but I bet they're looking at the future and still thinking that an ESL is the only way that they're going to compete financially in the long run with the state-owned sportwashing clubs or, perhaps to a lesser degree, English clubs like United and Chelsea that are benefitting from the massive TV deals and the increasing dominance of the Premier League.
I'm not 100% on this but I think you're conflating two issues--the CVC deal and La Liga FFP enforcement rules. Barca and Real (and at least Bilbao as well) are against the CVC deal because it's shite. However, Real are not in favor of relaxing FFP rules because they've been behaving as if La Liga isn't going to bend and if the league changes course, the likeliest outcome benefits Barca due to being able to register their summer transfers and potentially re-sign Messi.
Although the more I think about it, I think Laporta may have used yesterday's announcement to once and for all say goodbye to Messi and begin the true rebuild of the club. He said it himself--even without Messi, the club's wage bill is at 90% of income. I'm not sure if that includes Memphis, Aguero, and Emerson, but regardless that's not a sustainable position to be in. The rebuild should've started 2 seasons ago, but Barto was busy spending like a drunken sailor on aging talent.
As an aside, I wonder how Messi truly feels about Barto. I mean, Barto set the club back decades and is generally a bad guy and shady dude, but he also gladly forked over $50M a year to Leo and paid all of his buddies handsomely too.
So Barca made the smart decision of letting the GOAT go in his mid 30s rather than giving up guys like Pedri & Dest in order to get someone to take the Cutinho & Griezman's contracts? All after waiting three weeks to see if they could win a game of chicken with La Liga leadership?
Also, does this mean guys like Aguero & Depay are about to be back on the market?
Also, does this mean guys like Aguero & Depay are about to be back on the market?
Honest question, would you want this to happen?
I mean funny accounting happens with every club, but to what end should this be allowed?
Laporta also said that he came into the job thinking they would lose 200m euro in 2020-21 but an audit has revealed that the true loss will be close to 500m euro. That is in just one fiscal year!
I can't even begin to guess how that happened but it definitely seems like the funny accounting needs to end at Barcelona and, from what I can tell, Laporta is actually serious about that.
I can't even begin to guess how that happened but it definitely seems like the funny accounting needs to end at Barcelona and, from what I can tell, Laporta is actually serious about that.
Not sure if this is sarcastic or not, but I think Barca thought they had a real chance to have their cake and eat it too. IOW, Liga would eventually cave and while the books would be bad this year, they'd have Messi and the new transfers in the fold.
It depends. Like I said to Gunfighter above, I think Laporta was trying to thread the needle of keeping Messi, registering the new guys, and treading water for another season waiting for next summer's window and a rebound in sale prices. That said, I'm still not sure why the club isn't looking to loan out some of Grizi, Dembele, and other high wage players, even if at a loss to reduce wage spend for at least this season.
If the funny accounting only permitted the club to register Messi and the new guys at the cost of selling Pedri, FDJ, Fati, and other young players with value (even if packaged with the flock of albatross contracts), then the answer is probably no.
It's a definite possibility that Laporta & Co. are trying to shove as much shit into the 20-21 FY to take their lumps all at once while they can legitimately point to the previous Board. This also supports my fear that Laporta is a bit relieved by all of this, since even paying Messi 30% of his previous wages creates additional obligations. Of course, Messi at that rate is beneficial from a footballing perspective and it's the albatross contracts (Grizi, Dembele, Coutinho, etc.) that are the real problem.
It still is absolutely mystifying to me that Bartomeu was looking at solving many of their problems when Messi sent his burofax last year and Barca worked so hard to keep him only to lose him on a free (if this isn’t a bluff which it almost assuredly is). It is bad enough to have created such a mess but when a get out of jail free card came up he didn’t even take it. Barca would probably still be in trouble if they had transferred him but would already be back on a path to recovery. Instead they’re trying to threaten players to terminate contracts and may need to terminate contracts they just signed
Apologies to Zoso, for who I know this whole thing is painful, but this is a real circus. Tebas is now on Twitter lashing out at Laporta, basically claiming that they had a deal on CVC and that it would have allowed Messi to stay but that Barca backed out at the last minute. This tweet is kind of incoherent but he seems to be suggesting that Super League machinations are behind it all.
View: https://twitter.com/Tebasjavier/status/1423654550339268615
View: https://twitter.com/Tebasjavier/status/1423654550339268615
Honestly, it's not that painful. It's taken about 30 years, but I finally have sports properly contextualized in my life. They still mean more to me than most, but I'm better about missing games, not following ALL the news, and not letting stuff like this affect me as much as I used to.
That's not newsworthy to me BTW--it's just proof that this was all a game of chicken and negotiation. And the 50-year term is definitely about the ESL. Tebas' problem is that in trying to protect the league with that term, it becomes a terrible deal. At a minimum the CVC payment to the league should also be indexed to revenues instead of a finite amount determined at the outset of the deal.
To add, players and former players are now sending out goodbye messages to Messi on social media. I think he's gone.
Bouhafsi is fairly reliable for Ligue 1 news.
View: https://twitter.com/mohamedbouhafsi/status/1423723054153220099
View: https://twitter.com/mohamedbouhafsi/status/1423723054153220099
Not sure how it will work tactically since none of them play any defense, but Messi/Neymar/Mbappe is going to be quite the front 3.
at this point City might have to pay 200m for Kane if they want to try and keep up for that one.
That's hyperbole, but Levy's hand just got even better.
Ramos & Messi together in Paris, almost a romantic comedy where two old enemies fall in love...
Tactically, Verratti and Wijnaldum become the most important cogs in the machine with their defensive duties and distribution from the middle.
It feels to me like 3-4-3 would be the best system to protect them from having to do much on the defensive side. And they've already got Hakimi, probably the best RWB in the world.
------Neymar---Mbappe--Messi---------
???------Verratti-Wijnaldum--Hakimi
---Kimpembe--Ramos--Marquinhos
----------------Donnarumma-----------------
Okay...but didn't they know that? If not, why would they not?
The NBA has a cap and you don't see teams signing guys and not finding they can't afford it until later--they know down to the dollar what they can spend.
I have no idea what will happen but PSG just isn't operating like a normal club at this point. They're like a public relations vehicle and advertising partner for Qatar 2022, which itself is a cynical attempt by the Qatari regime to sportwash its reputation and attract a new wave of global investors, retirees, tourists, and business development partners to Qatar to help cushion their eventual move off fossil fuels.
So if Real offers 130m for Mbappe you'd think its a no-brainer rather than lose him on a free. But they actually might just keep him because even that kind of money is couch change in the big picture for the Qatari government. By some estimates they will end up spending over $100b on the World Cup, building stadiums, infrastructure, even an entire city.
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It’s my understanding that they were at something like 90+% of the cap even without Messi. Signing Messi was pretty much impossible without him either playing for pennies or them gutting their entire roster.
Oh just found this...which is from before they signed Donnarumma, Wijnaldum, Ramos, Hakimi, and Messi.
View: https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1422090842286723072
View: https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1422090842286723072
And PSG may actually feel like, with this line-up, it is the year the team can win the Champions League.
Barca may actually welcome this. Even with Messi’s departure they are still in a world of salary hell. I think they gambled The La Liga officials would cave in their financial demands and it simply didn’t happen.
If Aguero leaves … where to ? Juventus? Maybe Inter to replace the imminently departing Lukaku? Personally, I’d take him at Liverpool
So, did they think the league would just allow it? Was that the play?
I'm still struggling to understand how a league has a cap. How a team knows what that cap is. And how a team then signs someone for more than they have available.
The "cap" is based on a club's revenue/debt/etc. From what I gather, it's negotiable, so they may have thought La Liga would increase theirs if they could improve their financial situation. Or they might simply be trying to save face with the fanbase, attempting to show they did everything they could to keep him.
Barcelona is in serious financial trouble, the La Liga cap is not particularly restrictive. It is meant to prevent teams from going bankrupt. It would have been insane to sign Messi, even if they were allowed to.
I fear he’s a shadow of his former self after his case of COVID. I was shocked that he got that deal.
I wouldn’t take him. Sad.
PSG deal not official but being widely reported. Updated the thread title.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-transfers/story/4448455/lionel-messi-barcelona-farewell-news-conference-player-in-tears-as-he-says-goodbye
https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-transfers/story/4448455/lionel-messi-barcelona-farewell-news-conference-player-in-tears-as-he-says-goodbye