Messi to PSG

67YAZ

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This is very disrespectful to Spurs, who have offered Messi the chance to room with Romero on the road.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Wow the Revolution really blew this one. They could have signed Messi as a free agent, but they failed! Can't believe the Krafts were outbid by PSG. They're contending for the title, where's the urgency to upgrade the team?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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33-year-old Di Maria as a wing back seems...ambitious.

But otherwise that team is completely ridiculous and I don't think they'll have that much trouble gelling. It would be one thing if they had signed Pogba or some other lazy ball hogging midfielder but their midfield two is actually pretty well suited to do all the less glamorous support work for those attackers, the back three is really strong, and Hakimi is in his best position.

Messi and Hakimi alone is kind of unfair in terms of simply torturing teams down the right. Then you figure that they'll be combining with Mbappe and Neymar and getting supported from deep by Verrati and Gini...

I will say that while I find Poch to be a likeable guy who did a great job at Spurs, he is absolutely not the right manager for this team, which is full of massive egos, defensive liabilities, and which only really cares about a cup competition.
 

Kliq

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PSG's in a weird situation where the league means nothing to them, so all of their faith and hopes go into the CL, which is so much of a random variance that you really can't overwhelm other strong teams with incredible talent and there is so much chance and luck involved. Like, its great they should roll Ligue 1 and stop a Lille from winning the league, but we know they only care about the elusive UCL trophy.
 

coremiller

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Messi is a lot better than Steve Nash or Dwight Howard. For an NBA analogy, this is more like the Warriors signing Durant.
 

Kliq

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Neymar is also like, always hurt and will be 30 in February, I really don't know how much more he has left.
 

veritas

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It's fair to worry about Neymar's injuries, but when he's on the field he's still one of the best players in the world. This team is ridiculous.
 

Zososoxfan

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No way that's the starting lineup in any UCL match. Paredes should be a stapled on starter, and I can't see a way to start MNM and ADM in the same XI. All that said, this team will be insanely good and fun to watch.
 

SocrManiac

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I think Gini might be an undervalued piece of this puzzle. He brings veteran leadership and hard nosed experience to a side with a glass jaw. We've seen how this group behaves when things aren't going their way and it's pretty fucking ugly. You could argue that the addition of Messi makes it less likely they'll experience that type of adversity, but if Gini can rally them when they're cracking they'll be unbeatable.
 

Zososoxfan

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I think Gini might be an undervalued piece of this puzzle. He brings veteran leadership and hard nosed experience to a side with a glass jaw. We've seen how this group behaves when things aren't going their way and it's pretty fucking ugly. You could argue that the addition of Messi makes it less likely they'll experience that type of adversity, but if Gini can rally them when they're cracking they'll be unbeatable.
I thought they beat back that reputation a couple of seasons ago. Gini will definitely give them more mettle in the middle and make them tougher, but I think they have a pretty good mentality already. Kimpebe has really matured since Thiago left.
 

SocrManiac

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I thought they beat back that reputation a couple of seasons ago. Gini will definitely give them more mettle in the middle and make them tougher, but I think they have a pretty good mentality already. Kimpebe has really matured since Thiago left.
Wasn’t their CL exit last year pretty brutal? Red cards in both legs?
 

Zososoxfan

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Wasn’t their CL exit last year pretty brutal? Red cards in both legs?
Yes, but 2 seasons ago (the '19-'20 UCL) PSG went through Dortmund, Atalanta, and Leipzig and giving Bayern a helluva game in the Final. If memory serves, they had a handful of excellent opportunities in the first half hour, didn't convert, and ran out of steam.
 

Kliq

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I had no idea that Neymar is almost 30. I presumed he was like 26.
Yeah and he hasn't played a full-season since 2016-2017. His goal contributions per 90 numbers have held steady over the years, but he hasn't scored 20+ goals in six years, despite playing in a weak league where elite PSG players score 30+ goals with ease. He wouldn't be the first guy to be winding down his career in his late 90s. Ronaldo and Ronaldinho were done by 30.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think Gini might be an undervalued piece of this puzzle. He brings veteran leadership and hard nosed experience to a side with a glass jaw. We've seen how this group behaves when things aren't going their way and it's pretty fucking ugly. You could argue that the addition of Messi makes it less likely they'll experience that type of adversity, but if Gini can rally them when they're cracking they'll be unbeatable.
And Sergio Ramos, while clearly past his best, is one of the standout big match players of recent history.
 

67YAZ

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I thought they beat back that reputation a couple of seasons ago. Gini will definitely give them more mettle in the middle and make them tougher, but I think they have a pretty good mentality already. Kimpebe has really matured since Thiago left.
that front 3 isn’t going to do much defensive work or counter-press with the consistent intensity necessary for the biggest matches. A LOT is going to fall on Gini and Verratti.

With Liverpool, Gini annually rated among the top 10% of players across the Big 5 Leagues in both ball recoveries and ball retention. Verratti is much more creative and aggressive with his passing, so he’s never going to have the same retention numbers as Gini, but his ability to cover ground and win the ball back is slightly better.

These two guys - call them VW, the engine of the PSG squad - are going to have to be heat seeking counter attack disrupters and super efficient ball circulators behind the front 3 (front 5 when the fullback bomb up into the space left by in-cutting Neymar & Messi).

that attack formation (3-2-5) has become more common for the mega-clubs, but they also have well developed anti-counter measures. Klopp uses the counter-press to disrupt or channel counters to predictable spaces. Pep uses “tactical fouls” and pinched in fullbacks. Ole closes his eyes and prays for Fred or McTominay to do something great. We’ll see what Poch can conjure up.
 
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triniSox

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This PSG team should be fun with a super high ceiling and a very high floor as well. I think they are pretty balanced and I don't see many misfits or weaknesses with a ton of flexibility and depth. PSG must be over the moon happy
 

Titans Bastard

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that front 3 isn’t going to do much defensive work or counter-press with the consistent intensity necessary for the biggest matches. A LOT is going to fall on Gini and Verratti.
Count me skeptical that PSG will be able to run and gun to a CL title. This team has all the makings of a squad that will be fun at times but I’m just not sure you can get away with three guys who don’t play defense in the highest levels of the modern game, even with three as good as they are.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Both of the last two managers are flexible enough tacticians to try other things, but it is an interesting choice to hire a gegenpressing proponent followed by a Bielsa disciple and give them teams incapable of pressing.
 

Zososoxfan

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Count me skeptical that PSG will be able to run and gun to a CL title. This team has all the makings of a squad that will be fun at times but I’m just not sure you can get away with three guys who don’t play defense in the highest levels of the modern game, even with three as good as they are.
How do you compare this team to Barca's 2014-15 UCL-winning squad (i.e. SNM):

MATS
Alba-Pique-Masche-Alves
Rak-Busi-Iniesta
Messi-Suarez-Ney

Ney may have been doing slightly more tracking then, but I recall the front 3 staying high pretty much at all times. Rak was a friggin workhorse back then and Busi-Iniesta made possession a given. Alba and Alves are one of the best FB pairs of alltime.

I think Poch would do well to study Pep's Barca sides from 2008-2011, where Messi dropped into MF to connect with Xavi-Iniesta and progress the ball to Eto'o, Henry, Pedro, and Villa. With Ney and Mbappe, Messi can drop deeper and facilitate more, whereas at Barca over the past few years he had to try and stay high since there was no one else scoring enough. The beauty of playing with a more mature Neymar this time around is that Neymar can also drop deep and be the facilitator. So PSG should have a variety of ways of picking apart a defense. Moreover, If circumstances dictate, they can both drop into the MF and dominate possession (imagine a 3-4-3 but with Mbappe and the wingbacks up front and Messi, Ney, Verratti, and Gini forming the middle). I think that setup still has enough balance with the solid back 3 + Verratti and Gini.

But yeah, this team will not be able to press like that Barca squad.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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How do you compare this team to Barca's 2014-15 UCL-winning squad (i.e. SNM):

MATS
Alba-Pique-Masche-Alves
Rak-Busi-Iniesta
Messi-Suarez-Ney

Ney may have been doing slightly more tracking then, but I recall the front 3 staying high pretty much at all times.
I think this is an instructive comparison, not only because two of the players are the same but also because that team demonstrated a pretty simple truth in football: If your front three is fearsome enough, they don't really have to play much defense because nobody in their right mind is attacking you in numbers.

If I'm Poch, I'm fine with top opponents sending their fullbacks forward and even creating dangerous overloads at times on the flanks if it means I get Messi-Mbappe-Neymar 3 v 3 or 3 v 4 in transition numerous times a game.

This is why I think 3-4-3 is good for PSG. Load the box defensively with three CBs, wing backs doing their best on the flank, and two CMs in front. Then invite high quality opponents to attack you with as many players as they dare. Cut out crosses and play the outball quickly to Messi or Neymar with Mbappe running ahead of them.

The team will never be very good at pressing high with this group and that is a bit of a disadvantage but maybe an overexaggerated one. Man City has quietly become a team that doesn't press very often. Real Madrid was never a pressing team and they won the CL four times.
 

veritas

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Count me skeptical that PSG will be able to run and gun to a CL title. This team has all the makings of a squad that will be fun at times but I’m just not sure you can get away with three guys who don’t play defense in the highest levels of the modern game, even with three as good as they are.
I wonder if their front 3 is good enough to drastically change how good teams play against them with possession. Will teams be brave enough to get players forward? Is it feasible for PSG play with a low block of 7?

One thing that is really interesting is that this team is absolutely impossible to be pressed, it would be suicide for anyone to try. It also seems crazy to sit back and give the front 3 a lot of the ball.

I think Poch would do well to study Pep's Barca sides from 2008-2011, where Messi dropped into MF to connect with Xavi-Iniesta and progress the ball to Eto'o, Henry, Pedro, and Villa. With Ney and Mbappe, Messi can drop deeper and facilitate more, whereas at Barca over the past few years he had to try and stay high since there was no one else scoring enough.
The stats don't really support this at all. His midfield activity has been steadily increasing for years, probably out of necessity given Barca's midfield decline. He led the world in both passes and carries into the final third. If anything, I think having someone like Neymar (and Veratti, and Hakimi) to do a lot of that midfield ball progression will let Messi be more of a forward for PSG.
 

Zososoxfan

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I wonder if their front 3 is good enough to drastically change how good teams play against them with possession. Will teams be brave enough to get players forward? Is it feasible for PSG play with a low block of 7?

One thing that is really interesting is that this team is absolutely impossible to be pressed, it would be suicide for anyone to try. It also seems crazy to sit back and give the front 3 a lot of the ball.



The stats don't really support this at all. His midfield activity has been steadily increasing for years, probably out of necessity given Barca's midfield decline. He led the world in both passes and carries into the final third. If anything, I think having someone like Neymar (and Veratti, and Hakimi) to do a lot of that midfield ball progression will let Messi be more of a forward for PSG.
I explained that poorly--Messi TRIED to stay high, but as you said he couldn't. Messi for the last 3-4 seasons has had to be the facilitator AND finisher for Barca. I do think Messi and Ney will both be very fluid and drop in/stay high as needed--not to mention combine in "high slot" (i.e. between the lines in the attacking third, but not necessarily near the penalty area). Ultimately, you may be correct that Neymar ends up dropping deep and leaving Messi up higher, but I would expect it to work the other way since Neymar is more mobile and would be in a better position to take advantage of space. OTOH, there's no better finisher in the world than Lio, so it's not like he's going to venture out too far from goal. In sum, I could see them playing fairly parallel to each other (i.e. similar roles, but when one drops into MF the other stays high) on opposite sides of the pitch.