McAdam: Red Sox owners have met with Xander Bogaerts more than once in recent weeks to kickstart contract negotiations.

ElcaballitoMVP

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Yeah pretty rare

Yount won an MVP in CF
Biggio (better than Jeter) went C, OF, 2b. Crazy order of positions.
Hanley Ramirez tried LF and decided the best way to play a position where you have to run further was to gain 50lb
Tha Yankees had a slap-hitting SS who refused to move to the OF sabotaging his teams' chance in a Kobesque fit of entitled pique.
Gary Sheffield, Ian Desmond, Tatis Jr. for a short time, Ben Zobrist played everywhere but started as a SS. There have been a few.
 

joe dokes

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… and let’s be honest, in Fenway he’s going to play LF.

Have there been that many conversions from SS to OF? It seems like an aging SS mostly stays on the IF.
A bit different, and only because it's an early baseball memory. Mickey Stanley, the Tigers' Gold-Glove winning CF for 131 games in 1968, moved to SS for the World Series. His 1st MLB games at SS were in the last week of the '68 season.

Mickey Stanley – Society for American Baseball Research (sabr.org)

Everyone has their proverbial fifteen minutes of fame. For Mickey Stanley they came during two weeks in the fall of 1968 when he was cast under the intense spotlight of the baseball world. The shift of a career outfielder to the unfamiliar position of shortstop during the 1968 World Series has been called one of the boldest managerial moves in the history of the game. Most observers were skeptical of the move. In his memoir Tuned to Baseball, Ernie Harwell declared, “At the time I thought it was a bad move. I checked about 25 so-called experts on the eve of the Series and they agreed with me.…But it worked.”
 

OCD SS

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Yount always comes up, but overall my point is that it’s not a long list. It seems like we should also sort by players who were good defensive SS’s as a proxy for having the athleticism to make the switch. With X I’m a bit more concerned about how he’d hold up with the extra running… sure that’s mitigated in Fenway but overall I think the actions are different enough that it’s a whole new ballgame to make the adjustment after 30.
 

DJnVa

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Biggio (better than Jeter) went C, OF, 2b. Crazy order of positions.
He did go from C to OF, but he didn't stay in OF long at first:

1990: less than 400 innings
1991: back to C
1992: 2B full time

He didn't shift back to OF til 2003 when he was 37. Then, after 2 seasons, went back to 2B.

That's nuts.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Do we want to pay X $30M to play LF in a few years, when he’s presumably not the same player he is now (if he was, he probably isn’t moving positions). Paying a guy as if he’s a marquee SS but playing him in LF doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. If we are already talking about that now, then resigning him sounds very likely to be a bad idea. Granted, so may the alternative ways to spend the money, which is an important consideration.
 

Daniel_Son

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I'm also weary of assuming that a player can make the switch from IF to OF easily, especially at Fenway. Playing the wall is a skill that takes more than just general athleticism to master. We've seen a lot of guys who can't handle it (Hanley and Swihart most recently).

And besides, given that it's the "easiest" of the three positions to play, wouldn't the team be better served signing an elite offensive player who has some outfield experience, rather than moving our aging shortstop there in a few years? It's the one outfield position that we don't need to necessarily prioritize defense and can "max out" for offensive ability.
 

reggiecleveland

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He did go from C to OF, but he didn't stay in OF long at first:

1990: less than 400 innings
1991: back to C
1992: 2B full time

He didn't shift back to OF til 2003 when he was 37. Then, after 2 seasons, went back to 2B.

That's nuts.
Again better guy than Jetes.
"Craig we need you to switch positions.."
"Sure skip"
"I didn't say to which position>"
"Doesn't matter."

"Derek, I know your knee is sore, and we have this kid that can actually go to his left, I mean is pretty good at ss, so wondering gif inlate innings if w, you know...am D, come on don't phone the owner...look sorry...okay leadoff SS, ...sorry"
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I'm also weary of assuming that a player can make the switch from IF to OF easily, especially at Fenway. Playing the wall is a skill that takes more than just general athleticism to master. We've seen a lot of guys who can't handle it (Hanley and Swihart most recently).

And besides, given that it's the "easiest" of the three positions to play, wouldn't the team be better served signing an elite offensive player who has some outfield experience, rather than moving our aging shortstop there in a few years? It's the one outfield position that we don't need to necessarily prioritize defense and can "max out" for offensive ability.
LF is just an option. It's not where he would play anytime soon. 3B is another option if they moved on from Devers or eventually move him to DH. All we're saying is there are options down the line. He's not necessarily stuck at SS for the next 6 or so years.

Is it a sure-fire thing that he can make the transition to LF? No. But you don't have to worry about moving him until Mayer is ready and even then, LF isn't the only option.
 

YTF

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Do we want to pay X $30M to play LF in a few years, when he’s presumably not the same player he is now (if he was, he probably isn’t moving positions). Paying a guy as if he’s a marquee SS but playing him in LF doesn’t make a ton of sense to me. If we are already talking about that now, then resigning him sounds very likely to be a bad idea. Granted, so may the alternative ways to spend the money, which is an important consideration.
I'm not sure that I want to pay him $30M to play SS for the few seasons leading up to the seasons that you're concerned about.
 

Jimbodandy

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LF is just an option. It's not where he would play anytime soon. 3B is another option if they moved on from Devers or eventually move him to DH. All we're saying is there are options down the line. He's not necessarily stuck at SS for the next 6 or so years.

Is it a sure-fire thing that he can make the transition to LF? No. But you don't have to worry about moving him until Mayer is ready and even then, LF isn't the only option.
Exactly.

I'm all in with the folks advocating here for not locking up the DH position with a guy who can only DH also. That's even more positional flexibility with potentially Devers and Casas locked in at corner IF and maybe Xander being pushed by a "you have to promote this kid, he's too good" Mayer. Like, it would be a pretty damn good scenario to have so many studs that we need a thinking cap to find a place to put our 130 OPS+ former SS.
 
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Again better guy than Jetes.
"Craig we need you to switch positions.."
"Sure skip"
"I didn't say to which position>"
"Doesn't matter."

"Derek, I know your knee is sore, and we have this kid that can actually go to his left, I mean is pretty good at ss, so wondering gif inlate innings if w, you know...am D, come on don't phone the owner...look sorry...okay leadoff SS, ...sorry"
Minor quibble: I've never heard that the Yankees ever asked Jeter to consider a position change. I'm certain they didn't when A-Rod was acquired.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Minor quibble: I've never heard that the Yankees ever asked Jeter to consider a position change. I'm certain they didn't when A-Rod was acquired.
They didn't even bother to ask, Jeter made it very clear that the answer was a resounding no.

Which was good for us, but bad for the Yanks. So thanks, Captain!
 

Max Power

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Xander is pretty tall and could move to first base eventually like Ernie Banks. But I still don't think his defense is going to rapidly decline any time soon. A 7-year $175 million contract makes him a Red Sox for the rest of his career and wouldn't be much of a burden in the last couple of years when he needs to be moved down the defensive spectrum. It will be into a new CBA, but the luxury tax threshold should be well over $250 million by then.
 

reggiecleveland

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Minor quibble: I've never heard that the Yankees ever asked Jeter to consider a position change. I'm certain they didn't when A-Rod was acquired.
https://www.theonion.com/derek-jeter-rejects-move-to-outfield-by-reminding-yanke-1819572329
56732

Late in his career there was talk in NY press as mounting statistical evidence and by that time obvious eyeball test that he was a bad defensive shortstop of moving him. What is telling abut these stories is it was always executives, not managers saying Jeter would never move from SS.

Just for fun
https://elitesportsny.com/2017/05/13/remember-derek-jeter-lets-not-forget-horrid-defense/
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Xander is 30. He's going to be looking for a lengthy contract to take him into his late 30s, or a short one where he can cash in one more time before his decline (probably 3 years with a player option for a 4th). I'd consider the short deal if the money's right. No interest in a long term deal.

Otherwise, splurge on Devers, sign an average stop gap for 2 years until Mayer is ready, and spend on the farm/young talent until the Mayer window opens. Devers will still only be 27. Mayer/Devers focus.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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He’s going to ask for a 7 year deal with an opt out after 3. Why would he settle for a three year deal? He doesn’t have to choose between a short term or long term; he should be able to get both. Now, he could overplay his hand and end up like Story if he waits too long but I can’t imagine he’s going to opt out of his real to sign a short term deal with the Sox.
 

dhappy42

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Xander is pretty tall and could move to first base eventually like Ernie Banks. But I still don't think his defense is going to rapidly decline any time soon. A 7-year $175 million contract makes him a Red Sox for the rest of his career …
Bogaerts’ AAV is gong to be higher than $25 million. Probably higher than $30 million.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Bogaerts is opting out of a 3-year deal. If he were willing to sign a new 3-year deal, presumably with a much bigger AAV, I would think that it would already be done. They've already committed to him for those three years. An extra 25-30ish million isn't going to scare them off.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Maybe. Top 5 contracts for 3b:

Machado (signed at age 26): 10 years, 300m (30.0m/yr)
Arenado (signed at age 27): 8 years, 260m (32.5m/yr)
Rendon (signed at age 29): 7 years, 245m (35.0m/yr)
Riley (signed at age 25): 10 years, 212m (21.2m/yr)
Ramirez (signed at age 29: 7 years, 141m (20.1m/yr)

You're probably right that Devers would require a 9 or 10 year deal at $32ish million per year.
How about 8/$240 for Devers, front loaded (variety of ways, but they could just pay him as a FA in his Arb3 year) and with an opt out after year 3? If we extended X, and Devers opted out, we could slide X to 3rd and have Mayer at SS.


Edit/add: The other guys on that list were better all around players than Raffy; 6-7+ bWAR guys. So it’s certainly reasonable to offer him something just below that level.
 
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