McAdam: Lavarnway on the trade block

mabrowndog

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No surprise at all, given the projected AAA logjam and his lack of forward progress.
 
CSNNE.com
 
 
Ryan Lavarnway is being shopped around by the Red Sox, according to an industry source.
     
"They're making it known he's available,'' a veteran National League talent evaluator said of the Red Sox.
     
The Red Sox have veterans A.J. Pierzynski and David Ross to handle the catching duties. Meanwhile, in Pawtucket, the Sox expect that Christian Vazquez and Daniel Butler to handle the majority of playing time behind the plate in Pawtucket.
     
Lavarnway was introduced to first base this spring as a means of making him more versatile and getting him a chance to get at-bats in a role other than catching. If Lavarnway goes to Pawtucket, it's likely most of his playing time will be at first and DH. 
     
Once considered the Red Sox catcher of the future, Lavarnway, 26, has seen his career stall. Over parts of three seasons in the big leagues, he's put together a slash line of .208/.258/.327 in 88 games.
 
In the final weeks of the 2011 season, it seemed that Lavarnway would soon overtake Jarrod Saltalamacchia as the Sox' No. 1 catcher. With Saltalamacchia tiring down the stretch, Lavarnway caught the final two games of the team's ill-fated 2011 playoff push, hitting cleanup and homering in the second to last game of the season. But he stumbled the following year and in the last year has been overtaken on the organizational depth chart by Vazquez and Blake Swihart, two catchers with higher upside.
     
Vazquez is more accomplished defensively with a plus arm, while Swihart, who's still developing as a catcher, has more potential as a hitter.
     
"I think most teams now see him as a No. 3 catcher,'' said an American League evaluator of Lavarnway "He could play a little first and DH, and be available if you needed someone behind the plate.''
     
The problem, however, as the Red Sox have discovered, is that Lavanrway needs regular playing time to hit, having struggled at the plate with occasional playing time.
 

 
 

joe dokes

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Harry Hooper said:
Hatteberg v. 2.0?
 
Possibly, but by the time Hatteberg left, he had already established himself in the majors as a pretty capable offensive player, especially his on-base skills. Lavarnway not there yet at the major league level.  But chicken-and-egg . . . . if Houston gives him 500 ABs, who knows.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Harry Hooper said:
Hatteberg v. 2.0?
 
Hatteberg played 369 MLB games behind the plate and had put up a .267/.357/.414 slash line in 454 total games before he was reborn in Oakland as a first baseman.  Lavarnway has a long way to go and a lot to prove before he falls into the same category.
 

Van Everyman

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Baseball is a funny sport. In September 2011, Lavarnway looked pretty close to can't miss. His power was impressive and his defensive skills were improving. Two seasons later, he's Lars Anderson.

Maybe he and Daniel Bard can start a band.
 

saintnick912

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Van Everyman said:
Baseball is a funny sport. In September 2011, Lavarnway looked pretty close to can't miss. His power was impressive and his defensive skills were improving. Two seasons later, he's Lars Anderson.

Maybe he and Daniel Bard can start a band.
 
The only argument was who would be better between Lavarnway and Jesus Montero.  TINSTAACP?
 

mabrowndog

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Based on the bomb Lavarnway just hit over everything in LF, the Sox should be able to deal him straight-up for Jurickson Profar.
 

chrisfont9

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mabrowndog said:
Based on the bomb Lavarnway just hit over everything in LF, the Sox should be able to deal him straight-up for Jurickson Profar.
Profar? Where would we play him?
 
[I keed, I keed.]
 
I personally like to think that the biggest difference between the Sox and Yankees right now is our ability/willingness to give prospects at-bats and see for sure what they have. But Lavarnway has just under 300 PAs, and while he hasn't done enough with them, his being dealt would suggest that we're not *that* different from the Yankees w.r.t moving up prospects, or not as different as I'd prefer. We basically blocked him by signing Napoli and Pierczynski. Maybe the lesson is, prospects will get a chance with the Sox as long as they have a defined defensive role and some semblance of an opening. If Lavarnway were a better receiver, I suspect Pierczynski would be elsewhere.
 

joe dokes

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chrisfont9 said:
That would pretty much assure he's the next Hatteberg, if not more.
 
Its also worth remembering that the first Hatteberg was done as a catcher due to elbow surgery when he left Boston.
 
I
personally like to think that the biggest difference between the Sox and Yankees right now is our ability/willingness to give prospects at-bats and see for sure what they have. But Lavarnway has just under 300 PAs, and while he hasn't done enough with them, his being dealt would suggest that we're not *that* different from the Yankees w.r.t moving up prospects, or not as different as I'd prefer. We basically blocked him by signing Napoli and Pierczynski.
It wasn't just who they got to go ahead of him; it was their evaluation fo the people behind him too.
 
Maybe the lesson is, prospects will get a chance with the Sox as long as they have a defined defensive role and some semblance of an opening. If Lavarnway were a better receiver, I suspect Pierczynski would be elsewhere
 
 
I think the lesson is, as Satchel Paige might have said, "Don't regress; especially if there's someone gaining on you."
 
If the Sox didn't have 2 other (what they believe to be) top-flight prospects behind him, this might turn out differently.  But as I think we can infer from last year, when they ran Salt. into the ground, the organization thought Lavarnway should be ready to handle some major league backup duties. The team determined that he wasn't in fact ready.  he got passed; he's expendable. It happens.
 

Plympton91

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chrisfont9 said:
Profar? Where would we play him?
 
[I keed, I keed.]
 
I personally like to think that the biggest difference between the Sox and Yankees right now is our ability/willingness to give prospects at-bats and see for sure what they have. But Lavarnway has just under 300 PAs, and while he hasn't done enough with them, his being dealt would suggest that we're not *that* different from the Yankees w.r.t moving up prospects, or not as different as I'd prefer. We basically blocked him by signing Napoli and Pierczynski. Maybe the lesson is, prospects will get a chance with the Sox as long as they have a defined defensive role and some semblance of an opening. If Lavarnway were a better receiver, I suspect Pierczynski would be elsewhere.
 
I wonder where the disconnect is with respect to Lavarnway's defense between the AAA managers and coaches that voted him the top defensive catcher in the IL, and Farrell, who seems to have had no confidence in his ability to be even a regular backup catcher.  I hope that Farrell isn't being blinded the impressions he had of Lavarnway when he was last in the organization in 2010 and not updating based on the limited sample size he's seen in person since.   Lavarnway hit pretty well in the majors last year, despite the power outage, so it seems the problem is with his defense.  Or maybe the advanced metrics the Red Sox use suggest to them that Lavarnway is only useful against a certain relatively small subset of pitchers and they picked the spots well.
 
I suspect that Lavarnway will have far more value going forward than Pierczynski, but it is what it is.  I wish him well.
 

chrisfont9

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It wasn't just who they got to go ahead of him; it was their evaluation fo the people behind him too.
 
 
 
True enough, insofar as he was a candidate at catcher. But if his future is DH (Papi can't play forever) or 1B then I was sort of hoping he'd hang around long enough to establish himself at one of those spots when they come open. For all our prospect gold, I don't see much in the way of 1B candidates.
 

Adrian's Dome

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I don't want to move Lavarnway at the moment for no reason other than Placeholder and Blue Wolf's combined ages + injury concerns. I'm all on the Vasquez bandwagon, but he needs more time. Is the team confident enough in Butler as the first guy to call should either of them go down?
 

Rasputin

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Is there a team in baseball that would think he wasn't available?
 
 
Adrian's Dome said:
I don't want to move Lavarnway at the moment for no reason other than Placeholder and Blue Wolf's combined ages + injury concerns. I'm all on the Vasquez bandwagon, but he needs more time. Is the team confident enough in Butler as the first guy to call should either of them go down?
 
It looks that way.
 

Mike F

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Does any one else think the fact that today Butler subbed for the DH and RL caught the last couple of innings is showcasing?
Perhaps we should start the Ryansdac to measure his daily daily trade value.
 

Jack Rabbit Slim

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Is he really taking time from anyone at AAA if he starts at 1B? Why not give him full time ABs without having to worry about his defense and see if he can get his power stroke back? Seems like the biggest lack in the prospect pool is a power hitting firstbaseman.
 

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Jack Rabbit Slim said:
Is he really taking time from anyone at AAA if he starts at 1B? Why not give him full time ABs without having to worry about his defense and see if he can get his power stroke back? Seems like the biggest lack in the prospect pool is a power hitting firstbaseman.
 
SoxProspects.com projects Brandon Snyder to be the regular 1B at Pawtucket with Lavarnway as the regular DH.  Makes a lot of sense.
 

ALiveH

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can we trade him for a 4th round pick, or is trading for future draft picks not allowed in MLB?
 

mabrowndog

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ALiveH said:
can we trade him for a 4th round pick, or is trading for future draft picks not allowed in MLB?
 
Under the new CBA, the only draft picks that can be traded are the additional competitive balance picks that are awarded to small-market and/or low-revenue teams through a lottery. In this year's draft, there are 12 picks that were allotted among 14 possible teams, with 6 each after the 1st & 2nd rounds. As things currently stand, those picks will be #s 35, 37-41, and 70-75 (#36 is a compensatory pick awarded to the Marlins for failing to sign 2013 pick Matt Krook; this pick cannot be traded).
 
In last year's draft, the first 6 competitive balance picks came with an average slot money assignment of $1.528 million (give or take $100k at the high & low ends), while the second batch of picks averaged $783,500 (give or take ~$24k). I doubt any team holding any of these picks would view present-day Ryan Lavarnway as a worthwhile swap.
 
It's worth noting that any team can trade slot money from their international signing bonus pools.
 

The Boomer

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Pilgrim said:
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/17/pirates-catcher-chris-stewart-needs-knee-surgery/
 
Pirates Just lost Chris Stewart, their backup, to knee surgery.  They're one of the rumored destinations for Mike Carp, maybe an expanded trade?
 
Wonder how many guys we would have to stuff into a trade proposal videogame-style to get one of their interesting prospects back.
 
The Pirates are the perfect match for the Sox.  They are trying to unload Tabata who is owed $12 million for the next 3 years.  He is a good OF who can play all 3 positions well defensively and has both speed and pop.  He has a great arm in the outfield.  The Pirates are loaded with outfielders.  Their desire to add top prospect Polanco to McCutcheon and Marte could give them potentially the best overall OF in the majors.  Behind Polanco, they are loaded with bluechip OF prospects.
 
I see 2 reasonable scenarios:
 
1. Trade Carp and Lavarnway for one of their surplus of OF prospects trailing Polanco from among Meadows, Bell or Ramirez that the Pirates would spare.
 
2. Trade Carp, Lavarnway and the expiring contract of Gomes for Tabata.  This is a basketball style trade where the salaries roughly match and the Sox keep Tabata and the last 2 years of his contract that the Pirates want to unload.
 
The second alternative makes a lot of sense for both teams.  Gomes is more what the young contending Pirates need on their bench than Tabata.  Righty Tabata better balances the Sox roster.  Nava would use his firstbase glove more to spell Napoli (instead of Carp) while the ability of Tabata and Bradley to defensively play all 3 OF positions would give the Sox outfield the kind of deep depth that they covet.  Sizemore and Victorino will require plenty of days off to maximize their productivity and avoid aggravating their chronic injuries.  Bradley and Tabata would be 4th and 5th outfielders who would play a lot in rotation with their OF elders.  The Tabata salary slot is what the Sox are willing to play for a good platoon type outfielder.  The Pirates will be happy to unload his salary while bolstering their own roster with a better suited OF backup/pinchhitter (Gomes) and upgrading at 1B and backup catcher with Carp and Lavarnway.
 

KillerBs

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Ya gotta figure the Pirates and Sox are talking about some deal revolving around Carp and Tabata. I continue to doubt very much that the Sox will deal Gomes. The whole quesiton with Tabata is whether he would be a positive defensively in CF and RF at Fenway.  If so, he is a nice fit with Sizemore or Bradley, whoever ends up in CFer most of the time.
 
I think you can be confident that Austin Meadows is not being traded any time soon The other two Pirate prospects you mention seem  -- Josh Bell and  Harold Raimrez -- are interesting.
 
The trade Gomes concept perhaps makes sense in the abstract, but simply is not going to happen.
 

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I've watched a number of Pirate games with Tabata in the outfield. I'm not sure the Sox gain much by adding Tabata. The Pirates have given Tabata numerous chances over the years to establish himself in the Pirate outfield and he has failed. Trading Carp for Tabata, seems like a classic "grass is greener" though I understand they bring different skill sets to the team, I don't think folks are going to love Tabata when they get a chance to see him up close and frequently.
 
Now if we could get Meadows, that is much more interesting. I just don't think the Pirates will part with him. 
 

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Clemente38 said:
Now if we could get Meadows, that is much more interesting. I just don't think the Pirates will part with him. 
 
I suppose he could be a PTBNL, but he was drafted last June.  When is the last time an organization moved their first round pick (a top ten pick no less), a year after drafting him?  Never mind for a guy like Carp...
 
Meadows isn't happening.
 

Drek717

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Rudy Pemberton said:
Am I missing something? The Sox, right now, have too many OF's. Trading Carp for Tabata does nothing to solve that. 
They only have too many if they're unwilling to send Bradley back to AAA, which I doubt is a big hang up for them if Sizemore is looking healthy.
 
Mike Carp isn't really an outfielder, but he isn't winning the 1B or DH job out of camp, we all know that.  So his role on this team is to basically wait for one of Ortiz/Napoli/Nava to get injured at which point he can provide a strong bat at one of the three positions where he can do the least damage defensively.  He has value to the club but it's a somewhat marginalized value.
 
Tabata, if he can legitimately play Fenway's RF at least, gives the Sox the 5th OF they need to commit to a true LF platoon of Nava/Gomes while Sizemore starts in CF, Victorino in right, and Tabata backs them both up thanks to Vic's ability to play CF.  That covers all the OF bases defensively without having to put Bradley on the ML club yet while they explore what they have in Sizemore.
 
That said, I don't see trading both Carp and Lavarnway.  One of them needs to be the backup answer to Mike Napoli or David Ortiz getting hurt.  I'm assuming that the team shopping Lavarnway is either 1. them doing him a solid as they no longer have a window for him to catch given that Vazquez ran him down last year, and Lavarnway doesn't want to give up on catching to become a 1B/#3 C type already or 2. they don't like how he looks as a 1B and are looking to move him as a C with 1B potential before the league basically labels him a DH.  
 
I'm dubious they'll get much in the way of offers for him.  Scott Hatteberg had hit at the ML level and was available for free when the A's picked him up.  Lavarnway hasn't hit at the ML level and the Sox aren't going to give him away.  My bet is that it's scenario #1, the Sox doing Lavarnway a solid by seeing if anyone else is willing to let him catch.  No one will if it costs anything and as a result Lavarnway will accept the transition to 1B and be the #3 catcher for both Boston and Pawtucket in a three way rotation between three spots (1B, DH, and C) for him, Vazquez, and Butler.
 

Manramsclan

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luckysox said:
Man, the Rangers are getting hit early and often with injuries.
To that end, Dave Cameron tweeted something amusing to the effect of "Apparently Ian Kinsler has a very effective set of Voodoo dolls." 
 
The Rangers seem like a contender who would give up assets to fill these holes at the ML level. They also need a second baseman.
 
What does Lavarnaway and Brock Holt get the Sox? A useful relief pitcher? 3B depth?
 

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Drek717 said:
They only have too many if they're unwilling to send Bradley back to AAA, which I doubt is a big hang up for them if Sizemore is looking healthy.
 
Mike Carp isn't really an outfielder, but he isn't winning the 1B or DH job out of camp, we all know that.  So his role on this team is to basically wait for one of Ortiz/Napoli/Nava to get injured at which point he can provide a strong bat at one of the three positions where he can do the least damage defensively.  He has value to the club but it's a somewhat marginalized value.
 
Tabata, if he can legitimately play Fenway's RF at least, gives the Sox the 5th OF they need to commit to a true LF platoon of Nava/Gomes while Sizemore starts in CF, Victorino in right, and Tabata backs them both up thanks to Vic's ability to play CF.  That covers all the OF bases defensively without having to put Bradley on the ML club yet while they explore what they have in Sizemore.
 
That said, I don't see trading both Carp and Lavarnway.  One of them needs to be the backup answer to Mike Napoli or David Ortiz getting hurt.  I'm assuming that the team shopping Lavarnway is either 1. them doing him a solid as they no longer have a window for him to catch given that Vazquez ran him down last year, and Lavarnway doesn't want to give up on catching to become a 1B/#3 C type already or 2. they don't like how he looks as a 1B and are looking to move him as a C with 1B potential before the league basically labels him a DH.  
 
I'm dubious they'll get much in the way of offers for him.  Scott Hatteberg had hit at the ML level and was available for free when the A's picked him up.  Lavarnway hasn't hit at the ML level and the Sox aren't going to give him away.  My bet is that it's scenario #1, the Sox doing Lavarnway a solid by seeing if anyone else is willing to let him catch.  No one will if it costs anything and as a result Lavarnway will accept the transition to 1B and be the #3 catcher for both Boston and Pawtucket in a three way rotation between three spots (1B, DH, and C) for him, Vazquez, and Butler.
 
I think Lavarnway is lower than Nava on the depth chart there, and while we won't like whatever lineup presents itself should Papi get hurt, we wouldn't even remotely consider keeping Lavarnway as a depth hedge attached to a potential Carp departure.
 
I think Ryan can land on his feet, but as was mentioned by how hard Salty was ridden last summer, they don't have much current faith in his catching abilities, and he isn't an impact bat enough to take any real ABs at 1B or DH.
 
I don't really want to call him a 4A player yet by any stretch, but I think there is a chance he could be a 4A- player in Boston and a 4A+ player elsewhere given our roster composition, old and young catching, and high level expectations.  His three year trend line in triple-A is discouraging, and I don't think he is a near term fit with the bat at 1B/DH, and I don't think he is a near term fit with the glove behind the plate based on the coaching staff's faith in him.  That doesn't make him hopeless or useless, but it does make him very expendable if there is a return for a team that either thinks more highly of him, or has more use for a skillset we might not.
 

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So as not to start a new thread, this fits here as well as any place.  With Wilson Ramos suffering yet another injury (opening day broken bone in his hand) and only Jose Lobaton in reserve for the Nationals, perhaps they can find a taker for Ryan Lavarnway - perhaps for a spare outfielder who they can slot to AAA in case a future need arises.
 

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The Boomer said:
So as not to start a new thread, this fits here as well as any place.  With Wilson Ramos suffering yet another injury (opening day broken bone in his hand) and only Jose Lobaton in reserve for the Nationals, perhaps they can find a taker for Ryan Lavarnway - perhaps for a spare outfielder who they can slot to AAA in case a future need arises.
 
Potentially not a lot to see here:
 
 
Nationals catcher Wilson Ramos left Washington's 9-7 Opening Day victory over the Mets on Monday in the seventh inning with a left hand injury. X-rays after the game came back negative, and the catcher will see a specialist on Tuesday.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/was/nationals-catcher-wilson-ramos-injures-hand-x-rays-negative?ymd=20140331&content_id=70526270&vkey=news_was
 

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The Boomer said:
So as not to start a new thread, this fits here as well as any place.  With Wilson Ramos suffering yet another injury (opening day broken bone in his hand) and only Jose Lobaton in reserve for the Nationals, perhaps they can find a taker for Ryan Lavarnway - perhaps for a spare outfielder who they can slot to AAA in case a future need arises.
Where do you get that he broke his hand? All reports are that the MRI was negative?
 

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   The Boomer says:

Posted Today, 05:20 PM

So as not to start a new thread, this fits here as well as any place.  With Wilson Ramos suffering yet another injury (opening day broken bone in his hand) and only Jose Lobaton in reserve for the Nationals, perhaps they can find a taker for Ryan Lavarnway - perhaps for a spare outfielder who they can slot to AAA in case a future need arises.


 
 

richgedman'sghost

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I have 3 questions: 1)Where do you get that he broke his hand? All reports are that the X-ray  was negative? 2)Why don't you like starting new threads? 3)This thread was like halfway down the page. Did you not find this thread when you were looking? It seems like your question could fit in here very nicely.