Mazzulla: Interim or Permanent...and When?

DGreenwood

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Despite high preseason expectations for the Celtics, I think the narrative for COTY for CJM will be built around how easily things could have gone to shit after the chaos the team experienced in August/September. Coming in to the role at the last second, calming things down, and getting the team focused deserves a lot of credit.
 

chilidawg

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Tatum was on a heater last night and if CJM had played him for 45mins (the entire 2nd half) I wouldn't have blamed him

JT was pulled at 6:39 of Q1 up 11 (23-12) and then the C's lead evaporated quickly
CJM brought him back at 3:35 (3-mins later) with C's down 27-25.
JT played all of Q2

JB scored 26pts but dealt with fouls, TOs & only played 28 mins. JT picked up the slack

Credit to Miami, they made it a game (rock fight), but Tatum was too much
That 134 points is now a rockfight is an amazing testament to where we are offensively.
 

moondog80

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Despite high preseason expectations for the Celtics, I think the narrative for COTY for CJM will be built around how easily things could have gone to shit after the chaos the team experienced in August/September. Coming in to the role at the last second, calming things down, and getting the team focused deserves a lot of credit.
I know Utah has dropped off, but crazy that the C's had two early COTY candidates as assistants a few months ago, while their head guy was a candidate last year.
 

lovegtm

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Nice Weiss article partly about Mazzulla's approach to spacing:

https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/
Joe Mazzulla’s core values have been taking shape over the first month-plus of the season, with the topic of spacing coming up on a nightly basis.

But he doesn’t talk about common terms in the traditional sense. Spacing was a concept that moved to the forefront of the public lexicon during the five-out revolution in the early 2010s, as bigs started to become 3-point shooters and teams looked to open up the paint as much as possible.

Then going four out, one in came back in vogue as bigs started rolling more or lurking in the dunker spot behind the hoop. Boston has embraced this since Al Horford — a pick-and-pop specialist — initially departed and Rob Williams ascended. Daniel Theis mastered the Gortat, rolling across the paint and sealing off the defender(s) so his pick-and-roll partner could waltz all the way to the rim. The Celtics break that out every once in a while, but they’re now using the big a little differently to disrupt the paint.

When the Celtics swing the ball to the corners and attack, the center is getting in the way on purpose. It’s a recognition of the growth of players like Grant Williams, who this year has gone from just being able to attack a closeout to thriving against them.

Last season, Grant Williams would up fake, dribble toward the midrange and then pass it to a shooter on the elbow. From there, he would fill a spot on the perimeter and be ready to launch. But even as he improves his handle enough to have a legit shot at going to the rim, players like Luke Kornet and Blake Griffin are standing right under the hoop.

It’s a sign Williams is turning into an actual wing, because the scheme is betting he can get deep into the defense and still make rim reads.
How the gamble works is the big stands right under the net as Williams begins to drive, keeping his man in position to protect the rim. That means he would be open under the rim, so another defender has to help off a shooter to cover the big. Because the player closing out on Williams is going to be either trailing him or just out of the play into the corner, Williams has three defenders engaged at the rim and one open teammate somewhere on the perimeter. That can leave a lot of space against a hard closeout defense like Toronto’s.

...

So when Mazzulla talks about spacing, he doesn’t mean large swaths of hardwood to roam. He means precise alignment, even in cramped zones of the floor, to open up all these reads built into the system. Now that his rotation is almost entirely players who can put the ball on the floor and see all those reads, it’s working better than anyone else in the league.
Feels very soccer-ish (for lack of a better word): pulling defenders into cramped spaces in order to create more real estate to attack. The only team off the top of my head that really made this kind of spacing work was peak Warriors, who also had a lot of high-IQ offensive talent that had played together a lot.

This is in contrast to more traditional "chessboard" spacing, like Harden-ball or Luka-ball, where you spread out the floor and the superstar gets an advantage and then makes much more pre-learned reads against a more predictable set of responses.
 

lovegtm

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Jaylen is averaging 35.6 minutes now, Jayson 36.6 (only slightly above what he played the last 2 seasons).

Mazzulla hasn't changed his timeout usage much, and still doesn't use them to stop runs. However, the team seems to have learned how to figure things out in bad stretches.

If the plan was to stretch guys out early, bank some wins, build good habits, and then take the foot off the gas a bit.....it seems to be working pretty well?
 

bosockboy

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Jaylen is averaging 35.6 minutes now, Jayson 36.6 (only slightly above what he played the last 2 seasons).

Mazzulla hasn't changed his timeout usage much, and still doesn't use them to stop runs. However, the team seems to have learned how to figure things out in bad stretches.

If the plan was to stretch guys out early, bank some wins, build good habits, and then take the foot off the gas a bit.....it seems to be working pretty well?
I believe they are first in 4Q defense. Plan seems to be get a big lead, regulate defensive energy for 3 quarters then drop the hammer.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jaylen is averaging 35.6 minutes now, Jayson 36.6 (only slightly above what he played the last 2 seasons).

Mazzulla hasn't changed his timeout usage much, and still doesn't use them to stop runs. However, the team seems to have learned how to figure things out in bad stretches.

If the plan was to stretch guys out early, bank some wins, build good habits, and then take the foot off the gas a bit.....it seems to be working pretty well?
The crazy thing is that we are already taking our foot off the gas when it’s appropriate. Jaylen has already sat out 2 of the first 26 games on the back end of a B2B and Tatum sat one game. We know the Horford “back to back injury” and Brogdon’s minutes are at a career low. They each get about 30 mpg in the blowouts which allow us to comfortably play them 40 when a game is tight.
 

Devizier

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The crazy thing is that we are already taking our foot off the gas when it’s appropriate. Jaylen has already sat out 2 of the first 26 games on the back end of a B2B and Tatum sat one game. We know the Horford “back to back injury” and Brogdon’s minutes are at a career low. They each get about 30 mpg in the blowouts which allow us to comfortably play them 40 when a game is tight.
Yeah, biggest difference between this and the 08-09 Celtics that came out the gate blowing the doors off of everyone. Doc was running the big three out there with very little time off until it was forced on him/them.
 

joe dokes

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Nice Weiss article partly about Mazzulla's approach to spacing:

https://theathletic.com/3977378/2022/12/07/celtics-joe-mazzulla-system/

Feels very soccer-ish (for lack of a better word): pulling defenders into cramped spaces in order to create more real estate to attack. The only team off the top of my head that really made this kind of spacing work was peak Warriors, who also had a lot of high-IQ offensive talent that had played together a lot.

This is in contrast to more traditional "chessboard" spacing, like Harden-ball or Luka-ball, where you spread out the floor and the superstar gets an advantage and then makes much more pre-learned reads against a more predictable set of responses.
It reminded me of what Brickley talks about in hockey. No matter the size of the space, offensive players are looking for 3-man triangles against 2 defenders within that space.
 

The Mort Report

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Jaylen is averaging 35.6 minutes now, Jayson 36.6 (only slightly above what he played the last 2 seasons).

Mazzulla hasn't changed his timeout usage much, and still doesn't use them to stop runs. However, the team seems to have learned how to figure things out in bad stretches.

If the plan was to stretch guys out early, bank some wins, build good habits, and then take the foot off the gas a bit.....it seems to be working pretty well?
I'd imagine in the long run not taking timeouts when the other team makes a run will make them more resilient to smaller runs where we wouldn't expect a timeout. Getting reps in those situations can only be a good thing. I think it will stop them from pressing on mini runs in the postseason which can snowball against good competition
 

Eddie Jurak

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Regarding time outs, one small thing Mazzulla did a couple of games ago is worth a mention - he called one to set up a play in the closing seconds of the third quarter. It doesn't work, but if he is going to be the coach who calls fewer time outs than anyone else and routinely loses them at the three minute mark, then he ought to call end of quarter time outs to set plays up when that situation presents itself. I had noticed earlier in the year a game where the Celtics would have benefitted from that, and Mazzulla was sitting on 5 time outs, and he didn't call one. But the next time it came up he did call one, so he clearly recognizes the opportunity. (It's also true that sometimes coaches don;t want to call those late timeouts to set up a play, even in the 4th).
 

pjheff

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I'd imagine in the long run not taking timeouts when the other team makes a run will make them more resilient to smaller runs where we wouldn't expect a timeout. Getting reps in those situations can only be a good thing. I think it will stop them from pressing on mini runs in the postseason which can snowball against good competition
I also wouldn’t be surprised if playoff Mazzulla emerges with a different pattern of timeout usage.
 

chilidawg

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Interesting look at the C's coaching staff's off season:

THE CELTICS' TRANSFORMATION failed them during their six-game Finals loss to the Warriors -- Boston's offensive rating fell more than six points compared to the first three rounds of the playoffs -- as Finals MVP Stephen Curry snatched away a chance for the Celtics to raise banner No. 18. Those struggles ate at Joe Mazzulla all offseason. Revamping the offense was the main focus as he and the rest of the Celtics coaching staff prepared for this season -- even before he was elevated to interim head coach when Ime Udoka was suspended for the season for violating team rules.

"The one thing we looked at was: What were the best clutch offensive teams running?" Mazzulla told ESPN. "We just tried to find the best clutch offenses and what they did and kind of studied that." And, as Mazzulla spoke to various coaches about different ways Boston could improve its offense, those discussions often revealed similar principles: more spacing, more ball movement and more off-ball screening action.
"We have a really smart team and experienced team and they know we had to reinvent ourselves," Mazzulla said.
"Guys have done a great job buying into that. Now we're just learning about the different ways teams are going to guard us and how we can adjust to that."

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35196963/the-boston-celtics-turned-nba-finals-heartbreak-best-offense-league-history
 

djbayko

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I'd imagine in the long run not taking timeouts when the other team makes a run will make them more resilient to smaller runs where we wouldn't expect a timeout. Getting reps in those situations can only be a good thing. I think it will stop them from pressing on mini runs in the postseason which can snowball against good competition
You may be right, but I this practice of letting the team fight through struggles is a luxury which comes from having an incredibly deep, experienced team. Would not have been advisable last year, for example (and they were pretty damn good).
 

ragnarok725

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View: https://twitter.com/SouichiTerada/status/1602919281825415168

"Joe tells us all the time he's not going to save us. ... A lot of the time he tells us to figure it out, and he challenges us. Myself, JB, Smart, he challenged us that the way we've been playing, it's not going to cut it."
This is a quote from Tatum after last night's comeback against the Lakers.

It's good that Joe is challenging the team and that the team is responding. With such a young coach who came into the position the way he did, he could easily be cautious about doing so, and the players could easily respond negatively if they don't fully respect him. But this team needs to continue growing, and they won't get there without someone challenging them.
 

ragnarok725

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So apparently Mazzula, since 2019 through last year, kept notes on players on all teams across there league and someone found them on Quizlet. They read like flash cards for every player in the NBA and some of them come off as roasts.

They were taken down within about 20 minutes of the post hitting Reddit, but many of them were screen captured and saved in the Reddit thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zn3149

Just to give a sense, a few eastern conference all stars:
Giannis Antetokounmpo: DEFEND HIM AS A TEAM. LONG AND LOADED. LOOKING FOR LOBS AND BACKCUTS MORE. IN POST LIKES BASELINE FADEAWAY. LEFT HAND DRIVES TO SPIN RIGHT.

James Harden: LEFT HAND DRIVER. LIKES STEP BACK GOING RIGHT. SHOW HANDS ON DRIVES. MAKE SURE WE CONTEST LEFT TO LEFT.

Kyrie Irving: GREAT FINISHER IN TRANSITION. DEFEND WITH VERTICALITY. RIGHT HAND DRIVER. MAKE HIM UNCOMFORTABLE WITH HIGH PICK UP POINTS AND PRESSURE. MAKE HIM WORK FOR EVERYTHING.

Kevin Durant: HIGH PICK UP POINTS TO TAKE AWAY EARLY PULL UP 3'S. PIN DOWNS OUT OF RIGHT CORNER TO CATCH AND SHOOT. GETS RHTYHM OFF LEFT HAND PULL UPS. LIKES RIGHT SHOULDER IN POST AND BASELINE FADEWAYS.

Bradley Beal: hunts transition 3's. scores on left hand drives. stay down on fakes. aggressive off pin downs and dho's. must stay connected to the body. off the ball be ready to jump and swipe.

Joel Embiid: RUNS FOR EARLY POSTS. RUN PUNCH ACTIONS FOR HIM. MUST BE READY TO DIG. FACE UPS. ALERT TO SWEEP THROUGHS. SLIPS OUT OF LOW ANGLES. HIS PLAY IS RIP. WILL HANDLE THE BALL
Honestly I don't think anyone is going to be offended. But it's an interesting look into Joe's observations and work ethic.
 
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djbayko

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Meh. I don't think they read as roasts at all, just telling it like it is. In fact, outside of that Westbrook quote and a couple others, his notes tend to focus on player strengths and preferences rather than weaknesses.
 

ragnarok725

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Meh. I don't think they read as roasts at all, just telling it like it is. In fact, outside of that Westbrook quote and a couple others, his notes tend to focus on player strengths and preferences rather than weaknesses.
I agree. But MPJ "selfish player always looking to score for himself." and Russ "TERRIBLE 3 POINT SHOOTER" I think read that way. It's definitely more interesting than inflammatory though.
 

djbayko

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Sure, those are the two worst from what I've seen and everything else is tame. Either way, they're scouting reports not intended for outside eyes and happen to be true.
 
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Spelunker

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I agree. But MPJ "selfish player always looking to score for himself." and Russ "TERRIBLE 3 POINT SHOOTER" I think read that way. It's definitely more interesting than inflammatory though.
Oh no, that might piss off Russ and get him to shoot more 3s against us.

58960
 

Eddie Jurak

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So apparently Mazzula, since 2019 through last year, kept notes on players on all teams across there league and someone found them on Quizlet. They read like flash cards for every player in the NBA and some of them come off as roasts.

They were taken down within about 20 minutes of the post hitting Reddit, but many of them were screen captured and saved in the Reddit thread.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/zn3149

Just to give a sense, a few eastern conference all stars:

Honestly I don't think anyone is going to be offended. But it's an interesting look into Joe's observations and work ethic.
Are we certain of authenticity? Could they actually be notes from @HomeRunBaker or @reggiecleveland?
 

ragnarok725

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Are we certain of authenticity? Could they actually be notes from @HomeRunBaker or @reggiecleveland?
The account's name was Joseph_Mazzula with a picture of him and his family as avatar. The account was deleted 20 minutes after it was widely posted. It'd be a pretty elaborate prank with, as has been noted, very little red meat. It seems pretty reasonable to me that he had a security-by-obscurity account that he threw his notes in about every player and some quick hit team tendencies to keep organized.

Here's his (dated) take on tonight's opponent (Magic), although there's only a couple players left.
View: https://i.imgur.com/HcPQBgs.png
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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To be clear I'm the idiot who misspelled his name. The account was Joseph_Mazzulla.
Ah. Makes sense then and its an easy name to misspell. So this could be legit then and not something a bored kid put together in a finals review with TA.

Would love to see his updated notes on Westbrook.
 

Obscure Name

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The account's name was Joseph_Mazzula with a picture of him and his family as avatar. The account was deleted 20 minutes after it was widely posted. It'd be a pretty elaborate prank with, as has been noted, very little red meat. It seems pretty reasonable to me that he had a security-by-obscurity account that he threw his notes in about every player and some quick hit team tendencies to keep organized.

Here's his (dated) take on tonight's opponent (Magic), although there's only a couple players left.
View: https://i.imgur.com/HcPQBgs.png
His wife also deleted a tweet laughing at people who thought it was real so...
 

128

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The C's probably don't need to hurry to pull "interim" off Mazzulla's title. Let the season play out a little more.
 

benhogan

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more on Mazzulla's TO strategy in The Atheltic. Nice work by Jared Weiss

https://theathletic.com/4036568/2022/12/27/celtics-joe-mazzulla-mindset/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983


Mazzulla has often allowed the Celtics to play through runs. His tendency to avoid quick timeouts has drawn substantial local attention.

Williams said Mazzulla also has another timeout quirk.

“He calls a timeout, and sometimes he doesn’t even say any words,” Williams said. “He just calls that timeout, we sit there and we talk to one another. We do what we need to do.”

Williams believes the tactic shows how much Mazzulla trusts his players. Smart said Mazzulla wants the Celtics to understand what they need to do without an explanation from him. In those moments, Smart said the players will hash things out between themselves. They will go back and forth sharing ideas about how they need to respond. Then, according to Williams, Mazzulla will arrive in the huddle to ask if they talked it out.

“And it’s like, we talked it out,” Williams said. “And he tells us to go out there and keep it moving.”

Mazzulla’s timeout strategies don’t always work. During the loss Dec. 21 to Indiana, he waited until the Pacers went on a 16-0 run to use one. Even after the timeout, the Celtics gave up scores on six straight possessions. Smart still understands why Mazzulla uses the tactics and believes they work.

“It’s to figure it out,” Smart said. “If you guys can figure it out before I come and tell you what’s going on, then we’re doing our job. That just shows the growth of being able to be coachable, being able to understand self-awareness. When you’re able to do it, it hits a little different from hearing it from somebody else you’re always hearing it from. When you’re hearing it from somebody that’s sitting down, that’s in the game with you, that’s bleeding with you, that’s sweating with you, it hits a little bit different. And I think that’s what makes it work and efficient. Because he allows us to be humans. He allows us to figure it out on our own before he comes and helps. And he allows us to just see the game.”
 

HomeRunBaker

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I know Mazz is getting a lot of attention with this but others have been/are doing similar. Last night, Bickerstaff didn’t call a TO at the end of the 1H as the Nets closed on an 18-2 run. This 3-min stretch was likely the difference in a single possession game down the stretch. You pay in the short term with the hope that it will allow you to win long term. Does it though? It’s interesting as teams won’t be asked to really play through these spots in the playoffs.
 

Reverend

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more on Mazzulla's TO strategy in The Atheltic. Nice work by Jared Weiss

https://theathletic.com/4036568/2022/12/27/celtics-joe-mazzulla-mindset/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983


Mazzulla has often allowed the Celtics to play through runs. His tendency to avoid quick timeouts has drawn substantial local attention.

Williams said Mazzulla also has another timeout quirk.

“He calls a timeout, and sometimes he doesn’t even say any words,” Williams said. “He just calls that timeout, we sit there and we talk to one another. We do what we need to do.”

Williams believes the tactic shows how much Mazzulla trusts his players. Smart said Mazzulla wants the Celtics to understand what they need to do without an explanation from him. In those moments, Smart said the players will hash things out between themselves. They will go back and forth sharing ideas about how they need to respond. Then, according to Williams, Mazzulla will arrive in the huddle to ask if they talked it out.

“And it’s like, we talked it out,” Williams said. “And he tells us to go out there and keep it moving.”

Mazzulla’s timeout strategies don’t always work. During the loss Dec. 21 to Indiana, he waited until the Pacers went on a 16-0 run to use one. Even after the timeout, the Celtics gave up scores on six straight possessions. Smart still understands why Mazzulla uses the tactics and believes they work.

“It’s to figure it out,” Smart said. “If you guys can figure it out before I come and tell you what’s going on, then we’re doing our job. That just shows the growth of being able to be coachable, being able to understand self-awareness. When you’re able to do it, it hits a little different from hearing it from somebody else you’re always hearing it from. When you’re hearing it from somebody that’s sitting down, that’s in the game with you, that’s bleeding with you, that’s sweating with you, it hits a little bit different. And I think that’s what makes it work and efficient. Because he allows us to be humans. He allows us to figure it out on our own before he comes and helps. And he allows us to just see the game.”
This is… utterly fascinating. Holistic humanist philosophy in coaching. Of course:

I know Mazz is getting a lot of attention with this but others have been/are doing similar. Last night, Bickerstaff didn’t call a TO at the end of the 1H as the Nets closed on an 18-2 run. This 3-min stretch was likely the difference in a single possession game down the stretch. You pay in the short term with the hope that it will allow you to win long term. Does it though? It’s interesting as teams won’t be asked to really play through these spots in the playoffs.
Yeah, thing is, we’re looking at very small n samples without meaningful control groups. It would be really, really cool if this approach works—just for what it means about, like, humans and how human being works—but the ability to verify is obviously very limited.

Huh.