Mayfield to Carolina

Hendu for Kutch

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2006
6,647
Nashua, NH
I'm trying to think of ways that Cleveland could have screwed this up worse, but I'm struggling to come up with many. What a friggin' train wreck.
 

wibi

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,412
I've got to believe if Seattle wanted Baker they would have made a better offer than a 5th in 2024
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,495
New York City
Any time you can get a 5th rounder (two years from now) for a QB you might end up needing, you have to take that deal.
First round pick 4 years ago for a 5th rounder because the team gave up on him (because he was injured in 2021 and they just let him keep flailing instead of sitting him down) and then signed a serial sexual predator for one of the biggest guaranteed contracts in history.

Needless to say, the Browns are a joke and their last 4 months have been a textbook example of what not to do.
 
Jun 2, 2016
802
Hanover, PA
First overall pick 4 years ago for a 5th rounder because the team gave up on him (because he was injured in 2021 and they just let him keep flailing instead of sitting him down) and then signed a serial sexual predator for one of the biggest guaranteed contracts in history.

Needless to say, the Browns are a joke and their last 4 months have been a textbook example of what not to do.
FTFY. Cleveland!
 

EL Jeffe

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2006
1,166
NE has Carolina's 3rd round pick next year, so I was hoping Baker would go to Seattle instead. I doubt Baker moves the needle much for Carolina, but he's almost certainly a better winning option for them than Darnold or Corral.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
4,262
from the wilds of western ma
First round pick 4 years ago for a 5th rounder because the team gave up on him (because he was injured in 2021 and they just let him keep flailing instead of sitting him down) and then signed a serial sexual predator for one of the biggest guaranteed contracts in history.

Needless to say, the Browns are a joke and their last 4 months have been a textbook example of what not to do.
A clown show of epic proportions from the browns, no doubt. I’m of the opinion BM has hit his ceiling, and not sure how much of an upgrade over Darnold he is. Setting up a competition, I guess? But for a 5th, absolutely worth the shot. And Jesus, the Browns. Malpractice of the highest order, from the jump on this mess.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Staff member
Dope

JM3

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
1,811
Makes sense all the way around after the corner the Browns backed themselves into.
 

Jungleland

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2009
1,838
That's an absurdly great deal for Carolina. 5th round picks aren't worthless and it's completely possible Mayfield isn't good, but that's highway robbery for even a 25% chance the 2020 guy is the real version, in which case they'll be happy to pay the 4th.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,495
New York City
A clown show of epic proportions from the browns, no doubt. I’m of the opinion BM has hit his ceiling, and not sure how much of an upgrade over Darnold he is. Setting up a competition, I guess? But for a 5th, absolutely worth the shot. And Jesus, the Browns. Malpractice of the highest order, from the jump on this mess.
Mayfield has had two solid seasons and one bad one and one awful one that was marred by injury.(he literally couldn't throw the ball to any spots, so 2021 doesn't provide any context other than, "Don't start a QB who can't throw because he only has one shoulder.")

His rookie year, he had the most TDSs by a rookie in history. It has since been broken, but you don't get the TD rookie record by sucking. Baker has also had a ton of coaches and coordinators with no consistency whatsoever. He's been set up to suck. Sam Darnold has also been set up to suck but he's REALLY sucked.

Baker's first season with an actual good coach, he won a playoff game and came within inches(and a missed helmet to helmet) from beating the Chiefs. His second season with that coach, Baker couldn't throw after the 3rd week of the season.

Here's the thing about quarterbacks: Throwing is really important. Cam Newton nods. So I'm not sure if Baker has hit his ceiling. Maybe but we have absolutely no idea what his ceiling could be. He's never had a consistent system.

Getting him for a 5th rounder is an absolute steal. There is no downside to that.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
13,771
I'm trying to think of ways that Cleveland could have screwed this up worse, but I'm struggling to come up with many. What a friggin' train wreck.
I had definitely said that maybe Cleveland sort of knew what they were doing because Mayfield had no leverage and they could force him to play. OK, that was a stupid take...but I'm still smarter than the Browns.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
24,468
Just a friendly reminder that Greg Bedard picked the Browns to be better than the Patriots this year.
If their rapist plays they should be so that is a weird thing to bulletin board. Did any suspension come out yet? I have not seen an update
 

trekfan55

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 29, 2004
9,111
Panama
If you figure they can't do anything about the deal they already signed with Watson, could this arguably be a good move? If Watson sits for a year or close to it, tank and give him another weapon in the draft. On the other hand, it sounds like Baker was done with them anyways, so maybe they had no choice.
Wait, didn't they give up like 3 1st round picks for Watson?
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2001
11,762
The Yay Area
Seems like a good deal for Carolina. A conditional 2024 pick for a "probably not good but maybe ok" QB is a pretty inexpensive flier.

They're probably getting Rosen next to complete the trifecta of "Not Allen/Jackson 2018 first round QBs", yeah?
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
8,775
Needham, MA
If Watson isn’t suspended (or is only suspended for a couple of games) it absolutely isn’t a bad take.

It is the Browns so who knows, but from purely a football perspective gambling on Watson is probably a smart move. He’s not going to be banished from the league and he’s a young franchise QB, the hardest thing (and most valuable thing) to find in pro sports. From a PR perspective its a goddamn mess and I’d hate as a Browns fan to have to root for that guy. But people have short attention spans and also lots of (most) sports fans don’t really give a shit about this kind of stuff, so I bet it works out for them in the long run.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,495
New York City
If Watson isn’t suspended (or is only suspended for a couple of games) it absolutely isn’t a bad take.

It is the Browns so who knows, but from purely a football perspective gambling on Watson is probably a smart move. He’s not going to be banished from the league and he’s a young franchise QB, the hardest thing (and most valuable thing) to find in pro sports. From a PR perspective its a goddamn mess and I’d hate as a Browns fan to have to root for that guy. But people have short attention spans and also lots of (most) sports fans don’t really give a shit about this kind of stuff, so I bet it works out for them in the long run.
Watson at a minimum will be out 6 games, but I think it will be 8 or more. (and if it is 6-8, they will say Watson sat out 2021, too, and use that as "suspension" time)

If it's a couple of games, it would be a catastrophe.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
24,468
But people have short attention spans and also lots of (most) sports fans don’t really give a shit about this kind of stuff, so I bet it works out for them in the long run.
You’re probably right, but idk, man. A lot of these situations you can kind of tell yourself a story. It was a misunderstanding, the victim is lying …I’m not saying these are true but I can see how people can convince themselves in Ben R’s case or maybe they really believe Kobe didn’t do it. It’s pretty hard to believe that Watson is not a premeditated serial rapist. Like even if you think Kobe did what he was accused of (and if he did he should have gone to prison) that’s still a different scenario than making an appointment to rape someone. That’s a different level of monster.
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
8,775
Needham, MA
You’re probably right, but idk, man. A lot of these situations you can kind of tell yourself a story. It was a misunderstanding, the victim is lying …I’m not saying these are true but I can see how people can convince themselves in Ben R’s case or maybe they really believe Kobe didn’t do it. It’s pretty hard to believe that Watson is not a premeditated serial rapist. Like even if you think Kobe did what he was accused of (and if he did he should have gone to prison) that’s still a different scenario than making an appointment to rape someone. That’s a different level of monster.
Oh I agree 100% with all of this. He's a serial sexual predator, no question. There are plenty of ways to get a "massage" with extras from plenty of willing providers, for him the game was obviously forcing legit massage providers into situations they didn't want to be in, which makes him a piece of shit who probably belongs in jail, never mind on an NFL field. I am just saying I bet the gamble pays off for the Browns. It's a travesty and should have me questioning why I can't quit the sport.
 

Groovenstein

Member
SoSH Member
You’re probably right, but idk, man. A lot of these situations you can kind of tell yourself a story. It was a misunderstanding, the victim is lying …I’m not saying these are true but I can see how people can convince themselves in Ben R’s case or maybe they really believe Kobe didn’t do it. It’s pretty hard to believe that Watson is not a premeditated serial rapist. Like even if you think Kobe did what he was accused of (and if he did he should have gone to prison) that’s still a different scenario than making an appointment to rape someone. That’s a different level of monster.
Deshaun Watson: rape on demand and without apology
 

Ralphwiggum

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
8,775
Needham, MA
Watson at a minimum will be out 6 games, but I think it will be 8 or more. (and if it is 6-8, they will say Watson sat out 2021, too, and use that as "suspension" time)

If it's a couple of games, it would be a catastrophe.
I agree with this too, but if he sits for 8 games and the Pats don’t have a better record than the Browns in 2022 then it probably turns out that Mac isn’t that good and/or the Pats roster is a lot further away from being a contender than most Pats fans think.
 

CouchsideSteve

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2013
381
Norwalk, CT
I guess if you’re Carolina, you can posture that you’re just taking a flier to add more competition to the QB room. But we all know what this is — Mayfield, despite his flaws, is a lot better than Darnold.

Which makes the trade for Darnold last year all the more baffling. On top of giving Matt Rhule a 7 year contract. Seems like every move under Tepper can be described as trying to “just f*cking do something!”

In MoneyBall, I think Beane told Lewis something to the effect of “it can’t be a losing trade if you don’t give up anything of value.” By that principal, I guess CAR won this trade. But as the poster above cites from Warren Sharp, they’ve spent a wild amount of draft capital for such a mediocre QB — and roster — situation.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,495
New York City
I guess if you’re Carolina, you can posture that you’re just taking a flier to add more competition to the QB room. But we all know what this is — Mayfield, despite his flaws, is a lot better than Darnold.

Which makes the trade for Darnold last year all the more baffling. On top of giving Matt Rhule a 7 year contract. Seems like every move under Tepper can be described as trying to “just f*cking do something!”

In MoneyBall, I think Beane told Lewis something to the effect of “it can’t be a losing trade if you don’t give up anything of value.” By that principal, I guess CAR won this trade. But as the poster above cites from Warren Sharp, they’ve spent a wild amount of draft capital for such a mediocre QB — and roster — situation.
To be fair, just because they have done bad deals for QBs in the past (that Darnold deal really is something else) shouldn't stop a team from trying to do a good deal to fix it.
 

ShaneTrot

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2002
5,565
Overland Park, KS
To be fair, just because they have done bad deals for QBs in the past (that Darnold deal really is something else) shouldn't stop a team from trying to do a good deal to fix it.
I totally agree with you. You should shake every tree if you don't have a QB. I will be rooting for Mayfield, he gave the Browns everything he had. He played hurt last year. Besides Tampa, that is a sketchy division, he could get them to the playoffs.
 

JM3

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
1,811
The other cool thing about the deal for the Panthers is they'll probably eligible for a '24 comp pick for Baker if he does leave after the season.
 

DanoooME

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 16, 2008
18,229
Henderson, NV
I'm amazed the Browns got that much for him. I figured they'd get a 7th at best.

I'm happy Seattle didn't bother with him. He just wouldn't fit with Pete. And he's terrible. A lot of that may be being in the Browns org (and that wouldn't surprise me in the least), but my guess is he gets maybe half the starts because both Baker and Darnold will both suck.

I don't think there's any doubt the worst two QB situations in the NFL in 2022 are Carolina and Seattle. Even if Watson does get suspended, Brissett might be the best QB of the five on those three teams.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
6,255
I wonder if the Browns trade for Jimmy G if Watson (appropriately) gets suspended for most of the season. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure who else will be interested in trading for him.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
46,133
Mayfield has had two solid seasons and one bad one and one awful one that was marred by injury.(he literally couldn't throw the ball to any spots, so 2021 doesn't provide any context other than, "Don't start a QB who can't throw because he only has one shoulder.")

His rookie year, he had the most TDSs by a rookie in history. It has since been broken, but you don't get the TD rookie record by sucking. Baker has also had a ton of coaches and coordinators with no consistency whatsoever. He's been set up to suck. Sam Darnold has also been set up to suck but he's REALLY sucked.

Baker's first season with an actual good coach, he won a playoff game and came within inches(and a missed helmet to helmet) from beating the Chiefs. His second season with that coach, Baker couldn't throw after the 3rd week of the season.

Here's the thing about quarterbacks: Throwing is really important. Cam Newton nods. So I'm not sure if Baker has hit his ceiling. Maybe but we have absolutely no idea what his ceiling could be. He's never had a consistent system.

Getting him for a 5th rounder is an absolute steal. There is no downside to that.
His second season, when expectations were sky high, their offensive game plan was a freaking joke. Seemingly every pass play called for Baker to do a 7+ step drop, face pressure through a porous OL, and try to find guys a hundred yards downfield with defenders bearing down on him. The coaching really failed him.

At the very least he has a ceiling of decent quarterback.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
54,495
New York City
His second season, when expectations were sky high, their offensive game plan was a freaking joke. Seemingly every pass play called for Baker to do a 7+ step drop, face pressure through a porous OL, and try to find guys a hundred yards downfield with defenders bearing down on him. The coaching really failed him.

At the very least he has a ceiling of decent quarterback.
Baker's first two seasons, he had Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens as his coaches. Ouch.

And last season, I don't think you can rate Baker. He was broken physically and he shouldn't have been playing at all. It is not weird that Carolina's expected 2022 win total went up on the news they traded for Baker.

That said, Matt Rhule saying there will be a QB battle between Baker and Darnold is absurd and kind of embarrassing. If it's a competition, why did you bother trading for him? Stop lying, it's lame. You're not Bill Belichick.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
9,396
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Baker's first two seasons, he had Hue Jackson and Freddie Kitchens as his coaches. Ouch.

And last season, I don't think you can rate Baker. He was broken physically and he shouldn't have been playing at all. It is not weird that Carolina's expected 2022 win total went up on the news they traded for Baker.

That said, Matt Rhule saying there will be a QB battle between Baker and Darnold is absurd and kind of embarrassing. If it's a competition, why did you bother trading for him? Stop lying, it's lame. You're not Bill Belichick.
Aside from the Russell Wilson/Deshaun Watson/Peyton Manning/Tom Brady/Drew Brees' of the world, aren't most QBs that teams acquire in this exact same situation? I mean, I really don't see coaches routinely talk about players they've just traded for as entrenched starters. Seems like run of the mill coach speak.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
31,264
Hingham, MA
Aside from the Russell Wilson/Deshaun Watson/Peyton Manning/Tom Brady/Drew Brees' of the world, aren't most QBs that teams acquire in this exact same situation? I mean, I really don't see coaches routinely talk about players they've just traded for as entrenched starters. Seems like run of the mill coach speak.
Agreed - we've seen it a million times from BB even when they have brought in the likes of Moss and Revis. "We'll see how it goes".