Maye-day Every Day

Auger34

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Mac sucked AND ALSO Belichick did an abominable job choosing how to support his development in terms of coaches AND personnel.
I think the coaches surrounded Mac with were absolutely abominable. I’m not a Mac fan but I have to question whether that group could raise the floor for any QB
 

lexrageorge

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I think the coaches surrounded Mac with were absolutely abominable. I’m not a Mac fan but I have to question whether that group could raise the floor for any QB
McDaniels and Bill O'Brien both have pretty good track records coaching offenses. Blame 80% on the player, 15% on the supporting cast, and 5% on the Matt Patricia coaching experience.
 

ManicCompression

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FWIW, Ben Solak of the Ringer with an optimistic outlook on Drake Maye starting year 1 in the "Zag" portion of this article: https://www.theringer.com/nfl-draft/2024/4/28/24143622/the-nfl-hot-read-why-did-offense-dominate-the-2024-nfl-draft

Polk and Baker win downfield in different ways—Polk with elevation and adjustment, Baker with runaway speed—but both are huge downfield winners. The potential marriage between Maye, Polk, and Baker is encouraging to project.

So the Patriots did well to build around their young quarterback (I also love Jaheim Bell in the seventh round, a uniquely gifted YAC athlete for the tight end position). But many evaluators considered Maye predraft as a quarterback who would benefit from sitting for at least a season, and that advice continued when he landed on the shaky Patriots roster behind veteran QB Jacoby Brissett.

I disagree. I think you can play Maye right away in New England, and it won’t break him. In fact, I think he can be a pretty good rookie.

While I agree that terrible environments can hamper the development of young passers, the poor state of the Patriots’ offensive roster was exaggerated before the draft. Four of the five starters on the offensive line are set and solid, with two above-average starters in RT Michael Onwenu and RG Sidy Sow, who grew nicely into his role as a rookie last season. Neither Hunter Henry at tight end nor Bourne at wide receiver (the latter of whom is coming off of an ACL injury) is a particularly sexy player, but both would be starters on most NFL teams. Rhamondre Stevenson is a great receiving back. The Patriots were below average offensively last year, but they weren’t terrible.

Throw in the new pieces, and there’s enough there to incubate a young quarterback. And you know what? We overrate the importance of that, too. I watched Trevor Lawrence’s rookie season in Jacksonville, when he threw 220 targets to Marvin Jones and Laviska Shenault Jr.—yes, the Jags were awful, but Lawrence was clearly good. In Houston last year, nobody was singing the praises of Nico Collins and Dalton Schultz and Bobby Slowik until C.J. Stroud walked in and brought everyone’s game up a few notches. Maye has the sort of talent that can shine through a poor supporting cast and elevate a below-average one.

I loved Maye as a prospect. Would I have preferred if he landed in Minnesota? Sure. But I disagree with the idea that he’s too raw to start, and I disagree with the idea that the Patriots offense isn’t good enough around him. Will they finish first in points scored? Probably not. But if Maye needs to learn by doing, then throw him out there and let him do. I bet the results will be far better than anyone expects.
 

DJnVa

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I like this, from that link:

"I think Drake Maye is one of the best middle-of-the-field throwers I've ever seen in college football," PFF's Steve Palazzolo told Next Pats prior to the draft. "As far as the feel of throwing a seam route, throwing the ball around defenders, throwing with touch, layering it -- the middle of the field is outstanding."
Cynthia Frelund, analytics expert for NFL Media, shared with Next Pats one number in particular that backed that up: Maye's intermediate completions had a speed variance -- showing his ability to layer targets to that area -- of about seven miles per hour. Over the last three seasons, Power Five quarterbacks had an average speed variance of about half that (3.4).
"He attacks the middle of the field," Nate Tice of The Athletic told the GoJo and Golic podcast earlier this offseason. "I think that is the 3-pointer for quarterbacks. It's where the YAC is. It's where the juiciest areas are. But it's also the hardest area to attack. And he does it already."
 

rodderick

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I like this, from that link:
It's the thing Brady did better than anyone and what allowed him to never be counted out in games. If you can attack the intermediate middle of the field, they can't play zone against you and force you to go 10 plays to score. You can get chunks everywhere.
 

dynomite

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It's the thing Brady did better than anyone and what allowed him to never be counted out in games. If you can attack the intermediate middle of the field, they can't play zone against you and force you to go 10 plays to score. You can get chunks everywhere.
Another other element that made this work was that Brady had (has...) a) a supernatural ability to understand what the defense is doing and which WR will be open on a play, and b) a supernatural ability to understand when to take a 20ish yard shot and when to dump it underneath and let Faulk/Vereen/White etc. run with it.

No QB is ever going to be Tom Brady, so all of these comparisons are inherently unfair. But putting aside the GOAT, Maye has the special arm that will allow him to be just about anything as an NFL QB. The question is whether he can process what's happening and make the right decision with the right mechanics 90+% of the time, week after week, with massive guys in his face and elite DBs in coverage in howling winds and freezing conditions.

Of course we won't know the answer until he gets into games, but I'm just thrilled to once again have a QB on the roster who has that level of potential.
 

Gash Prex

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I think the pendulum on Drake Maye has really swung too far on the opposite side to "he's a mess and his footwork is terrible." So long as he can learn the playbook and isn't totally overwhelmed at the line ("seeing ghosts") I'd be looking at starting him sooner rather than later.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think the pendulum on Drake Maye has really swung too far on the opposite side to "he's a mess and his footwork is terrible." So long as he can learn the playbook and isn't totally overwhelmed at the line ("seeing ghosts") I'd be looking at starting him sooner rather than later.
Agreed. This isn’t a playoff team this year. They will be bad-ish. I’m fine letting him watch from the sidelines for a bit, if he needs it, but I’m also fine starting him Week 1, if he looks like he might be able to hang. We know there will likely be turnovers and WTF throws but the upside here is real and we need to see what we’ve got. I love Brissett but I hope I don’t have to watch too much of him this year.
 

Saints Rest

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Agreed. This isn’t a playoff team this year. They will be bad-ish. I’m fine letting him watch from the sidelines for a bit, if he needs it, but I’m also fine starting him Week 1, if he looks like he might be able to hang. We know there will likely be turnovers and WTF throws but the upside here is real and we need to see what we’ve got. I love Brissett but I hope I don’t have to watch too much of him this year.
I went back and looked at his stats. Pretty meh. He started more than 10 games in 3 seasons.
  • 2017: Rating 81.7; 58.8% reception rate; 3098 yds; 13:7 TD:INT.
  • 2019: 88.0; 60.9%; 2942; 18:6
  • 2022: 89.9; 64.0%, 2608; 12:6
  • Career: 85.2; 61.3%; 51:23
  • 4 comebacks, 5 game-winning drives
  • 200-260 yards rushing in his 3 starting seasons.

Screenshot 2024-04-29 at 2.09.13 PM.png
 

lexrageorge

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Seems like the optimal approach is to have an open competition at training camp, a-la the 2021 bake-off between Cam and Mac. Mac showed himself ready to be a starter of at least the caliber of the washed (at the time) Cam. If Maye isn't ready, then the (hopefully) short Jacoby era can begin.

Certainly don't want to risk the chance of Maye getting hurt, which is a distinct possibility if he isn't ready to read NFL defenses.
 

DJnVa

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The things like passing yards/game is skewed a bit due to his time as a backup.

He's basically started the equivalent of 3 full seasons.

His 16 game average: 3300 yards, 16/7 TD/INT, 285 rushing yards, 4 rushing TDs
 

Cellar-Door

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I went back and looked at his stats. Pretty meh. He started more than 10 games in 3 seasons.
  • 2017: Rating 81.7; 58.8% reception rate; 3098 yds; 13:7 TD:INT.
  • 2019: 88.0; 60.9%; 2942; 18:6
  • 2022: 89.9; 64.0%, 2608; 12:6
  • Career: 85.2; 61.3%; 51:23
  • 4 comebacks, 5 game-winning drives
  • 200-260 yards rushing in his 3 starting seasons.

View attachment 81774
Here are the numbers with just Jacoby starts:

81778
 

Cellar-Door

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Methinks Jacoby yardage has a typo
whoops, yeah an extra 9 in there

The obvious difference between the two is that Mac passes to the other team a lot (career INT 2.8%) and Jacoby doesn't (career INT 1.4%).
yeah, he actually I think also takes more sacks. But yeah one of the things that makes Jacoby such a good backup/fringe starter is... you don't want those guys getting too aggressive and throwing picks. When you're going to that guy you are generally asking him to keep you in games, and not lose them, as opposed to expensive top end starters who are expected to WIN you games and pick up everyone else.
 

ManicCompression

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whoops, yeah an extra 9 in there


yeah, he actually I think also takes more sacks. But yeah one of the things that makes Jacoby such a good backup/fringe starter is... you don't want those guys getting too aggressive and throwing picks. When you're going to that guy you are generally asking him to keep you in games, and not lose them, as opposed to expensive top end starters who are expected to WIN you games and pick up everyone else.
And the underlying issue here is... Mac Jones shouldn't be in a position to be compared to a fringe backup/starter. Brissett is what he is, while Mac was expected to be much more than that and somehow he's less.
 

DJnVa

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From that article:

Vikings were ultimately willing to part with No. 11 and No. 23, along with a 2025 first-rounder, in exchange for the third pick and two mid-round selections from New England.
I didn't like the Vikings offer when it was 11, 23, and a 2025 first and now we hear they wanted more picks from the Pats?

GFY.
 

astrozombie

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From that article:



I didn't like the Vikings offer when it was 11, 23, and a 2025 first and now we hear they wanted more picks from the Pats?

GFY.
I legit don't understand NFL trades. SF traded #12, a 2022 first and third rounder and a 2023 first rounder for the #3 pick in 2021. I would have expected a similar package from the Vikings to move from #11 to #3. To find they wanted some mid-round selections on top of that is crazy.
 

Silverdude2167

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I legit don't understand NFL trades. SF traded #12, a 2022 first and third rounder and a 2023 first rounder for the #3 pick in 2021. I would have expected a similar package from the Vikings to move from #11 to #3. To find they wanted some mid-round selections on top of that is crazy.
11, 23 and a 2025 first is a better return that what SF traded.

2 1st round picks this year and a first next year is better than 3 firsts over 3 years even included the 3rd rounder in what would be 25 in this case.
 

Norm loves Vera

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Thank you for posting that. I am so grateful we have Reiss covering the Patriots. He is a palete cleanser from many of the Boston area media / talking heads.

This part of the article interested me, especially the bolded.

"Van Pelt and Maye watched old tape of Aaron Rodgers from the Packers, when Van Pelt had been on the Green Bay coaching staff. Van Pelt detailed to Maye the "outside zone scheme" he plans to run in New England, and some of the play-action elements that can complement it, using Rodgers as an example. "

I don't know a darn thing about outside zone scheme and wondered if that particular plan of attack changes the matrix of what a traditional left tackle needs to be or have certain traits and skill sets?

I did a quick google and it looks like there are plenty of videos on the subject, so I am excited to do some research over the next few days as I will have the time. We have a great number of x and o geeks here and wondered their thoughts. Is this a shift from what the Patriots have been doing?
 

dynomite

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"Van Pelt and Maye watched old tape of Aaron Rodgers from the Packers, when Van Pelt had been on the Green Bay coaching staff. Van Pelt detailed to Maye the "outside zone scheme" he plans to run in New England, and some of the play-action elements that can complement it, using Rodgers as an example. "
Was literally about to post that same snippet. And agreed that Reiss's coverage is a breath of fresh air from the breathless and relentlessly negative coverage of the team.

There's a great, detailed breakdown from Lazar (the most film heavy of the Patriots Unfiltered reporters) of AVP's "outside zone scheme" and how it has adapted over time.

Because things always come full circle, it seems outside zone schemes have changed... in part because of Bill Belichick and the Pats defensive scheme in SB 53 that showed how to beat them: https://www.patriots.com/news/film-review-how-will-the-patriots-offense-look-under-new-offensive-coordinator-alex-van-pelt

All the successful outside zone-play-action offenses are leading to more split-safety coverage structures, five-man fronts, and faster defenders at the second level who can fast-flow to the perimeter and recover to passing landmarks off play-action. As defenses have gotten lighter and better equipped to combat outside zone, offenses are adjusting, with even Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay majoring in more duo/gap schemes to run downhill into lighter boxes against stretched-out defenses.
Former head coach Bill Belichick had a hand in this shift in philosophy. In Super Bowl 53, Belichick shut down the Rams high-powered offense by unveiling a 6-1 tilt front to set the edge against McVay's outside zone schemes. With six defenders across the line of scrimmage, the Patriots defense funneled the ball back inside toward their big DTs and run-stuffing linebackers. In the secondary, the Pats played both quarters and cover-three buzz to limit big plays off play-action. Eventually, it put the game in a young Jared Goff's hands in obvious passing situations, and the Patriots won the duel.
McVay and others from the West Coast/outside zone family had to adjust to stay relevant. The answer was to call more gap schemes and add blockers to flip the formation's strength on the fly with motion. For Cleveland, they became a gap-based run scheme. Over the last two seasons, the Browns lead the league in how often they use man-blocking and heavily feature schemes with pulling linemen.
Here are the numbers with just Jacoby starts:

View attachment 81778
Amazing to think between him & Brady we had the 2 career NFL yardage leaders in the same QB room...

Anyway, yes, as you and others said, If you're going to be a "game manager" (TM) with a so-so arm, at a minimum you can't throw the ball to the other team. Better to eat it, take the sack, and punt.
 

Curt S Loew

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Well, the Brady comparisons are already starting! Drake Maye was named honorary chair for Best Buddies Challenge: Hyannis Port. A title TB12 held for over 20 years.

During the Challenge, Drake will interact with fans and supporters of Best Buddies at each of the weekend’s festivities, including a New England-style clambake and a private concert by guitar legend Don Felder, formerly of the Eagles, at Craigville Beach. Best Buddies and Drake Maye will bring back the legendary football toss, a tradition initiated by former Honorary Chair and Best Buddies Global Ambassador Tom Brady. Drake will also play golf with some of Best Buddies’ top supporters at the Hyannis Port Golf Club, capping off a weekend filled with fun, friendship and inclusion in support of individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

https://www.bestbuddies.org/2024/05/06/new-england-patriots-quarterback-drake-maye-named-honorary-chair-of-25th-anniversary-best-buddies-challenge-hyannis-port/
 

Eddie Jurak

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Isn't there a fixed salary scale for NFL draft picks based on where they are drafted?
I thought there was a pool for each team based on the number of picks and the positions of the picks, as opposed to a fixed scale. But what surpised me was the full guarantee. But since Richardson got the same last year I guess that is more standard than I realized.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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