Maye-day Every Day

Jimbodandy

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Don't move the goalposts. I wasn't arguing on a relative basis vs. the top QB's, just vs. rest of the FBS/P5 teams. I fully agree that Penix, MccCarthy and Daniels had more stacked offenses/teams

Also just going by who's entering the draft this year isn't everything.
If your argument was that he wasn't on shit teams with bad teammates compared to say Temple, my bad. Never occurred to me that we'd be comparing him to guys that weren't under consideration to be NFL starting quarterbacks. I'll try to read better.

It wasn't just Penix, McCarthy, and Daniels. Williams and Nix were also on teams with a lot more NFL talent. Basically everyone except Maye.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I believe you are misinterpreting Bill's assessment of Drake Maye. For every QB drafted, actually, every player drafted, Bill showed both the good plays and not-so-good plays each one made. He showed flaws in Caleb Williams and Jayden Daniels as well. And he also pointed out the good plays that Maye made ("he can make every throw" comment was a point that really impressed Bill).

And, really, if anything, Belichick's biggest reservation was that Maye is simply young and inexperienced. Maye has thrown 942 passes in 26 games as a starter. For comparison:

Caleb Williams: 1099 passes in 37 games
Daniels: 1438 in 55 games
Penix: 1685 passes in 48 games
Bo Nix: 1936 passes in 61 games

And, FWIW,

Mac Jones: 543 passes in 25 games
If anyone watched the first 3 picks on the awful Pat Mcafee show it was so scripted and obvious each QB BB BREAKDOWNZ!!!!! Was good play, bad play, good play, Bad play. It allowed BB to play both sides without stating a real opinion. Anyone taking that as BBs real opinion on the player should go buy a bridge.
 

lexrageorge

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If anyone watched the first 3 picks on the awful Pat Mcafee show it was so scripted and obvious each QB BB BREAKDOWNZ!!!!! Was good play, bad play, good play, Bad play. It allowed BB to play both sides without stating a real opinion. Anyone taking that as BBs real opinion on the player should go buy a bridge.
The show wasn’t great, but I did enjoy seeing Bill in this role. I never expected Bill to give teams grades on whether they made a good or bad pick. Besides, the experts thought Devin McCourty was going to have a ceiling as a special teams contributor.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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It's not about how good or bad the team will be next year.

It's what's better for Maye's development. I'm one that thinks he'd be better sitting and learning for a good chunk of 2024.
Oh, I don’t disagree at all. I’m just excited to see what this guy can do. The ceiling seems very high. After watching all of the dismal quarterback play last year I am just eager to see how he develops.
 

dynomite

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Watching the Patriots.com livestream last night, I was interested to hear Paul Perillo reading from (I think) Daniel Jeremiah's descriptions of strengths and weaknesses for Josh Allen and Drake Maye. Both were basically identical.
It was hilarious.

And also, I know numbers can lie, but I've heard a few people this week say that Allen was *clearly* a superior runner and comparing Maye to him is ridiculous... without at least acknowledging that Maye was the best runner of the 3 in college:

Maye: 302 attempts, 1,200 yards (4.0/attempt), 16 TDs
Allen: 237 attempts, 767 yards (3.2/attempt), 12 TDs
Love: 170 attempts, 403 yards (2.4/attempt), 9 TDs

Again, tell me that doesn't matter because of X, Y, and Z but simply ignoring it isn't impressive.
It's not about how good or bad the team will be next year.

It's what's better for Maye's development. I'm one that thinks he'd be better sitting and learning for a good chunk of 2024.
I continue to agree with this.
 

Ale Xander

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If your argument was that he wasn't on shit teams with bad teammates compared to say Temple, my bad. Never occurred to me that we'd be comparing him to guys that weren't under consideration to be NFL starting quarterbacks. I'll try to read better.

It wasn't just Penix, McCarthy, and Daniels. Williams and Nix were also on teams with a lot more NFL talent. Basically everyone except Maye.
You should have probably read the post I was replying to
 

Bernard Gilkey baby

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I like his makeup. This kid couldn’t be more stable. He’s got the same gf since 7th grade. His entire family are athletes. He has a support system that is disgustingly solid. He can just put his head down and eat and sleep football.
 

Jimbodandy

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You should have probably read the post I was replying to
I just Reread it. Sounds like the post was that Maye carried a bad team without a lot of weapons. And your response was that they weren't a bad team without a lot of weapons. Guess that's fine in a vacuum.

Seems to me that anyone who wants to call out Maye's lack of future pro teammates compared to his contemporaries has a leg to stand on there. But yeah I guess perhaps calling an 8-5 team in a mediocre ACC "terrible" could be interpreted as a bit of hyperbole, sure.

Still think that it's more likely that his program benefitted from the QB than all of his drafted contemporaries, who most likely themselves benefitted from multiple future NFL teammates.
 
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Deathofthebambino

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Arguably, the best quarterbacks in the NFL right now include guys from Texas Tech, Wyoming and Louisville...

Tell me again how UNC isn't a good enough pedigree to succeed in the NFL. I dont know how many times I can say it, but coaching matters. College statistics don't. Drake Maye may have legitimately had better coaching in high school than in college. The coaching he's about to have in the NFL will be exponentially better than what he's had previously.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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A Scud Away from Hell
The team from Washington did the Pats a huge solid. Maye is going to be awesome, last year's debacle was the best thing to happen to the Pats in years.
Absolutely. Maye was my pick from the start and was nervous that Commanders might come to their senses and pick him ahead of Daniels.
 

Jimbodandy

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Arguably, the best quarterbacks in the NFL right now include guys from Texas Tech, Wyoming and Louisville...

Tell me again how UNC isn't a good enough pedigree to succeed in the NFL. I dont know how many times I can say it, but coaching matters. College statistics don't. Drake Maye may have legitimately had better coaching in high school than in college. The coaching he's about to have in the NFL will be exponentially better than what he's had previously.
Oh yeah coaching matters for sure. One of Maye's selling points is untapped potential, something that differentiates him from some of his older colleagues from bigger programs.

It's also fantastic to imagine what he could do with better teammates. Some of the other first rounders are used to a bunch of studs blocking, tackling, rushing, and catching for them.
 

Ale Xander

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Oh yeah coaching matters for sure. One of Maye's selling points is untapped potential, something that differentiates him from some of his older colleagues from bigger programs.

It's also fantastic to imagine what he could do with better teammates. Some of the other first rounders are used to a bunch of studs blocking, tackling, rushing, and catching for them.
Omarion Hampton is going to be one of the first RB’s taken next year and is the leading contender for ACC Player of the Year. Maye did have a stud rushing for him this year.
 

ManicCompression

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I think it's really cool that, in a few years, we're actually going to get some kind of confirmation about whether the decision to move off BB was correct or not. If Bill wasn't doing these draft breakdowns, we might still think in the back of our minds, even if Maye worked out, "Could he have done better? What if you gave BB that top 3 pick?"

But now we know. Had BB stayed on, he likely wouldn't have taken Maye because of where he had him on his board. If Maye turns out to be a good, young QB, then the org made the right decision to move on. If he's a bust... then it's pretty fair to question what the alternative would've been.
 

jsinger121

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I think it's really cool that, in a few years, we're actually going to get some kind of confirmation about whether the decision to move off BB was correct or not. If Bill wasn't doing these draft breakdowns, we might still think in the back of our minds, even if Maye worked out, "Could he have done better? What if you gave BB that top 3 pick?"

But now we know. Had BB stayed on, he likely wouldn't have taken Maye because of where he had him on his board. If Maye turns out to be a good, young QB, then the org made the right decision to move on. If he's a bust... then it's pretty fair to question what the alternative would've been.
If anything they are actually supporting the new young QB with WR and OL help to build upon. You can’t say that about the previous regime which did very little to put the previous first round QB in a better position to succeed.
 

ManicCompression

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If anything they are actually supporting the new young QB with WR and OL help to build upon. You can’t say that about the previous regime which did very little to put the previous first round QB in a better position to succeed.
Yeah, but the Drake Maye of it is the most important and consequential decision. If he's good or not good, we have pretty decent evidence as to what decision BB would've made if he was still here.
 

jsinger121

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Yeah, but the Drake Maye of it is the most important and consequential decision. If he's good or not good, we have pretty decent evidence as to what decision BB would've made if he was still here.
Absolutely the case. You aren't going to find Tom Brady types in the 6th round again. Once in a lifetime lottery ticket. Look at the four AFC division winners. All first round picks. 3 of the 4 top 10 picks. You need to take that chance with a guy like Drake Maye who has big upside if you want to get into that next level again.
 

DJnVa

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The Athletic, on how the Pats got to Maye: How the Patriots spurned trade offers and decided on QB Drake Maye at No. 3 in the draft

Eliot Wolf didn’t wait. It didn’t matter that he still had plenty of time on the clock, crucial minutes to potentially field trade offers from a slew of desperate teams with similar feelings about Drake Maye. With time to spare, the New England Patriots sent their pick to the league.
The Patriots’ decision-makers brought Maye into a small conference room during the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis for a brief interview. Those sessions usually go similarly for most teams. Introductions turn into stories. Players are quizzed on a whiteboard and asked to explain some of their highlights from the past season.

But the Pats wanted to do something a little different with Maye. They know playing in a big-market, sports-obsessed region like New England comes with its own challenges if the player isn’t ready to handle it.

So on the monitor at the front of the room, the Patriots played some of Maye’s worst plays from the season. After a stellar freshman season at North Carolina, Maye’s production dropped off as a redshirt sophomore. There wasn’t as much talent around him, and Maye started playing a bit more recklessly as a result. On other plays, breakdowns from teammates led to poor results. So they showed those plays to Maye and asked about them.

“He took a lot of that blame on himself even when sometimes it wasn’t his fault,” Mayo said of Maye’s answers.
 

BigJimEd

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If he's good or not good, we have pretty decent evidence as to what decision BB would've made if he was still here.
We do? Where are you getting this evidence?
I watched what BN said about Maye and others and I didn't see anything. He didn't really give away much but I'd say Maye was still the likely pick.

Did I miss something?
 

Moviegoer

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@Moviegoer what were your 3 reasons? Curious as to your 3 reasons to a fake Wikipedia entry
None of the reasons were about a fake Wikipedia entry. That's just the kind of silly crap that goes on these days.
They were about if it was the actual truth, that his parents did in fact name him after the last person to murder an American President. Which would mean he was raised by either far-far right dipshits, far-far left dipshits, or tinfoil conspiracy nuts.
 

E5 Yaz

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Reisss with more background this morning:
"Every NIL deal, before he took the opportunity, he made sure that one of his teammates was involved with it," Brown told ESPN in an interview. "They would call and somebody would want him to represent their company or such, and he'd say, 'That's fine, but I'm going to get the receivers involved too.' Or the seafood restaurant wants to give him free meals for a year, he says, 'Great, but you have to get the offensive line too.' It was always 'somebody on this team is going to do it with me.' That's just kind of the kid he is."
Maye teamed with quarterback Sam Howell, his close friend who's now with the Seahawks, to direct NIL funds to support a local nonprofit organization with a goal to feed underprivileged children.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40039753/patriots-qb-drake-maye-leadership-mack-brown-nfl-draft-unc
 

twibnotes

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None of the reasons were about a fake Wikipedia entry. That's just the kind of silly crap that goes on these days.
They were about if it was the actual truth, that his parents did in fact name him after the last person to murder an American President. Which would mean he was raised by either far-far right dipshits, far-far left dipshits, or tinfoil conspiracy nuts.
the beau and Luke thing is a little cringey
 

Steve Dillard

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Picking up on the Yates film study and how reads are only 2 or so options these days. As someone lacking nuance on reads, my impression from the Brady era is that much of Brady's success stems from pre-snap reads or pressure and coverages, mixed with being able to adjust just at snap. Not the later real-time reads once the play develops. There's the basic zone/man reads through motion, but also identifying linemen rushing vs. faking. All of that is before the play. So that the "progression" reads are a lot less important. There's obvious limits to this for a smart QB like Jones, or even experienced guys like Hoyer, whose physical skills hold them back. Is it that there is a read, but that it takes a bit of time to keep the play alive to get to that point, and Jones/Hoyer just lack that split second? Or footwork so that after that split second they are not ready to make the play? In other words, we know little about Maye's pre-read ability, plus I assume the NFL disguises and athletes make the College reads pretty limited. Then there's the bailout "keeping play alive" vs. "pull down and run" on which Daniels/Fields, etc seems weak.
All of that is to say it would seem that Jones should have been the smarter, more comparable to Brady skill set, rather than Maye. Is it just that Brady (and Manning) are at unicorn level pre-snap reads that even smart guys like Jones cannot accomplish, no matter how much film prep they do? Or that the game has moved more toward skills of keeping the play alive, like Mahomes/Josh Allen/Caleb Williams, so that this "let the play break down and make a play" is more acceptable? (and if so, where did Zach Wilson fail, as he had mobility but was still "seeing ghosts" (i.e., making bad reads on the run)
 

mostman

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Apologies then, I only saw parts where Bill was going through the board and I assumed it was his.
 

DourDoerr

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Couldn’t be more psyched to watch this guy play. Love the mix of arm and wheels. If the head is a decent match and he responds well to coaching, we’ve got something.

Just hope he doesn’t blow out his arm trying to keep up with 73 yard bombs. Jesus, that throw by Milton.
 

Hatcher Steals Home

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The article is wrong. Belichick clearly pointed out during that segment that Field Yates put together that big board.
Not only that, there was an opening segment with Field Yates introducing it as his big board and talking about how he learned how to put it together in part through his work as an intern with the Patriots.
 
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If anything they are actually supporting the new young QB with WR and OL help to build upon. You can’t say that about the previous regime which did very little to put the previous first round QB in a better position to succeed.
weird stance considering Belichick spent plenty of draft capital and free agent dollars building an offense around a presumptive young QB

If we’re taking into account pre-draft moves to “build a support system” with the knowledge that a rookie QB is likely en route (i.e. BB targeted a QB in 2021 and Wolf targeted a QB this year), BB did more to add talent to the offense - Henry, Jonnu Smith, Agoholor, bringing back Trent Brown is a much better haul (at the time of acquisition) than Gibson, Hooper, Osborn and Okorafor.

If we’re talking draft picks, the 2022 and 2023 BB drafts attempted to add pieces with both premium capital (Strange, Thornton) and lots of swings (all the OL last year, Douglas, Boutte, Strong)

no sense in re-litigating the results of BB’s efforts but I’m very skeptical that a haul of Polk/Wallace/Baker/Robinson/Bell is really a significant difference compared to Strange/Thornton/Sow/Mafi/Andrews/Douglas/Boutte in terms of actual capital spent or effort to invest in those positions

the difference is that Wolf’s first draft comes with a roster completely devoid of talent so he had to hit offense harder and BB’s “Jones draft” came when there were fewer immediate holes on the roster (because of the free agency splurge)

so if we’re talking purely on effort spent, not outcomes (since we know the outcomes of the BB players and tbd on Wolf players), I don’t see how anyone can argue Wolf has done more to rebuild an offense or get it ready for a young QB.

The complete absence of anything resembling a passable starting LT should be a point in favor of BB (Trent Brown) and while Jonnu and Agoholor didn’t work out, I doubt their production is going to be appreciably worse -albeit at a higher cost - than KJ Osborn and Austin Hooper.

it’s not like either GM was signing premium WR talent or drafting elite receiver talent.
 

Justthetippett

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weird stance considering Belichick spent plenty of draft capital and free agent dollars building an offense around a presumptive young QB

If we’re taking into account pre-draft moves to “build a support system” with the knowledge that a rookie QB is likely en route (i.e. BB targeted a QB in 2021 and Wolf targeted a QB this year), BB did more to add talent to the offense - Henry, Jonnu Smith, Agoholor, bringing back Trent Brown is a much better haul (at the time of acquisition) than Gibson, Hooper, Osborn and Okorafor.

If we’re talking draft picks, the 2022 and 2023 BB drafts attempted to add pieces with both premium capital (Strange, Thornton) and lots of swings (all the OL last year, Douglas, Boutte, Strong)

no sense in re-litigating the results of BB’s efforts but I’m very skeptical that a haul of Polk/Wallace/Baker/Robinson/Bell is really a significant difference compared to Strange/Thornton/Sow/Mafi/Andrews/Douglas/Boutte in terms of actual capital spent or effort to invest in those positions

the difference is that Wolf’s first draft comes with a roster completely devoid of talent so he had to hit offense harder and BB’s “Jones draft” came when there were fewer immediate holes on the roster (because of the free agency splurge)

so if we’re talking purely on effort spent, not outcomes (since we know the outcomes of the BB players and tbd on Wolf players), I don’t see how anyone can argue Wolf has done more to rebuild an offense or get it ready for a young QB.

The complete absence of anything resembling a passable starting LT should be a point in favor of BB (Trent Brown) and while Jonnu and Agoholor didn’t work out, I doubt their production is going to be appreciably worse -albeit at a higher cost - than KJ Osborn and Austin Hooper.

it’s not like either GM was signing premium WR talent or drafting elite receiver talent.
The BB didn't support Mac narrative basically starts in year 2, when the Matty P decision happens and Mac starts to really struggle, primarily because he can't play QB in the NFL. I also think last year might look a little different if Meyers (with whom Mac had a good connection) is here instead of JJSS, and the Oline was more healthy. But really we learned he couldn't cut it. The non-support narrative is a tiresome position that gets brought up in the media all the time but really doesn't tell the whole story. Well put by @NextBigThing8184.

That said, I think the Pats attention to offense in this draft was warranted, and I'm excited to see the WRs and Bell work with Maye from the jump.
 

rodderick

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People conveniently forget just how much "Mac faded down the stretch and couldn't carry his weight when the schedule got tougher" was a HUGE conversation going into 2022. There's this perception that he had this clean unassailable rookie year when reality is even then fans and media had doubts.
 
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People conveniently forget just how much "Mac faded down the stretch and couldn't carry his weight when the schedule got tougher" was a HUGE conversation going into 2022. There's this perception that he had this clean unassailable rookie year when reality is even then fans and media had doubts.
Absolutely. He started out well, while being majorly managed by Josh McD, then started to come down to Earth (not that he was in the stratosphere or anything) when teams got film on him and the competition upped. A solid, but nowhere near spectacular rookie year. The downward trajectory began mid-rookie year.
 

ponch73

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Absolutely. He started out well, while being majorly managed by Josh McD, then started to come down to Earth (not that he was in the stratosphere or anything) when teams got film on him and the competition upped. A solid, but nowhere near spectacular rookie year. The downward trajectory began mid-rookie year.
100% agree. His performance before and after the 2021 bye week tells the tale.

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
First 13 games of 2021: 70.3%
Last 4 games of 2021: 59.9%

PASSING TD'S / INTERCEPTIONS
First 13 games of 2021: 16 TD / 8 INT
Last 4 games of 2021: 6 TD / 5 INT

YARDS PER ATTEMPT
First 13 games of 2021: 7.5
Last 4 games of 2021: 6.8

The wheels were starting to come off in the back end of 2021. Once he got knocked out of the game by the Ravens 3 games into the 2022 season, he was basically done.
 
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BusRaker

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I hope he doesn't run like Allen. Every time I watch the Bills the Buffalo bar collectively goes quiet when Josh takes a big hit.
 

Auger34

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I think it's really cool that, in a few years, we're actually going to get some kind of confirmation about whether the decision to move off BB was correct or not. If Bill wasn't doing these draft breakdowns, we might still think in the back of our minds, even if Maye worked out, "Could he have done better? What if you gave BB that top 3 pick?"

But now we know. Had BB stayed on, he likely wouldn't have taken Maye because of where he had him on his board. If Maye turns out to be a good, young QB, then the org made the right decision to move on. If he's a bust... then it's pretty fair to question what the alternative would've been.
If BB stayed, he trades down to take McCarthy or Nix. Pretty clear based off of his breakdowns and interviews this was his preferred method.

IMO, I am so happy that we didn’t have to experience that
 

Auger34

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weird stance considering Belichick spent plenty of draft capital and free agent dollars building an offense around a presumptive young QB

If we’re taking into account pre-draft moves to “build a support system” with the knowledge that a rookie QB is likely en route (i.e. BB targeted a QB in 2021 and Wolf targeted a QB this year), BB did more to add talent to the offense - Henry, Jonnu Smith, Agoholor, bringing back Trent Brown is a much better haul (at the time of acquisition) than Gibson, Hooper, Osborn and Okorafor.

If we’re talking draft picks, the 2022 and 2023 BB drafts attempted to add pieces with both premium capital (Strange, Thornton) and lots of swings (all the OL last year, Douglas, Boutte, Strong)

no sense in re-litigating the results of BB’s efforts but I’m very skeptical that a haul of Polk/Wallace/Baker/Robinson/Bell is really a significant difference compared to Strange/Thornton/Sow/Mafi/Andrews/Douglas/Boutte in terms of actual capital spent or effort to invest in those positions

the difference is that Wolf’s first draft comes with a roster completely devoid of talent so he had to hit offense harder and BB’s “Jones draft” came when there were fewer immediate holes on the roster (because of the free agency splurge)

so if we’re talking purely on effort spent, not outcomes (since we know the outcomes of the BB players and tbd on Wolf players), I don’t see how anyone can argue Wolf has done more to rebuild an offense or get it ready for a young QB.

The complete absence of anything resembling a passable starting LT should be a point in favor of BB (Trent Brown) and while Jonnu and Agoholor didn’t work out, I doubt their production is going to be appreciably worse -albeit at a higher cost - than KJ Osborn and Austin Hooper.

it’s not like either GM was signing premium WR talent or drafting elite receiver talent.
Ok, then Belichick wildly misspent the free agent dollars