The Boomer said:
Not so, Boomer. Miami Marlins officials were "outraged" the Red Sox sent only JBJ and Lavarnway after they sold "premium" tickets to see the World Champs. This article sums up my feelings pretty well.
Marlins "Outraged" by Red Sox Lineup for ST Game
- Thread starter soxfan121
- Start date
Not so, Boomer. Miami Marlins officials were "outraged" the Red Sox sent only JBJ and Lavarnway after they sold "premium" tickets to see the World Champs. This article sums up my feelings pretty well.
On the surface, this is highly amusing.
Above the surface, the "outraged" Marlins officials are complete douchebags.
Beneath the surface, is there some sort of quid pro quo between clubs for spring training games? Do the Cardinals & Red Sox, for instance, agree in advance that a certain quantity of projected positional starters, or at least projected 25-man guys, make the trip for each team when playing in the other's home park? If so, it would be the first I've ever heard of such an arrangement. And given the myriad issues that routinely pop up through Spring Training (players injured, players would rather work out at the home park with a coach on specific tasks, players would rather play the home game if it's a split squad day, etc.), a ridiculous and foolish expectation to set, let alone maintain.
If there is no such quid pro quo arrangement, then fuck the Marlins indeed. The sarcastic tone of that article is outstanding.
Above the surface, the "outraged" Marlins officials are complete douchebags.
Beneath the surface, is there some sort of quid pro quo between clubs for spring training games? Do the Cardinals & Red Sox, for instance, agree in advance that a certain quantity of projected positional starters, or at least projected 25-man guys, make the trip for each team when playing in the other's home park? If so, it would be the first I've ever heard of such an arrangement. And given the myriad issues that routinely pop up through Spring Training (players injured, players would rather work out at the home park with a coach on specific tasks, players would rather play the home game if it's a split squad day, etc.), a ridiculous and foolish expectation to set, let alone maintain.
If there is no such quid pro quo arrangement, then fuck the Marlins indeed. The sarcastic tone of that article is outstanding.
I can understand them being upset. "Outraged" is a bit beyond the pale, but hasn't it been a thing the past forever, that there be at least three regulars in every game?
Then again, if you're selling tickets as a "premium" spring training game then you deserve to be fucked because you're a douchebag.
Then again, if you're selling tickets as a "premium" spring training game then you deserve to be fucked because you're a douchebag.
Great that the local media are giving it to the team after the way they have operated over the last several years.
EDIT: Ha, wrong. The local writer wasn't quoted above. Jesus:
On the other hand, it must be a bit bleak to be the Marlins beat writer.
EDIT: Ha, wrong. The local writer wasn't quoted above. Jesus:
and
Something they have done consistently throughout the 21st century.
On the other hand, it must be a bit bleak to be the Marlins beat writer.
The point of spring training is not to sell tickets. It's to get the players ready for real games, where teams can focus on selling tickets.
This is an irrelevant team using a relevant team to drum up some attention.
This is an irrelevant team using a relevant team to drum up some attention.
Their President ended up on a famous outdoorsy reality show, claiming his best accomplishment as ripping off the city to build them a ballpark, showed up in a blazer and slacks, and proceeded to be the first person voted out.
Enough said.
Enough said.
Can I be outraged on days that Marmol doesn't pitch and they put a $25M payroll on the field in front of this:
Now don't even get me started on days where Marmol doesn't pitch and Salty and/or Furcal are out of the lineup.
Man if it weren't for this magnificent moment....
Now don't even get me started on days where Marmol doesn't pitch and Salty and/or Furcal are out of the lineup.
Man if it weren't for this magnificent moment....
Dear Marlins:
Consider the possibility that one of the reasons why the Red Sox are world champions, and you aren't, is that they understand what spring training is for, and you don't.
If you're having trouble selling March tickets, try putting a team on the field that any sane baseball fan could possibly give a shit about.
Sincerely,
Any sane baseball fan
Consider the possibility that one of the reasons why the Red Sox are world champions, and you aren't, is that they understand what spring training is for, and you don't.
If you're having trouble selling March tickets, try putting a team on the field that any sane baseball fan could possibly give a shit about.
Sincerely,
Any sane baseball fan
Hambone said:
This should help: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/news/2003/06/27/marlins_redsox_ap/
mabrowndog said:
I forget the specifics, but in recent years MLB has put out guidance to clubs about the composition of teams playing on the road in ST games. These games are no longer simple tune-ups, but also have morphed into important marketing/revenue opportunities in their own right. Other teams have complained about the quality of traveling teams in ST games. I think the Orioles bitched about a Sox contingent last year or the year before.
Hardball Times suggests it's "at least 4 regulars." In reality, teams seem to skate by with 3 regulars and a fringe-type player (e.g., Brandon Snyder) for the 4th. The recent Sox contingent seems to have clearly fallen below the standard (JBJ, Lavarnway, and Snyder), so the Marlins (despite a routinely fraudulent MLB roster) have some basis for their gripe.
I have attended several Sox games in Jupiter in previous years and always saw a more "legit" batting order than the one that played there vs. the Marlins. I would not have been a terribly happy paying customer to see that group of guys get off the bus. Well, that's a bit of a lie as I still would have been happy to be in Florida.
This is basically inevitable with what Spring Training has become. The primary goal of a team is to get ready for the season, but it has also turned into a big cash cow for the teams -- with huge ticket prices and marketing. I understand the Marlins disappointment, but teams have been keeping their stars off buses in the spring for decades, especially in the first week of March.
The Marlins were "outraged" because we were "running up the score"
(I see this was already mentioned above. Good)
The Marlins were "outraged" because of how we handled Cabin Mirror
To heck with the Marlins
(I see this was already mentioned above. Good)
The Marlins were "outraged" because of how we handled Cabin Mirror
To heck with the Marlins
It is okay for teams. including the Red Sox, to use dynamic ticket pricing depending on their opponent in regular season, though?
MLB has set down rules/guidelines on team structure for away games in spring training. The Red Sox did not follow them against Miami and I expect that they will hear about it (quite possibly in their wallet); although, we may never learn about it.
MLB has set down rules/guidelines on team structure for away games in spring training. The Red Sox did not follow them against Miami and I expect that they will hear about it (quite possibly in their wallet); although, we may never learn about it.
I wonder if these rules will get added to the CBA. Seems like a way the teams make more money off of the players without the players getting a piece of it.
OttoC said:
All that may or may not be true, but I hope Cherrington, Farrell and the other "baseball guys" do whatever they think is best for the baseball team.
Also, screw the Marlins.
Wait... so the Marlins are upset that something arrives that's not as adevertised--like their team after Miama built the stadium?
Did they send any players with beards? I know that's so last year, but it would have been enough to appease the Marlins.
jose melendez said:
You simply don't understand. Mark Buerhle was the key to the door of awesomeness.
jose melendez said:
Or maybe the Red Sox bring all the regulars, and then right after the first pitch they take them away by helicopter. You could say they bait the people into paying the money, then switch the good players out with cheapies. Would the Marlins be upset about that?
Brianish said:
I suppose the additional revenue could be an investment (if they actually spent it on their brand). However, I suspect that most of the fans that paid the inflated ticket prices were Red Sox fans (or fans of the game). The Marlins are so non-competitive that I can't imagine their fans get super excited about seeing them play a good team.
The Red Sox should tweet the Iverson "We're Talking About Practice" YouTube clip to the Marlins.
OttoC said:
I think it's pretty shitty, actually, but it's also apples and lugnuts. In a regular season game, you're pretty sure they're putting out the best team they can, or close to it. In spring training, you're guaranteed to never get the best team, and even the best parts of the team aren't going to be playing the whole game.
Most of baseball is appalled by the Marlins, which is why this is so entertaining. But there is in fact a rule about the number of "regulars" a team is supposed to take on spring training road trips. The problem is that the rule is so vague that there's no way to enforce it:
"A minimum of four players who are regulars on the previous year’s major league team or who were platooned on the previous year’s major league team on a regular basis, or who have a reasonable chance to be regulars on the major league club’s squad during the upcoming season. Each of those regulars, excluding pitchers, must play a minimum of three complete innings."
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-03-06/sports/sfl-marlins-red-sox-lineup-blog-20140306_1_boston-red-sox-allen-webster-miami-marlins
If the Marlins complain that we violated the rule, we could claim that Bradley, Webster, Brentz, Snyder, Britton, Wilson, etc. are all in a competition for a roster spot.
"A minimum of four players who are regulars on the previous year’s major league team or who were platooned on the previous year’s major league team on a regular basis, or who have a reasonable chance to be regulars on the major league club’s squad during the upcoming season. Each of those regulars, excluding pitchers, must play a minimum of three complete innings."
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2014-03-06/sports/sfl-marlins-red-sox-lineup-blog-20140306_1_boston-red-sox-allen-webster-miami-marlins
If the Marlins complain that we violated the rule, we could claim that Bradley, Webster, Brentz, Snyder, Britton, Wilson, etc. are all in a competition for a roster spot.
Don't underestimate Ben, it's the start of a process. They'll like those guys next year when 3-4 go their way for Giancarlo. He's just building value.
I'm sure he's on the phone this morning explaining how those 7 of those 9 are untouchable in trade discussions.
I'm sure he's on the phone this morning explaining how those 7 of those 9 are untouchable in trade discussions.
I was once an assistant coach for a college team that was winless the three previous years before our staff took over. the first year in particular we were getting worked and I admit I let things that should not bother me get to me. I remember how frustrating it was in nonconference games when teams didn't play their starters and beat us. So I can understand when your MLB line-up gets 2 hits off the other teams crappy team.Everything is a bit more bothersome when you suck.
Hoplite said:
The rule seems clear enough, and I suppose it's intended wth fans in mind, but does ANYONE make a decision about going to a ST (DURING THE FIRST WEEK OF ST) game based on the fact that they might see FOUR real-ish major leaguers for 3 innings? Its like MLB is saying, "We know fans are so fucking dumb that we have to do this to protect them from their own stupidity." Thanks MLB, for the vote of confidence.
4 or 5 years ago, Lars Anderson signed my then- 9yr old's tshirt. He came in our direction after I said not-quietly, "you should get him to sign. he might be famous some day," She's not a big baseball fan, but still asks about him. *That's* what ST is. If people want to pay $40 for a game that doesn't count because they think it will be something more than a nice day in the sun where you might see something cool from a player you never heard of and may never again, then its their own fault. I can't really fault the teams for trying to squeeze the juice from those people.
JimD said:
Something like "we saw the Marlins lineup and figured that it was 'trot your AAA Teams out day' " would have made me love even Lucciano
Marlins notes: Red Sox apologize for skimpy travel roster
“We got an email from their GM saying they had some injuries and were working on some things,” Hill said. “He apologized, so I don't know if that meant he got a call from the league or what.” http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-miami-marlins-notes-20140307,0,3580469.story
“We got an email from their GM saying they had some injuries and were working on some things,” Hill said. “He apologized, so I don't know if that meant he got a call from the league or what.” http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-miami-marlins-notes-20140307,0,3580469.story
joe dokes said:
It doesn't seem clear to me. What constitutes a regular on a future team? Someone who's likely to star 150 games a year, a likely bench player or a prospect likely to be called up during the season? Does a likely member of the bullpen count as a "regular"? If the rule was meant to be enforced, I would think the wording would be much more specific.
beta1296 said:
Seems reasonable enough to me. It's public knowledge that both of our "regular" catchers are dealing with injuries.
Keep in mind the Marlins themselves have violated this rule all spring.
As pointed out on HBT, the Marlins have played 3 road games in ST so far and have brought 4 starters (per the rule that they're complaining about) only once:
March 1: Christian Yelich, Casey McGehee
March 2: Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Marcell Ozuna
March 5: Rafael Furcal, Marcell Ozuna, Garrett Jones, Casey McGehee
Stanton hasn't played in any road games yet.
So they're hypocrites. Big surprise there.
As pointed out on HBT, the Marlins have played 3 road games in ST so far and have brought 4 starters (per the rule that they're complaining about) only once:
March 1: Christian Yelich, Casey McGehee
March 2: Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Marcell Ozuna
March 5: Rafael Furcal, Marcell Ozuna, Garrett Jones, Casey McGehee
Stanton hasn't played in any road games yet.
So they're hypocrites. Big surprise there.
Wow. So they charged more knowing our fans would pack the house? Count your money and shut up.beta1296 said:
rembrat said:
Yup, and so do Lavarnway and Webster. There, three guys with rings were among the starters. Add in Salty and you had four 2013 rings on the field at once. What more could fans want?
Hoplite said:
I dont know about on the margins, but I think yesterday's Sox lineup probably qualifies as rule-breaking. But whtever meaning you want to ascribe to it, its a stupid rule, put there because MLB seems to think fans are stupid, and the visiting team should ignore it if following it is not in its best interests for the game that do count.
If I'm with the Marlins, I probably do my bitching behind the scenes, cognizant that: a) I'm probably right; but b) I look like a whiny asshole; and c) my regular team looks like a minor league outfit, and d) I dont like ridicule.
beta1296 said:
That's the weakest victory lap I've seen since a NASCAR driver got stuck in the infield dirt doing post-race donuts.
Hoplite said:
Right, exactly. It was infield shift day back in Ft. Myers, so that means Napoli, Middlebrooks, Pedroia and Bogaerts had to be there.
So catchers and outfielders: Ross and Pierzynski are waiting for swelling to recede right now. Victorino is working on his core strength. There should be no complaints there. Bradley, Jr. was there. So basically, of the position players, Ortiz, Nava, and Gomes have unexcused absences. Real talk: the Red Sox are not putting Papi on that bus. Would it have made much difference to them if Boston sent the same team, except with Gomes or Nava instead of Brentz?
As for pitching, Webster and Britton both have big league experience, and they both looked awfully like big leaguers out there.
Well to be fair it does say Major League talent. There is a very loose guideline on what that even means. I look at Brandon Snyder being more relevant than Casey McGehee. Yelich and Stanton are pure studsSmiling Joe Hesketh said:
So the Marlins are outraged that Boston brought only one starter and two "experienced" ML players but they aren't outraged that their lineup got outhit by Boston's ml team?
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
They might actually be douchier than the Yankees.
I do remember hearing this discussed before, I didn't know it was an actual rule, I'd remembered it as sort of a "gentlemen's agreement" about bringing a few regulars to road ST games. But really, it's ridiculous. And if MLB did make an issue of it I'm a little disgusted...if the Marlins are so concerned about their fans getting the shaft not seeing "real" major league players then maybe they shouldn't have sold them all.
