Marcus Jones role going forward

[Eddie Jurak]

Marcus Jones is listed at 5'8", 185, and he is (obviously) blazing fast and with football skills. You don't have to have a ton of football expertise to see on yesterday's interception or on his TC catch that he is at a different level.

He's also able to contribute in all three phases of the game.

He's also undersized in a way that makes him maybe not the best every down option on defense. But with all the recent secondary injuries, he's been pressed into every down duty, which I think has limited recent use on offense.

Anyway, what should be his future role? Returning kicks, obviously. After that, how much defense vs offense? Should he stay primarily a DB or have a more balanced role or be shifted fully to offense? And with a whole offseason to consider it, what are his best defensive and offensive roles? Obviously, starting CB vs those big CIN wideouts was not the ideal option.

Joes' potential and versatility are one of the real positives to come out of this dud of a season.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Great thread starter. So to me I think he should take smaller faster X’s and slots as a DB. For example I would staple him to Tyreek Hill. I’d also give him the odd offensive play. It depends on his stamina. If he can handle a ton of snaps that’s great. I do worry about him wearing down though. And yeah putting him on big WRs is asking for trouble long term. That was what scared me with him coming out because I saw how Alec Pierce absolutely worked him for Cincinnati. Higgins did the same. He has to be a matchup based guy. With their corner depth they don’t have much of a choice sadly.

 

[chilidawg]

I don't know what the Cinci snap counts were, but against the Raiders he played every D snap (68), 18 on special teams and 2 on offense. That"s a lot, obviously due in part to injuries to other guys. I'd rather see fewer snaps on D and more on offense as he's such a playmaker there. And of course the return game. Great pickup in the last draft.

 

[rodderick]

I think Marcus is special with the ball in his hands and not really special as a defender. I'd use him as a matchup guy on defense, preferably in the slot against quick twitch receivers and increase his snaps on offense. Don't even need him to run traditional routes, just have him in jet sweeps, screens and then whenever he's on the field keep him in motion to make defenses have to account for him.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Great thread starter. So to me I think he should take smaller faster X’s and slots as a DB. For example I would staple him to Tyreek Hill. I’d also give him the odd offensive play. It depends on his stamina. If he can handle a ton of snaps that’s great. I do worry about him wearing down though. And yeah putting him on big WRs is asking for trouble long term. That was what scared me with him coming out because I saw how Alec Pierce absolutely worked him for Cincinnati. Higgins did the same. He has to be a matchup based guy. With their corner depth they don’t have much of a choice sadly.

Higgins absolutely torched him, but he did play some nice coverage on Chase, iirc.

 

[PedrosRedGlove]

I don't know what the Cinci snap counts were, but against the Raiders he played every D snap (68), 18 on special teams and 2 on offense. That"s a lot, obviously due in part to injuries to other guys. I'd rather see fewer snaps on D and more on offense as he's such a playmaker there. And of course the return game. Great pickup in the last draft.

I knew he had played every snap against Las Vegas, didn't realize until just now that he played 67 (89%) against Arizona the week prior, and now 75 (90%) against Cinci. Really impressive. I know he's been beat at times but if he can also play defensively it will be interesting to see where he ends up next year and long term. He's electric any time he touches the football, even that 15 yard screen he caught yesterday was eye popping. It had me wondering why he wasn't being transitioned/used more as a gadget WR, and then he steps in as a full time CB.

He does seem to be on another level as a runner though, so I hope they do continue exploring any way they can get the ball in his hands. Indeed he was the bright spot in an otherwise lackluster season.

 

[EL Jeffe]

Great thread starter. So to me I think he should take smaller faster X’s and slots as a DB. For example I would staple him to Tyreek Hill. I’d also give him the odd offensive play. It depends on his stamina. If he can handle a ton of snaps that’s great. I do worry about him wearing down though. And yeah putting him on big WRs is asking for trouble long term. That was what scared me with him coming out because I saw how Alec Pierce absolutely worked him for Cincinnati. Higgins did the same. He has to be a matchup based guy. With their corner depth they don’t have much of a choice sadly.

I actually think he might make a really good FS and Dev replacement. He's very fast, has plenty of range, has exceptional ball skills and he tackles pretty well. He had some FS snaps at U Houston and Bill is certainly onboard with converting CBs to FSs. My biggest concern with moving him to FS would be having more collisions with the bigger players he'd have to tackle, and I'm not sure if he'd hold up and he's too valuable to the team to not hold up. Slot CB is probably the best place for him (while allowing him to play WR & ST), but I think he'd be such a weapon at FS with his speed, instincts and ball skills.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I think Marcus is special with the ball in his hands and not really special as a defender. I'd use him as a matchup guy on defense, preferably in the slot against quick twitch receivers and increase his snaps on offense. Don't even need him to run traditional routes, just have him in jet sweeps, screens and then whenever he's on the field keep him in motion to make defenses have to account for him.

Counterpoint.

He's played 32% of the defensive snaps and he has 2 interceptions (team leaders, Jon Jones and Devin McCourty with 3 each). And, of course, when he does catch it, he's a threat to score or at least gain a lot of yards.

He has 7 passes defended, second on the team after Jon Jones. Jack Jones, who has played 45% of the defensive snaps, has 6 passes defended, as do Dugger and McCourty.

His break-up of the deep ball in the Raiders game was phenomenal.

He also led the team in tackles yesterday with 14.

Could he be a replacement for McCourty, as the every down deep safety? Or is he better suited as a third/slot corner? If he's a part time CB, does that allow him to play more offensive snaps?

Or, should he just be converted to an offensive player who gets occasional defensive snaps?

I don't know, but it seems like there are plenty of options.

 

[Seels]

the problem with only giving him a few snaps a game on offense is that you're telegraphing the playcall.

Just continue with things as is and see how he progresses. I think in an ideal world he's playing like 70-80% of defensive snaps and like 25-30% of offensive snaps, continuing as the PR.

 

[chilidawg]

the problem with only giving him a few snaps a game on offense is that you're telegraphing the playcall.

Just continue with things as is and see how he progresses. I think in an ideal world he's playing like 70-80% of defensive snaps and like 25-30% of offensive snaps, continuing as the PR.

I'm not sure it really telegraphs the call, as he's valuable as a decoy as well. Having the defense hyper aware of him distracts them a little from everyone else.

 

[Bowser]

If Jones can only catch swing passes and screens, then the way he's being used is fine. If, however, he can develop a route tree, then I've love for him to have a much larger role on offense, and eventually transition full-time to that side of the ball. Decent slot corners are relatively plentiful, and his size will always limit his effectiveness. However, it took Edelman 4-5 years to become JE11, so we'd be looking at a multi-year process. But this offense needs speed and playmakers. IMO, MJ should be getting as many touches on O as he can handle.

 

[plucy]

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/video/marcus-jones-college-coach-he-can-contribute-receiver-patriots

 

[GB5]

It really irritates me that they spent a 2nd round pick in your speed/ trick play/bubble screen guy(Thorton) and about 8 games into his career you have turfed him in that role in favor of a lower drafted non offensive rookie.

 

[BigSoxFan]

It really irritates me that they spent a 2nd round pick in your speed/ trick play/bubble screen guy(Thorton) and about 8 games into his career you have turfed him in that role in favor of a lower drafted non offensive rookie.

Thornton is a straight line speed guy so don’t think he was ever brought on to be the bubble screen guy. Think they took a shot at him being Agholor’s replacement as the deep shot guy. We saw the potential value yesterday but of course this is the 2022 Patriots so we can’t have nice things and the jackass dropped a beautiful pass from Mac.

 

[SMU_Sox]

I actually think he might make a really good FS and Dev replacement. He's very fast, has plenty of range, has exceptional ball skills and he tackles pretty well. He had some FS snaps at U Houston and Bill is certainly onboard with converting CBs to FSs. My biggest concern with moving him to FS would be having more collisions with the bigger players he'd have to tackle, and I'm not sure if he'd hold up and he's too valuable to the team to not hold up. Slot CB is probably the best place for him (while allowing him to play WR & ST), but I think he'd be such a weapon at FS with his speed, instincts and ball skills.

Interesting thought. My only concern there is your FS is your last line of defense and he'd be the I think by far the smallest FS in the NFL both height and weight wise. Do you want him in run support in that capacity? I dunno - he's tough as nails. Like I said it's interesting but I would like to see it in camp and pre-season working first. And they might want to draft or sign another FS just in case it doesn't work out.

 

[BaseballJones]

I actually think Marcus would be amazing in like a Darren Sproles kind of role. Take a few handoffs, catch a bunch of passes both in the slot and out of the backfield. He’s too small to get 15 touches a game but maybe (?) 10? He’s just SO dynamic with the ball. And the Pats need so much more of that.

 

[chilidawg]

He wasn't too small to make 14 tackles last game.

 

[kenneycb]

Just because he can do something doesn’t mean you want him to do something. CB tackles can also be an indication of letting your guy get open a bunch.

 

[Otis Foster]

I wonder how his speed on offense affects Jones’ performance. Is there any data set that demonstrates that Jones is more effective when he has Marcus on the field? (I know, there are a million variables that can affect it, but it’s worth asking if Jones is a better qback when he has Marcus as a threat.)

 

[BigSoxFan]

Just because he can do something doesn’t mean you want him to do something. CB tackles can also be an indication of letting your guy get open a bunch.

Additionally, he had a few that were more just him pushing a WR out of bounds after a catch.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Just because he can do something doesn’t mean you want him to do something. CB tackles can also be an indication of letting your guy get open a bunch.

Well, it was a bad matchup and they picked on him. Still shows he can make tackles, which all defenders need to do. Which a free safety (perhaps a position Marcus could play?) would need to do.

 

[Bowser]

Tyreek Hill came into the league at 68.13 inches and 185 lbs, running a 4.29. Marcus Jones was 68.00 inches at 174 lbs and a 4.28. I could be wrong, but Hill doesn't strike me as an incredible technician in his route running, though he obviously has elite speed, quickness, and balance. So does Jones. Can Jones bulk up -- as Hill has -- and develop into a similar threat?

 

[kenneycb]

Well, it was a bad matchup and they picked on him. Still shows he can make tackles, which all defenders need to do. Which a free safety (perhaps a position Marcus could play?) would need to do.

My concern would be his body holding up making 100 tackles a year given his slight frame.

 

[PedrosRedGlove]

My concern would be his body holding up making 100 tackles a year given his slight frame.

Yeah I'm not a fan of the free safety idea. He's too small and too valuable elsewhere.

He might have the ability to play the position but he'd be at a disadvantage at 5'8" and if we don't want him getting too many touches on offense we also shouldn't want him seeing that much action in the middle of the field on defense. Tackles made on a slot receiver in coverage are a lot different than tackles made coming downhill on a RB.

If Jones can only catch swing passes and screens, then the way he's being used is fine. If, however, he can develop a route tree, then I've love for him to have a much larger role on offense, and eventually transition full-time to that side of the ball. Decent slot corners are relatively plentiful, and his size will always limit his effectiveness. However, it took Edelman 4-5 years to become JE11, so we'd be looking at a multi-year process. But this offense needs speed and playmakers. IMO, MJ should be getting as many touches on O as he can handle.

As for the potential route tree development, it sounds like he's been working really closely with Troy Brown, Lazar had this tidbit a couple weeks ago:
View: https://twitter.com/ezlazar/status/1602720126716981248?s=20&t=SHURk6f5X7AIBxCZwbFYsw

Asked #Patriots WR coach Troy Brown if Marcus Jones has been working on running downfield routes in practice: "he's been working" he said with a big smile.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Yeah I'm not a fan of the free safety idea. He's too small and too valuable elsewhere.

He might have the ability to play the position but he'd be at a disadvantage at 5'8" and if we don't want him getting too many touches on offense we also shouldn't want him seeing that much action in the middle of the field on defense. Tackles made on a slot receiver in coverage are a lot different than tackles made coming downhill on a RB.

OK, so full time free safety might be the wrong role. From 2017 to 2020, McCourty played all 64 games and avergaed 94% to 97% of defensive snaps and ~75 tackles per year. I can see where that is the wrong role for Marcus. If we want him on offense, then we should want him in a "less than every snap" role on defense anyway. And, as it happens, there are maybe 2 roles:

• Jon Jones types slot corner. From 2018 to 2020, Jon Jones played about 60% to 65% of defensive snaps and averaged about 60 tackles. Decent number of tackles but some of those were presumably of slot receivers.
• A Duron Harmon type free safety role. During his last 3 years with the Pats (2017 to 2019), he played between 61% and 66% of defensive snaps, so similar snaps as JJ. Many fewer tackles - he averaged just ~27. Harmon's bigger, obviously, but far less fast and explosive.

Either of those would be a limited enough role that he could also get some offensive snaps.

While we are on the topic of 2 way players, what about Kyle Dugger? He may not have the explosiveness of Marcus Jones, but that interception runback against the Dolphins was amazing. I don't think he's a natural a fit for the offense as Jones, but is there some sort of role for him on offense?

 

[BigSoxFan]

OK, so full time free safety might be the wrong role. From 2017 to 2020, McCourty played all 64 games and avergaed 94% to 97% of defensive snaps and ~75 tackles per year. I can see where that is the wrong role for Marcus. If we want him on offense, then we should want him in a "less than every snap" role on defense anyway. And, as it happens, there are maybe 2 roles:

• Jon Jones types slot corner. From 2018 to 2020, Jon Jones played about 60% to 65% of defensive snaps and averaged about 60 tackles. Decent number of tackles but some of those were presumably of slot receivers.
• A Duron Harmon type free safety role. During his last 3 years with the Pats (2017 to 2019), he played between 61% and 66% of defensive snaps, so similar snaps as JJ. Many fewer tackles - he averaged just ~27. Harmon's bigger, obviously, but far less fast and explosive.

Either of those would be a limited enough role that he could also get some offensive snaps.

While we are on the topic of 2 way players, what about Kyle Dugger? He may not have the explosiveness of Marcus Jones, but that interception runback against the Dolphins was amazing. I don't think he's a natural a fit for the offense as Jones, but is there some sort of role for him on offense?

Where would you play him? No place to play him and too valuable for the defense to risk injury.