Manny, Ortiz, Duquette, Gedman, and Dinneen to be inducted into Red Sox Hall of Fame

BuellMiller

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Thanks HPC. I've always thought that was one of the greatest columns ever written:

https://www.si.com/vault/1986/04/14/633776/a-real-rap-session


Also:
Yeah, that's a great article. I'm wondering who Williams was talking about when he said "he knows he's hitting too many pitchers' pitches. There are some hitters who had pretty good years, but now they're starting to filter down because pitchers know they'll swing at two or three balls. I can name you one in Boston who had some great years, but it's been steadily downhill since then. How the hell could the stupid American League pitchers let this guy hit like he did. They just weren't bearing down on him in the first three or four pitches.... "

This was during the 1986 spring training. My guess would be either Buckner or Tony Armas?

Also, I was amazed that the first LHP that Boggs mentioned as "nasty" was the great Matt Young.
 

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Yeah, that's a great article. I'm wondering who Williams was talking about when he said "he knows he's hitting too many pitchers' pitches. There are some hitters who had pretty good years, but now they're starting to filter down because pitchers know they'll swing at two or three balls. I can name you one in Boston who had some great years, but it's been steadily downhill since then. How the hell could the stupid American League pitchers let this guy hit like he did. They just weren't bearing down on him in the first three or four pitches.... "

This was during the 1986 spring training. My guess would be either Buckner or Tony Armas?

Also, I was amazed that the first LHP that Boggs mentioned as "nasty" was the great Matt Young.
Maybe it was Dave Stapleton?
 

iddoc

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Nov 17, 2006
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Rice? Armas had better (still not great) plate discipline in 1984 and 1985, and only his 1984 season would conceivably be described at “great” by Williams. I’m not sure Williams would have described any season by Buckner or especially Stapleton as “great,” though Buckner’s just completed 1985 season was about as good as could have been expected from him.
 

Montana Fan

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The Duke built the core of the team that won the series and deserves much respect.
If I recall correctly, Rice, Yaz, Evans and a ton of former players received 2004 WS Rings. Duquette deserved one too and I thought it was petty that his role in assembling that team was ignored by ownership. They and Theo deserved 90% of the credit, but he sure deserved some too. Glad he's going into the RS HoF. Mike Stanley and Carl Pavano for Pedro...Indeed!!
 

Mrmojo

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Thanks HPC. I've always thought that was one of the greatest columns ever written:
https://www.si.com/vault/1986/04/14/633776/a-real-rap-session
Williams to Boggs: "Attack that first-pitch fastball. At 2 and oh and 3 and 1, try to get a fastball you can drive in the air. You should be doing that now. There's no reason you shouldn't hit 18 or 20 home runs." The next year Boggs hit 24 home runs, and then went back to averaging 6 for a long time. I wonder if he was [briefly] following Ted's advice.
 

pjheff

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Williams to Boggs: "Attack that first-pitch fastball. At 2 and oh and 3 and 1, try to get a fastball you can drive in the air. You should be doing that now. There's no reason you shouldn't hit 18 or 20 home runs." The next year Boggs hit 24 home runs, and then went back to averaging 6 for a long time. I wonder if he was [briefly] following Ted's advice.
Nah, it was just 1987. Everyone was hitting home runs that year.
 

staz

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The cradle of the game.
After Dan's departure he founded a baseball academy for kids out in western MA. We sent our youngest son there for a week in late June. I drove down in a pouring rain and arrived to find Dan under an umbrella in a yellow hooded rain coat, water pouring off every square inch of him, coming out to the car to help us unload. He was gracious and unhurried, and stayed with us all the way through to handing us off to a staff member for registration once we were inside and settled. I was struck by the disparity between his public image and those 15 minutes.
Shortly after the '04 Series, I ducked into a roadside tavern, the "Home Club" in Hinsdale, MA (next to Dan's hometown, Dalton). Dan was the only patron in the place, sitting at the bar, gazing up at the whatever college football game was on the muted tv that afternoon while the juke box auto-played country songs. When I sat next to him, leaving one empty seat between us, he looked over with a nod and smile. Got the impression that he was feeling wistful as a Sports Illustrated commercial touted their 2004 WS Champions package so I leaned over and told him I thought a big part of that was his.

We chatted, just he and I, for about an hour and a half - although it seemed like 20 minutes to me. Total class act: Not bitter, not braggart. Rather, satisfied knowing what he had done contributed.
 

daltonsoxfan

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Jul 31, 2006
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Regarding Duquette's entry into the Red Sox HOF it just may be that he was one of the best GMs of his time - consider for a moment that he traded for Pedro not once but twice as a GM. I guess I'm a little prejudiced since I'm from his home town, played a lot of ball with his older cousins, and had his father as one of my high school teachers.
 

threecy

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Nah, it was just 1987. Everyone was hitting home runs that year.
After generally being slotted in the 1st or second spot for most of his career, Boggs was chomping at the bit to get into the 3rd spot prior to the season (after he had signed a 3 year contract). There were implications that he didn't have enough power to be in the 3rd spot, but he persisted.

Mac ended up moving him to the 3rd spot when the Sox started the season in a tailspin. On the season, 20 of his home runs ended up coming when he was in the 3rd spot.
July 1987 article:
27350
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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After generally being slotted in the 1st or second spot for most of his career, Boggs was chomping at the bit to get into the 3rd spot prior to the season (after he had signed a 3 year contract). There were implications that he didn't have enough power to be in the 3rd spot, but he persisted.

Mac ended up moving him to the 3rd spot when the Sox started the season in a tailspin. On the season, 20 of his home runs ended up coming when he was in the 3rd spot.
July 1987 article:
View attachment 27350
I recall a big reason he was eager to hit 3rd is that he got a lot of flack for his patient approach...moronic takes on his occasionally working the walk instead of putting the ball in play and driving in runs, etc. Great attributes for a lead off hitter, but a segment of the media and fanbase (and management, quite frankly) refused to appreciate him for what he was. It was a juiced ball year, but 1987 was certainly a statement from him that he could be that guy too (career high in RBI). Despite that, he went back to being the lead off hitter more than he hit 3rd for the rest of his time in Boston.
 

stepson_and_toe

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Were you aware that Ty Cobb once held the record for most total bases in one game (16)? That he was tied for the most home runs in one game (3)? That the following day he set a record for the most home runs hit in two consecutive games (5)?

This happened May 5-6, 1925, when he was 38-years-old and had hit a total of 95 HR in the previous 20 seasons. The Tigers were off to a 4-14 start and Cobb supposedly told a reporter in the dugout prior to the game, "I'll show you something today. I'm going for home runs for the first time in my career." He didn't hit another until June 2nd and finished the season with 12.

Wade Boggs hit out of the 1st and 2nd spots in the lineup in 1986 with HR for the year. In 1987, he began the season batting leadoff for the first 25 games, hitting 4 HR, then hit another 20 after he was moved to the 3rd spot, replacing Bill Buckner (.544 OPS at that point). He began the 1988 season batting 3rd but only hit one HR in 42 games and was moved mostly (91 games) back to the leadoff spot.

My recollection of Boggs is that he hit home runs during batting practice but was more comfortable with his regular style.
 

Montana Fan

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Speaking of Boggs, I was perusing some old stats from the Bristol Red Sox recently and in 414 PA, Boggs slashed 311/400/370 in 1978 for the BriSox. That earned him a return engagement to Bristol in 1979. In 476 PA, he slashed 325/420/377. Unbelievably, it took him 2 more full ml seasons in Patwtucket before he made the breakthrough to the bigs in 1982.
 

Plympton91

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Dinneen, of course, is referenced in the Dropkick Murphys' Tessie:
Tessie is the Royal Rooters rally cry
Tessie is the tune they always sung
Tessie echoed April through October nights
After serenading Stahl, Dinneen and Young.
Thank you! Now I can actually sing that lyric instead of just going “After serrrrrnnngggiing sssssaaadddddeeenng.”
 

Plympton91

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Speaking of Boggs, I was perusing some old stats from the Bristol Red Sox recently and in 414 PA, Boggs slashed 311/400/370 in 1978 for the BriSox. That earned him a return engagement to Bristol in 1979. In 476 PA, he slashed 325/420/377. Unbelievably, it took him 2 more full ml seasons in Patwtucket before he made the breakthrough to the bigs in 1982.
It’s not like the Red Sox needed a 3B in 1978. They had Butch Hobson and Jack Brohammer after all. Hobson hit .250/.312/.408 with 43 (FORTY-THREE) errors. Brohammer took over down the stretch in order to spare fans behind first base and put the finishing touches on his stellar .234 / .300 / .311 season.
 

lexrageorge

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It’s not like the Red Sox needed a 3B in 1978. They had Butch Hobson and Jack Brohammer after all. Hobson hit .250/.312/.408 with 43 (FORTY-THREE) errors. Brohammer took over down the stretch in order to spare fans behind first base and put the finishing touches on his stellar .234 / .300 / .311 season.
It's unlikely that a 20 year old Boggs would have been much better in 1978 than either one. Hobson hit 30 home runs and posted a 0.789 OPS the prior season, and was doing OK the first half of the season (15 HR's through June 29th) until his elbow blew out. And even Brohamer (only 1 "m", btw) posted a 0.769 OPS the first half of the 1978 season.

Boggs' fielding was definitely a work in progress at that time as well. There were problems with the way the 1978 roster was managed; Wade Boggs being in AA wasn't one of them. Now, his staying in the minors through 1982 is a different story.
 

Martin and Woods

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Speaking of Boggs, I was perusing some old stats from the Bristol Red Sox recently and in 414 PA, Boggs slashed 311/400/370 in 1978 for the BriSox. That earned him a return engagement to Bristol in 1979. In 476 PA, he slashed 325/420/377. Unbelievably, it took him 2 more full ml seasons in Patwtucket before he made the breakthrough to the bigs in 1982.
By the end of 1980, the Sox had had enough of Hobson, so they traded him with Burleson to the Angels for Carney Lansford, Rick Miller, and Mark Clear. Lansford's hitting in 1981 & 1982 (.336/.389/.439/.828 with a batting title & .301/.359/.444/.803) is what kept Boggs in the minors longer than he should've been. By then, the Sox were ready to bring the kid up, so they moved Lansford, Garry Hancock, and Jerry King to Oakland for Tony Armas and Jeff Newman. Both trades worked out very nicely!
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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By the end of 1980, the Sox had had enough of Hobson, so they traded him with Burleson to the Angels for Carney Lansford, Rick Miller, and Mark Clear. Lansford's hitting in 1981 & 1982 (.336/.389/.439/.828 with a batting title & .301/.359/.444/.803) is what kept Boggs in the minors longer than he should've been. By then, the Sox were ready to bring the kid up, so they moved Lansford, Garry Hancock, and Jerry King to Oakland for Tony Armas and Jeff Newman. Both trades worked out very nicely!
Meanwhile they were giving the bulk of 1B playing time to old man Tony Perez and Dave Stapleton. It didn't have to take until the second half of the 1982 season to find a way to get Boggs into the lineup every day (mostly at 1B, including 35 straight starts there to end the season).
 

LoweTek

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Even though I was 12 at the time, I remember being at my grandmother's house, watching that game and wondering why the Red Sox couldn't get players like that. For a while Raines, was otherworldly.
Raines grew up in the next town over from me. I ran into his mother during his free agency (1993 when he stayed with the White Sox). I asked her if Raines would consider the Red Sox. She was quick to answer and very direct. She said he wouldn't go to Boston because of the history of race issues, to answer your question. I'm sure he's not the only great player the Red Sox missed out on for this reason.
 

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Raines grew up in the next town over from me. I ran into his mother during his free agency (1993 when he stayed with the White Sox). I asked her if Raines would consider the Red Sox. She was quick to answer and very direct. She said he wouldn't go to Boston because of the history of race issues, to answer your question. I'm sure he's not the only great player the Red Sox missed out on for this reason.
That's not surprising, but it makes me sad.