Manchester United 2014-2015: Van Gaal's Insane Speech at the end of the awards

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,398
Falmouth
teddykgb said:
Well he's a MUFC youth, which means you need to pick the greatest player in the history of the game at his position and say he's the next version of him.
A given, I was just curious of his style.
 
 
blueguitar322 said:
League 1 team waiting for United if they win the replay
Can't wait for the rational reaction from the Liverpool contingency. 
 

PedroSpecialK

Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2004
27,196
Cambridge, MA
Liverpool just played against a squad that started Eidur Guðjohnsen and Emile Heskey up top - and managed a replay. At home.
 
I'd hope we have some modicum of self-awareness
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
I just finished watching Life of Ryan:Caretaker Manager, which is on Netflix.  It follows Ryan Giggs' four games as Manchester United manager.  It was pretty interesting to see some of the behind the scenes that goes on at the club and the access allowed was the best I've ever seen.  It gets a bit sappy towards the end but if you're a fan of the Premier League I think you'll enjoy it.
 
 
 
Class of 92 later in the week.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,398
Falmouth
Z-
 
Do you feel like Van Gaal has a clear plan in place? Still seems like a lot of guys not quite playing the right positions and thus not particularly good football. I don't mind the long ball style, we're not talking about late 80s hoofball here, but no one really looks on the same page (except DeGea).
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
If he has a clear plan in place I know fuck all about it.  I've been trying to figure it out myself.  Before coaching the Dutch national team he was all about 4-3-3, then because of the lack of quality in their center backs he switched to 3-5-2, now at United it seems like he's settled on the 4-1-2-1-2.  I don't mind the formation but like you I can't see the logic in some of the positions. 
 
I think Rooney is at his absolute best playing as a number 10, so at the top of the diamond.  However if he's going to play Di Maria there then Rooney shouldn't be a holding midfielder, he should be one of the strikers.  He did a fine job the other day, but it seems like his versatility is a hindrance.  Falcao or RVP need to be dropped.  Everyone is on Falcao for not producing, and rightly so, but RVP has been pretty poor as well.  The problem that I see is they both flourished as a single striker, or playing with a creative second striker behind them.  I just don't think they can play together.  If Rooney was the other striker, dropping into midfield, then one of their goal tallys would surely rise.
 
I also don't understand the situation with Ander Herrera, who has impressed me in almost every game he's played in this season except for the one bad half he had when he came back from a broken rib.  When fully fit, I still think our best front 6 is:
 
---------------Blind (or Carrick)------------------
-----Di Maria--------------------Herrera----------
----------------------Mata--------------------------
-----------Rooney---------RVP or Falcao-------
 
 
Or have Rooney play in the 10 role and bring in James Wilson.  That may be harsh on Fellaini, who has played very well this season, but he can certainly be useful as a sub.
 
The problem is, next season could see another squad turnover.  My hope is if we qualify for Champions League and Van Gaal has a full summer to work, we can bring in some quality players.  The only definites that will be in the starting 11 next season (based on this season's play) are De Gea, Shaw, Rojo (maybe), Di Maria, and Rooney.  That's 6 positions available that they could honestly go either way with.  Do they make Falcao's loan permanent?  (not at 43 million pounds)  Do they extend RVP?  I would think bringing in a quality centerback (or two) and a midfielder is the priority but wouldn't be surprised if both Falcao and RVP leave and he brings in another striker (Lacazette would do nicely). 
 
The other thing is he's tinkered with formations so much this year.  By my count we've played 3-5-2, 4-1-2-1-2, 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, and 4-3-3.  So I don't really know how he plans on lining up the team for next season if they qualify for the Champions League. Its a pretty interesting time.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,945
LVG has been playing Di Maria as the #10, but that doesn't make any sense to me.  His best attribute is his pace and dribbling, but being played in the center takes a lot of that away.  He should be given a freer role on one of the wings.  You could then play Mata on the other side as an inverted player (he played this way at Chelsea a lot), where he can come inside to shoot and also help make up the numbers in midfield if necessary.  I would do something like this (not that dissimilar from Zomp):
 
 
---------------Blind------[SIZE=13.3333339691162px]Herrera[/SIZE]-------
[SIZE=13.3333339691162px]-----Mata[/SIZE][SIZE=13.3333339691162px]-------Rooney--------[/SIZE][SIZE=13.3333339691162px]Di Maria[/SIZE][SIZE=13.3333339691162px]----------[/SIZE]
------------RVP (or Falcao)-------[SIZE=13.3333339691162px]----[/SIZE]
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,657
Philadelphia
For me, all their problems start with the attempt to play RVP and Falcao in the same team when they are the same player that wants to occupy the same central space. That creates this whole cascade of shit: Narrow formations without a lot of movement into the channels of upfront, Rooney as a midfielder, Di Maria poorly utilized, etc. I just can't figure out why he keeps doing it. There is part of me that wonders whether people at the club are scared that benching Falcao or relegating him to a bit role would piss off Mendes, who seems to have a ton of influence/leverage at the club recently (especially given that he is also De Gea's agent). Its hard to see a guy like LVG standing for that kind of meddling in his team selection. But these behind-the-scenes arrangements between clubs and superagents are always very shady in football and you really never know.

The end result is that they may scrape Top 4, which is the most important thing admittedly, but, for all the talk of his "philosophy," I don't see LVG currently building a longer term foundation of cohesive attacking team play, in the same way that he did at Bayern. Right now they are just scraping results through massive talent advantage over most clubs, De Gea playing out of this world, and playing high balls to Fellaini when they get desperate.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
There is part of me that wonders whether people at the club are scared that benching Falcao or relegating him to a bit role would piss off Mendes, who seems to have a ton of influence/leverage at the club recently (especially given that he is also De Gea's agent).
 
 
This is also a good point.  Add to that the great relationship RVP and Van Gaal seem to have and its hard to see which one he'd bench.  I'd like to see Falco given a run of games paired next to Rooney before judging on who is the better striker for the team. 
 
Next season in defense I think they'll go with De Gea, a new right back (or Paddy McNair), a new central defender, Rojo, and Shaw.  After that who the hell knows. 
 
Could be:
 
 
-----------New midfielder------------
------Hererra--------Rooney---------
Di Maria--New Striker-------Januzaj or new winger
 
Or Falcao or RVP in the striker position.  OR have Rooney up top, put Blind in the midfield.  OR if he's not confident in Herrera have Mata with Blind and a new midfielder.
 
There are so many options and the one thing he's done this year is tinker so much that I have no idea what his preference is.
 

blueguitar322

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
1,107
It seems to me that Arsenal and United have a lot of similar problems this year.  Lack of defensive depth (at least until recently for Arsenal), lack of a go-to defensive midfielder (though Blind and Coquelin are both decent fill-ins), and almost too much attacking talent with the exact same strengths (wingers and strikers at United, creative attacking midfield at Arsenal) not to mention serious injury issues.  
 
Falcao, RVP, Rooney, Di Maria, and Mata (and maybe Januzaj) would all start for almost any other teams in England outside City and Chelsea, as would Ozil, Cazorla, and Wilshere.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
The corpse of RVP is out for at least 2 weeks.  Could be a blessing in disguise.
 
Will Rooney play up front on his own with Mata or Fellaini behind him?  Or does LVG roll out Rooney and Falcao together?  If its me I go
 
 
------------Blind--------------Fellaini--------------
Herrera---------Mata-------------------Di Maria--
-------------------Rooney---------------------------
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
Just purchased tickets to United v Villa at Old Trafford.  The game was sold out but something tells me the Arsenal loss had members return their tickets. 
 
Maybe they'll let me give the pre-match talk to the squad.
 

moly99

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 28, 2007
939
Seattle
Falcao in Man-U's U-21 team . . . and struggling against teenagers. On twice the wages as the entire LA Galaxy or Seattle Sounders squads. Yikes.
 

EP Sox Fan

Member
SoSH Member
Zomp said:
Just purchased tickets to United v Villa at Old Trafford.  The game was sold out but something tells me the Arsenal loss had members return their tickets. 
 
Maybe they'll let me give the pre-match talk to the squad.
 
Enjoy that. Watching a game at Old Trafford is on my bucket list.
 
This team is so hard to watch right now. The direct long balls to Fellaini seem so desparate and he is hard to watch in the attacking third. I can't help but to think that the better attacking line up has Rooney at striker and Mata at the No. 10. Or a 4-4-2 diamond with Rooney and Falcao up top and Mata at the 10.  So much attaching firepower on this roster and we get the defensive possession based tactics with absolutely no creativity in the attacking third. Brutal.
 

Bailey10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 6, 2013
411
Di Maria has to be riding the pine for the Liverpool match.
 
His left foot just can't compete with the clinical Fellaini or the dreamy Mr Mata 
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,657
Philadelphia
United are 5-0-2 in games that Di Maria hasn't played this season, and that group includes their best two performances of the season (today and the 3-0 v Liverpool), as well as winning at Soton, drawing at Spurs (a game they played well), a draw and win against Stoke (not bad), and a win against Toon.
 
I think he's a fantastic player and would be loathe to drop him but that pattern is interesting to say the least.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
I'm not really sure what to do.  I liked the set up of the team yesterday and Fellaini deserves to play after a few of his performances, but at the same time in a cauldron atmosphere like Anfield I'm not sure if he's the right player to trot out there.
 
We'll see what Mr Philosophy has in store for us.
 

blueguitar322

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
1,107
Something seems to be working with the Fellaini and Rooney partnership.  Both are able to bring down and control long passes very well, and that additional threat seems to give United good options to relieve pressure on their back 4/5.  
 
Had United's pressing tempo changed over the last two games?  I get that Arsenal and Spurs are better than average opponents and those games lend themselves to that extra edge, but United played at a much faster pace in both games than many others I've watched.
 

Bailey10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 6, 2013
411
I think who plays between Mata, Di Maria, and Fellaini is actually not the most important issue.
 
Playing Carrick in the midfield and Blind at left back produced the best play I've seen all season. Controlled and spaced out our midfield in a way that has been severely lacking. Blind also combined beautifully with Young on the left for several overlaps, which resulted in some dangerous crosses being put in.
 
If Carrick and Herrera are the starting CMs, I see LVG playing Fellaini to add some more physicality and cram the center of the park to combat Henderson and co.
 
That means the decision between Di Maria and Mata comes down to whether you want someone who combined very well with the likes of Herrera and interchanged well with the midfielders (Mata) in the last match to create some very pretty football or someone who is a bit more athletic, more able tracking back and capable of moments of brilliance (Di Maria).
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
IMO Rooney can play with anyone.  His strike partners have been Van Nistelrooy, Luis Saha, Carlos Tevez, C Ronaldo, Berbatov, Chicharito, RVP and now Fellaini and he's done a great job with each.  In a way I think his versatility hampers his goal tally but he always puts in a shift for the team.
 
I agree with the pressing and the tempo may have changed...not sure.  Someone posted in the gamethread about how United don't exactly have players who are good at pressing.  But I actually think in Young and Rooney they have exactly that.
 
 
Bailey, agreed completely on Carrick being in there.  If Shaw and/or Rojo are healthy, I also could see a true 4-3-3 with Blind, Carrick, and Herrera in the midfield but if that's the case I think you have to go with Di Maria instead of Mata.
 
Glad to see Herrera playing so well though.
 

Bailey10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 6, 2013
411
Manchester United team to face Liverpool: De Gea; Valencia, Jones, Smalling, Blind; Carrick, Herrera; Mata, Fellaini, Young; Rooney.
 
 
Di Maria on the bench and I'm fine with it. Considering how we played against Spurs, LVG is actually making sense for once with a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach.
 

Turrable

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2011
2,670
I'm really unimpressed with Di Maria. This isn't college ball, you have to learn get two feet inbounds on sideline catches.
 

PedroSpecialK

Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2004
27,196
Cambridge, MA
Herrera's been great in '15, but I'm not sure how cherry-picking one stat from each of those other players demonstrates it.
 
I'd be surprised if anyone in midfield had fewer tackles won per game than Gerrard, for instance.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
You expect me not to post a cool graphic of my new binky after I've been begging him to play and then see him score 2 goals in person?
 
I don't care if it shows that he's won more balls in the air this year than Tim Cahill in the Premier League.  He's awesome.
 

WayBackVazquez

white knight against high school nookie
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,294
Los Angeles
Zomp said:
You expect me not to post a cool graphic of my new binky after I've been begging him to play and then see him score 2 goals in person?
So how about a trip report? Specifically Old Trafford, but feel free to include details of any noteworthy Nils/Fookin Cop interaction.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
It was a fantastic time.  We landed on Friday around 1pm and took the train to our hotel.  A quick taxi ride over to the stadium and we went on our pre-booked museum and stadium tour.  The museum is really nice.  It has huge exhibits on the Munich Disaster, George Best, the Class of 92, and the 99 Treble. It has smaller exhibits on the history of the club's shirt and a nice hallway of signed international kits from ex-players.
 
The stadium tour takes you to different seats around the ground as well as in a luxury suite, the press room, the executive offices, and the player's locker room.  The culmination of the tour is having you line up as a team and walking through the tunnel onto the pitch with simulated crowd noise piping through.  Sure, its corny but I ate it up.
 
We went to Rusholme street that night and enjoyed one of the best curries I've had.  The stuff in the states just doesn't compare.
 
The day of the game we went to the Arndale shopping plaza and my wife went nuts (its cool...she did come with me to a game after all) buying things then we went back to the room for a quick change and out to the stadium.  I had my tickets at Will Call but didn't know where the office was.  We went into a building labeled reception but it was obvious when we entered we were in the wrong building.  On the way out I noticed Alan Keegan (Stadium announcer for over 20 years) and asked to take a picture with him.  He was very nice.  Asked where we were from and our names. 
 
We entered the stadium and got down to pitch side to watch the players warm up.  I took a picture with Bryan Robson and was very content to just soak in everything.  A little while later, Alan Keegan walks by us again and says "Hey its Megan and Anthony XXX from Rhode Island!".  After he announced the teams he came over to us and we spoke for about 15 minutes.  He was curious how we got tickets and asked us a few questions about America.  We actually swapped info because United is coming to America this summer.  He said he'd love to meet up for a drink in the states if we go to any of the games.  Very nice guy.
 
The game was great.  Our seats were in 239, right next to the Villa fans.  It was a very enjoyable experience and one I'd love to try and do once every few years.  Manchester is a funky city with some great neighborhoods.  The women didn't compare to those I saw in Rome but then again they had no chance.  :)
 

WayBackVazquez

white knight against high school nookie
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,294
Los Angeles
Wow, sounds like a fantastic experience. I regret that I didn't take the tour at Anfield, but my wife also enjoyed the experience, so I think we'll get another crack it, too. Glad you had a good trip. But sorry about the match result. ;)
 

blueguitar322

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
1,107
Zomp said:
The culmination of the tour is having you line up as a team and walking through the tunnel onto the pitch with simulated crowd noise piping through.  Sure, its corny but I ate it up.
No shame in that.  Sounds incredible.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,425
Chelmsford, MA
Zomp said:
 
 Manchester is a funky city with some great neighborhoods.  The women didn't compare to those I saw in Rome but then again they had no chance.  :)
 
The first sentence is very true.  Tons of character in that city.  The 2nd sentence is possibly the understatement of the century.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
A few people have commented that Rooney was very quiet during the match with City.  Gary Neville gave an interview yesterday saying he thinks it was on purpose that he was staying so far up the pitch to stretch City's centerbacks and give Fellaini and Herrera space to operate.  We're so used to seeing Rooney drop into midfield when playing up front so it will take a while to get used to seeing him stay up front if that is the way going forward.  It makes sense.
 
 
Also, I read two books on my way home from Europe.  The first was Sir Alex's second book.  There were a few interesting chapters.  I wasn't really that interested in his early life but his United chapters were pretty good.  He has separate chapters on Ronaldo, Rooney, Keane, Rio, and added a few after David Moyes left the club.  You can tell he loves Ronaldo and Rio by the way he gushes about them, and you almost get the sense he held back on Rooney a little bit because he's still playing for the club.  There is no love between him and Keane though.
 
I also read Tactics From The Secret Footballer.  In reality, maybe a quarter of the book was dedicated to tactics.  But more interesting to me was the other stuff.  Nutrition, training, sponsorship deals, etc...  Highly recommended.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
I don't think he was hurt.  Once he puts Falcao in though he really doesn't have a choice.  I don't think you can sub Blind or Herrerra there because you'd then have difficulty getting the ball back.  The choice comes down to Young or Mata and I think he wanted pace.
 
The Falcao substitution was baffling though.  I would have subbed Fellaini off for Di Maria and put Mata in the middle of the park behind Rooney.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
A bit of good (great!) news after a few shitty weeks.
 
Memphis Depay to United is official!
 
He's having an incredible season in the Eredivisie and seemed to be on a few clubs radar.  Hopefully he's half as good as our other signings from PSV (Ruud and Staam).
 
By my count that gives us Depay, Rooney, Mata, Di Maria, Young, Falcao, Van Persie, and Wilson for the front 3 spots.  A clear out could be coming...but its always nice to see business done early.  Hopefully its a statement of intent.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,657
Philadelphia
Good transfer. Adding another winger that can beat a man and score goals seems like a big need and he's a great prospect in that respect.

It's harsh on Young given his surprising contributions this year but that spot needed to be improved. Depay may or may not reach the necessary level but Young certainly isn't the guy to build on going forward.

Add Januzaj to the list of front three players. Plus Nani and Chicharito if they come back.
 

Zomp

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Aug 28, 2006
13,975
The Slums of Shaolin
I've done a 180 on Young this year but you're right.  For a team with the aspirations of United, Ashley Young starting is not good enough.
 
I'd expect Nani and Chicharito to leave, and Januzaj to go on loan.  Hopefully this signing is a wake up call to him though as Depay is only a year older.
 

DLew On Roids

guilty of being sex
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 30, 2001
13,906
The Pine Street Inn
I guess I should be disappointed, but at the reported 130K/week, it wouldn't have been smart for Liverpool to pay the wages that Man U have elected to.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,657
Philadelphia
DLew On Roids said:
I guess I should be disappointed, but at the reported 130K/week, it wouldn't have been smart for Liverpool to pay the wages that Man U have elected to.
 
If true, that is a metric fuckton of cash for a 21-year-old who might be extremely talented but has yet to really prove much against top competition.
 
As far as I can tell, these are the only Premier League players on more:
 
Ozil
Sanchez
Mata
Di Maria
Rooney
RVP
Falcao
Aguero
Toure
Silva
Gerrard
Sturridge
Terry
Fabregas
Hazard
Costa
Adebayor
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
22,657
Philadelphia

Marca says De Gea has agreed terms with Madrid and is good as gone.  They're prone to bullshit, but LVG also seems to confirm.
 
This seemed to be one of those "worst kept secrets in football" situations, like Lewandowski to Bayern a few years back, but its still notable that everybody now seems to be acknowledging what is happening.
 
I have no doubt that United will be willing to step up and splash some money on another very good keeper.
 

Billy R Ford

douchebag q momfingerer
SoSH Member
Feb 10, 2010
876
Northeastern
They should just go with Valdes imo. Assuming the goal for next season is to challenge for the title/holding onto top four, the money would be better spent elsewhere to improve the squad.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.