Managing Carousel 2019

jon abbey

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That means 4 of the top 6 in most managerial wins (current) have all lost their jobs/retired going into next season.

"With Bochy (2,003 wins) retiring and Hurdle (1,269) and Maddon (1,252) dismissed today, Francona is the active leader in managing wins at 1,667 and the drop to No. 2 is now Bob Melvin at 1,224. Next is Yost (1,202), who also is retiring."
 

nattysez

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I don't think Bochy is permanently retiring, FWIW. There are a lot of mutterings that he could take the Padres job or rest up for a year or two and then come back. I think his retirement is mainly a function of Zaidi wanting to bring in his own guy.
 

sean1562

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everyone on reddit seems to think maddon is destined for san diego, and I could see how that could work out over there as well. the padres job has to be one of the more appealing gigs right now, no?
 

Ale Xander

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everyone on reddit seems to think maddon is destined for san diego, and I could see how that could work out over there as well. the padres job has to be one of the more appealing gigs right now, no?
Any job in San Diego is appealing.
 

jon abbey

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SD does have a ton of young talent although only Tatis and Paddack have really broken through so far, but the Hosmer and Myers deals are boulders. Hosmer's is through 2025! That is about $32M combined through 2022 for a team that has only once run a 9 figure payroll and that was 2015. Clearly with the Machado deal they know they need to spend more, but how high will they go?

Not sure what I think of Maddon, I was a big fan of his in TB but now I wonder how much of that was Friedman and the front office behind him. If they are offering, he should take the Angels job, the team he spent the first 31 years of his baseball career with. Trout, Ohtani, Adell, maybe Cole, now that's something to build around...
 

VORP Speed

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Not sure what I think of Maddon, I was a big fan of his in TB but now I wonder how much of that was Friedman and the front office behind him. If they are offering, he should take the Angels job, the team he spent the first 31 years of his baseball career with. Trout, Ohtani, Adell, maybe Cole, now that's something to build around...
It was the front office. Maddon’s greatest skill was his willingness to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous not-by-the-book thinking.
 

jon abbey

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It probably doesn't matter, but poor Joe Girardi desperately wants one of these open jobs and Fox has paired him with the quite stupid AJ Pierzynski, which I think is making Girardi (who I generally love to listen to) sound dumber at a time when I'm sure many GMs are watching and listening. If I were Girardi, I would beg my bosses for a different pairing before the next game.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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It probably doesn't matter, but poor Joe Girardi desperately wants one of these open jobs and Fox has paired him with the quite stupid AJ Pierzynski, which I think is making Girardi (who I generally love to listen to) sound dumber at a time when I'm sure many GMs are watching and listening. If I were Girardi, I would beg my bosses for a different pairing before the next game.
He’s going to be with Jim Kaat for Game 3.
 

InsideTheParker

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It probably doesn't matter, but poor Joe Girardi desperately wants one of these open jobs and Fox has paired him with the quite stupid AJ Pierzynski, which I think is making Girardi (who I generally love to listen to) sound dumber at a time when I'm sure many GMs are watching and listening. If I were Girardi, I would beg my bosses for a different pairing before the next game.
I like Girardi as a analyst, but his English grammar is as bad as Eck's. It's such a difference when someone like A.J.Hinch speaks. Anyway, any thoughts on whether he'd prefer Cubs or Mets?
 

jon abbey

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I like Girardi as a analyst, but his English grammar is as bad as Eck's. It's such a difference when someone like A.J.Hinch speaks.
Hmm, I never noticed (or was bothered?) by that. He is a very smart guy, he went to Northwestern and has a degree in industrial engineering (not that I think formal education has much to do with actual intelligence, but still). Did you just notice this in yesterday's game or do you notice it whenever you hear Girardi, because he was honestly coming across dumber by far than I've ever heard him last night? Like I said, I blame Pierzynski, or maybe Harold Reynolds at MLBN is rubbing off on him, or maybe the game is starting to pass him by (it definitely seemed like this at moments last night too).
 

InsideTheParker

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Hmm, I never noticed (or was bothered?) by that. He is a very smart guy, he went to Northwestern and has a degree in industrial engineering (not that I think formal education has much to do with actual intelligence, but still). Did you just notice this in yesterday's game or do you notice it whenever you hear Girardi, because he was honestly coming across dumber by far than I've ever heard him last night? Like I said, I blame Pierzynski, or maybe Harold Reynolds at MLBN is rubbing off on him, or maybe the game is starting to pass him by (it definitely seemed like this at moments last night too).
I noticed last night that he more than once said "would have went" or the equivalent. Having been an English teacher a long time ago, I find that sort of thing rubs me the wrong way. I haven't listened to Girardi speak that often, but I have also noticed grammar errors in his MLBN appearances. It was my husband who pointed out how articulate Hinch is in comparison with most other sports guys.
More important: do you have an opinion on whether or not he prefers Cubs or Mets?
 

jon abbey

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More important: do you have an opinion on whether or not he prefers Cubs or Mets?
I think if it was up to him, he would probably go Cubs, he has history with the franchise plus a way smarter GM (although Theo hasn't covered himself in glory the last few years), but I don't think the Cubs will want him as they seem like they're leaning towards the trend of younger, more malleable managers (David Ross the current fave there). Girardi would be a good fit for the Mets, huge upgrade on Callaway and there is a ton of talent on that team.
 

sean1562

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what would yankees fans think of him if he went to the Mets? Is he generally well regarded in the fandom? I have two friends who are Yanks fans and they dont seem to hold him in high regard
 

jon abbey

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what would yankees fans think of him if he went to the Mets? Is he generally well regarded in the fandom? I have two friends who are Yanks fans and they dont seem to hold him in high regard
I don't speak for any Yankee fans except myself, but not sure how you can be mad at someone for taking a competing job when the team fired him 2+ years ago. Personally I really wanted NYY to hire him when they did, Torre had clearly run his course, and I thought he did a good job when with NY, but I understand better and better why NY moved on, as Boone better fits the concept of a modern manager (always in a good mood and happy to answer media questions, no matter how dumb and repetitive they are, very happy to take whatever research input the front office gives him without pushing back) and it's worked out very well for NY, albeit with a bit of a learning curve for a rookie manager over the first year and a third or so (I think Boone has been a lot better since June or so).
 

DanoooME

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Hmm, I never noticed (or was bothered?) by that. He is a very smart guy, he went to Northwestern and has a degree in industrial engineering (not that I think formal education has much to do with actual intelligence, but still). Did you just notice this in yesterday's game or do you notice it whenever you hear Girardi, because he was honestly coming across dumber by far than I've ever heard him last night? Like I said, I blame Pierzynski, or maybe Harold Reynolds at MLBN is rubbing off on him, or maybe the game is starting to pass him by (it definitely seemed like this at moments last night too).
I blame Reynolds. To me, the best studio team MLBN has right now is Amsinger, Pedro and Girardi. Anything with Reynolds turns to crap no matter who the other analysts are.
 

jon abbey

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It's not, but also it barely matters. He's not an English professor (obviously, heh), he's a baseball manager talking about baseball.
 

Ford Frick's Asterisk

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I find Girardi surprisingly good in the booth... I think it would normally be the PBP guy's job, but Girardi seems to be the one managing the 3-man booth, keeping everyone involved without talking over each other, drawing analysis out of Pierzynski (even if it's bad). I haven't really noticed the grammar, but then I've been forced to listen to Rick Manning call Indians games for 30+ years – bland personality, no real insight and says "I seen" at least 100 times per season.
 

jon abbey

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Showalter announced the final three regular season Yankee games for YES, and while he is a smart guy and was very insightful at times, he was already constantly repeating himself after just a game or two and seemed determinedly old school at times. I would never hire him if I was a GM in today's game, Maddon will get a job (almost certainly the Angels), Girardi will probably get a job (although if the Mets pick someone else, he might not either), but other older managers I think will be passed over, it's a different managerial era now.

Anyway, another reason not to have signed Machado.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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At what point do managers who have failed to do anything with multiple franchises over the course of their managerial careers get put out to pasture in favor of younger models? To my knowledge, other than a brief period with Baltimore, Showalter's teams have never amounted to much over the years. With the major influx of so many Latinx talents (which, yes, I know Machado is Latino as well) over the last decade and more, as well as guys like Ohtani, does an old white "baseball" guy make the most sense as the manager of a team trying to step forward into the future? It would be one thing if he had led a few winning teams, even if he didn't have the hardware to show for it, but his Baltimore run was mostly inconsequential, as was his time with Texas. Even the Yankees didn't really start doing stuff until after he was replaced by Torre. I just fail to see the appeal.
 

jon abbey

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At what point do managers who have failed to do anything with multiple franchises over the course of their managerial careers get put out to pasture in favor of younger models?
They mostly have and are, even Girardi has yet to be rehired again and he is one of the best of the older bunch. Hinch, Cora, Boone, Roberts, this is the kind of manager most smart franchises have been hiring and will continue to do so.
 

E5 Yaz

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At what point do managers who have failed to do anything with multiple franchises over the course of their managerial careers get put out to pasture in favor of younger models? ... Even the Yankees didn't really start doing stuff until after he was replaced by Torre. I just fail to see the appeal.
Joe Torre had managed and failed with three teams before he got the Yankees gig. So, your example doesn't really fortify your point.

As for Showalter, you're right that his career overall is more reputation than performance. He's .506 for his career, and if not for a 100-win season with Arizona, would be under .500
 

E5 Yaz

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So, we're at ... unless I'm missing one

Angels
Cubs
Giants
Mets
Padres
Phillies
Pirates
Royals
 
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jon abbey

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This is pretty interesting, on Girardi:

"Consider this text from a smart former Yankee that came in, unsolicited, after we reported on Girardi yesterday:

"I've always liked him, and hated the reason he got fired in New York. Listening to him do [the Rays-Astros series on FOX], he's got 'smartest guy in the room' syndrome. He never lets his color partner [A.J. Pierzynski or Jim Kaat] have the last word. Always has to go over the top of them, often with something not very enlightening.

"When he called for the [Willy] Adames stolen base and A.J. said he wouldn't send him, and Adames got thrown out by ten feet, he wouldn't let it go. Can't admit when he's wrong. A 'smartest guy in the room' manager is miserable for players and coaches. You feel like you're always being talked down to.

"That got [Jeff] Bannister, [Clint] Hurdle and [Andy] Green. They all talk the same. They lose the clubhouse and maybe some coaches being that way."

The Mets need a manager who is comfortable with his GM's regular presence in the clubhouse and manager's office. A person who can accept strong suggestions on the lineup from the analytics department. In short, a person who does not believe himself to be the smartest guy in the room, but a part of a collaborative management team.

Some Yankees officials liked working with Girardi, while others found it more challenging. Such is the complex nature of human interaction in any workplace. He's a good person who excels in some areas and struggles in others -- a description that represents the best most of us can aspire to be."

 

BoSox Rule

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Roberts is returning according to according the LA times. My original post said the Dodgers announced it but I was wrong, I saw the article.
 
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