Man City banned from Champions League for next two seasons

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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If the ruling stands, I absolutely expect Pep to leave. He has been looking bored already.

I also wonder about the players. A guy like KDB will be 29 in the summer and probably realistically has 2-3 more seasons of elite play left in his career at most. Does he want to spend that time trying to win again the trophies he has already won multiple times?
 

SoxFanInCali

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Well, judging by Chelsea's transfer ban being in place during their appeal, I'm guessing that it will hold at least for next season unless they can win their appeal before the competition begins.
 

Mooch

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Hey Rob Manfred? THIS is how you punish a team for cheating.
 

Kliq

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Until CL play begins and City isn't in it, I won't really believe this will hold. But yeah, this could have huge ramifications on soccer around Europe, with a purge of talent likely possible.
 

scott bankheadcase

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Does England keep 4 spots and have the 5th place team go? Or does the fact that City finishes in the top 4 and is banned mean another spot goes elsewhere?
 

ninjacornelius

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Assuming that the ban is upheld during appeal, and City can't claim the Europa League spot they earned through the EFL cup, then Aston Villa are in prime position to pull a Wigan (win a spot in Europe and get relegated in the same season).
 

Mighty Joe Young

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They will appeal of course .. don't know how long that process is but it has to be a few months ..
One would think, at best an appeal would shorten the penalty to a single season .. so you have to think they are out of the CL in 2020/21 at the very least.

As mentioned - bye bye Pep.

As for the 4 spots - the ruling stands until it is overturned / amended - so City are out right now .. and, if its simply reduced to one year they will still be out.

Guess it all depends on the timing of the appeal

So - good news for Sheffield :)

Also have to think Pep will go all in on the CL this year

edit - as with the Chelsea signing ban, the ruling stands until it is overturned - I don't believe merely lodging an appeal puts it on hold.
 

DJnVa

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And once again fans of American sports conflate clubs with franchises. Manfred quite literally works for the baseball owners.

I think this makes the race for 4th less interesting.
Sure, but it makes the race for 5th more interesting, and there's more teams involved in that.

4th place had 3 teams within 4 points. 5th place has 5 teams.
 

PedroisGod

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Bayern's been doing really well under Hansi Flick, but I do wonder if Pep will end up back at Bayern. Sane was already rumoured to be on his way there after this season too.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Sure, but it makes the race for 5th more interesting, and there's more teams involved in that.
I found the prospect of two out of three big clubs in England joining Arsenal on the sidelines next season fascinating. For Spurs and Chelsea, that could have led to some dramatic moves regarding their rosters (ManU farts out so much cash It’s yet to matter).
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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What are the medium to long term implications of Man City as a super club?

As many have mentioned, Pep is likely to leave in the short term future. I would certainly expect a few players to follow suit if they can't get CL play. It'll be harder to attract incoming talent without Pep and the CL. And possibly even most damaging is that it will limit the spending budget if City is no longer able to circumvent the financial fair play rules.
 

67YAZ

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In general, I am surprised that City got a ban and not just a large monetary fine. At the core of the case, there does seem to be a significant difference in the interpretation of the FFP rules during the initial phase-in period (2010-2012). I didn't think UEFA would go so hard after a mega-club like City over a case that had many technical ambiguities relating to the phase-in rules and the tangled network of Mansour's business operations transferring money around. It just seemed too complex to be the first case where a mega-club got banned.

But the boiling bad blood between the two sides on display the past couple weeks suggested that this would end badly for City. City's lawyers were tearing the other side a new one for leaks and breach confidentiality...it was so contentious that it was clear there's real animosity fueling things now.

IMHO, City should be able to play in the Champions League while the appeal is ongoing. The FFP penalty can be applied any time in the future and be just as painful to City. But if the finding gets thrown out on appeal, City can't get a year back.
 

fletcherpost

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Hmmm, and there were rumors of Pep to Juventus, i just saw it as a sidebar story and never clicked the link. But if i was Juve i'd be all in on trying to get Pep.
 

DJnVa

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Yahoo had a story on this and it said the court hearing the appeal, while they have a history of lowering penalties, do not have a history of wiping out things that potentially cover multiple seasons--so they may lower it from 2 to 1, but their history suggests Man City is at least going to miss next season's UCL.
 

Joe D Reid

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Yahoo had a story on this and it said the court hearing the appeal, while they have a history of lowering penalties, do not have a history of wiping out things that potentially cover multiple seasons--so they may lower it from 2 to 1, but their history suggests Man City is at least going to miss next season's UCL.
Yeah, this. There's obviously no way to know, but I wouldn't be surprised if UEFA went with a two-year ban in part because it gives CAS some room to cut back the penalty but not eliminate it.
 

Ale Xander

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"deliberately misled Uefa so they could meet FFP rules requiring clubs to break even. "

So they lost money and tried to make it seem that they broke even? How does one do this in a multi million dollar poundleague? Why does UEFA care?

What am I missing?

And it would be great if they can bring this rule to MLB and NFL
 

Mighty Joe Young

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"deliberately misled Uefa so they could meet FFP rules requiring clubs to break even. "

So they lost money and tried to make it seem that they broke even? How does one do this in a multi million dollar poundleague? Why does UEFA care?

What am I missing?

And it would be great if they can bring this rule to MLB and NFL
I think the accusation is they inflated the value of some sponsorships .. notably from companies owned by other family members (going on memory). They pushed club into the black .. thus allowing them to pass the FFP rules which are designed to prevent clubs from buying championships
 

67YAZ

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I think the accusation is they inflated the value of some sponsorships .. notably from companies owned by other family members (going on memory). They pushed club into the black .. thus allowing them to pass the FFP rules which are designed to prevent clubs from buying championships
yes, but the root of the issue is how the wage bill was calculated in the first few FFP windows and differences in interpretation about how contracts signed before 2010 should be counted. While the transfer of money among Mansour-related business probably broke FFP rules, the case is messy because UEFA’s initial rules were somewhat ambiguous and then they were revised during the early years of FFP in a way that raised the break even bar for City.

The rationale for FFP is a mess. It makes sense to have clear rules and debt and expenditure, especially for lower tier clubs or clubs in small countries. Those are the ones for whom bankruptcy is a real possibility. But very few of the clubs with a real chance of going under are going into European competitions. It’s really much more a problem for domestic FAs to address.

Platini gave away the intent when he focused on financial doping. What is the problem with deep pocketed owners pumping money into their clubs? That it creates a competitive imbalance? Which is an issue FFP doesn’t even scratch.
 

SocrManiac

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Hmmm, and there were rumors of Pep to Juventus, i just saw it as a sidebar story and never clicked the link. But if i was Juve i'd be all in on trying to get Pep.
I have a ton of thoughts and feelings, but this is the one nearest and dearest.

Sarri has been a disaster. It takes a lot to make this Juventus side not run away with the title, but he's done a fantastic job so far. The only positive I can take from his reign is that he managed to keep Dybala on board.

I despise City for a number of reasons (Otamendi is only one of them). I can't make myself dance on their grave. They've made the Premier League better. The biggest knock on England for years was that it was a run and gun league devoid of tactics. City, and Pep's City in particular, have forced sides to work the intellectual side.

If the ban holds (and I have my doubts), I'm not sure they'll have a hard time holding their talent. I'm less convinced that players want to play in the Champions League than I am they want to play for sides that can afford them. Missing two years in Europe might not handicap City's ability to hold their best. They don't need the CL for the money.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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That video gave a nice easy explanation of the case .. however, it’s interesting in that UEFA wanted to kick City out of the CL a few years ago but backed off out of fear of endless lawsuits. So what has changed ? Guessing the damning nature of the Football Leaks documents , combined with Abu Dhabi’s image cratering, have embolden UEFA.

I agree with 67Yaz’s point about FFP not helping with the much bigger problem of the stratification of Europe’s super clubs and the rank and file. FFP is, more or less designed to prevent the rise of another City or Chelsea - fueled solely from the resources of some oil sheik.
 
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Mighty Joe Young

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One other side effect is the very strong likelihood of the Premier League imposing a points penalty ..


The question is, when would this penalty be imposed? One assumes this would only happen if the appeal fails .. which will take several months .. So if the CAS rules against City in August would those points be deducted from the 2020/2021 season - Which would effectively kill City’s chances for the league next year? Or are penalty deductions applied to the previous year’s results (Which would be irrelevant) Wasn’t that what happened to Juventus few years ago with the match fixing?
 

SoxFanInCali

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I wouldn't be surprised if the Premier League simply deducted enough points to knock them out of the Europe spots this year, so the CL places go to the actual top 4 finishers post-penalties.
 

Vinho Tinto

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When John Henry bought Liverpool he claimed one of the main motivations was FFP. He famously quipped “I’m no Oil Sheik” or words to that effect.
I remember that. His group has done a remarkable job running Liverpool, but he did buy Liverpool and not Patrick Thistle. He could not lift a small club to Liverpool’s level while remaining revenue neutral.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I remember that. His group has done a remarkable job running Liverpool, but he did buy Liverpool and not Patrick Thistle. He could not lift a small club to Liverpool’s level while remaining revenue neutral.
I think he just meant he foresaw Liverpool being able to complete with the likes of City and ManuU etc because he thought there was a level playing field due to FFP .. he was, of course wrong. It has been more or less inafective.
 

Kliq

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Yeah it has been real tough for Liverpool to compete with those teams. Tough break for Henry.
 

Titans Bastard

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I think he just meant he foresaw Liverpool being able to complete with the likes of City and ManuU etc because he thought there was a level playing field due to FFP .. he was, of course wrong. It has been more or less inafective.
The true purpose of FFP was not to level the playing field, but to make it more difficult for the nouveau riche clubs to challenge old money clubs.
 

Tuff Ghost

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The most likely beneficiary of this is Spurs who have really increased their odds of getting back into Champions League, but it’s amazing that Sheffield United and Wolves have such a good chance right now.
UCL chances with change over past 5 days

Liverpool 100% (-)
Leicester 98% (+7%)
Chelsea 65% (+17%)
Tottenham 43%( +25%)
Wolves 22% (+13%)
Man. United 21% (+14%)
Sheffield Utd 16% (+11%)
...
Man. City 0% (-99%)
View: https://twitter.com/natesilver538/status/1228473040637440001?s=21
 

DLew On Roids

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The true purpose of FFP was not to level the playing field, but to make it more difficult for the nouveau riche clubs to challenge old money clubs.
This was the common complaint when fans of financially doped clubs wanted to cry about it, but it's really not true. There is unlimited spending on infrastructure, training facilities, etc. If you want to build a yo-yo club into a super club, you can do it within the rules; you can set up a global marketing arm, you can have a world-class academy, you can have a TV channel. What you can't do is go and buy players when you don't have the income to support paying them and when your ability to pay has nothing to do with your support in the marketplace.

I'm sorry to all the lifelong Cityzens and Shed End / Kop of Boulogne superfans, but the idea that success on the pitch was dependent on some extraction industry megabillionaire dropping a load of cash on players was having a real effect on the sense that what mattered was being a well-managed club like (gak!) Manchester United under Ferguson. For people to believe they're watching a legitimate contest, being good at signing undervalued players and coaching them needs to be the core of success, or the game's popularity isn't sustainable. There can still be a place for an oil baron buying and building up a club, but it needs to be just that--built up.

This isn't to say that FFP is a panacea. Financial governance at the national level is still appalling in most countries and often pairs up with political corruption. Barcelona and Real Madrid, for example, have been huge beneficiaries of shady dealing with local politicians and construction industries, and Italian soccer remains a morass of clownish accounting. A better FFP would mandate audited financial records. I'd also like to see FFP require that capital investments in clubs be irrevocable, i.e., that you can't load your club up with debt as a subsidiary of your bigger business, so that if you walk away or die, the club has an unsustainable debt load.

And now, my considered opinion on this specific outcome for City:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Hey, Pep, how many years will City be out of Europe?

 

Mighty Joe Young

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Excellent write up in the Athletic on City’s shenanigans


According to that, unlike Chelsea’s transfer ban (which was FIFA imposed), no penalties will be applied until the appeal plays itself out. They seem to think that will be before next year’s CL qualifying starts (early July).

So the domestic battle for the CL spots will not exactly be definitive.
 

67YAZ

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I remember that. His group has done a remarkable job running Liverpool, but he did buy Liverpool and not Patrick Thistle. He could not lift a small club to Liverpool’s level while remaining revenue neutral.
FSG also got a great deal on Liverpool. RBS forced Hicks to sell for basically the amount of debt the club had accrued (£300m purchase wiping out £285m debt). There wasn’t opening bidding to drive up the price.
 
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Tuff Ghost

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A lot of the talk has been around the Etihad sponsorship deal (£51.5 of the deal was actually paid by Abu Dhabi United Group, a holding company of owner, Sheikh Mansour), but Oliver Kay’s new article has a nice summary of how the Mancini sacking played into this, too, and the arrogance of thinking they could essentially do whatever they want:

The allegation goes that when compiling City’s accounts for 2012-13, the club’s chief financial officer Jorge Chumillas wrote an internal e-mail stating that, due to the cost of sacking Roberto Mancini, “we will have a shortfall of £9.9 million in order to comply with UEFA FFP this season”. Ferran Soriano, the chief executive, is alleged to have replied that this problem could be overcome if City could be paid the contractually stated bonus from their sponsors for winning the FA Cup.

There was just one problem with this. City had lost the FA Cup final to Wigan Athletic.

According to Der Spiegel, a compromise was reached whereby various sponsors — the Abu Dhabi airline Etihad, the Abu Dhabi-based fund Aabar Investments and the Abu Dhabi department for culture and tourism — would have their payments adjusted so that the shortfall was covered. When Chumillas asked whether they would be allowed to change the date of sponsorship payments, Simon Pearce, a board member of City Football Group and a special adviser to the club’s chairman Khaldoon al-Mubarak, is alleged to have replied, “Of course. We can do what we want.”
 

Mighty Joe Young

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The true purpose of FFP was not to level the playing field, but to make it more difficult for the nouveau riche clubs to challenge old money clubs.
Of course .. but FFP was completely new when Henry bought the club .. so it’s real effects would not have been obvious at the time. It seemed pretty obvious, after a couple of years at the helm that Henry & Co. we’re relative neophytes at running a football club. So it’s highly likely they didn’t do an in-depth analysis of the inner workings of FFP.