His 3 point shot looked good as well, pretty clean stroke. Be interesting if he gets some run with the C's with Hayward out. I'd guess he gets another few games in Maine, and if he continues to look good he'll get some minutes in Boston.
Maine Red Claws: Tacko, Tremont, and Romeo
- Thread starter DJnVa
- Start date
His handle looks very good and he appears to be active on defense. Just one game but if he continues to play like that he will play himself out of Maine before I get a chance to see him there. 
I wonder if Langford gets an opportunity with the varsity club as a result of Hayward’s injury.
Having strong teams in Maine and Boston is going to make for a fun winter.
I wonder if Langford gets an opportunity with the varsity club as a result of Hayward’s injury.
Having strong teams in Maine and Boston is going to make for a fun winter.
Impressive.
The kid already has NBA size, handle, finish.
Keep drilling 3s and he'll force PT
He’s also solid with the rip-and-go off the catch, which is important for wings in the Celtics offense.
Waters is a really interesting complementary player for Brown and Tatum. His game is great at creating space and drawing help, which really opens up things for someone like Brown, who's at his best when the defense is in rotation or not set. Kemba does the same thing for Brown, and it's a more dynamic way of creating attack space than just putting guys around the 3-point line.
Of course all the usual caveats about how +/- is not a good stat, especially when looking at an individual game. But, Waters was +20 last night and Wannamaker was -22. That's a wee bit of a difference between the two.
Despite the height differential, I feel like Waters with his quick hands and ability to get steals is not too bad at the defensive end. He also has a better 3P shot, as well, I believe.
Despite the height differential, I feel like Waters with his quick hands and ability to get steals is not too bad at the defensive end. He also has a better 3P shot, as well, I believe.
It’s more a function of Wannamaker being a complementary guy. I’d rather play him with Kemba, but I’d rather play Waters if there’s no Kemba.
Only basing this off last night but Waters may very well be that player we've been looking for that can cover the quicker guards that Marcus Smart can't.
I think he should be on the Celtics for good tbh. He has a role. He's a better playmaker than Wanamaker/Edwards and is a pest on defense. I don't think it's a given Edwards will be better than Waters from deep either. Waters is just the more complete player. We saw the value he added yesterday even when his shot wasn't falling.
Of course if they turned Waters contract into a full NBA contract, they'd have to release someone and I don't see that happening. At least not this early in the season.
I'd say just get rid of Poirier because he doesn't even play but who knows.
I think he should be on the Celtics for good tbh. He has a role. He's a better playmaker than Wanamaker/Edwards and is a pest on defense. I don't think it's a given Edwards will be better than Waters from deep either. Waters is just the more complete player. We saw the value he added yesterday even when his shot wasn't falling.
Of course if they turned Waters contract into a full NBA contract, they'd have to release someone and I don't see that happening. At least not this early in the season.
I'd say just get rid of Poirier because he doesn't even play but who knows.
Yeah, pretty much agree with everything here. And as mentioned above, he meshes well with their current core.
If they want him in Maine awhile to work on jacking 3s, that’s ok I guess. But he’s close to the point where he needs to play against NBA competition, and imo that’s more important than saving a year of his time or keeping Poirier (who Brad seems to think is a total stiff).
They don't have to convert Waters' contract until January at the earliest, and could easily extend that time closer to the trade deadline without too much impact on either the team's record or Water's development. So I'm guessing that they will do everything they can to avoid cutting someone until they make a move that ships out a player such as Poirier as part of a larger deal. Anyway, we're less than 3 weeks away from 12/15.
When he and Edwards were playing together, the defense fell apart. I'm pretty sure all of Edwards minutes were with Waters on the floor, actually. In those 13 minutes, they were -7. In the 7 minutes Waters played without Edwards, he was +27.
I think that back court was more out of necessity due to injury tho. It'll be interesting how Brad will juggle the roster if they both get going and the team is fully healthy. I don't think you can get away with playing Waters and Edwards together regularly.
Wanamaker is fine from 3, he shot 41% last season and has hit 92% of his FTs this year (86% last season). Brad is a decent shooter. Shooting 3s isn't Tremonts calling card, its ball penetration, handling/running the offense (which lets the wings find their spots) and his on-ball defense.
ALL of this is incorrect.
They didn't play together in the first half at the end of Q1/beg of Q2 when Sac built a big lead.
and Waters didn't post a plus 27 in 7 minutes without Carson.
Edwards played better, off the ball, with Waters as Brad noted in his post-game presser. They were a net positive when they played together.
I love me some Tremont Waters (he was my G-League MVP in the pre-season prediction thread), but let's pump the brakes a hair. CBS isn't running Wanamaker out of the rotation just yet
It's really getting silly having to defend Brad Wanamaker, after he has 1 bad game. If you go back and look at his numbers from last year and this season he's been a very positive contributor to the team's success. He's a solid back-up PG to Kemba (and Smart).
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wanambr01.html
Last edited:
Nobody could guard Hield again last night. There was one play, can't remember when it was in the game, but SAC was coming in off a timeout or some stoppage of play - with a few second to shoot, and somehow Hield was open for a wide open 3. It was like - there's ONE PLAYER you need to guard in that situation. One player! I didn't recall seeing Waters ever guarding Hield. Seemed like it was often Smart or Brown. Waters might just have been too small to guard him - no idea. But, he should have at least been able to keep up with him. However, guarding around screens seems to be a tough thing to pick up for NBA rookies. A lot of them really suck at it - see Edwards, Carsen.
He played 4:21 without Waters and was a -6 in that time. So when Edwards played with Waters, he was actually -1. So in 11 minutes without Carsen, Waters was +21.
And it's +\-. Everyone knows the flaws of +\-, nothing to bump the brakes about.
And yet, when the Kings had the chance to inbound the ball with 5 seconds remaining, all they could get off was an air ball.
Of course, neither Waters nor Edwards were on the floor at the time. NBA defense is hard in general, and nearly all rookies struggle with it.
listen to Brad's presser, contradicts your final point. He liked how Waters and Carsen played together
and since you know the limitations of plus/minus...
Why are you using them, incorrectly at first, after 1 game to make a point?
He's not replacing Wanamaker, as you implied in post #60, as the bench playmaker anytime soon. That's where the brakes need to be pumped.
If you want to say Waters may have an impact by seasons end, great I'm optimistically with you. But people (maybe not you) continuously want run Wanamaker out of here for no apparent reason
Last edited:
Ain't getting nothing back for Poirier, though if by "ships out" you mean "sends back to France," I'm with you, with the caveat being that Celtics big men are made of glass, so you never know when you'll need another one. However, Poirier's been a big zero so far; it was probably a bad omen that he played summer league for the Nets a couple of seasons ago -- the Nets, who probably could've used a decent backup big man -- and they didn't see enough in his game at that meager level to keep him around.
To clarify, they are not getting anything back just for Poirier. However, he could be a throw-in piece of a multi-player deal to help make the numbers work on the salary cap front; aka, ballast
Some of this is backed in to playing 2 guys who are shorter than 6 feet together. That's only going to be a good option in favorable situations. But Waters will spent most of the year in the G, barring catastrophe.
Late in the game, I remember being dumbfounded on one play in particular where Marcus helped off of Hield, who drained a 3.
I think it is good that Poirier is around. I would not bet against him playing some sort of meaningful role at some point this season. He's pretty obviously #4 among Celtics centers now, and that is unlikely to change, but the 3 in front of him each have their issues, including keeping healthy.
Yes, I remember that one. Marcus had some amazing defensive play in that game (the steal near the very end for example) but that particular play seemed pretty boneheaded.
I think he stole the ball once, or at least knocked it away (it might have eventually gone out of bounds off the C's). But either way, he was effective (of course in super limited sample size).
Tatum was on Hield a lot. The biggest problem was him getting open for 3s (he did hit 11 of them).
SSS aside, Waters' defense was impressive on Buddy.
I'd like to see if Tremont is capable of aggressively going over screens versus elite 3pt shooters since the C's have been lit up by Hield 2x/Beal/Lowry/Lou Will this season.
If Waters is defensively elite/capable, he leapfrogs into a valuable rotational player that the Celtics have needed for a few years now.
And I'll gladly offer a mea culpa to my "pump the brakes" comment above
Last edited:
You know that I love the guy, so grain of salt and all that...but the fact that he didn't look totally and completely lost on defense in his first NBA game says something about him. Pretty much everyone looks hopeless navigating screens in year one, let alone game one.
I don't remember any particular instance of him beating a screen nicely, so I'm honestly not sure how many times it happened. But he didn't look lost. Imo, that's like not noticing the officials.
Waters seems like mini-Smart. Where Smart can cover 7 footers he shouldn’t be able to, Waters can cover 6-7 guys he shouldn’t be able to.
They both hold position well, pressure, and use quick hands to generate steals, which lowers the equity of a mismatch possession drastically.
Thank goodness everyone else from this class looks good because he's sure looking like a bust
Danny just needs to move on from Old ManTatum to find Romeo minutes!
More shiny new toys!
Just re-watched the game. It was just after TL blocked BB. Cs were playing their diamond zone; Smart was doing some coaching and I think TW missed his assignment..
As long as Romeo is hitting the weight room and working on his jump shot I'm not sure I care how many G-League minutes he gets.
Celtics rookie Tremont Waters named NBA G League Player of the Month
https://sports.yahoo.com/celtics-rookie-tremont-waters-named-214424379.html
https://sports.yahoo.com/celtics-rookie-tremont-waters-named-214424379.html
depending on Smart's health, they may need to swap out Carsen to Maine for Tremont.
At the very least Carsen should play a few games in Maine during the Celtics mini-break from Dec. 12-18
Edwards needs to build up some confidence and start seeing 3s go through the net in Maine
Tre had a great game when they called him up and let him play. I'd like to see more of him. If that means putting Edwards on a bus to Maine for a bit, I'm good with that. I like undersized point guards more than undersized shooting guards turned into undersized point guards. Tre has elite quickness, and that goes a long way.
it doesn't. They can pick 13 players out of 17 to suit up on any given night. Waters would just take Smart's spot.
I can see both arguments. However, when we hit the postseason and the rotation shortens, there's not going to be a lot of minutes for Waters that Kemba, Smart, and Wannamaker don't take up. I can see a role for a shooter off the bench though.
It's a decent problem to have though.
It's a decent problem to have though.
Waters had 1 game where he looked decent, and PG is a diificult position to learn at the NBA level. Very few PGs arrive out of college as immediate assets, most have to learn their trade.
I like Waters a lot, but I don't think there is any need to rush him along just yet. While Smart and Hayward are out, it may make sense to have him up with the Celtics as a ballhandler.
Independent of that, when the Celtics are healthier, it absolutely makes sense to shoot Edwards down to the G for a few games.
I like Waters a lot, but I don't think there is any need to rush him along just yet. While Smart and Hayward are out, it may make sense to have him up with the Celtics as a ballhandler.
Independent of that, when the Celtics are healthier, it absolutely makes sense to shoot Edwards down to the G for a few games.
Carsen lacks some confidence at the moment. Two games in Maine (the 13th&15th) where he takes 20 shots/game could help.
Tremont's ballhandling and perimeter defense could be helpful with Marcus out tonight (Hayward is also an offensive initiator that is missing so were down 2).
Waters apparently still in Maine as of Wednesday morning. https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/celtics-vs-heat-odds-best-nba-picks-predictions-clash-east-elites