Machado to Dodgers
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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NL is wide open, and even without Seagar they are getting unexpected dream production from Kemp and Muncy. Taking advantage of it is smart.
This seems to make sense all around, Machado I think will play great given that there will be no expectations for him to sign there as has been said, definitely a good roll of the dice for LA. It’ll be interesting to see his defensive stats now that he is playing in more meaningful games and has a few months at SS under his belt again.
I am pretty sure that in a fair auction, BAL could have gotten more talent from Cashman than they’ll end up with from LA, but it is probably not a massive difference, so somewhat understandable.
I am pretty sure that in a fair auction, BAL could have gotten more talent from Cashman than they’ll end up with from LA, but it is probably not a massive difference, so somewhat understandable.
ichael J. DuarteVerified account @michaeljduarte 3h3 hours ago
Sources believe the deal agreed upon between #Dodgers
and #Orioles is Yusniel Diaz, Dustin May, and Errol Robinson heading to Baltimore for Manny Machado and cash and possibly bonus pool $$. Again, not official as teams have yet to announce. Still fluid.
Sources believe the deal agreed upon between #Dodgers
and #Orioles is Yusniel Diaz, Dustin May, and Errol Robinson heading to Baltimore for Manny Machado and cash and possibly bonus pool $$. Again, not official as teams have yet to announce. Still fluid.
“Your Honor, with the Court’s permission, I will mark this Post as Exhibit A. May I approach the bench?”
The Sox equivalent for that deal in terms of value, would have been something like Chavis had he not had the PED thing, Shawaryn and a meh low level middle infielder. They didn't have a good enough outfield prospect. In other words, probably not something they could have come up with.
The Dodgers didn't get a blue chipper but Diaz (in the 80's for top 100) has been really solid in AA and is young for the level. He is just a corner outfielder though.
The Dodgers didn't get a blue chipper but Diaz (in the 80's for top 100) has been really solid in AA and is young for the level. He is just a corner outfielder though.
Diaz is a pretty good prize for 3 months of someone who you have no shot at resigning in this market, which is a historical bad seller market.
Hmmm ... Manny's career ended in PED suspensions, the baseball card market has bottomed out and Toys R Us is defunct
O’s may have issues with some of the.
Medicals
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-trade-rumors-roundup-manny-machado-to-dodgers-hits-a-snag-over-prospect-medicals/
Medicals
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-trade-rumors-roundup-manny-machado-to-dodgers-hits-a-snag-over-prospect-medicals/
Man, I don't know why any of the teams deal with the Os. Angelos is such a toxic owner.
If anyone has a few hours to burn, there's a guy who owns and runs a local all sports station in Baltimore that has a vendetta against the Os for the last 12 years. He's been keeping track of all of the people Angelos has mistreated through the years and some of it can be found here: http://wnst.net/free-the-birds/dear-peter-g-angelos-time-will-not-dim-the-awfulness-of-your-deeds/.
If anyone has a few hours to burn, there's a guy who owns and runs a local all sports station in Baltimore that has a vendetta against the Os for the last 12 years. He's been keeping track of all of the people Angelos has mistreated through the years and some of it can be found here: http://wnst.net/free-the-birds/dear-peter-g-angelos-time-will-not-dim-the-awfulness-of-your-deeds/.
IDK. If you don't like the medicals on the lottery tickets do they really lose any sleep at night over ending up with the upcoming comp pick instead of Diaz?
I don’t know how anyone could be surprised. I was going to post earlier, it’s not close to being done with medicals pending — then I figured everyone here already knows that. It happens regularly on trades and free agent signings.
He treats due diligence on the medicals like a home system inspection — an occasion to get more on a transaction or to abandon it altogether if there is buyer’s remourse.
O’s fans have only one sliver of hope — that this Machado deal is part of a hidden plan to strip the team down in anticipation of selling it. And the chances of that are slim and none.
I read just this link and the 5 pages of it
Holy crap, I've got the rest of it queued up to read later
It looks like it's all settled. Machado is going to the Dodgers.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/07/dodgers-to-acquire-manny-machado.html
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/07/dodgers-to-acquire-manny-machado.html
Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal 48s49 seconds ago
Orioles getting Diaz, Kramer, Bannon, Pop, Valera, source tells The Athletic.
Per MLB Pipeline, includes LAD's #4, #27 and #28 prospects.
Orioles getting Diaz, Kramer, Bannon, Pop, Valera, source tells The Athletic.
Per MLB Pipeline, includes LAD's #4, #27 and #28 prospects.
Diaz is 21 in AA; he's a top-100 prospect (OF)
Kremer is 22 in AA, having an excellent year (SP)
Pop is 21 in AA, with decent stats (RP)
Bannon is 22 in high-A, undersized but with lots of power, albeit in the Cal League (3B)
Valera is 26 and has been bouncing between LAD and AAA, looks like a utility profile at best (2B)
Not a terrible return. Four guys with upside and a cheap utility guy.
Kremer is 22 in AA, having an excellent year (SP)
Pop is 21 in AA, with decent stats (RP)
Bannon is 22 in high-A, undersized but with lots of power, albeit in the Cal League (3B)
Valera is 26 and has been bouncing between LAD and AAA, looks like a utility profile at best (2B)
Not a terrible return. Four guys with upside and a cheap utility guy.
This made me feel a bit bad to watch, I think people should do all they can as adults to stop rooting for horribly run franchises, or at least suspend their interest. I know this is easier said than done, but I've done it myself to different extents with the Jets (easier because I didn't grow up rooting for them) and the Knicks (the only team I grew up liking more than the Yankees but I just can't live and die with a team owned by Dolan, it's not good for my mental health).
Because there’s only one team with control over the player they want? Don’t we all deal with people and companies like this in our jobs, and keep doing so despite the pain, because we just have to?
That video was indeed tough to watch.
How fans of teams like the Orioles (and maybe few teams are indeed like them) continue to go out to the ballpark, with all that entails financially and regarding time management, astounds me. I don't think I would renounce them...but I can't imagine spending money and a lot of time on them.
In the end, that baseball teams can spend their way to success -- and I know, the Astros and Royals are nice counter arguments -- has got to be a very tough pill to swallow for fans of the many have nots.
How fans of teams like the Orioles (and maybe few teams are indeed like them) continue to go out to the ballpark, with all that entails financially and regarding time management, astounds me. I don't think I would renounce them...but I can't imagine spending money and a lot of time on them.
In the end, that baseball teams can spend their way to success -- and I know, the Astros and Royals are nice counter arguments -- has got to be a very tough pill to swallow for fans of the many have nots.
I know several older life-long O's fans down here in the DC area - especially hard for them to watch what has happened to the team, given that between 1966 and 1983 they were absolutely one of the best teams in the MLB over that 18 year stretch....
This is probably less the case currently than it’s ever been since free agency started 40+ years ago.
Maybe. But the fact that some teams start on second base financially has always sucked in my mind. And I say that as a fan of a team that starts with a sizable lead off second. Said differently, while the Sox have a special place in my heart, I'm more proud of the titles Boston/NE teams have won in salary cap leagues. This is not a new story but when you see a team lose a player like Machado for economic reasons, it puts a fine point on an old conversation.
I don't think they lost him for economic reasons, they lost him primarily because of shitty management and because he's always wanted to go to free agency and pick his team. They are paying Chris Davis 7/161 and Alex Cobb 4/57, both as bad contracts as you will find. Take those away and it's a lot easier to offer Machado a market deal. Also, FWIW, Baltimore's payroll this season is within $20M of the Yankees. Cubs and Dodgers, they just have spent it horribly.
Well, in the O's case "economic reasons" includes idiotically giving Chris Davis a multi-year contract at $23M per year....
They are well and truly screwed the rest of the way - how many could they lose now, 110 games? Now that Machado's 164 OPS+ is gone, they are left with all of 2 guys who are over 100 OPS+ on the entire 40 man, and those two are barely over (Trumbo 109 and Valencia 101). Has there ever been a team that finished the season with no batters over 100 OPS+?
O's could end up in that 110 games lost scenario, since as usual their rotation is also not good this year, their 4 main starters having recorded losses in more than half their starts...
They are well and truly screwed the rest of the way - how many could they lose now, 110 games? Now that Machado's 164 OPS+ is gone, they are left with all of 2 guys who are over 100 OPS+ on the entire 40 man, and those two are barely over (Trumbo 109 and Valencia 101). Has there ever been a team that finished the season with no batters over 100 OPS+?
O's could end up in that 110 games lost scenario, since as usual their rotation is also not good this year, their 4 main starters having recorded losses in more than half their starts...
Not sure I would describe the Os as a "second tier" team. They - well the Angelos family - is making a staggering amount of money from MASN based on the contract MLB signed with the Os when the Nats moved into town. One estimate from 2015 is that the Os made 50M out of MASN that year: http://www.talknats.com/2016/05/07/new-masn-filing-exposes-profits-retained-orioles/.
The less MASN pays to the Os and Nats in TV rights fees (that issue is mired in litigation), the more profitable MASN is and because of the ownership structure, the more money Angelos pulls out because the MASN money is exempt from revenue sharing. Money that could be spent on salaries, international bonus signings, or scouts (by all accounts, the Os have the smallest scouting department in baseball).
Note that by artificially lowering the rights fees paid to the Os and Nats, Angelos is also basically taking money away from the other owners.
More fun with Peter Angelos!
Also, why is everyone talking about the Orioles as if they are the dumpster fire of the league? Sure they’ve been epically bad this year, have made terrible deals in the last few years and it looks like the end of the road for Buck.
But it’s been two years since they went to the postseason and they have been in the postseason three times since 2012 (which BTW is more than I even realized):
http://www.espn.com/mlb/history/teams/_/team/Bal
I get that Angelos sucks and the team is on a downward trajectory but the franchise semi-recent history has been pretty good all things considered.
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Because the Os are a dumpster fire of an organization. Just because they had some success doesn't mean that it isn't a dumpster fire of an organization.
BTW, it should be noted that your point about the Os shows how much advantage teams that "tank" (or are bad for a long period of time) have at talent acquisition simply by being at the top of the draft. So the Os from 2001 to 2011 had these picks in the first round: 7 + 19; 4; 7; 8; 13; 9; 5; 4; 3; 4; and 4.
They drafted: Kevin Gausman; Dylan Bundy; Manny Machado; Matthew Hobgood; Brian Matusz; Matt Wieters; Billy Rowell; Brandon Snyder; Wade Townsend; Nick Markakis; Adam Loewen; Chris Smith; and Mike Fontenot. That's not even a great draft record. But when combined with getting Jones and Tillman for Bedard; getting a dominant closer out of Britton, a third round draft pick, and some great value acquisitions/signings (Wei Yin Chen; Chris Davis; Nelson Cruz; and JJ Hardy), and you have a makings of a playoff team.
Just think if they had hit on some of high draft picks or had manage to develop Arrieta.
Sure, all fair. Their starting pitching has always been pretty terrible. But this isn't the Redskins where the team's asshole owner has destroyed the team repeatedly and at every level -- from the FO, to the roster, to the team culture. In that case, you can see why fans are just giving up.
But that's not the case here. The Orioles have had some success. They hired a pretty good GM in Duquette. The hired a really good coach in Showalter (loathe as I am to admit it). And as a result, they've been a pretty competitive team the last 5 years. Sure it's all been in spite of Angelos, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It *has* happened -- and pretty recently. So I don't really get the agita from the likes of @jon abbey and Mallory Rubin. They traded a potential cornerstone player and the team is falling apart again. Yeah, it's because they fucked up. And yeah it sucks for fans. But it happens.
But that's not the case here. The Orioles have had some success. They hired a pretty good GM in Duquette. The hired a really good coach in Showalter (loathe as I am to admit it). And as a result, they've been a pretty competitive team the last 5 years. Sure it's all been in spite of Angelos, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. It *has* happened -- and pretty recently. So I don't really get the agita from the likes of @jon abbey and Mallory Rubin. They traded a potential cornerstone player and the team is falling apart again. Yeah, it's because they fucked up. And yeah it sucks for fans. But it happens.
Buck is likely done here, but Duquette may be done period as a GM.
Their farm is barren. Their track record developing pitching has been particularly abysmal.
That's on Dan's watch. The excuse for him in Boston -- and Lord knows he had some passionate defenders in SoSH -- is that John Harrington issued an ironclad edict: win NOW, period. So the Gammons'- promised Garden of Eden farm system had no chance to take root in Boston.
Fine, stipulated. There is no such excuse in Baltimore. Yes Angelos is a nut -- but he did not undermine the grocery buying or the seeding, planting and cultivating. Yes, Dan did not get along with Buck, but Buck did not undermine Dan's efforts in those areas either.
Their farm is barren. Their track record developing pitching has been particularly abysmal.
That's on Dan's watch. The excuse for him in Boston -- and Lord knows he had some passionate defenders in SoSH -- is that John Harrington issued an ironclad edict: win NOW, period. So the Gammons'- promised Garden of Eden farm system had no chance to take root in Boston.
Fine, stipulated. There is no such excuse in Baltimore. Yes Angelos is a nut -- but he did not undermine the grocery buying or the seeding, planting and cultivating. Yes, Dan did not get along with Buck, but Buck did not undermine Dan's efforts in those areas either.
Manny's 2013 season ended with a knee injury at the end of the regular season. Before Manny returned, Trout signed his extension with the Angels. If the knee injury was a concern, it became a greater one when his 2014 season ended halfway with an injury to the other knee.
The Orioles were still great enough to win the AL East. What might have been if they were more aggressive re-signing Andrew Miller, Nelson Cruz, and Nick Markakis that offseason instead of
The Orioles were still great enough to win the AL East. What might have been if they were more aggressive re-signing Andrew Miller, Nelson Cruz, and Nick Markakis that offseason instead of
I think you misunderstood my post, I don't feel the least bit bad for the Orioles franchise or anyone working for it, I just felt bad for Rubin specifically after watching the video and seeing how upset she was about Machado leaving. It's rare that I'm not a totally misanthropic asshole, don't make me second guess this time.
