[LOCKED] 2019 AB Watch: Non-legal Views Only

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azsoxpatsfan

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May 23, 2014
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Didn’t porzigis get accused of rape and claim he was being extorted and what ever happened there? Just wondering because I have no idea how this type of situation usually plays out
 

DJnVa

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This will be cleared up from a Pats POV pretty quickly.

What time is practice?
 

BigSoxFan

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The Pats went from having too thin of a WR depth chart to having too many, but now they're rocketing back in the other direction. It's impressive really
Giving Demaryius away really sucks if this is the end of AB. Harry can’t come back for 2 months and Gordon is always on thin ice. We are not that far away from Gunner running routes.
 

BaseballJones

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Despite some of the reactionary responses about the veracity of the claims, nobody really has any idea what happened yet. I’m comfortable letting the process play out a little more before declaring either side is telling the truth. From the Patriots standpoint, though, it shouldn’t matter. They took a chance on a risky guy, he didn’t even make it to his first practice without a major problem/distraction. And regardless of what really happened, at minimum his responses to the accuser are pretty awful and disturbing. He’s not worth the trouble. Cut him as soon as possible. He can have his day in court on his own time and dime.
How hypocritical would it be of Kraft, for example, to insist that BB cut Brown before the truth is known, because just the accusation has been made?
 

djbayko

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The point is that we should react the same way whether this emerged before or after he signed with NE.
Maybe. We don't get our $9M or whatever it is in cap space back, so it's not exactly the same. We have an investment that may be worth protecting...I honestly don't know. I trust whatever the team decides to do. They'll have more info than I will.
 

BornToRun

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We should know by tomorrow afternoon how the Pats will approach this. Bill won’t mess around. if they don’t want to deal with this story he will be cut. If he practices and Bill says that he won’t comment on it, it means they’ll weather it.
Yeah, I can’t imagine the team will let this become a major issue that drags throughout the year. I just hope we can get some real clarity one way or the other and find out for certain what occurred.

If he stays on the team, I don’t want to see him catch a touchdown pass and quell my celebration because “This guy might be a rapist.” That and I don’t think any of us want a sexual predator on the team in general.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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If the patriots knew, and still decided to sign him and trade Demaryius, wouldn’t it seem to mean that they don’t find the accusation credible? It seems highly unlikely that they would sign him, knowing he had a credible rape accusation against him, and just hope it wouldn’t come out.

If they didn’t know then obviously thats irrelevant
 

DJnVa

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Maybe. We don't get our $9M or whatever it is in cap space back, so it's not exactly the same. We have an investment that may be worth protecting...I honestly don't know. I trust whatever the team decides to do. They'll have more info than I will.
I believe that the Pats would have grounds to get that back.
 

lexrageorge

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The extortion claims are fairly specific. If they are validated to some extent, it does cast doubt on the accuser's claims. Extortion does happen. So I do think we need to give this 48 hours or so before coming to any conclusions.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Do we know the cap implications of cutting him? Does the 2020 cap hit get accelerated?

Do they have the cap space to do it immediately?
 

Ed Hillel

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I honestly doubt it’s much of a distraction past the original news cycle, which will last a week. Nobody has the attention span for anything past that anymore, and some other squirrel will pop up.

I go back to the Pats likely knowing of this and still signing him. I don’t think he’ll get cut, barring something more at this point.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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If the patriots knew, and still decided to sign him and trade Demaryius, wouldn’t it seem to mean that they don’t find the accusation credible? It seems highly unlikely that they would sign him, knowing he had a credible rape accusation against him, and just hope it wouldn’t come out.

If they didn’t know then obviously thats irrelevant
I want to believe that one of two things is true: They didn’t know or they ave reasonably certain based on something concrete and specific that the claims are untrue.

If it is not one of those two things I think I will be disappointed.
 

lexrageorge

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Do we know the cap implications of cutting him? Does the 2020 cap hit get accelerated?

Do they have the cap space to do it immediately?
There's no acceleration as it's after June 1st. The team would be off the hook for NLTBE incentives. There would be a pro-rated cap hit in 2020 for the signing bonus.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I honestly doubt it’s much of a distraction past the original news cycle, which will last a week. Nobody has the attention span for anything past that anymore, and some other squirrel will pop up.

I go back to the Pats likely knowing of this and still signing him. I don’t think he’ll get cut, barring something more at this point.
Why do you think the Pats likely knew about it? Genuine question.
 

Ed Hillel

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If the Raiders could cut him without cap issues I'm pretty sure the Patriots can.
The Raiders gave him a very small signing bonus, the Pats gave him 9 million. But it’s still possible there’s contract language to cover this, assuming Pats didn’t know.
 

TheoShmeo

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Hope so. Dude is a rapist. Krafts wife must be rolling over in her grave especially given her hardline stance on domestic abusers. I can only imagine how she'd feel about a rapist like AB. All women need to be believed
Are you for real?

Let’s hope you never have to learn the hard way that people — including women people — lie and make shit up all the time.

I’m not claiming that this woman is a liar or AB is not a rapist. I don’t know whether either is true.

But those kind of blanket statements are ridiculous.

Maybe you’re going for parody there and I’m just missing it.

My guess is that the Pats, having signed Brown and traded Thomas, are not going to act rashly and will let things play out.

I get the “avoid the circus” reaction but in light of the owner and starting safety having been accused of crimes, and both not having been suspended or disciplined in any way by the NFL or the team, I believe the Pats will again allow the legal system to run its course before taking action.

After all, we don’t live in a country where our legal system takes as true in knee jerk fashion every accusation that is made by anyone, regardless of their sex.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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There's no acceleration as it's after June 1st. The team would be off the hook for NLTBE incentives. There would be a pro-rated cap hit in 2020 for the signing bonus.
Thanks. Ok, so no change from where they are now. Except of course not getting the player.
 

Ed Hillel

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Why do you think the Pats likely knew about it? Genuine question.
The texts shared with IncarceratedBob, of all people, indicate the Raiders were aware. Which means Rosenhaus likely was, and I just can’t see him burning bridges with BB over a 9 million dollar signing bonus.
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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How hypocritical would it be of Kraft, for example, to insist that BB cut Brown before the truth is known, because just the accusation has been made?
Not being snarky, but ownership has its privileges. Really don’t think the two are comparable. He has zero equity or goodwill built up here. And a multi-year legal and bad publicity mess is certainly not what they were signing on for. He gets his day in court, but he has no inalienable right to employment with the Patriots. Were I making the decision, I’d release with as little financial/cap damage as possible.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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May 23, 2014
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I want to believe that one of two things is true: They didn’t know or they ave reasonably certain based on something concrete and specific that the claims are untrue.

If it is not one of those two things I think I will be disappointed.
I will also be very disappointed if neither of those were true. But even if one separates morality from it, it would have been stupid to sign him and trade Demaryius if they knew this might happen. So I’ll be very disappointed if neither of those is true, but unless the patriots are both morally bankrupt and stupid, I think one of them MUST be true. Unless Thomas is cooked and they were gonna get rid of him anyway
 

jsinger121

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Jul 25, 2005
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Are you for real?

Let’s hope you never have to learn the hard way that people — including women people — lie and make shit up all the time.

I’m not claiming that this woman is a liar or AB is not a rapist. I don’t know whether either is true.

But those kind of blanket statements are ridiculous.

Maybe you’re going for parody there and I’m just missing it.

My guess is that the Pats, having signed Brown and traded Thomas, are not going to act rashly and will let things play out.

I get the “avoid the circus” reaction but in light of the owner and starting safety having been accused of crimes, and both not having been suspended or disciplined in any way by the NFL or the team, I believe the Pats will again allow the legal system to run its course before taking action.

After all, we don’t live in s country when we knee jerk believe in every accusation.
This. And let’s remember this is a civil case not a criminal one like Kraft or Chung.
 

lexrageorge

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Thanks. Ok, so no change from where they are now. Except of course not getting the player.
It's possible they could go after the bonus if AB misrepresented the status of this matter, but there are way too many unknowns at this point to determine the feasibility.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Jun 20, 2011
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Are you for real?

Let’s hope you never have to learn the hard way that people — including women people — lie and make shit up all the time.

I’m not claiming that this woman is a liar or AB is not a rapist. I don’t know whether either is true.

But those kind of blanket statements are ridiculous.

Maybe you’re going for parody there and I’m just missing it.

My guess is that the Pats, having signed Brown and traded Thomas, are not going to act rashly and will let things play out.

I get the “avoid the circus” reaction but in light of the owner and starting safety having been accused of crimes, and both not having been suspended or disciplined in any way by the NFL or the team, I believe the Pats will again allow the legal system to run its course before taking action.

After all, we don’t live in a country where our legal system takes as true in knee jerk fashion every accusation that is made by anyone, regardless of their sex.
Thank you for this. I figured you might be one of the rational voices here.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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The Raiders gave him a very small signing bonus, the Pats gave him 9 million. But it’s still possible there’s contract language to cover this, assuming Pats didn’t know.
I get that, but my point is the Raiders were able to void his contract. How would it look if the NFL allowed the voiding for the Oakland crap but not for being sued for rape? Can you imagine how that would look?

"Oh, he doesn't get paid if he acts out, but accused of rape? Sure pay him." Folks would have a field day.
 

dcmissle

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It is a civil suit, not criminal. Then you have instances involving Reuben Foster, Brian Banks and Marshawn Lynch. I am not taking lawsuits like this at face value.
 

lexrageorge

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I get that, but my point is the Raiders were able to void his contract. How would it look if the NFL allowed the voiding for the Oakland crap but not for being sued for rape? Can you imagine how that would look?

"Oh, he doesn't get paid if he acts out, but accused of rape? Sure pay him." Folks would have a field day.
There are several issues here: First, the complaint is civil, not criminal. And it's doubtful the NFL could void a contract over a civil complaint that hasn't been adjudicated. Also, the NFLPA could fight it, much like they did with Aaron Hernandez.
 

ehaz

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Didn’t porzigis get accused of rape and claim he was being extorted and what ever happened there? Just wondering because I have no idea how this type of situation usually plays out
Yes. I don't think anything new has happened recently, but the ESPN reporting makes it seem more like extortion.

After asking the Knicks in October to help her get the $68,000 from Porzingis, the woman emailed the Knicks a series of text messages that included Porzingis' invitation to visit his apartment the night of the alleged assault. Porzingis told her that he was "drunk," according to the texts. The woman agreed to come to his apartment, responding: "I'm not fancy at all. I'm in flip-flops and a night dress. I'm basic. ..."

In the handwritten letter that she described as a contractual agreement with Porzingis for payment of $68,000 -- a copy of which was obtained by ESPN -- Porzingis' name is misspelled and it is unclear whether the signature belongs to him.

In the alleged agreement, the woman wrote: "This agreement effective February 7, 2018, acknowledges the fact that an unexpected escalated sexual intercourse due to an inevitable physical attraction on the part of Kristap (sic) occurred subsequently, warrants compensation payable towards (the woman's) siblings college tuition in the amount of $68,000. ...
 

BaseballJones

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Not being snarky, but ownership has its privileges. Really don’t think the two are comparable. He has zero equity or goodwill built up here. And a multi-year legal and bad publicity mess is certainly not what they were signing on for. He gets his day in court, but he has no inalienable right to employment with the Patriots. Were I making the decision, I’d release with as little financial/cap damage as possible.
Yeah I didn’t say he had an inalienable right to employment or anything like that. Just that Kraft was accused of being in a sex trafficking ring and it seems like that was not really true. He knows a little something importance of letting things settle out though the legal process before jumping to conclusions.
 

Ed Hillel

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It is a civil suit, not criminal. Then you have instances involving Reuben Foster, Brian Banks and Marshawn Lynch. I am not taking lawsuits like this at face value.
Don’t forget Randy Moss, on the eve of SB 42.
 

mauf

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I skimmed, so perhaps I missed it, but I don’t see anything in the standard player contract that would require a player to disclose the existence of a threatened civil lawsuit. So I’m not sure why people think the Pats would be able to recoup AB’s signing bonus if they choose to cut him.
 

bsj

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I skimmed, so perhaps I missed it, but I don’t see anything in the standard player contract that would require a player to disclose the existence of a threatened civil lawsuit. So I’m not sure why people think the Pats would be able to recoup AB’s signing bonus if they choose to cut him.
Isn’t there a morals clause or am I imagining this?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Do any of the SOSH lawyers have experience in this area? My perception is that before you bring a civil complaint that alleges rape you almost have to have your client go to the authorities to report it. The reason is because if you don’t you give opposing counsel very strong cross examination material. It’s always hard cross examining alleged victims but the inference is that by not going to the police you’re comfortable with the prospect that a rapist will be on the loose. You can make it sound like a money grab.

So, assuming she did go to the police, there presumably is an investigative file out there like in the Ezekiel Elliott case. I expect we will hear about that in coming days.
 

nattysez

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He's not getting cut. It's a civil case that will take years to get resolved.

There are a lot of truly awful people in the NFL, from the owners on down. As long as AB catches balls on Sunday and schedules his deposition during the off-season, this will be a nothingburger by Friday.

That's not to say he didn't do this, just that I find it highly unlikely this results in him being cut.
 

ngruz25

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AB has had the wildest week in the news that I've ever seen. One thing's for sure: I am not drawing any firm conclusions about anything involving this guy.
 

dcmissle

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i would make no assumptions about her going to the police, one way or another.
 

cornwalls@6

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Yeah I didn’t say he had an inalienable right to employment or anything like that. Just that Kraft was accused of being in a sex trafficking ring and it seems like that was not really true. He knows a little something importance of letting things settle out though the legal process before jumping to conclusions.
Fair enough. I just don’t think whatever criticism that would come from Kraft appearing hypocritical on this, would pale in comparison to the mess that would come up with keeping him around for a protracted, and likely pretty ugly, legal fight over these accusations. For a guy who has other baggage, and who hasn’t even been to one practice yet. And if it comes to light that he in anyway lied or failed to disclose this situation to the Patriots before signing the deal, it’s an absolute no-brainer to me.
 

moondog80

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Sep 20, 2005
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He's not getting cut. It's a civil case that will take years to get resolved.

There are a lot of truly awful people in the NFL, from the owners on down. As long as AB catches balls on Sunday and schedules his deposition during the off-season, this will be a nothingburger by Friday.

That's not to say he didn't do this, just that I find it highly unlikely this results in him being cut.
If there is strong evidence that this occurred, he will but cut immediately, just like Ray Rice and Aaron Hernandez.
 

Ed Hillel

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i would make no assumptions about her going to the police, one way or another.
I normally wouldn’t, but when it’s combined with a public statement the accuser looks forward to working with the accused’s employer, especially one with such publicity, I give it some weight.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yuck. I wish I hadn’t read that. Nope—I never sexually assaulted anyone, Bill.
Was he asked specifically about the sexual assault, or about “his troubled past,” which BB easily could have been thinking on the field/locker room stuff.
 

djbayko

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You know, it’s difficult to escape the idea that this whole ordeal is driving his uber-irrational behavior lately. And if that’s the case, then does it portend that he’s guilty? I mean, if iyoure truly innocent and are being extorted, don’t you say “well that royally sucks, but I’ll let my lawyers handle it” and move on with your life best you can? He may feel trapped (and guilty) and see his world falling down around him.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I don’t think he was making any assumptions, but rather just wondering about it from a legal perspective
Mostly but I also was speculating or at least asking whether it was common for lawyers who bring sexual battery cases to first advise going to the police. My perception is that’s kind of the standard advice.

If she didn’t, I suppose it’s possible that they will open an investigation anyway now.

And I also assume that if Roger doesn’t at least consider a personal conduct policy investigation then Jerry Jones will lose his shit.
 
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