[LOCKED] 2019 AB Watch: Non-legal Views Only

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joe dokes

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Rosenhaus on TV saying they’ve been anticipating this and it’s a money-grab, which means one of two things:

1. Pats knew and are claiming they didn’t for PR, or:

2. Rosenhaus just burned a serious bridge and might well cost future clients millions because he withheld this information.
I dont think 1 or 2 necessarily follows. That he once had a (his view) bat-shit girlfriend does not mean he was expecting to be sued tomorrow.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Here's the Rosenhaus ESPN interview (around 4:10 mark):

View: https://youtu.be/nG8wiE1L2LA
Two takeaways: (1) He's clearly putting his personal reputation on Brown being cleared which is pretty strong. But, he's an agent, so what's that reputation anyway. (2) The refusal to get into what he told or didn't tell the Patriots is pretty telling. He's a lawyer and he understands contract-formation defenses. He understands at least potentially that his could very well be the $9 million question.
 

dcmissle

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Two takeaways: (1) He's clearly putting his personal reputation on Brown being cleared which is pretty strong. But, he's an agent, so what's that reputation anyway. (2) The refusal to get into what he told or didn't tell the Patriots is pretty telling. He's a lawyer and he understands contract-formation defenses. He understands at least potentially that his could very well be the $9 million question.
He is a superb agent. He is going to take hits for his clients. Would not surprise me if he is lying about his prior knowledge.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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But the NFLPA cares about the players.
Yeah, I think that's the real sticking point.

My guess is that the NFLPA will go to the mattresses in opposition to putting a player on the exempt list based solely on a civil lawsuit and without any kind of investigation. The Pittsburgh DA did not say that they are opening a formal investigation. There still is no criminal proceeding.
 

tims4wins

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I love (hate) when reporters ask BB "don't you think the fans deserve to know..." as if he is doing a disservice to us when he doesn't answer the question. Just so the media can get mad. Newsflash: we don't give a fuck about 99% of the questions they ask. We don't feel like we "deserve" to know. We all realize one of the major reasons for this dynasty is the laser fucking focus.

Edit: I also enjoyed the question asking BB whether AB would take more effort to get in line with the team than Moss did. BB's answer was "I don't know". The media member shot back with "you don't know?" I mean, how the fuck could BB know, he just met the dude on Monday. How's he supposed to know how it is going to go?
 

lexrageorge

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Zappala is the DA for Allegheny County in PA, in which Pittsburgh resides.

View: https://twitter.com/andysheehankdka/status/1171829228465266688?s=21
I don't believe this changes anything in the very near term. Given that the plaintiff is alleging a felony, it would be shocking if Zappala's office didn't at least examine the allegations and decide if further action is warranted. Granted, I'm not the junior attorney that just had to cancel their plans for the coming weekend.

It gets ugly if the DA does decide to pursue a criminal complaint. Then the exempt list would definitely come into play.
 
Apr 24, 2019
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I'm not sure this article has been posted yet, but this has the most detailed and best timeline of who the accuser is, her relationship with Brown and some of the events that took place that I've seen so far.


I'm really not in a position where I can cast judgement, but it seems like some really weird stuff on both sides.
This is an example of AB’s previous odd and offensive behavior coming back to haunt him. In reading that article, it does seem like it’s just an incredibly messy situation, wherein it’s super tricky to figure out the he said she said of it. But he’s been such an asshole and such a weirdo, to the point of my feeling sympathy for him because he comes across as potentially mentally ill, that acting out in the ways described in the story...they ring true. Or at least plausible. There’s obviously a ton swirling around all of this, and it may be unfair to judge him now, and this may be a total miscarriage of justice, but my overall feeling is that I HATE MY TEAM HAVING TO DEAL WITH THIS and I HATE THE ASSOCIATION WITH IT and...

JUST GET THE FUCK OFF MY TEAM, no matter what.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Can we just merge the 2 threads back into 1? Maybe if he gets suspended or put on exempt list then a break out.
Not yet, DD. And I moved the DA posts over to the legal thread.

Just to note, right after those posts we're discussing AB practicing & what kind of helmet he's wearing.

I'm separating the streams as long as I am awake (or really do feel like it's time to merge them back).
 

SeoulSoxFan

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If I had to venture a guess, there are three scenarios where AB gets cut:
  1. AB is found guilty and loses the civil suit (which may take months or more to resolve)
  2. AB adds fuel to the fire by fighting the battle via SNS despite BB's embargo
  3. Taylor starts to make the media rounds, appears credible & sympathetic, there's a public movement to boycott Kraft Inc.'s advertisers, and they start pulling ads and sponsorships
If AB does get released, 3 seems most likely.
 

lambeau

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Roger has a dilemma:
He doesn't want to get crosswise with #metoo, but the NFLPA represents wealthy party animals
ripe for extortion and I agree they will scream bloody murder if he uses Exempt List here. The list
would cost AB the season.
 

AB in DC

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If I had to venture a guess, there are three scenarios where AB gets cut:
  1. AB is found guilty and loses the civil suit (which may take months or more to resolve)
  2. AB adds fuel to the fire by fighting the battle via SNS despite BB's embargo
  3. Taylor starts to make the media rounds, appears credible & sympathetic, there's a public movement to boycott Kraft Inc.'s advertisers, and they start pulling ads and sponsorships
If AB does get released, 3 seems most likely.
More likely I'd think would be if significant new information gets uncovered that supports the accuser's statement. If evidence starts piling up against AB then I don't think Kraft waits for a boycott movement to materialize.
 

TFisNEXT

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More likely I'd think would be if significant new information gets uncovered that supports the accuser's statement. If evidence starts piling up against AB then I don't think Kraft waits for a boycott movement to materialize.
This seems the most plausible to me too...something else surfaces that looks worse for him on all of this.

I think the status quo is that he remains on the team regardless of what the accuser does. If the accuser starts the process of putting herself all over the TV networks on interviews, my guess is AB's agent and legal representation are going to be countering that with a narrative of their own to discredit her before the sentiment can swing too hard against AB as to make it untenable for the Patriots. But I find that route unlikely given that she has seemed reluctant to go the public route...perhaps out of fear that her story may seem weak and have a lot of holes in it for opposition to exploit.
 

TheoShmeo

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If I had to venture a guess, there are three scenarios where AB gets cut:
  1. AB is found guilty and loses the civil suit (which may take months or more to resolve)
  2. AB adds fuel to the fire by fighting the battle via SNS despite BB's embargo
  3. Taylor starts to make the media rounds, appears credible & sympathetic, there's a public movement to boycott Kraft Inc.'s advertisers, and they start pulling ads and sponsorships
If AB does get released, 3 seems most likely.
The civil suit will takes years to resolve (unless AB makes it go away faster with $).

I think the most likely quick end scenario is if the NFL finds Taylor credible and uses Roger’s broad power to put AB on the exempt list. Since they are not meeting with her until next week, that says to me that we will see Brown in the offense at least once.

That is, of course, unless BB determines that AB doesn’t have enough of a grasp on the offense to put him out there immediately, an outcome I thought was possible (albeit unlikely) even before this shitstorm. I would assume that BB will take the legal stuff and AB’s knowledge of the offense into account before he decides what to do.
 

Ed Hillel

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The PA DA reportedly “looking into” one of the accusations (Brown came in naked and started kissing and groping her) is a perfect out for the NFL, but they’ll probably muck it up. They should just remove themselves completely from investigating, say they are monitoring the DA’s case, and let it play out from there. I know there is still the more serious accusation in Florida, but we’ll be able to glean plenty from any criminal investigation.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think the most likely quick end scenario is if the NFL finds Taylor credible and uses Roger’s broad power to put AB on the exempt list. Since they are not meeting with her until next week, that says to me that we will see Brown in the offense at least once.
This seems plausible given its Goodell's NFL but I have to think the NFLPA would throw an absolute fit. Brown's representatives will obviously question how they could make a judgement so quickly and without talking to both parties or assessing other forms of evidence. And the NFLPA will still be extremely wary of setting the precedent that players can be placed on that list based only on a pending civil suit and without a real investigation by the NFL.
 

RedOctober3829

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The PA DA reportedly “looking into” one of the accusations (Brown came in naked and started kissing and groping her) is a perfect out for the NFL, but they’ll probably muck it up. They should just remove themselves completely from investigating, say they are monitoring the DA’s case, and let it play out from there. I know there is still the more serious accusation in Florida, but we’ll be able to glean plenty from any criminal investigation.
The PA district attorney said they are not looking into this case. It was a case of child endangerment.
 

Ed Hillel

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I dont think 1 or 2 necessarily follows. That he once had a (his view) bat-shit girlfriend does not mean he was expecting to be sued tomorrow.
Watching the clip, I take it as clear they (Brown and Rosenhaus) at least knew this was a strong possibility in the near-term. Hell, IncarceratedBob had it four days ago.
 

lexrageorge

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This seems plausible given its Goodell's NFL but I have to think the NFLPA would throw an absolute fit. Brown's representatives will obviously question how they could make a judgement so quickly and without talking to both parties or assessing other forms of evidence. And the NFLPA will still be extremely wary of setting the precedent that players can be placed on that list based only on a pending civil suit and without a real investigation by the NFL.
The right thing to do would be to talk to the accuser, since she's said she's willing to cooperate. If her claims seem credible, then they should meet with Brown and get his side of the story, and review his claims of extortion. If her claims appear credible, and his do not, then they would have cause to put AB on the exempt list while conducting a further investigation. The NFLPA would have to go along at that point.

Otherwise, if his specific extortion claims seem credible, they could simply conduct the investigation while Brown plays, or defer it to the offseason unless new information comes to light.

There are obviously two flaws with this line of reasoning: (a) it's unclear how much the NFL can investigate while there is ongoing civil trial, which will take years to resolve; and (b) it ignores the outside forces that drive the NFL and Roger's decision making when it comes to player discipline. And, we really don't know what the accuser means when she says she's willing to cooperate; she could very well lawyer up between now and Monday. So could Brown.
 

DrewDawg

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djbayko

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There's a few more now.

How do random folks have these videos?

EDIT: Apparently she's from Memphis, same as guy posting them. Not sure how exactly that explains it, but I guess *someone* was passing around these vids.
I can think of a few reasons why people would have these. Could be AB spreading them to help his case. Or it certainly wouldn’t be the first time someone bragged to their friends about being with a celeb.
 

DrewDawg

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Not random. Incarcerated Bob mentioned there were "tapes" by AB/mutual friends (allegedly) exposing the accuser.
I guess. This girl appears to have something of a rep in Memphis.

That obviously doesn't mean she's lying about what happened, but this is strange.
 

dcmissle

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As the day goes on, it appears that the Pats are not walking any plank and that NFL will have to act before the team. And that Zolak has it right in predicting he’ll be on the field Sunday.
 

soxin6

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The right thing to do would be to talk to the accuser, since she's said she's willing to cooperate. If her claims seem credible, then they should meet with Brown and get his side of the story, and review his claims of extortion. If her claims appear credible, and his do not, then they would have cause to put AB on the exempt list while conducting a further investigation. The NFLPA would have to go along at that point.

Otherwise, if his specific extortion claims seem credible, they could simply conduct the investigation while Brown plays, or defer it to the offseason unless new information comes to light.

There are obviously two flaws with this line of reasoning: (a) it's unclear how much the NFL can investigate while there is ongoing civil trial, which will take years to resolve; and (b) it ignores the outside forces that drive the NFL and Roger's decision making when it comes to player discipline. And, we really don't know what the accuser means when she says she's willing to cooperate; she could very well lawyer up between now and Monday. So could Brown.
The challenge is that Goodell isn't really qualified to determine who is credible in a case like this. He has the authority to make that choice, but he has shown that he is more likely to screw things up then judge things in a consistent matter.
 

InstaFace

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I can think of a few reasons why people would have these. Could be AB spreading them to help his case. Or it certainly wouldn’t be the first time someone bragged to their friends about being with a celeb.
Just fucked Edelman no lie?
 

Beale13

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If he's somehow innocent of all of this, this could be a situation where Brown's gigantic ego and incessant need to constantly record himself actually come in handy.
 

BornToRun

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If he's somehow innocent of all of this, this could be a situation where Brown's gigantic ego and incessant need to constantly record himself actually come in handy.
AB’s ridiculous antics ending up being the driving force behind exonerating him of a serious crime would be a fitting addition to this circus of a year he’s had.
 

pokey_reese

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In any case, while such videos certainly don't preclude the idea that a rape could have occurred, it at least supports AB's admission that they had a sexual relationship outside of the professional relationship she described. The whole fact that the investigation into the nature and details of that relationship has to play out this way as a public PR battle to convince a non-legal entity like the NFL is gross and sad, but I guess that's where we are at.
 

DrewDawg

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In any case, while such videos certainly don't preclude the idea that a rape could have occurred, it at least supports AB's admission that they had a sexual relationship outside of the professional relationship she described. The whole fact that the investigation into the nature and details of that relationship has to play out this way as a public PR battle to convince a non-legal entity like the NFL is gross and sad, but I guess that's where we are at.
Yes--while it doesn't negate her claims in specific instances, did she ever say they did not have that kind of relationship?

And the part that I cannot figure out--why drop this the week of her wedding?
 

The Social Chair

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Yes--while it doesn't negate her claims in specific instances, did she ever say they did not have that kind of relationship?

And the part that I cannot figure out--why drop this the week of her wedding?
She said it was strictly a brother-sister relationship.
 

DrewDawg

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OK, I'm really hesitant to post this Twitter link but this appears to be Brown and his accuser looking pretty comfortable in bed, etc....

View: https://twitter.com/heybucknasty/status/1171810875847716864

In her complaint she says the following: "Ms. Taylor never or had an interest in any romantic relationship with Brown. Their relationship, as far as Ms. Taylor believed and behaved, was that of a "brother-sister" type.

Well, I'm not 100% sure about that based on those videos.

View: https://twitter.com/heybucknasty/status/1171810938854531074
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This is an example of AB’s previous odd and offensive behavior coming back to haunt him. In reading that article, it does seem like it’s just an incredibly messy situation, wherein it’s super tricky to figure out the he said she said of it. But he’s been such an asshole and such a weirdo, to the point of my feeling sympathy for him because he comes across as potentially mentally ill, that acting out in the ways described in the story...they ring true. Or at least plausible. There’s obviously a ton swirling around all of this, and it may be unfair to judge him now, and this may be a total miscarriage of justice, but my overall feeling is that I HATE MY TEAM HAVING TO DEAL WITH THIS and I HATE THE ASSOCIATION WITH IT and...

JUST GET THE FUCK OFF MY TEAM, no matter what.
Jonathan Kraft has a SoSH account?
 

j44thor

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What am I missing in those 3-4 videos that purports they had a "relationship" each 3 second clip shows at worst them sitting together and in one her "OMG" dancing. If this is the best evidence he has of their "relationship" I'd say he is fucked. For the the most part the vids look squarely "friend zone" to me. Also we have no timestamp, these vids could have been taken months before any altercation took place no?
 

Mooch

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What am I missing in those 3-4 videos that purports they had a "relationship" each 3 second clip shows at worst them sitting together and in one her "OMG" dancing. If this is the best evidence he has of their "relationship" I'd say he is fucked. For the the most part the vids look squarely "friend zone" to me. Also we have no timestamp, these vids could have been taken months before any altercation took place no?
Friends sit on each other's laps, hanging out shirtless in bed together, etc? Okay.
 

djbayko

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Just fucked Edelman no lie?
That's the one that stands out most prominently in my mind. But I also have texts from many moons ago of girls I know talking about their exploits with Red Sox players and what not - hookups that didn't make the news. Of course, this was before Snapface and whatnot.
 

Marciano490

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In her complaint she says the following: "Ms. Taylor never or had an interest in any romantic relationship with Brown. Their relationship, as far as Ms. Taylor believed and behaved, was that of a "brother-sister" type.

Well, I'm not 100% sure about that based on those videos.

View: https://twitter.com/heybucknasty/status/1171810938854531074
I know some athletes or wealthy people who record everything that goes on in their bedrooms as a protective measure, but the fact AB is surreptitiously recording her in bed and apparently sharing it before the accusations came out doesn’t give me a ton of confidence he’s good at respecting boundaries and not, say, cumming on people as a joke or power move.
 

DrewDawg

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Friends sit on each other's laps, hanging out shirtless in bed together, etc? Okay.
Don't you mean "brother and sister"? She maintained that they had only a professional relationship. That's unlike any of my professional relationships.


I know some athletes or wealthy people who record everything that goes on in their bedrooms as a protective measure, but the fact AB is surreptitiously recording her in bed and apparently sharing it before the accusations came out doesn’t give me a ton of confidence he’s good at respecting boundaries and not, say, cumming on people as a joke or power move.
Noted, but not all of those recordings are surreptitious.
 
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