[LOCKED] 2019 AB Watch: Non-legal Views Only

Status
Not open for further replies.

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
36,770
I just wonder if they woke up Brady when they called AB to ask WTF is going on.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
26,982
AZ
Isn’t ejaculating on a woman without her knowledge or consent sexual assault?
It’s definitely a battery, which is really all you have to plead or prove I would think in a civil case since the damages are the same either way, whether or not it is a particular crime as well.
 

BunnzMcGinty

lurker
Jul 17, 2011
186
He peddled wild gang rape accusations against Justice Kavanaugh. He has since been criminally charged for unrelated frauds.
Oh I’m familiar with Michael Avenatti. I was just a bit confused on the “can of worms” vis a vis the league trying to conduct an investigation in the midst of a civil proceeding.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
36,770
Oh I’m familiar with Michael Avenatti. I was just a bit confused on the “can of worms” vis a vis the league trying to conduct an investigation in the midst of a civil proceeding.
The can of worms was kind of a tongue in cheek thing--getting another team's player suspended before the big game. And a chance to take a shot at Avenatti because fuck that guy.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,023
I mean come on, exempt list for a civil accusation wtf.
The team would be fucked hard. When you are on that list you cannot practice or play, you don’t count against the roster limit, but you are paid. Adrian Peterson.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
9,431
Waltham, MA
The team would be fucked hard. When you are on that list you cannot practice or play, you don’t count against the roster limit, but you are paid. Adrian Peterson.
Like I said, punishing for past behavior - AB's and the Pats :p I kid........I think (gulp).
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,023
Like I said, punishing for past behavior - AB's and the Pats :p I kid........I think (gulp).
Yup. And if they cut him, he files a grievance to get his money and maybe wins it.

There have been too many false accusations leveled against NFL players for the mere filing of a civil lawsuit to be the predicate for throwing a guy out of work.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
21,946
Here
So he’s going on the exempt list, but Pats will keep him until league makes a finding, I guess.
 

cornwalls@6

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
917
from the wilds of western ma
Question: if they release him, and are not able to get any relief from the guaranteed 9 million signing bonus, can they still spread that hit out over 2019 and 2020? Thinking of cash on hand this season for any other needs they might need to fill.
 

Jungleland

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2009
948
So he stays barring league or more serious legal decision, I guess. I don't want to trivialize an ultimately very serious situation by speaking only to the fan experience of football, so I feel guilty for going here, but uh...fuck that. I don't see a lot of enjoyment in rooting for the team with the 'our star wide receiver is probably a rapist' factor hanging over every play.

edit: if I'm misunderstanding and he's going on the exempt list then I can spare a little outrage for the time being. I read that as he'll be practicing tomorrow and suiting up Sunday.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
21,946
Here
The team would be fucked hard. When you are on that list you cannot practice or play, you don’t count against the roster limit, but you are paid. Adrian Peterson.
His base salary is jack squat, so not really much difference either way.

He’s likely to melt down away from the Pats structure and under stress now. Doubt he ever plays a snap for us.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,023
So he’s going on the exempt list, but Pats will keep him until league makes a finding, I guess.
What finding? And when? Pre-judging a he said/she said civil case? It’s not like they have video tape on this one.
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
2,330
"... as well as the response by Antonio's representatives."

He's not going anywhere IMO.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
9,431
Waltham, MA
How exactly are they going to investigate? Are they going to hold it against AB when his lawyers advise him not to talk? What if no one talks? Will the exempt list just drag on until the Super Bowl?
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
21,946
Here
What finding? And when? Pre-judging a he said/she said civil case? It’s not like they have video tape on this one.
Yeah, I mean I have no idea. Tyreek had a good amount of evidence and punched his pregnant wife in college and got nothing. Zeke seemed to have less evidence than Tyreek and got six games. Who the hell knows.
 

Rice14

lurker
Apr 23, 2008
50
South Florida
Obviously AB and his agent knew that this was out there, maybe they didn't have any idea it would be filed today, but they knew about it. If they really didn't give the Patriots any kind of heads up, doesn't that destroy the relationship right there?
 

Gash Prex

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 18, 2002
1,794
My god the idea that a civil complaint could ever hold any weight as a basis for any action like a suspension, exempt list or anything is just ludicrous. This is not like a grand jury indictment or arrest - just a lawyer drafting a complaint, mixing “good faith allegations” with persuasive language and salacious details for maximum impact.

The crazy shit I’ve seen in pleadings should never be taken as evidence.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
26,982
AZ
I think a fair amount will depend on AB’s counterclaim. If he files a narrative answer with texts that establish a credible extortion claim, then who knows?

The league is in a box if she says she won’t cooperate with a league investigation with the case pending. Which she likely will say. Are you going to put a player on the exempt list for three years while you have no hope of a real investigation?

They would have to find the texts alone are enough, or something.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,023
Obviously AB and his agent knew that this was out there, maybe they didn't have any idea it would be filed today, but they knew about it. If they really didn't give the Patriots any kind of heads up, doesn't that destroy the relationship right there?
No lawsuit while a member of the Steelers, or when traded to Oakland, or when signing a new contract with Oakland, or when putting the Raiders thru hell.

Lawsuit immediately when he signs with the Pats and is $15 million dollars less flush.

Does it really take a full 16 months to get your rape case together? Or can the psyche of the accuser turn on laundry?
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
2,330
Yeah, I mean I have no idea. Tyreek had a good amount of evidence and punched his pregnant wife in college and got nothing. Zeke seemed to have less evidence than Tyreek and got six games. Who the hell knows.
Well in Zeke's case the NFL investigated for a year before suspending him and he wasn't placed on the exempt list during the investigation. I'd have to imagine that's going to be the case here where there is similarly no criminal investigation.
 

Jungleland

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2009
948
No lawsuit while a member of the Steelers, or when traded to Oakland, or when signing a new contract with Oakland, or when putting the Raiders thru hell.

Lawsuit immediately when he signs with the Pats and is $15 million dollars less flush.

Does it really take a full 16 months to get your rape case together? Or can the psyche of the accuser turn on laundry?
dude
 

cornwalls@6

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
917
from the wilds of western ma
Interestingly ( to me, anyway) I’ve seen 2 women tonight take the cautious, not fair to take a persons livelihood away based on not yet proven accusations tact. One was a text exchange with my sister, a fairly intense Pats fan, but by no means an apologist for sexual assault, and a pretty strong feminist. The other was , I think Danielle Trotta is her name, on the NBC sports Boston talk show. Has me questioning my moral desire to see him immediately released, though I do still think from a football and overall business standpoint, they’d be better off cutting bait.
 

genoasalami

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2006
1,778
First thing in the morning, AB, his agent and his attorney will present their side of the story with the Pats. I'm sure that meeting and the evidence that can be supplied to support their claim of innocence will go a long way in determining whether he is still on the club by lunch time.
 

hunter05

Member
SoSH Member
May 29, 2006
6,950
Hokkaido
No lawsuit while a member of the Steelers, or when traded to Oakland, or when signing a new contract with Oakland, or when putting the Raiders thru hell.

Lawsuit immediately when he signs with the Pats and is $15 million dollars less flush.

Does it really take a full 16 months to get your rape case together? Or can the psyche of the accuser turn on laundry?
What the hell is this?
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
9,431
Waltham, MA
No lawsuit while a member of the Steelers, or when traded to Oakland, or when signing a new contract with Oakland, or when putting the Raiders thru hell.

Lawsuit immediately when he signs with the Pats and is $15 million dollars less flush.

Does it really take a full 16 months to get your rape case together? Or can the psyche of the accuser turn on laundry?
You lost me here. There's no way to know that the timing isn't pure coincidence - in fact, that's the most likely explanation by far. I'm upset that our little victory dance on the league has been squashed too, but come on.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,023
Interestingly ( to me, anyway) I’ve seen 2 women tonight take the cautious, not fair to take a persons livelihood away based on not yet proven accusations. One was a text exchange with my sister, a fairly intense Pats fan, but by no means an apologist for sexual assault, and a pretty strong feminist. The other was , I think Danielle Trotta is her name, on the NBC sports Boston talk show. Has me questioning my moral desire to see him immediately released, though I do still think from a football and overall business standpoint, they’d be better off cutting bait.
I mean we have two recent examples of players falsely accused in a criminal context. And we’re going to credit a civil lawsuit that can be filed in this context with no accountability, even if totally made up.
 

cornwalls@6

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
917
from the wilds of western ma
Let the league investigate. Let them REALLY investigate. If they find something cut his ass. If they don’t, then don’t.
The problem with that is they are limited in terms of the scope if the accuser tells them to take a walk, she’s not cooperating with them, which she should absolutely do. And also, given their past performances in this area, do we really believe they are remotely competent enough, or possess the good faith/integrity to effectively investigate this?
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
31,224
Hartford, CT
The problem with that is they are limited in terms of the scope if the accuser tells them to take a walk, she’s not cooperating with them, which she should absolutely do. And also, given their past performances in this area, do we really believe they are remotely competent enough, or possess the good faith/integrity to effectively investigate this?
Absolutely not.

The accuser has said she is willing to cooperate with the NFL; if she does follow through on that, the NFL will turn it’s gears of would-be justice.
 
Feb 6, 2018
1,411
Florida
First thing in the morning, AB, his agent and his attorney will present their side of the story with the Pats. I'm sure that meeting and the evidence that can be supplied to support their claim of innocence will go a long way in determining whether he is still on the club by lunch time.
If it doesn’t stick, you must acquit...
 

SeoulSoxFan

Dope
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
19,230
New thread posted just for legal, non-football related posts.

Roster implications, marketing, and other football-related posts can still be discussed here.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
37,125
I’m confused. The lawyer cites a text message then attaches two emails. The emails also seem to reference threats from the accuser to tell his team and to tell Brown’s baby momma. So, for whatever it’s worth - and I’m not saying it’s worth anything - she appears to have not gone to the police but gone or threatened to go to his team and the mother of his kid(s).
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,023
You lost me here. There's no way to know that the timing isn't pure coincidence - in fact, that's the most likely explanation by far. I'm upset that our little victory dance on the league has been squashed too, but come on.
I’ve been up and down this thread expressing reservations about this signing, pointing out risks that make it unlikely he’ll last very long. On balance, I would not have done it.

On this element, I smell a rat and basic fairness kicks in, if lawyerly fairness. Depriving a person of his livelihood based on a civil lawsuit is generally bullshit and especially so when NFL players are involved.

If his representatives offer our team a persuasive explanation, I hope the Pats will stand by him. Even though the media will pair Bawb the human trafficker with Antonio the rapist. And then I hope Brown and the team destroy this League on the field.
 

LogansDad

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
17,341
Alamogordo
I’ve been up and down this thread expressing reservations about this signing, pointing out risks that make it unlikely he’ll last very long. On balance, I would not have done it.

On this element, I smell a rat and basic fairness kicks in, if lawyerly fairness. Depriving a person of his livelihood based on a civil lawsuit is her ally bullshit and especially so when NFL players are involved.
I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point here, but your earlier post basically accused her of timing this because she is a Dolphins fan (or at least anti-Pats), and to me, that is beyond the pale at this point.

I don't know how I handle this if I'm the Pats. I truly believe in zero tolerance for sexual assault or domestic violence, but if he has viable proof that she is extorting him then the waters get a little murkier for me. This whole situation is messed up, and I don't envy BB trying to navigate the waters.

On a more selfish note, this makes me really sad because this was the first time in years that I was really excited for the season. I'm on record as being pretty much done with the NFL, and after Sunday Night I was ready for one last Tom Brady FU to the entire league, but this whole story really puts a damper on that. Regardless of how this story turns out, AB appears to be a really difficult person to root for.
 
Feb 6, 2018
1,411
Florida
Looking back at the Ben Roethlisberger rape allegations, the NFL could do something similar:
Roethlisberger denied the allegations and prosecutors declined to file charges. Roethlisberger was suspended by the NFL for six games . NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell told the quarterback the suspension was "the best step for your personal and professional welfare." The suspension was later cut to four games .
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
26,982
AZ
I mean we have two recent examples of players falsely accused in a criminal context. And we’re going to credit a civil lawsuit that can be filed in this context with no accountability, even if totally made up.
This is not some casual allegation. It is specific with dates. It claims she made contemporaneous reports. It identifies potentially corroborating witnesses on some points. It identifies texts that could be ambiguous but mention the ejaculation incident. There was at least some type of relationship here and even AB’s statement implies that there may have been sex. The accuser gives an explanation for why she waited at least for the first 8 months before coming forward to a co-worker.

Oh, and the guy in question is a difficult potential narcissist who has at least given the appearance of having judgment and impulse issues.

The complaint could be bullshit. But this doesn’t really seem to me like an “anyone can slap any allegation on a piece of paper and file it” kind of thing to me. (Edit — this is not your quote just me trying to make my point.) . It’s not an out of the blue whole-cloth deal. And if it’s a lie it is a fairly specific one.

He deserves his day in court. But if the question here is “was there a rape,” based on what limited information we have, we’re not exactly at the obvious “no way” end of the spectrum here.

It’s a valid debate to have about what level of suspicion we should need before suspending a player. But just talking here, I certainly believe this might have happened. I hope not. But being honest given the guy we are dealing with the complaint is specific enough that I am concerned and not much comforted by the timing of the filing.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
37,125
Looking back at the Ben Roethlisberger rape allegations, the NFL could do something similar:
Roethlisberger denied the allegations and prosecutors declined to file charges. Roethlisberger was suspended by the NFL for six games . NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell told the quarterback the suspension was "the best step for your personal and professional welfare." The suspension was later cut to four games .
Was that the first or second time he was accused of raping a woman?
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,023
I don't necessarily disagree with your overall point here, but your earlier post basically accused her of timing this because she is a Dolphins fan (or at least anti-Pats), and to me, that is beyond the pale at this point.

I don't know how I handle this if I'm the Pats. I truly believe in zero tolerance for sexual assault or domestic violence, but if he has viable proof that she is extorting him then the waters get a little murkier for me. This whole situation is messed up, and I don't envy BB trying to navigate the waters.

On a more selfish note, this makes me really sad because this was the first time in years that I was really excited for the season. I'm on record as being pretty much done with the NFL, and after Sunday Night I was ready for one last Tom Brady FU to the entire league, but this whole story really puts a damper on that. Regardless of how this story turns out, AB appears to be a really difficult person to root for.
Dolphins? No.

Anti-Pats. Maybe. That gets you to the top of the outrage machinery and the PR food chain. And that perhaps enhances your shot at a quick settlement — which are what the great bulk of civil cases are about.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
9,431
Waltham, MA
I didn't realize it until now. But that video of AB scrolling through a DM with a mysterious person who claims to have incriminating evidence on the accuser was actually leaked yesterday, and by Incarcerated Bob no less. Not surprisingly, is seems people didn't take this too seriously until the lawsuit was filed today.

 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
37,125
Second, I believe. The first involved a hotel employee, IIRC. The suspension was after the alleged bar bathroom assault, though the first accusation almost certainly played a role in the decision to suspend.
Yeah. That’s how I remember it, and also a bit of my point. On the other hand, we still are awful, but we - and accordingly the nfl - are slightly better about responding to rape charges than we were in 2010
 

Joe D Reid

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
3,217
Alameda, CA
While the rape accusation carries with it all of the proof challenges inherent in all rape matters, the ejaculation/sexual battery claim might not. The texts say what they say. Authenticating them should be possible. The conversation around whether it was consensual should be colorful, but I wonder whether skeptics would be more willing to take her version of that event given the relatively limited number of personal trainers who consent to having a client ejaculate on their clothed back.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
37,125
While the rape accusation carries with it all of the proof challenges inherent in all rape matters, the ejaculation/sexual battery claim might not. The texts say what they say. Authenticating them should be possible. The conversation around whether it was consensual should be colorful, but I wonder whether skeptics would be more willing to take her version of that event given the relatively limited number of personal trainers who consent to having a client ejaculate on their clothed back.
During a prayer service no less. I’ll point out though that he’s only admitted to ejaculating on her back, not that it went down at all how she described.
 

Joe D Reid

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
3,217
Alameda, CA
During a prayer service no less. I’ll point out though that he’s only admitted to ejaculating on her back, not that it went down at all how she described.
Agreed, although that’s a pretty specific point of overlap. It really creates a fun platform for a conversation.
 

azsoxpatsfan

Member
SoSH Member
May 23, 2014
490
Not shocking. Dude is friends with 45. We have a rapist in the white house so why would he care about what AB Haynesworth or anyone else did?

She's willing to cooperate from all accounts so...yeah I'm not sure how many guilty women do that. Once again its time to give all women the benefit of the doubt. He could possibly be innocent sure...but you have to assume guilt for now.
I mean this I just a horrible position to hold. “Have to assume guilt”? How the fuck do you believe that, assuming you’re being genuine. Like do you not realize how disastrous society adopting that position would be? I have no idea if the accusations are true. They should be taken and investigated extremely seriously. But to say he should be presumed guilty of rape is asinine
 
Status
Not open for further replies.