[LOCKED] 2019 AB Watch: Non-legal Views Only

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TheoShmeo

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I can believe it all got done after 4 PM (the "auction" doesn't seem complicated or have a lot of moving parts).

I can also believe that Rosenhaus talked to the Pats or someone close to the Pats but not on the team's payroll before then.

I had dinner with a baseball GM several years who told me the intuitively obvious point that tampering and breaking of such timing rules is commonplace but often done through intermediaries so as to create deniability and distance.
 

Ralphwiggum

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This has probably already been covered but someone just pointed out to me that Brown counts more towards the Steeler's 2019 salary cap than the Pats.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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So cap numbers of $6M in 2019 (assuming he collects the full roster bonus) and $4.5M in 2020, with the (pretty unlikely) possibility of up to an additional $4.5M being added to the 2020 number based on NLTBE adjustments.

Great deal.
 

InstaFace

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Interesting take on the teammate angle from a fringe player (and Pat SB ring-owner I never heard of).
Wow, that's a spectacular article. I know some don't care much for Deadspin, but it's just an extended interview with a guy who has some balls-on insight about the personalities and dynamics involved here (with Brown and the Raiders - not so much the Patriots and going forward). I actually learned something from it, and his analysis of AB's situation (which he only knows about secondhand) really rings true for me.
 

InstaFace

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So cap numbers of $6M in 2019 (assuming he collects the full roster bonus) and $4.5M in 2020, with the (pretty unlikely) possibility of up to an additional $4.5M being added to the 2020 number based on NLTBE adjustments.

Great deal.
Fantastic deal. I was worried the incentives were LTBE (because Miguel seemingly was as well), which would certainly be hard to come up with the cap space for. And if he does somehow hit them*, you'd gladly scramble a bit to create some space and take that tradeoff. For AB and Rosenhaus's purposes, being able to say it's "a $15M deal, with $10M guaranteed" for this year is probably all they wanted.

Eliminates what remained of our cap flexibility for 2019, but I mean, what else could you possibly use it on that would make as much of a difference.

* It's also kinda hilarious that they made the incentive targets literally de-minimis above what was necessary to count as NLTBE. Antonio Brown's 2018 stats: 104 catches, 1297 yards, 15 TDs. Incentive targets: exactly 1 yard, 1 catch and 1 TD above those. That said, in the 5 years prior to 2018, he exceeded those numbers in 4, 4, and 0 seasons, respectively.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Fantastic deal. I was worried the incentives were LTBE (because Miguel seemingly was as well), which would certainly be hard to come up with the cap space for. And if he does somehow hit them*, you'd gladly scramble a bit to create some space and take that tradeoff. For AB and Rosenhaus's purposes, being able to say it's "a $15M deal, with $10M guaranteed" for this year is probably all they wanted.

Eliminates what remained of our cap flexibility for 2019, but I mean, what else could you possibly use it on that would make as much of a difference.

* It's also kinda hilarious that they made the incentive targets literally de-minimis above what was necessary to count as NLTBE. Antonio Brown's 2018 stats: 104 catches, 1297 yards, 15 TDs. Incentive targets: exactly 1 yard, 1 catch and 1 TD above those. That said, in the 5 years prior to 2018, he exceeded those numbers in 4, 4, and 0 seasons, respectively.
Hopefully that helps you see why this can happen very quickly---both the agent and the team know the rules precisely and know what is, and is not, viable given the Pats cap situation. They likely had to go back and forth a bit over the total guaranteed dollars and such, and other teams may have made 1-2 year offers too, but it all can move very quickly among sophisticated parties especially if the player has a preference.
 

uncannymanny

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How has he already assessed which teams are involved? 31 calls not required? How could it possibly take only 18 minutes for 3 separate GMs to fully present the details, along with the qualitative stuff of how interested they are in Brown, how they'll use them in the offense, and have Rosenhaus pick over the details with them? How could he have conducted some bidding to get teams A/B's best offer, and then gone to Belichick and substantiated them? Not one team needed to "go back and look at the numbers and see what they could do"? No need to go back to Brown and say "here's Belichick's best offer, I really believe we're not getting a dime more out of him than this"? No need for Brown to have a call to understand the qualitative / relationship / usage plan stuff at all? And then, upon agreement of the headline terms, Rosenhaus needed no more than 15 minutes to go over the in-depth terms and make sure there were no surprises contrary to his interests, no gotchas or secondary priorities that he needed to insist about?

About the only way I can envision that this actually went without him totally fudging the timeframe prior to 5pm is that Belichick called first, shared his best offer, emphasized that it wasn't (couldn't) going to get any better than that, and that Brown got stars in his eyes and was unimpressed by any other callers (regardless of what they offered), to the point where they had a verbal on terms without there being any bidding war to speak of. And that it was a free agency only to the extent that Rodney Harrison's was - as soon as he heard Belichick open his mouth, there was no swaying him and the words didn't matter. I could believe that, it's clearly happened many times before. But if it truly was a competitive bidding process, there's no way it started from square one at 4:01pm ET Saturday.
you’re starting from plenty of assumptions, chief among them that they need to contact or hear from anywhere near all the teams.

I mean we literally hear almost every trade deadline about trades that started in the final minutes and are completed. I’m incredulous at the incredulity.
 

lexrageorge

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How has he already assessed which teams are involved? 31 calls not required? How could it possibly take only 18 minutes for 3 separate GMs to fully present the details, along with the qualitative stuff of how interested they are in Brown, how they'll use them in the offense, and have Rosenhaus pick over the details with them? How could he have conducted some bidding to get teams A/B's best offer, and then gone to Belichick and substantiated them? Not one team needed to "go back and look at the numbers and see what they could do"? No need to go back to Brown and say "here's Belichick's best offer, I really believe we're not getting a dime more out of him than this"? No need for Brown to have a call to understand the qualitative / relationship / usage plan stuff at all? And then, upon agreement of the headline terms, Rosenhaus needed no more than 15 minutes to go over the in-depth terms and make sure there were no surprises contrary to his interests, no gotchas or secondary priorities that he needed to insist about?

About the only way I can envision that this actually went without him totally fudging the timeframe prior to 5pm is that Belichick called first, shared his best offer, emphasized that it wasn't (couldn't) going to get any better than that, and that Brown got stars in his eyes and was unimpressed by any other callers (regardless of what they offered), to the point where they had a verbal on terms without there being any bidding war to speak of. And that it was a free agency only to the extent that Rodney Harrison's was - as soon as he heard Belichick open his mouth, there was no swaying him and the words didn't matter. I could believe that, it's clearly happened many times before. But if it truly was a competitive bidding process, there's no way it started from square one at 4:01pm ET Saturday.
I think you're over complicating things a bit.

Aside from the timeframe, which we agree is likely longer than 1 hour based on the recent info in this thread, there's no implication anywhere that Rosenhaus needed to talk to 30 teams (not 31, as calling the Steelers would be waste of everyone's time). Once he got interest from 2 teams (NWE and one other), he has a competitive bidding process (which is all that Rosenhaus really claims). Now, the Pats may have been the #1 choice all along, with Team X there just to keep the negotiations honest. But that's not really something Rosenhaus is under any obligation to disclose.

Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if Rosenhaus got a call on Friday from a college coach he knows saying something like "I just had a chat one of my colleagues who is very good friends with Josh McDaniels' 2nd cousin, and he said the Pats would be thrilled to talk to Brown if by some unexpected chance he became available".
 

Leather

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How has he already assessed which teams are involved? 31 calls not required? How could it possibly take only 18 minutes for 3 separate GMs to fully present the details, along with the qualitative stuff of how interested they are in Brown, how they'll use them in the offense, and have Rosenhaus pick over the details with them? How could he have conducted some bidding to get teams A/B's best offer, and then gone to Belichick and substantiated them? Not one team needed to "go back and look at the numbers and see what they could do"? No need to go back to Brown and say "here's Belichick's best offer, I really believe we're not getting a dime more out of him than this"? No need for Brown to have a call to understand the qualitative / relationship / usage plan stuff at all? And then, upon agreement of the headline terms, Rosenhaus needed no more than 15 minutes to go over the in-depth terms and make sure there were no surprises contrary to his interests, no gotchas or secondary priorities that he needed to insist about?

About the only way I can envision that this actually went without him totally fudging the timeframe prior to 5pm is that Belichick called first, shared his best offer, emphasized that it wasn't (couldn't) going to get any better than that, and that Brown got stars in his eyes and was unimpressed by any other callers (regardless of what they offered), to the point where they had a verbal on terms without there being any bidding war to speak of. And that it was a free agency only to the extent that Rodney Harrison's was - as soon as he heard Belichick open his mouth, there was no swaying him and the words didn't matter. I could believe that, it's clearly happened many times before. But if it truly was a competitive bidding process, there's no way it started from square one at 4:01pm ET Saturday.
Have you ever seen "Moneyball"? Or hell, even "Jerry Maguire"? They have multiple phones, assistants, and have already narrowed down which teams they should seriously pay attention to due to 1) Brown's stated preferences; and 2) analysis of the WR situation on teams that Brown would like to go to; and 3) analysis of the cap situation of the teams Brown would like to go to.

It's not like every team has to walk in and make a PPT presentation, which DR then has to summarize for Brown.
 

nattysez

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Fantastic deal. I was worried the incentives were LTBE (because Miguel seemingly was as well), which would certainly be hard to come up with the cap space for. And if he does somehow hit them*, you'd gladly scramble a bit to create some space and take that tradeoff. For AB and Rosenhaus's purposes, being able to say it's "a $15M deal, with $10M guaranteed" for this year is probably all they wanted.

Eliminates what remained of our cap flexibility for 2019, but I mean, what else could you possibly use it on that would make as much of a difference.
Given the rate at which the o-line is getting injured and the fact that Brady is 42, it might've been nice to keep some space to bring in additional o-line help if needed.
 

ehaz

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Dom Cosentino and Deadspin had a fascinating interview with Jimmy Farris (who was close to TO during his SF days) about the AB situation. I have to say, even though I have blinders with AB being a Patriot, it's hard to disagree with his point that Mayock handled this horribly my making mountains out of a mole-hill.


And, look, people have different opinions about that. Was that even a legitimate thing for him to be taking it to the level that he was? Who knows, but that’s just him, okay? That’s Antonio Brown, and that’s what you’re dealing with. And you know that when you trade for him and you sign him to the big deal. So they publicly supported him. He was missing practices, and he was missing team activities doing that stuff. And you’ve got Gruden and everybody saying, “Hey, man, we support him,” and Gruden’s saying, “Hey, I like the fact that the guy’s standing up for something that he believes in, and when he’s out here, he’s great, and he brings the level of everybody around him up, and he practices his ass off”—all this stuff. So you get past all that.
You got the guy in the building, he’s working his ass off, he’s getting ready for Week 1, and then they turn around and fine him for missing some activities that were weeks ago, that when he was missing those activities you said you supported him. So that’s why I said it was petty because you’re telling him while he’s missing those activities, you’re saying, “Hey, man, we get it, just get this thing resolved and get your ass in here as soon as possible and let’s go to work.” So, he thinks, “Hey, they’ve got my back, they’re supporting me.” And then it’s fucking [five] days before the first game, you do this?

That was my thing. All the drama and the issues and all that kind of stuff—you’d gotten past it. It happened in training camp. It was over. He’s in the building now, he’s here, like, let’s go full-steam ahead. And then, for whatever reason, some procedural reason or some reason—I really don’t know, Mayock felt like they needed to fine him. To set an example or what? I don’t know.
 

bakahump

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Looking forward to AB being sighted in Mark Kelsos old Foam covered Helmet with a Patriot Logo.
"AB How was practice? Any Equipment issues"
"Nope, Fine Fine, all sorted out. Saw the ball really well. Tom Throws a great ball. Just happy to be here. Just learning the offense."
 

Erik Hanson's Hook

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I know Chris Carter is generally seen as a Patriots hater, buy I found his take and reverence for Belichick fascinating

fast forward to 5:00


edit: before that, he talks about how AB was Philip Dorsett's idol growing up in South Florida and how AB knows guys in the Patriots locker room
 

DJnVa

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Dom Cosentino and Deadspin had a fascinating interview with Jimmy Farris (who was close to TO during his SF days) about the AB situation. I have to say, even though I have blinders with AB being a Patriot, it's hard to disagree with his point that Mayock handled this horribly my making mountains out of a mole-hill.

This is a good article, but it was posted a few hours ago. This thread is moving pretty quickly.
 

DourDoerr

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Interesting take on the teammate angle from a fringe player (and Pat SB ring-owner I never heard of).
I'll second Instaface - thanks for sharing this. Farris' insight couldn't be more dead on. Seems like the Pats' scheme flexibility on the field is matched by the coaches' flexibility off the field. Another piece to the puzzle of why the Patriots are the Patriots.
 

Devizier

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This is a good article, but it was posted a few hours ago. This thread is moving pretty quickly.
Regarding that article, though:

I read all these comments on Twitter and social media: “Oh, nobody’s bigger than the team, and he’s being selfish, he needs to look out for the team.” Fuck that. The team doesn’t look out for you. When the team is ready to move on, or they think you make too much money, or you’re not giving them what they need, they cut you or trade you like that. They’re not loyal to you. They don’t honor the contract that they signed when it when it’s no longer beneficial to them.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I wonder if Tony Dungy is disappointed in Pete Carroll too? Or he's only disappointed in the guy who actually signed him, not the other guys who wished they had signed him.
 

bsj

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Rosenhaus said today there was another team heavily involved and that in the hour before he officially agreed with New England it was a 50/50 with that other team.

FWIW Esiason heard through sources 3 total teams including the Jets reached out but that AB wanted nothing to do with the Jets
 

tims4wins

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Rosenhaus said today there was another team heavily involved and that in the hour before he officially agreed with New England it was a 50/50 with that other team.

FWIW Esiason heard through sources 3 total teams including the Jets reached out but that AB wanted nothing to do with the Jets
So he's more sane than Le'Veon Bell.
 

bsj

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I wonder if Tony Dungy is disappointed in Pete Carroll too? Or he's only disappointed in the guy who actually signed him, not the other guys who wished they had signed him.
Did Dungey express disappointment in Reid for extending hill? Or the browns for signing hunt? Or is he being a religious man cool with spousal and child abuse but draws the line at being a dick and using the word cracker?
 

E5 Yaz

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Did Dungey express disappointment in Reid for extending hill? Or the browns for signing hunt? Or is he being a religious man cool with spousal and child abuse but draws the line at being a dick and using the word cracker?
Dungy is a self-righteous type who beams in the spotlight of media types showering him with accolades. And he knows that those shining that light would never dare bring up the treatment of his son, despite the cash Dungy rakes in as a motivational speaker telling others how to raise their families, so he feels freew be as self-righteous as he wants to be
 

54thMA

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They must have been tampering too.
No, only the Patriots tampered, they have had this in the works since he was traded to Oakland "AB,. just be as disruptive as you can and once the Raiders release you, we promise we'll sign you"...…...

Just ask Mazz, he's convinced this was a total bag job from jump.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Jerry Rice says he got "played":


Brown had a Raiders poster on that release/freed video. I fully believe he wanted to be a Raider UNTIL he got to the camp & saw the situation he was in. If you agree with me, knock on wood.
 

dcmissle

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54thMA

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The strip club set up at the Dolphins tailgating on Sunday was a better story.

What a classy bunch.
 

DanoooME

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Pete Carroll has commented today that Seattle was in on AB.

ProFootballTalk: Pete Carroll admits Seahawks were "involved" in Antonio Brown pursuit
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/09/09/pete-carroll-admits-seahawks-were-involved-in-antonio-brown-pursuit/
Makes sense they would have been in. Need WR help; AB was one of Russell Wilson's offseason training buddies. They've really never used voidable years in a contract, so they'd have had less cap space to try and fit him in unless that was the one time to do it. There weren't any big opportunities on the roster to open up cap space either.
 

dcmissle

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bankshot1

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Big surprise that the two teams led by the two most respected coaches in the NFL, both saw an opportunity and pursued AB.

#Mazzisanidiot # Patscheat #Ring7isontheway
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Have you ever seen "Moneyball"? Or hell, even "Jerry Maguire"? They have multiple phones, assistants, and have already narrowed down which teams they should seriously pay attention to due to 1) Brown's stated preferences; and 2) analysis of the WR situation on teams that Brown would like to go to; and 3) analysis of the cap situation of the teams Brown would like to go to.

It's not like every team has to walk in and make a PPT presentation, which DR then has to summarize for Brown.
This. Just because DR is the name on the banner and the public mouthpiece doesn’t mean he does all the legwork for these clients. It’s not how these firms are built, structured or marketed. It’s not is if a Boras or DR or even a Condon is working a phone bank. And also, as someone noted, he can talk to his client about a short list. So you have maybe a half dozen teams that are legit landing spots, your assistants make initial inquiries at 4:01 to get best offers and you eliminate if need be down to a couple to play off each other.
 

brandonchristensen

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Jerry Rice says he got "played":


Brown had a Raiders poster on that release/freed video. I fully believe he wanted to be a Raider UNTIL he got to the camp & saw the situation he was in. If you agree with me, knock on wood.
Yikes. Rice really has trouble letting things go.
 
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