Liverpool FC 2013-14: Pride Restored

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coremiller

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JayMags71 said:
What do we think this means for all these Suarez-to-Real rumors that are ongoing?
 
Are there actually specific rumors of this, or is it more of a thing where Real tend to try to buy the best player in the EPL every year and this year it's Suarez, so he's a natural target?
 

soxfan121

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JayMags71 said:
What do we think this means for all these Suarez-to-Real rumors that are ongoing?
 
Either he goes to Madrid and Liverpool gets Dr. Evil-like money or he doesn't and they don't. 
 
What we can do is root for Madrid to buy Suarez, then sign Evra and Ivanovic and then tune in for the wacky reality series that ensues when they all move in with Gareth Bale and his "houseguest" Tim Sherwood.
 

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teddykgb said:
Too many eulogies being written today.  Yesterday's result gave City a little room, but it didn't fundamentally change much.  City still need to win 2, for the most part.  Yes, they can now slip a draw, but this City team hasn't always answered the bell either and if City can beat Villa (which we failed at earlier this season, amazingly) then that last match will be full of pressure.  Not intended to be a pep talk, but I don't really think the reaction to the draw is a bit over the top, similar to how City were written off after the draw versus Sunderland.
The weekly propensity to write team off, or anoint others champions based on the latest result has been silly all year. We started declaring teams in the drivers' seat ten weeks out because the math showed they would clinch with 30 points. City will probably win their next two handily, but one rash tackle in the 20th minute changes everything. An 85 point team drops 39 points during the year -- more than one per game on average. Teams fighting relegation manage points in upwards of 40 percent of their games.

Not to mention that almost as soon as a team is anointed, they spit the bit. Look at La Liga last weekend. Barca couldn't win. With the door wide open, Atletico got pounded even playing part of the game against ten men. Madrid couldn't take advantage, getting outplayed at home. The snark commentary is to say "nobody wants the title." The reality is that winning football games is hard, and the other team wants to win very badly too.
 

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The defensive lapses that Liverpool have had this year have been nearly as breath taking in the opposite light as their blitzkreig starts and scoring barrages.
 
cjdmadcow has it right - if you would have told me that Liverpool would be fighting until the very last match for the title, I would have executed commitment papers on you - fighting for European play of either type (Champions or Europa) seemed like a much more reasonable goal.  To be in this spot now is beyond belief, and perhaps that euphoria is why the last 2 matches have been so frustrating and painful.  I will admit, that I knew in my heart of hearts taht once the second goal was on the board yesterday that the draw was imminent, and honestly feared for all 3 points being dropped.  I think Rodgers has played the hand he has been dealt in a wizardly fashion, riding the attack minded team to the best possible results.  They seemed much more incisive and composed against a deep lying 6-8 defending line yesterday and had chances before Allen's opener.  Once SAS put theirs away, it was a fore gone conclusion that they were out for a huge number and played that way.  I'll admit, I was cheering for that, hoping for a 5 or 6 goal tally.  They play wonderful attacking football and hope to outscore you, break your will to play with their offensive brilliance, and use that as cover for a suspect defense.  That will need to be addressed in the summer as Champions League play looms or it is going to be a short spell there - more balance is needed.
 

mgoblue2

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So Liverpool are on a shoestring budget.

Here's Rodgers' signings since he took over (I think):

In pounds:
Alberto 6.8m
Aspas 7.2m
Mignolet 9m
Sakho 18m
Ilori 7m
Toure - free
Teixeira - free
Borini 10.5m
Allen 15m
Assaidi 2.4m
Yesil 1m
Sturridge 12m
Coutinho 8.5m

In total that is 97.4 million pounds. Sturridge, Coutinho, Mignolet aside that is a lot of wasted money. Allen should be a squad player. Sakho should be a squad player. Borini should be a squad player when he comes back. The rest, not sure those players are gonna be the ones challenging for the title even if they're for the future.

Once Suarez and Gerrard are gone I think you guys will be found out.
 

Nick Kaufman

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mgoblue2 said:
So Liverpool are on a shoestring budget.

Here's Rodgers' signings since he took over (I think):

In pounds:
Alberto 6.8m
Aspas 7.2m
Mignolet 9m
Sakho 18m
Ilori 7m
Toure - free
Teixeira - free
Borini 10.5m
Allen 15m
Assaidi 2.4m
Yesil 1m
Sturridge 12m
Coutinho 8.5m

In total that is 97.4 million pounds. Sturridge, Coutinho, Mignolet aside that is a lot of wasted money. Allen should be a squad player. Sakho should be a squad player. Borini should be a squad player when he comes back. The rest, not sure those players are gonna be the ones challenging for the title even if they're for the future.

Once Suarez and Gerrard are gone I think you guys will be found out.
 

Actually I think that's a very efficient spending of money. The less money you spend per player, the less likely he individually is going to pan out. The more you spend on one, the more sure thing he has to be. If you compare the money let's say Liverpool and Chelsea spent on player transfers and wages and the actual output these players provided, I think you ll find out that Liverpool got far more bang for her buck than Chelsea or for that matter City, United and Arsenal did.
 

cjdmadcow

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mgoblue2 said:
So Liverpool are on a shoestring budget.

Here's Rodgers' signings since he took over (I think):

In pounds:
Alberto 6.8m
Aspas 7.2m
Mignolet 9m
Sakho 18m
Ilori 7m
Toure - free
Teixeira - free
Borini 10.5m
Allen 15m
Assaidi 2.4m
Yesil 1m
Sturridge 12m
Coutinho 8.5m

In total that is 97.4 million pounds. Sturridge, Coutinho, Mignolet aside that is a lot of wasted money. Allen should be a squad player. Sakho should be a squad player. Borini should be a squad player when he comes back. The rest, not sure those players are gonna be the ones challenging for the title even if they're for the future.

Once Suarez and Gerrard are gone I think you guys will be found out.
 
Who said anything about a shoestring budget? With 45k home crowds, a massive international following and one of the most successful commercial organisations in UK sport we generate plenty of money thank you. But what would an Evertonian know about that?
 
A lot of wasted money? You can take out half of that amount because they are regular 1st team players, and Borini will generate a decent return if we sell him, so £40-50M spent over 2 years is nothing these days and certainly not in comparison with the money being spent elsewhere. It's a bit ironic for an Evertonian to be preaching about the money spent on players...at least our owners back their managers.
 
Take Toure & Aguero out of City for a season and what do you have left? Take Hazard & Terry out of Chelsea and you have the same thing. That's a nonsense argument as any team that loses top players will by extension be weaker if you don't replace them with equal or better players. Money will be spent this summer, the trick is to spend it in the right areas.
 
And people wonder where the name 'The Bitters' came from!
 

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Take a look at the ages of the players in that list not named Iago Aspas.  Declaring them busts at this age is premature.  
 
We're all liable to do it, though--see last year's Liverpool thread for plenty of comments about Jordan Henderson.
 

Nick Kaufman

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Speaking of Henderson, I wonder how much his 3 match ban hurt us. Liverpool took up pressing high up the pitch in order to cover their deficiencies in the back and Henderson was instrumental in that. But I do have to say that if felt that the juju had turned when he got his red card in the 90th minute.
 

DLew On Roids

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I think it was huge.  Lucas was up for it, but he lost a lot of the limited pace he had with those knee injuries.  He really only belongs on the pitch at this level as the DM.
 
It might be worth talking about whether Rodgers's unwillingness to move Gerrard to the right side of the diamond if he thought Lucas was the best replacement for Henderson cost Liverpool over those three games.  Gerrard doesn't have Henderson's legs anymore either, but there's no way he'd have been as slow as Lucas.  
 

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Lucas also veered off to the opponent's box as a RCM is supposed to do I guess, but he wasn't as good as Henderson.
 

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Moving forward, Lucas's role post-injury really needs to be to give Gerrard a rest in Cup and easier EPL matches next season. He was passable in Henderson's role yesterday, but it seemed he (like Johnson) tired rapidly as the game progressed. It's a shame as he was one of the best DMs I've seen at his peak, but I don't think he should be counted on for a whole lot at this point.
 
Another little quibble I have with Rodgers is playing Lucas and Gerrard on the pitch at the same time with Lucas sprinting forward to provide a passing option for Suarez/Sturridge/Sterling. Why not have Lucas drop back into the Gerrard role and give the attack another element of creativity, as well as the Palace defense someone else to worry about as a shooting option?
 

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PedroSpecialK said:
Another little quibble I have with Rodgers is playing Lucas and Gerrard on the pitch at the same time with Lucas sprinting forward to provide a passing option for Suarez/Sturridge/Sterling. Why not have Lucas drop back into the Gerrard role and give the attack another element of creativity, as well as the Palace defense someone else to worry about as a shooting option?
 
I've been wondering that, myself. I still haven't figured out what the point was of moving Lucas into an attacking mid role (where he's clearly deficient), all the while leaving Gerrard as the defensive mid. I expected that switch to happen the moment Henderson got his red card but it never came.
 

mgoblue2

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cjdmadcow said:
 
Who said anything about a shoestring budget? With 45k home crowds, a massive international following and one of the most successful commercial organisations in UK sport we generate plenty of money thank you. But what would an Evertonian know about that?
 
A lot of wasted money? You can take out half of that amount because they are regular 1st team players, and Borini will generate a decent return if we sell him, so £40-50M spent over 2 years is nothing these days and certainly not in comparison with the money being spent elsewhere. It's a bit ironic for an Evertonian to be preaching about the money spent on players...at least our owners back their managers.
 
Take Toure & Aguero out of City for a season and what do you have left? Take Hazard & Terry out of Chelsea and you have the same thing. That's a nonsense argument as any team that loses top players will by extension be weaker if you don't replace them with equal or better players. Money will be spent this summer, the trick is to spend it in the right areas.
 
And people wonder where the name 'The Bitters' came from!
 
Low blow. Being an Evertonian I should know, right?
 
In all seriousness it's just everywhere I look I see a Liverpool fan championing how they've won the league this season on peanuts and a few marbles. Calling the younger players busts was A) Something I didn't say and B) Perhaps premature. Apparently Teixiera or whoever could turn out to be good.
 
The two best players argument is off base but out of that group outside of Terry, who's the closest to leaving their club? Real could come calling, Gerrard could retire after next year. It's a bit of a fantasy for me sure but not implausible.
 
I sincerely apologize if I came off as bitter, I will humbly return to my whipping boy position where I am to remain for the rest of eternity.
 

 
Ed- I missed a word.
 

SoxFanInCali

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He tweeted this after the narrow loss to Liverpool.

We were unlucky not to get something today against this seasons champions
— Andy Carroll (@AndyTCarroll) April 6, 2014


MAKE IT HAPPEN, ANDY!
 

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Hmmm Mark Lawrenson intimated on Football Focus yesterday that it looks like Suarez to Madrid will happen. Basically the usual business, if player wants to move and Club (Madrid wants him) it'll happen. I don't think Suarez is to Liverpool what Bale was to Spurs. If he goes he goes, they'll get a lot of money for him. As mentioned this has been a season of over achievement for Liverpool The future looks bright. Rogers seems to be able to do that rare thing in football...(it shouldn't be rare) he can improve players. Dlew was spot on, Henderson got a lot of stick last year especially from me. I recall saying of the lad "what is he supposed to do?" Well now we know and he does it very well. If he can be some kind of Incey type going forward, box to box, cover every blade of grass, provide cover for the defense, help out in attack, pick a pass, then you've got a player. Sterling might not be close to his peak.  Sturridge is maturing into a fine man and player. Got no problem with the goalie an all. So you've got the makings of a spine there, and a couple more years of Gerrard. 
 
Anyway, the thing i like about Rogers the most is he covets intelligent players. Clever players are worth there weight in gold. I think the first time i heard such a mantra was from an old Juve manager many years ago, talking about the merits of intelligent footballers...the only type of player he wanted to work with. Pirlo, is probably the cleverest footballer in the world at the moment and he spends his off days in a wheelchair and has a free bus pass. Clever players improve more and have a longer shelf life...so I am optimistic about the future at Liverpool. Rogers is still learning as a manager, but he's an erudite man.  All in all this season, so much more to be happy than sad about. 
 

soxfan121

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fletcherpost said:
Hmmm Mark Lawrenson intimated on Football Focus yesterday that it looks like Suarez to Madrid will happen. Basically the usual business, if player wants to move and Club (Madrid wants him) it'll happen. I don't think Suarez is to Liverpool what Bale was to Spurs. If he goes he goes, they'll get a lot of money for him. As mentioned this has been a season of over achievement for Liverpool The future looks bright. Rogers seems to be able to do that rare thing in football...(it shouldn't be rare) he can improve players. Dlew was spot on, Henderson got a lot of stick last year especially from me. I recall saying of the lad "what is he supposed to do?" Well now we know and he does it very well. If he can be some kind of Incey type going forward, box to box, cover every blade of grass, provide cover for the defense, help out in attack, pick a pass, then you've got a player. Sterling might not be close to his peak.  Sturridge is maturing into a fine man and player. Got no problem with the goalie an all. So you've got the makings of a spine there, and a couple more years of Gerrard. 
 
Anyway, the thing i like about Rogers the most is he covets intelligent players. Clever players are worth there weight in gold. I think the first time i heard such a mantra was from an old Juve manager many years ago, talking about the merits of intelligent footballers...the only type of player he wanted to work with. Pirlo, is probably the cleverest footballer in the world at the moment and he spends his off days in a wheelchair and has a free bus pass. Clever players improve more and have a longer shelf life...so I am optimistic about the future at Liverpool. Rogers is still learning as a manager, but he's an erudite man.  All in all this season, so much more to be happy than sad about. 
 
I love this entire post but special recognition to this line which conjures such a vivid image. Bravo.
 

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What a season.
 
Yeah, it's disappointing to come up short of the title, but anyone who thinks taking 37 of the final 42 points and going from 7th to 2nd is a choke is full of crap.
 
The squad will need to be strengthened and expanded to deal with the demands of the Champions League.  There will be all sorts of rumors of players coming and going for the next few months.  Can they take the final step next season?  I can't wait to find out.
 

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I just got out of church so I missed the second half. I won't lie and say I'm not disappointed that it slipped through their fingers but they surpassed expectations by about 100 miles.

It was a very fun season and like DLew, I'm more disappointed that we'll have to wait a while before they play meaningful games again. Let the silly season begin.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Congrats on a great season. I think the real challenge starts now, as Liverpool won't have 10+ less games than their contending rivals. Getting boatloads of money for Suarez will help if it's spent properly to add depth and some defense and should be enough to overcome his loss.
 

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I never believed that Liverpool could win it all, but I began to hope we could steal it after the win against City and now I am very bummed out that the team lost a golden chance that may take years before it comes again.  This year represents a monumental improvement over the last one, but I am afraid that the team benefited from as much positive variance as it hurt from negative variance the year it hit 22 posts or something. While the holes to be filled are obvious - defense and depth- it's not a given that those choices will be nailed. Moreover, the added weight of Europe next year perhaps will add some pressure on the injury front. And if Suarez leaves, it will be a great wound. You can get a boatload of money for him, but it's tough to replace the 3-4th best player in the world right now. And if he stays, can he and Sturridge repeat this year's performance?

I am rambling a bit, but the gist is this. So many things turned for the best this year. There's a chance there's going to be a regression to the mean and more than our fair share of setbacks.
 
Anywho. The year is over. A hell of a year. Here's wishing and hoping for an even better one next year.
 

JayMags71

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Dummy Hoy said:
Getting boatloads of money for Suarez will help if it's spent properly to add depth and some defense and should be enough to overcome his loss.
Unless Suarez indicates he's going to everything he can to get out of Liverpool, they really should hang on to him. Liverpool is a historic club, and their ambitions should be PL and Champions League titles. Suarez should be a part of that.
 

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My favorite season of following the Premier League in the near decade I've been doing so. And it was partly because of the amazing season Liverpool put forth and the resulting banter I got to exchange with my 14-year-old (the kid is even more hooked than I am). To reiterate what Mike said, going 12-1-1 down the stretch and coming up short speaks to how nutty and competitive the league is.
 
Can't wait for the match at the Toilet in July ... When like none of the players who made significant impacts for either Liverpool or City will be starting.  :globalsox:
 

ehaz

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Transfer talk may be a bit premature, but there have been a flurry of reports indicating that Rodgers wants Adam Lallana and he's keen on the move himself.  He was great this season, but is he good enough of an addition?  I think that LFC should set their heights a bit higher with increased revenue and prestige from the CL as a selling point.  If you're already spending 20+ on someone like Lallana why not reach back a bit more for a better talent like Greizmann?
 

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Lallana is great(and should start for England this WC), adding a homegrown central midfielder of his calibre seems ideal. I wouldn't mind Chelsea moving Oscar to the pivot and making a run at him.
 

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We were out at the local Irish Pub last night, my wife and I.  I was wearing my Suarez Home jersey when a tourist from New Zeland pats me on the shoulder and says "too bad you've had the curse for 25 years".  I quickly replied, how wonderful the season was and what a legitimately fun team they were to watch going forward this year and how excited I am to plan my trip to Anfield to see a Champion's League match in the fall, and that if you told me beofre the start of the season that Liverpool would have had a chance to win it all on the last day of the season how I would have laughed you off.  He shoots back "I wasn't talking about your team mate, I was talking about your wife - she says you'll be celebrating your 25th this year."  So, um, yeah, my priorities are set straight!  It's going to be a long 3 months.....
 

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That's pretty funny man. Kinda reminds of that bit in fever pitch (the original version) where the main guy is talking to the girl and instead of
seeing time in terms of years he sees it in terms of seasons, football seasons.

Anyways...Lallana for liverpool. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27371960

Good to see Liverpool getting in there sharpish, no muckin about. I wonder who their defensive targets are?
 

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Nice piece of animation, that. Strange how it's possible to recognise all the goals and the games they were scored in, even though there's no context or identification of opponent. The music is 'Losing Touch' by Empathy Test, by the way.
 
So that was season 2013/14 then? Hope, followed by fun, followed by more fun followed by slight disappointment but completed with pride.
 
I share a few of the concerns of Nick, there's plenty of hard work to be done by the transfer committee this summer and it won't be easy but I'm so much more optimistic. The foundations are being laid, stability has been restored and the future looks bright. The future is red.
 

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Snakebauer007 said:
Lallana is great(and should start for England this WC), adding a homegrown central midfielder of his calibre seems ideal. I wouldn't mind Chelsea moving Oscar to the pivot and making a run at him.
Agree completely--apart from the part about wanting Chelsea making a run at him.

Lallana is young, improved throughout the season, and made the Premier League XI for the year. Any player in the top XI in one of the big five leagues would likely make a solid addition to a club looking to move up to CL standards. Given how Liverpool like to play, Lallana seems like a great match. If he's only £20M, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 

PedroSpecialK

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So strange to see former Oilers coach Ralph Krueger as a member of the Saints' brass.
 
Lallana would help solve a lot of problems. He'd allow for Rodgers's preferred attacking style without being overrun in midfield, as Liverpool have been prone to of late.  There were way too many counters surrendered to Palace/Newcastle resulting from guys like Coutinho/Sterling not tracking back and midfield being exposed. Granted that isn't really their game - nonetheless, playing Lallana at the tip of the diamond would mitigate a lot of those quick counters.
 
Here's to hoping 1) it gets done 2) it's for <£30m 
 

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First of all, as someone who doesn't know much about football, and has only followed Liverpool since Henry et al bought the team, this thread is great. It's very helpful learning about the Premier league, the European competitions, and specifically Liverpool through this prism. And it's been a great year to follow this squad.
 
Anyway, I had a few questions that I was wondering about...
 
1. Is there any real difference between finishing the league in 2nd versus 3rd?
 
2. With a 2nd place finish, Liverpool is in the Champions League. Are they also in Europe League and some of the other tournaments as well?
 
3. Most specifically, if Suarez is sold to Real Madrid or elsewhere, what do people think the transfer fee would be? Certainly north of 50M GBP, right? 75M? 100M? More? (And who was the last player of roughly Suarez's magnitude to transfer?)
 
4. Lastly, who are some of the other expected departures for this club? Any contracts expiring or other likely players to be transferred for one reason or another?
 

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There is virtually no difference between finishing second or third.

Liverpool are in the Champions League so they aren't in Europa League. The only way they would go into Europa is if they finish third in their group in the Champions League.

I believe if Suarez went he would fetch anywhere between 60-75M. That would make him, I believe, the third highest transfer ever and given his age and skillet that seems about right.
 

brienc

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Gareth Bale sold for £85 million. Suarez should be worth somewhere close to that, but I really don't understand why they would sell him after making the Champions League.
 

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5050HindSight said:
First of all, as someone who doesn't know much about football, and has only followed Liverpool since Henry et al bought the team, this thread is great. It's very helpful learning about the Premier league, the European competitions, and specifically Liverpool through this prism. And it's been a great year to follow this squad.
 
Anyway, I had a few questions that I was wondering about...
 
1. Is there any real difference between finishing the league in 2nd versus 3rd?
 
2. With a 2nd place finish, Liverpool is in the Champions League. Are they also in Europe League and some of the other tournaments as well?
 
3. Most specifically, if Suarez is sold to Real Madrid or elsewhere, what do people think the transfer fee would be? Certainly north of 50M GBP, right? 75M? 100M? More? (And who was the last player of roughly Suarez's magnitude to transfer?)
 
4. Lastly, who are some of the other expected departures for this club? Any contracts expiring or other likely players to be transferred for one reason or another?
 
You've made a good choice, 5050.
 
No difference between 2nd & 3rd, apart from the obvious bragging rights. The big difference is between 3rd & 4th, where 4th has to play an additional qualifying round for the group stage which means an earlier start to their competitive season, which can have a knock-on effect later down the line.
 
Zomp is probably close to the estimate for any Suarez sale, it will all be a question as to desire. If he wants to stay, it doesn't matter what Real Madrid want but if they are given any suggestion he might be interested then it's very difficult to keep a player. He seems happy and there's no reason he would leave but Real Madrid have a habit of spending big money every summer on the star player of the moment. We'll have to wait and see. 
 
By the way, and this is something you'll soon learn, player contracts aren't worth the paper they're written on, unlike US sports!
 
They're is a definite need to improve the defence, whether that involves players leaving - possibly Agger, maybe even Skrtel - remains to be seen but I'd rather see a stronger squad thru addition of players rather than just a like-for-like replacement. The management team have a definite idea on the type of player personality they want, it's a question of competing will all the other clubs in identifying the right ones and getting them to sign...not easy. For example, ManUtd will probably need to replace their entire back line this summer, so we'll be competing for the same players.
 

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SoxFanInCali

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The funniest part is Man City in the relegation spots. Other than Milner, did an English player score for them this year?

On a somewhat related note, watching all of Liverpool's English talent being coached by Uncle Woy should be, um, interesting.
 

Julius.R

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There actually is a difference between finishing in 2nd and 3rd place:
 
https://twitter.com/PurelyFootball/status/465775731029868544/photo/1
 
Interesting to see that we made the most money overall.
 
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